Auzentech X-Fi Prelude

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alg7_munif said:
I like the sound in Resistance more than in BF2142 and I don't think that OpenAL is the cause. How many of the games support EAX5 and how many of them support EAX higher than EAX 2.0?
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Most support EAX 3 and then 4. EAX 3 is old news IMHO, EAX 2.0 is ancient. There are very few EAX5.0 games like BF2142, Prey and etc... That was the point I tried to make about EAX 6 or whatever taking awhile to get support. I've not heard Resistance but one of the Games I'm looking at getting.

http://soundblaster.com/eax/gaming/gamelist.asp
 
The point is OpenAL will provide a standard way to communicate to audio hardware, just like OpenGL/DirectX. Then we'll have consistent good 3D audio in (almost) all games, as opposed to a few gems here and there. Sure, some games will overdo something :rolleyes: but as long as we are given flexible driver settings, that's not such a huge problem. I am not familiar with OpenAL at all, but if it's like OpenGL, then e.g. Cmedia will be able to implement their own non-EAX hardware algorithms and still run OpenAL-based games fine (maybe some extensions will be required, like the NV- and ATI-specific extensions in OpenGL now).
 
I tried to make the point that OpenAL was an open standard and was promptly flamed for saying so. Now if MS and nVidia could buy into it, anyone could.

Game effects can be added and taken away and all that's need to do so is a Slider on the Audio Console control app or the Game Mode Console.

I am not familiar with OpenAL at all, but if it's like OpenGL, then e.g. Cmedia will be able to implement their own non-EAX hardware algorithms and still run OpenAL-based games fine (maybe some extensions will be required, like the NV- and ATI-specific extensions in OpenGL now).
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IMHO, it is just that! I don't see anyone changing anything OpenAL wise. I'm no software engineer so I'm not sure either though.

I still say all Auzentech needs to really do is modify a Current X-FI and it would become a BIG HIT with Crap load of folks, myself included.
 
i think the argument whether EAX sounds marginally better or worse than OpenAL is redundant.

what matters is the question; is there a 3D audio standard that will work within Vista, and does it have the ability to be hardware accelerated by anybody?

the first part deals with whether EAX and OpenAL can continue to work within Vista.
EAX does not (AFAIK) because it is tied into DirectSound (?) which has been dumped in Vista.
OpenAL does work in Vista (AFAIK) for reasons that i do not yet understand.

the second deals with whether Vista will allow hardware acceleration of EAX and OpenAL, and whether either of them is able to be hardware accelerated by anybody.
EAX is going to be hacked into Vista by Creative, but its a solution for past games, not the future.
OpenAL is an open standard, so is available to anyone, but i don't know whether Vista will allow hardware acceleration of it..........?
 
EAX is an environment effects layer that can sit on top of both OpenAL and DirectSound (meaning it's not tied to one specific audio API). In addition, the only reason DirectSound can no longer be hardware accelerated in Vista is due to Microsoft removing the HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) for it.

Microsoft has nothing to do with OpenAL (in fact it's mostly maintained by Creative, and I don't forsee Creative removing hardware acceleration from OpenAL anytime soon ;) ). OpenAL works under Vista because it has nothing to do with Vista's new audio stack (it's completely separate from Windows, or any operating system for that matter). Therefore OpenAL works on Vista exactly like it does on XP because it's not tied to a single operating system (much like EAX is not tied to a single audio API). Check out this forum post if you want more info about the subject.
 
thanks for the info.

then it seems like OpenAL is the future of hardware accelerated audio on Vista, and that companies like C-media should get in on the act as soon as possible.
 
Donnie27 said:
Like I always said, OpenAL is the Key, not EAX. Yes, OpenAL has more features and not just opinions. The games with OpenAL sound better to *most folks and now that more than likely includes Auzentech since I don't think they'd use it if didn't.
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That hasn't been quantified as far as I'm aware. Maybe that's true from a statistical perspective, though.

Donnie27 said:
The EAX list and the OpenAL cover a est. 95% of the games on the market.
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95% of larger-budget, AA and AAA titles, possibly (I'd say around 85%). But you also have many titles that use DirectSound only and do not support EAX, so that's certainly something to factor in.
 
Alchemy better work with this new card, since games are still being made for hardware DirectSound and will need to be transmuted to OpenAL in Vista (C&C3 for example).
 
phide said:
That hasn't been quantified as far as I'm aware. Maybe that's true from a statistical perspective, though.


95% of larger-budget, AA and AAA titles, possibly (I'd say around 85%). But you also have many titles that use DirectSound only and do not support EAX, so that's certainly something to factor in.
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I agree with the 85 to 90% and I said 95% for a reason. There's a catch, EAX can be very easily added to any Native Direct Sound Game. UT#1 is a prime example of that. In fact, its one of the games I use to showoff my sound system:) A map Called "Pressure". This also proves the other cards can't really pull of doing full EAX 2.0 because that's what it's patched to. I heard dropped or missing sounds and effects on the other cards.
 
Will I be able to adjust the LFE on this card?

I am only interested for a few reasons

1) I'm an old SoundStorm convert to the Auzen X-Plosion. It's a great card, but damn no LFE adjustment = hard to adjust bass.

2) During the DDL encoding process, if I play something that's natively DD encoded, will it pass it through instead of making DDL = 2.0 sound into 5.1 space? SoundStorm would pass through, but the X-Plosion doesn't seem to -- even when I adjust it to 2.0 PCM hoping it'll pass a DD signal through
 
Donnie27 said:
Want to BET? One of my Imaginary friends as ROB called them has been following your advice. He is the reason I'm so frackin' excited:) The funny part is, he hasn't upgraded the Opamps and IMHO, it still has better output. But I've told you that before as well. The one with updated Opamps don't game much so I can't compare what I heard:(
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I'm just curious, before this you said that X-Meridian is just slightly better than X-Fi for music but now you seem to be so excited, is it because you can get a slightly better sound for games as well?
 
alg7_munif said:
I'm just curious, before this you said that X-Meridian is just slightly better than X-Fi for music but now you seem to be so excited, is it because you can get a slightly better sound for games as well?
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Yes, games! But remember, I did pick the XMeridian for Music, I picked the XMeridian for Movies and generally for HTPC. I just didn't pick it for Games including CMSS 3D over Dolby Headphone.

It's that all or nothing XMeridian follower mentality that got me flamed. I haven't changed sides so to speak. I still maintain that EAX + OpenAL is the way to go for games. The only difference here now is that Auzentech agrees with me, not ROB, Admiralflameberg, Audioguy, and others at Guru3D.
 
Donnie27 said:
The only difference here now is that Auzentech agrees with me, not ROB, Admiralflameberg, Audioguy, and others at Guru3D.
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LOL!, Donnie pulling out his Anti-Creative/EAX Hot Sheet again?:rolleyes:
-You guys that have been here longer does he ever quite with this crap and the cheap shots?
I find it most amusing he would say Robscix is Anti-Creative/EAX. Then again he said the Velbac guys must be hardcore gamers and care alot about gaming and EAX/OpenAL effects. Once again he put both feet square in his mouth -mmm,taste good?. Read this info:
Take notice of the Special Thanks section.
http://pages.globetrotter.net/samaust/Files/Tril-Velbac.html
Which is it? Now if he is so against Creative and OpenAL/EAX then why would he help develop the Velbac application? Moreover the application is partly his idea. It was also tested by people @ Guru3D. Another bunch of Anti Creative/EAX guys-according to him. Perhaps these guys aren't Anti Creative/EAX , but more anti BS and people who spread it and shove it down other peoples throats.
Just trying to clear up some misinformation.:cool:

I am trying to decide if I will buy a Prelude, If it doesn't sound better then my current XM I can use it for Music creation -dedicated DSP for recording and adding effects. I will be interested to see how it sounds. I am also curious to see if it will decode as well as encode digital signals.
I doubt it will be a cheap card as you pay for such quality they build into their cards. Anyone who bought the XM doesn't regret spending one penny on it. Auzentech prices their products accordingly. I know the X-Tension board is compatible with this card and I am wondering if the company may bring out there own drive bay or external unit.
 
I not ati creative the only anti i am, is anti Troll. If i was anti Creative then I wouldnt have own any creative cards in the past. I still defend creative up to some point. but unlike you. I dont troll forums and flame people who dont agree with me . And call them anti-company because they dont agree with me.

It seems you get offended when people say there opinion and it diffent then yours, then you start crying and start calling other people names til they agree with you.

You sound like your 4 more then you being 50ish.You cant force some one to agree with you if they have diffent views. insulting them calling them anti this and that because of it is childish. I bet you would call all amd users who didnt go conroe anti-intel because they didnt go intel. or call all people with western digital hard drives anti-maxtor because they didnt get maxtor hard drives.

This gotta stop. if you love eax/openAL so much then use it.but dont force some one who dont use nor want it to use or had it in the past but dont want it now to use it and put them down til they do.if you want some one to view your opinion as yours then you need to view the other persons opinion as theres. And stop trying to force yours opinion on to theres.


If you didnt force your opinion on other people then put them down because theres diffent and try to force it on them then people wouldnt be mad at you. thats why I and some others getting tired of you.

I dont need some one telling me what i need and what i have to use to game then calling me anti this or that because I dont agree with them. You wouldnt like it if bob tell you . red is a ugly color and you should like blue instead of red and try to force your fav color to be blue instead of red. even if you perfer red over blue. Thats what you basicy doing .

Auzentech didnt say they agree with you just because they decide to make a card with a xfi chip on it do not mean they agree. There just giivng what the people on who voted yes on the poll want. If that poll was the other way around. they wouldnt be doing it.

I more pro-creative then any thing and me switching cards dont make me anti-creative I wanted to use a diffent company sound card for once after using creative cards for ages. I knew what i will lose didnt bother me because i knew what I would gain. But i be dammed to let some one tell me what to like and not like and dis me.

As for the Prelude if it came out before the razer and i liked the reviews and if it wasnt a lot I might would had got it, but its too late now I not selling my card to go get one. I not gonna go thru the hassle. If I want to use EAX3 that bad I can use use that program with my Audigy 2 zs that laying around in the closet.
 
Donnie27 said:
The only difference here now is that Auzentech agrees with me, not ROB, Admiralflameberg, Audioguy, and others at Guru3D.
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Please don't play that card, alright? If you light a match in a room full of gasoline, you can expect to get burned. Then magnetik has to come in and play damage control, and then everyone pretends to not understand why (and then I get PMs for some reason). It's quite annoying.

I'm still somewhat anti-Creative as well, so make sure you deal me in next time. I'm feeling a tad left out.

AdmiralFlameberg said:
You sound like your 4 more then you being 50ish.
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Alright...ease your jets there, tiger. Let's get this train back on its tracks.
 
AdmiralFlameberg said:
I not ati creative the only anti i am, is anti Troll. If i was anti Creative then I wouldnt have own any creative cards in the past. I still defend creative up to some point. but unlike you. I dont troll forums and flame people who dont agree with me . And call them anti-company because they dont agree with me.

It seems you get offended when people say there opinion and it diffent then yours, then you start crying and start calling other people names til they agree with you.

You sound like your 4 more then you being 50ish.You cant force some one to agree with you if they have diffent views. insulting them calling them anti this and that because of it is childish. I bet you would call all amd users who didnt go conroe anti-intel because they didnt go intel. or call all people with western digital hard drives anti-maxtor because they didnt get maxtor hard drives.

This gotta stop. if you love eax/openAL so much then use it.but dont force some one who dont use nor want it to use or had it in the past but dont want it now to use it and put them down til they do.if you want some one to view your opinion as yours then you need to view the other persons opinion as theres. And stop trying to force yours opinion on to theres.


If you didnt force your opinion on other people then put them down because theres diffent and try to force it on them then people wouldnt be mad at you. thats why I and some others getting tired of you.

I dont need some one telling me what i need and what i have to use to game then calling me anti this or that because I dont agree with them. You wouldnt like it if bob tell you . red is a ugly color and you should like blue instead of red and try to force your fav color to be blue instead of red. even if you perfer red over blue. Thats what you basicy doing .

Auzentech didnt say they agree with you just because they decide to make a card with a xfi chip on it do not mean they agree. There just giivng what the people on who voted yes on the poll want. If that poll was the other way around. they wouldnt be doing it.

I more pro-creative then any thing and me switching cards dont make me anti-creative I wanted to use a diffent company sound card for once after using creative cards for ages. I knew what i will lose didnt bother me because i knew what I would gain. But i be dammed to let some one tell me what to like and not like and dis me.

As for the Prelude if it came out before the razer and i liked the reviews and if it wasnt a lot I might would had got it, but its too late now I not selling my card to go get one. I not gonna go thru the hassle. If I want to use EAX3 that bad I can use use that program with my Audigy 2 zs that laying around in the closet.
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ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz uh what?
 
phide said:
Please don't play that card, alright? If you light a match in a room full of gasoline, you can expect to get burned. Then magnetik has to come in and play damage control, and then everyone pretends to not understand why (and then I get PMs for some reason). It's quite annoying.

I'm still somewhat anti-Creative as well, so make sure you deal me in next time. I'm feeling a tad left out.


Alright...ease your jets there, tiger. Let's get this train back on its tracks.
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Simple reply, Auzentech agrees with me. If that's flaming them or me being a Troll, then this forum is in trouble.
 
phide said:
Please don't play that card, alright? If you light a match in a room full of gasoline, you can expect to get burned. Then magnetik has to come in and play damage control, and then everyone pretends to not understand why (and then I get PMs for some reason). It's quite annoying.

I'm still somewhat anti-Creative as well, so make sure you deal me in next time. I'm feeling a tad left out.


Alright...ease your jets there, tiger. Let's get this train back on its tracks.
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ok i was getting tired of getting dissed ok the train is back on its tracks.
 
Phide, are you considering a Prelude or are you happy with your current card? I find it amusing though how quickly the current X-fi users around here jump at the new Prelude.:D
I am not sure which way I am going I will listen to one first and decide from there. It has to sound better for me to want one or atleast the same with more features.:cool:
 
Personally, I don't need digital out, and I already have a card that I'm content with as far as analog output is concerned.

Waiting for full-blown, no-nonsense HDMI capability before I make plans for the Big Upgrade. That's either an AMD card, or an X-Fi 2, or a whatever's after all of that.
 
I hear you, I have a new rig on the drawing board right now. There are alot of changes in the industry right now. I don't understand why a current X-fi user would want this card but to each their own;)
 
I just snagged an Elite Pro for a disturbingly great price, so I'm damn sure not planning on switching out from that anytime this year. Or probably next year. :)
 
Redshirt #24 said:
I just snagged an Elite Pro for a disturbingly great price, so I'm damn sure not planning on switching out from that anytime this year. Or probably next year. :)
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Sure but I have 5 computers up and running in my house. I wouldn't be switching out anything on mine and would replace a lower-end Audigy 4, not my X-FI. I have one common computer in my Den. One in my Daughter's Room and at least 3 in the computer room. One of those belongs to my wife. I already planned to upgrade the Card in the Den computer and it could make use DTS connect and better analog:)
 
phide said:
Personally, I don't need digital out, and I already have a card that I'm content with as far as analog output is concerned.

Waiting for full-blown, no-nonsense HDMI capability before I make plans for the Big Upgrade. That's either an AMD card, or an X-Fi 2, or a whatever's after all of that.
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http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030841647&postcount=33


Nasty_Savage
Its unfortunate, because this definitely caught my eye: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829127002
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Donnie27
That's the one I have planned for my HTPC. The Audigy 4 in that rig just doesn't cut it and I want DTS Connect for Movies and etc..,.... Yet, I wouldn't dare use one or any of those (CMedia based) for my Gaming rig.

Last edited by Donnie27 : 03-30-2007 at 07:25 PM.
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I never changed anything I said. I bought an ESP 5 String Bass or I'd already have the sound card.
 
@Phide, Some people want the Digital out but forget quality is dependant on the receiver you connect it to. I have heard this more time then enough with the XM and the point being the DAC on the card usually sounded better then the DAC unit in the receiver. Even on some "high end" models. I find it funny that people go on about digital interconnects when they are gonna be connecting the card to a 10 year old junker receiver, hear it in a few forums. You might aswell just save your money:rolleyes: It's gonna sound bad. Auzen only said they would offer Dolby Digital Live on the card NOT DTS connect. Which is kind of a bummer as I like both. Buying a $200 soundcard trying to make a $50 receiver sound good. I just tell them to go and buy a $60 X-Music or X-Gamer and be done with it. -crap in -crap out. I have had to explain the finer points of digital audio and interconnects to a few people in a few different forums.
 
Audioguy said:
@Phide, Some people want the Digital out but forget quality is dependant on the recevier you connect it to. I have heard this more time then enough with the XM and the point being the DAC on the card usually sounded better then the DAC unit in the receiver. Even on some "high end" models. I find it funny that people go on about digital interconnects when they are gonna be connecting the card to a 10 year old junker receiver, hear it in a few forums. You might aswell just save your money:rolleyes: It's gonna sound bad. Auzen only said they would offer Dolby Digital Live on the card NOT DTS connect. Buying a $200 soundcard trying to make a $50 receiver sound good. I just tell them to go and buy a $60 X-Music or X-Gamer and be done with it. -crap in -crap out. I have had to explain the finer points of digital audio and interconnects to a few people in a few different forums.
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Agreed. :)

While the Prelude is nice, the Elite Pro will serve me for many years with recording, gaming, etc.
 
The Prelude is aimed at the same type of buyer as the E-Pro. Guy's who want the best sound quality they can get and other features and still have the gaming standards if wanted.
You will be paying a similar price tag aswell...If you know anything about Auzen card though they are worth every cent...
 
PCMusicGuy said:
Agreed. :)

While the Prelude is nice, the Elite Pro will serve me for many years with recording, gaming, etc.
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Laugh out real frackin' loudly as you hear folks talking about junker 10 year old recievers. When these said folks are using POS computer multimedia speakers that can't break 96db s/n oh brother. Dewd, if you think that post was to phide, think again? I was asked to put him on ignore and he was asked to put me on ignore. Now you think he's doing what Magnetic asked him too?
 
@PCMusicGuy, I Think your right. I mean for your using the E-Pro for recording the Prelude will be similar except for DAC and opamps quality the chipset is the same though. That being said it means this card is limitied to 24/192 in stereo mode only. As that is the limit of the 20KX DSP chip. It should also be said though as Phide reminded me there is not too much 24/192 material. Maybe now that gaming market see's that gamers and other are using higher quaity cards perhaps they will start using better quality samples in their games.
The market is changing - seems to be changing for the better aswell.
 
I for one see no reason to surpass anything higher than 24/48 for gaming. I mean, it'd be great to get up to around 24/96, but we're talking about some severe diminishing gains here, and we also have to worry about pre-allocation, buffering, caching and CPU dependency. If we do lossless compression on these assets to save a bit on memory, then we have to worry about the pretty sizable processing hit involved with decoding lossless formats. You'd be kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul there. At some point, we'll have so much onboard memory and ultra-fast RAM to make it something of a non-issue, but what's going to be the typical playback device at that time?

My guess is that we're going to be stuck with horrendous Logitech-type quality speaker sets for a long time. Until we start to see much "higher definition" speaker sets being the norm for the typical gamer's desktop, we're still in good shape with 16/48 or 24/48. Don't let anyone try to fool you into thinking that Logitech's speaker line is anything but tragic.

Consider that most developers still compress the shit out of their audio assets (because they feel as if nobody really cares), and we're still a long way from any kind of very high definition game audio. It wasn't long ago when developers starting dumping 8/22.025 PCM (or, even worse, 4-bit ADPCM, the worst idea ever thought of by mankind) in favor of 16/44.1.

Donnie27 said:
I was asked to put him on ignore and he was asked to put me on ignore. Now you think he's doing what Magnetic asked him too?
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I don't think Audioguy was referring to you, Donnie.
 
@Phide, This is what I mean, gaming audio is anything but high definition. Even games with so called "great sound" are still probably just 16/44.1 or 16/48. It would be nice to get some games with true DVD quality sound or above 24/96. Then again this causes alot of overhead on the card. As you said though that is the future of gaming and is not really a reality right now. I am not saying that current games don't sound good. Not at all, there are alot of great sounding games out there. I'm just saying you think with all the High Definition technology out there you would think that gaming media would just be up around DVD quality by now. The E-Pro was a step in the right direction and so is this Prelude. Most cards can handle these higher bit rates and frequencies and you see ads for EAX HD 24 bit...where are the 24 bit games your gonna play? I just feel PC audio has been stifled so much and could be soo much better. We have had some significant advances though this year. I hope it keeps up.
 
Well, take it from me that the divide between 48 kHz and 96 kHz for foley/FX and ADR is very narrow. With music, higher sampling rates allows the signal to have more "depth". Dynamics improve because transients can be captured more accurately (compare square waves at 48, 96 and 192, for example), and the recording has more overall "range" and "smoothness". The higher bit depth ensures that lower-level passages maintain greater overall clarity, because more bits remain "saturated", but it's not tremendously advantageous otherwise. There's just so much content in most music that the high sampling rates become advantageous -- transients and complex waveforms. An acoustic guitar solo just doesn't maximize upon the potential of a high resolution format as much as, say, a Nine Inch Nails song.

You'd really have to listen critically to find any difference between ADR at 48 kHz and 192 kHz. The sampling rate divide just doesn't result in any critical changes to the signal. The frequency range is quite narrow, and the human voice isn't really transient in nature. For foley/FX, 192 would benefit more than it might benefit ADR, but, again, there won't be any large difference. The best idea might actually be to use assets with various sampling rates, but then you're introducing SRC. The most reasonable way would be to have everything at 24/192 and have an output avenue that's totally non-destructive, bypassing any and all SRC (possibly alienating a large number of users).

It'll probably happen some day, but I personally don't see 24/192 gaming for at least 10 years or so, and I think console titles would be the first to take advantage of this thanks to the faster proliferation of HDMI. We may actually have something better than linear PCM by then (though probably not anything like DSD).
 
phide said:
I don't think Audioguy was referring to you, Donnie.
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Please WTF is this?

Originally Posted by Donnie27
The only difference here now is that Auzentech agrees with me, not ROB, Admiralflameberg, Audioguy, and others at Guru3D.
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Audioguy said:
LOL!, Donnie pulling out his Anti-Creative/EAX Hot Sheet again?
-You guys that have been here longer does he ever quite with this crap and the cheap shots?
I find it most amusing he would say Robscix is Anti-Creative/EAX. Then again he said the Velbac guys must be hardcore gamers and care alot about gaming and EAX/OpenAL effects. Once again he put both feet square in his mouth -mmm,taste good?. Read this info:
Take notice of the Special Thanks section.
http://pages.globetrotter.net/samaus...il-Velbac.html
Which is it? Now if he is so against Creative and OpenAL/EAX then why would he help develop the Velbac application? Moreover the application is partly his idea. It was also tested by people @ Guru3D. Another bunch of Anti Creative/EAX guys-according to him. Perhaps these guys aren't Anti Creative/EAX , but more anti BS and people who spread it and shove it down other peoples throats.
Just trying to clear up some misinformation.
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Again, I get Emails from other who read the forum and don't post here. I didn't call anyone Anti anything LOL! I said "The only difference here now is that Auzentech agrees with me, not ROB, Admiralflameberg, Audioguy, and others at Guru3D.""
 
Pixel Eater said:
Wait, I'm confused, are you knocking vintage audio or something? D:
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NO, I'm laughing at Idiots who do:) I still miss my old Meranz Quadraphonic receiver. You got guys talking about Moding XMeridian and getting it to sound great and then playing the damned thing through Logitech Multimedia Speakers. These have a Lower Signal Noise Ration and Higher THD than even a fracking Sound Blaster Audigy 2 LOL!

Again, His reference was to calling my Pioneer and Infinity Speakers Junk LOL! On the show you Speakers section of this forum.
 
I thought that you are ignoring him... Btw about this card Prelude, I think that it is better if Auzentech did what they did with X-Meridian before, before this the X-Meridian is known X-Purity. There was a sneak peak about the card on Auzentech's website and people can give them feedback about the features, they considered the feedback and later came up with a new design and called it X-Meridian.
 
Donnie27 said:
Again, His reference was to calling my Pioneer and Infinity Speakers Junk LOL! On the show you Speakers section of this forum.
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No, I don't think that was the reference. He didn't specifically say your name, nor did he even state that it was one person in particular on this forum or on any other forum. In any case, it's totally irrelevant, so try to get back on to the topic at hand.

I miss my `78 Marantz as well, by the way.
 
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