![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
- Status
I don't think we are gonna end up with another X-fi model, not at all. Why build another gamer card that is Creative's niche. Instead I think what your gonna get is a highend HTPC soundcard that supports the EAX and OpenAL standards. Take the best fetures from both cards and cross them. Creative knows Auzen won't be buiding $50 bargain basement X-fi cards. They will be creating high end HTPC cards that will support EAX and OpenAL -totally different market shares. Very different client base. They are giving rights to Auzen becasue they know the company will NOT be direct competition in the gaming market instead it is bringing their chips to a totally different market. Another guy said it very well "better to have a piece of the pie then none". I don't think HDMI is acceptable for anything at this stage outside of a expansion board in the future. I don't think this card will be a X-fi and 02-HD hybrid. That is not economical or a good design in my opinion. It is possible they will be introducing another chipset to add to the card, I don't think it will be the 8788 chip. I am really very excited to see how this card turns out. Hopefully we will get the specs soon.
Anything at this point is just speculation by anybody... Should be one very nice piece of kit, Auzen makes very,very nice cards.
Anything at this point is just speculation by anybody... Should be one very nice piece of kit, Auzen makes very,very nice cards.Such as?
By "fundamental", I obviously wasn't talking about extended feature sets. All of the features available in EAX 5.0 are extensions of a framework already present in EAX 2.0 and 3.0. The framework, the foundation, of EAX has not changed at a fundamental level since EAX 3.0.
Multichannel as far as direction is concerned is nothing without Environmental Effects and etc... Without Elevation, Occlusion, Obstruction, Distance, Transitions, Local Player Sounds and multiples (8) of these at any one given time, you don't have true 3D. Even a complete 360 degrees is not true 3D. Add to these effects low enough latency to make them seem in real-time and bang
There is NO fundamental Frame work in EAX 3 for the *main or dominant features of EAX 5 like X-Ram, Pure Path, Game Voice or etc....... in EAX 3. There's quite a jump from EAX 3 to 4. I meant that just as developers are slower to even catch onto X-Ram, EAX 6 would take even longer to catch on. Hell, Vista might even screw that up as well. Yet, maybe I'm wrong as hell and don't get it
What I'm not wrong about, is that Auzentech seems to know who makes the best Gaming Chip even as *some of their F@n$ think otherwise.
I suppose it depends upon how you define 3D, in this context anyway. The virtualization effects - occlusion, elevation, obstruction - allow the player to be able to better define a source's position in the virtual 3D world, but because these events will eventually mix down to a "flat" multichannel system, they become approximations of 3D.
I think I may have understood what you meant, however. You're quite right that you lose these virtualization effects without EAX.
EDIT: Oh, and what EAX charts were you talking about earlier? Do you have a link to those?
I think I may have understood what you meant, however. You're quite right that you lose these virtualization effects without EAX.
EDIT: Oh, and what EAX charts were you talking about earlier? Do you have a link to those?
I'll find them again, they were a history of EAX type chart.
Cliff Couser
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2003
- Messages
- 1,860
not all bad.
If they get a solid and less bloated set of drivers going. I think this will be good for the gaming crowd.
the X-Fi chip is a damned good one that just hasn't seen its true potential because of some mishaps with early nVidia chipsets and some lingering issues with ots software suite.
when it works....it works great though.
If they get a solid and less bloated set of drivers going. I think this will be good for the gaming crowd.
the X-Fi chip is a damned good one that just hasn't seen its true potential because of some mishaps with early nVidia chipsets and some lingering issues with ots software suite.
when it works....it works great though.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
Multichannel as far as direction is concerned is nothing without Environmental Effects and etc... Without Elevation, Occlusion, Obstruction, Distance, Transitions, Local Player Sounds and multiples (8) of these at any one given time, you don't have true 3D. Even a complete 360 degrees is not true 3D. Add to these effects low enough latency to make them seem in real-time and bang
There is NO fundamental Frame work in EAX 3 for the *main or dominant features of EAX 5 like X-Ram, Pure Path, Game Voice or etc....... in EAX 3. There's quite a jump from EAX 3 to 4. I meant that just as developers are slower to even catch onto X-Ram, EAX 6 would take even longer to catch on. Hell, Vista might even screw that up as well. Yet, maybe I'm wrong as hell and don't get it
What I'm not wrong about, is that Auzentech seems to know who makes the best Gaming Chip even as *some of their F@n$ think otherwise.
Those effects if used correctly will improve the sound but if they are used excessively like in FEAR, some people will say that they don't like the sound because it is unrealistic. Btw you don't need EAX to have those effects if game developers wrote their game accordingly. My PS3 doesn't have any version of EAX but playing Resistance with uncompressed digital surround sound is really a great experience and guess what, all those effects are only done by the CPU
Those effects if used correctly will improve the sound but if they are used excessively like in FEAR, some people will say that they don't like the sound because it is unrealistic. Btw you don't need EAX to have those effects if game developers wrote their game accordingly. My PS3 doesn't have any version of EAX but playing Resistance with uncompressed digital surround sound is really a great experience and guess what, all those effects are only done by the CPU
Can't disagree with you on any of that. But please note, the other sweet thing about EAX 5.0 is that the EAX Effects can be adjusted. Believe it or not, I use to complain about its all or nothing approach. Emailed Creative tech support about it. One of their techs told me thousands of folks had the same complaint. Then IMHO, Creative took care of it. Even the Audio Console app has the slider so there's no real need for the whole game mode to be installed. MacroFX and etc.. is adjustable as well.
Yes, I hope there's no SCP problems as well?
Rumor! Creative's next Breakout Box I/O Console has HDMI.
http://www.auzentech.com/site/index.php
Would you like to see support for X-Fi® technologies in future Auzentech soundcards?
Who wants to bet that 12% are the squeaky wheels?
Would you like to see support for X-Fi® technologies in future Auzentech soundcards?
Who wants to bet that 12% are the squeaky wheels?
Huh? I think you are 180 out on this one. It would appear, by Auzentech announcing an X-FI based soundcard, that they listened to the 79%.
Inside joke!
The squeaky wheel refers to the 12% of Auzentech F@n$/Voters and their constant flaming of anyone having anything nice to say about Creative in General and X-Fi in particular LOL! A popular way to use any of the CMedia cards was to use it in conjunction with a X-Fi. As I said earlier, if Auzentech can pull this off, it's a Win-Win for them and consumers. It's GREAT that Auzentech listened to their Customers. I believe Auzentech also listened to the X-Fi! Then no matter what the 12% said, went with what was best for them and the 79%.
So if Creative doesn't upgrade their ADC's, DACs, use better Caps and better Opamps, then truly the Auzen X-FI™ Prelude 7.1 becomes the Hands down best Sound Card on the market=P
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
You haven't heard EAX 5.0 on a better DAC and OPAMPs? Too bad because I don't need to wait for this new card to use the features
Sorry this is bit offtopic but im looking for Dolby live/dts soundcard that has bass management (bass forward to subfoofer) and can do it while dolby live enabled. My realtek AW9D-MAX cant do it and cant record sound while dolby live enabled (fraps). Does anyone have Auzentech or creative card to confirm if this works on those cards?
Nforce2 soundstorm had no broblems with bass management while dolby live was enabled. If anyone could help me?
Nforce2 soundstorm had no broblems with bass management while dolby live was enabled. If anyone could help me?
Yeah, I don't really care how much this card costs at this point... I'm just going to get one. It basically has everything I want in a sound card built in. Honestly, something as simple as the integrated front-panel connector without all the Creative BS finally pushed me over the edge. The end of May can't come soon enough.
You haven't heard EAX 5.0 on a better DAC and OPAMPs? Too bad because I don't need to wait for this new card to use the features
Want to BET? One of my Imaginary friends as ROB called them has been following your advice. He is the reason I'm so frackin' excited
The funny part is, he hasn't upgraded the Opamps and IMHO, it still has better output. But I've told you that before as well. The one with updated Opamps don't game much so I can't compare what I heardIt should work on this card because Part of EAX/OpenAL games support is a Dedicated LFE for the Sub. It is also amazing what some of the Games do with the Sub via EAX 4 and 5. Man how things change, SBLive suffered with anything but computer multimedia speakers and Sub. X-FI rocks with any Sub on almost any system.
@Silleeni, There are cards available now that can do what your asking, the X-Meridian or other 8788 based cards have this digital support. If your a gamer though you may want to wait and check out this new card from them. Although this card will be based on the 20KX DSP chip I doubt very highly it will be anything similar to a existing X-fi. Some say there should be a new model from Creative Labs aswell. Read some reviews and ask questions and decide from there. I would wait for and see how the situation turns out.
I would wait for and see how the situation turns out.Now, there's something I think we can all agree on.
That is, unless, Creative intends to roll out X-Fi 2 within the next two months or so, which isn't an unreasonable prediction. We've already seen some indications of this being feasible. Even then, though, the Auzentech card might hold the crown for quite a while depending upon what Creative has up its sleeve. If it sports HDMI, it's probably a Prelude killer.
My thinking though is that Creative is unwilling to allow a better product on the market than their own. Ergo, the X-Fi 2. Auzentech will be getting the scraps, so to speak.
You could be right Phide, But I think Auzentech is aiming at the same type of market they aimed the X-Meridian at. HTPC or "Audiophiles" that want top quality sound above all else. Really, if a person already owns a X-fi why would they want this? -Because it will provide alot better sound quality then the normal low end X-fi are capable of? -No becasue if they wanted that they would own a E-Pro instead of a low end model. This card will not be direct competition for the X-fi. It is also possible Creative is bringing out a new gaming flagship model. Leaving the HTPC market to Auzentech. You have to give it to them though they rocketed to prominence very quickly. -Funny how some said they wouldn't last and now they are considered one of the top soundcard manufacturers in the world. We know Creative Labs thinks so The market is changing very fast and how ever you look at it aslong as it bring new and better cards it's good for everybody.
The market is changing very fast and how ever you look at it aslong as it bring new and better cards it's good for everybody.You got that right i agree on the first but on the second part I disagree. Vista was a warning shot over the Bow for Creative. They know they have to do something better and more than just Games. Games and Gamers are small-time. Creative knows it has to step beyond games and move to the broader or larger more lucrative HTPC or Home Multimedia Server. All card makers have to do something that can't be done with onboard sound IMHO.
The easiest way for Creative to grow is to become a seller of Chips first and cards second. I think they got their sights set on Realtec more than CMedia
I still think X-FI 2 isn't far away, I don't believe in the whole ________ killer stuff. X2 was a P4 Killer but it didn't kill Intel just as C2D was a X2 Killer that didn't kill off AMD. Look at the fights that were started in the forum when I only suggested XMeridian was good card but not the best for games even after acknowledging it was great for HTPC duties? Folks love to hate Creative and even the Perfect sound card wouldn't change that just as the Perfect Intel processor means nothing to Duby229 and Serge84
Ahriman4891
Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2005
- Messages
- 534
Donnie27 said:
I fixed it for you *pats his EMU 0404 USB, thinks about Lynx L22 or EMU 1616M for the future*
But seriously, this is really exciting news. Hopefully they'll have a PCI-E version.
It is indeed. Of course, as far as AIBs are concerned, we're still down to Creative and C-Media, and both companies are taking very different approaches to their products. I think the Prelude represents the first time we've really had multiple companies producing products with very similar (and competitive) features. Even if it's still a Creative chip, it's a fairly big step.
Could be. In either case, it seems to indicate that the industry is changing, which is something that really hasn't happened in any major way since NVIDIA's SoundStorm, which was certainly not any sort of Creative killer. I think that, at that time, Creative was trying to shift some focus away from PC audio (to MP3 players, for instance), and I think the eventual products in that niche have suffered a bit from it. X-Fi's great, but I think there's so much more we should expect from an innovator like CL. With respect to what Creative used to produce, and the real innovation there (which eventually buried Aureal's attempts at the market), the X-Fi isn't particularly exciting.The easiest way for Creative to grow is to become a seller of Chips first and cards second. I think they got their sights set on Realtec more than CMedia
True, but if the X-Fi 2 is superior in many respects to the Prelude, it'll take likely take a much higher spot on consumer wish lists. Auzentech is doing a great job of establishing their brand, and the Prelude is a very big step for them, but I still believe they need to keep themselves on their toes. Auzentech just isn't a household name yet, and won't be for a fairly long time. If Auzentech just releases an X-Fi clone, with somewhat better specs, and with the obligatory DDL, it may not hold its ground well against X-Fi 2.
All things considered, Creative could do practically anything with the X-Fi 2. It could be the second coming, or it could be a very bland product. It does seem, though, that they are trying to reinforce the X-Fi brand as a whole, with other somewhat unrelated products, so I'd think they're taking the X-Fi 2, and its competition, quite seriously.
I fixed it for you *pats his EMU 0404 USB, thinks about Lynx L22 or EMU 1616M for the future*
But seriously, this is really exciting news. Hopefully they'll have a PCI-E version.
OK fair and thanks. I was just talking about the 1212 and 1818 to someone else for a different use. Point well taken.
All I can say is WOW! Great post! For X-Fi-2, IMHO we're looking at at least 7 cards in as many market price ranges. I think there will be features and hardware that will separate most of these products and some cross-over would be almost impossible.
Yes, just the Geek in me can't wait.
Ahriman4891
Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2005
- Messages
- 534
Honestly, I think Creative has way too many cards and price segments as is. I'd rather see them moving all current models down the price ladder (and maybe phasing out Elite Pro) and have X-Fi 2 as an uber $300 or so soundcard. EAX 5.5/6, special Vista accommodations, etc.
I meant there will be not just Creative Cards but others they sell the chip to.
Ahriman4891
Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2005
- Messages
- 534
DUH! Sorry I misunderstood you.
this is a good move, as it will help to preserve creative who are the only audio chip maker currently actively support the hardware accelerated audio model.
i am a true believer in the amiga philosophy over that of the 1980's IBM PC: dedicated hardware to perform specific tasks.
now that vista has thrown such a big spanner in the works of accelerated 3D hardware, where does this leave Creative and the X-Fi chip? OpenaAL.......... Do creative intend to provide hardware acceleration of OpenAL on their X-Fi chips?
i am a true believer in the amiga philosophy over that of the 1980's IBM PC: dedicated hardware to perform specific tasks.
now that vista has thrown such a big spanner in the works of accelerated 3D hardware, where does this leave Creative and the X-Fi chip? OpenaAL.......... Do creative intend to provide hardware acceleration of OpenAL on their X-Fi chips?
YES! Besides the POS X-FI Xtreme Audio, OpenAL has been HW almost as long as it been around. I say again, "The only folks who don't want EAX or OpenAL or a Combination of BOTH are those who never heard it or pissed off that they don't have it." Clearly if that wasn't the case, Auzentech wouldn't have made this move.
Because without HWA OpenAL, there's very little need for Creative's consumer cards. Even while some here tried to downplay it, OpenAL is good tech. I always maintained that OpenAL is a matter of Hardware and NOT software. I'd also said Creative would license it. By Hardware I meant all anyone has to do is look at X-Fi Xtreme Audio and see that that sucks. You get a delay (latency) not present on the HW versions and also, CPU usage from 5 to 32% hehehe!
Auzentech knows it needs HW OpenAL even if some other folks can't figure out why
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
I disagree with that statement, like I said before EAX doesn't always make a game sound good and it is also not a requirement for a game to sound good. A game can sound better without EAX than with EAX if the developer wrote their game accordingly.
Btw based on the X-Tension board spec, I think that Prelude has a lot of similiarity with X-Meridian:
Nice to know they are still using the modular approach. This way when you need more features you buy a module NOT another soundcard. I think what we are gonna end up with is a high end HTPC card built around the 20KX DSP chip, with gaming features -not the other way around.
The X-Tension board should be here in a week or two. -Got a slot all ready for it.
The X-Tension board should be here in a week or two. -Got a slot all ready for it.
Like I always said, OpenAL is the Key, not EAX. Yes, OpenAL has more features and not just opinions. The games with OpenAL sound better to *most folks and now that more than likely includes Auzentech since I don't think they'd use it if didn't. If Auzentech tested EAX + OpenAL and agreed with the Nay-Sayers I'm sure they'd not use an X-Fi Chip. It would be silly if they did under those Circumstances. Not a requirement for good sounds, true but is a requirement for great game sounds. That's why Battlefield 2 sounds better than Oblivion LOL! Again most games support Creative Cards and it's hard to find games not on the lists. The EAX list and the OpenAL cover a est. 95% of the games on the market.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
I like the sound in Resistance more than in BF2142 and I don't think that OpenAL is the cause. How many of the games support EAX5 and how many of them support EAX higher than EAX 2.0?
- Status