Interview With AMD About Mantle And New Radeon Cards

Tamlin_WSGF said:
:p Its entertaining though. Perhaps he'll see some of the benifits while we discuss. :)

Its a shame though they didn't agree upon the budget. My (sincere) sympathy for those that might get laid off from this.

On the bright side, Mantle might make it cheaper for them to get into gaming though. :D
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not going to hyjack this thread, but this is the 18th time we have had a shut down, all primary functions are running. no big deal. and i thats all im going to say..

Elios, will not see any positive from this, because he/she has closed there mind to any positive outcome. You cannot wake someone who is pretending to be asleep.

Mantle looks to be promising and AMD is hedging a lot on its success and i believe they will succeed.
 
I'm almost inclined to believe Elios is intentionally trolling, but usually there's some wit to such activity.
I could be wrong
 
My overclocked 7950 definitely got a bit shinier in my eyes, and will soon duplicate I think, with the coming card dump of ex-gen ati cards
 
cptnjarhead said:
or, the pain is just to great to bear. AMD for the WIN! :D
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Its' to the point now even if he had a valid argument (same with heatlesssun and windows) nobody is going to listen to it because of his endless posts/rants...
 
pcjunkie said:
Its' to the point now even if he had a valid argument (same with heatlesssun and windows) nobody is going to listen to it because of his endless posts/rants...
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exactly, i mean im excited,but no one knows for sure if this will be the next big thing, some are just going overboard on the negative meter. i like AMD, but nvidia makes great cards and they have been spanking AMD in a lot of respect, but im not going to bash anything they do to make things better just out of spite.
 
wonderfield said:
Please define "not that low-level" more specifically.
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It's not a 1:1 mapping of the GPU instruction set. It's still an abstraction layer (which AMD apparently is now saying is in some way portable to "other architectures")

wonderfield said:
Unless those vendor-specific extensions are supported by every vendor (thereby becoming ubiquitous), offered as ARB extensions or integrated into the core profiles in a completely backwards-compatible way
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Which is exactly what I've heard mentioned as far as implementation goes (combination of the above three to achieve parity), which means...
wonderfield said:
no, it's not "code for OpenGL and you're done". Do you understand how the extension system works?
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...yes, it would be. Kinda the entire point.

It's no small addition to OpenGL, but do-able, and potentially worthwhile.

Edit: And again, I heard tell of this being investigated for future OpenGL releases. I'm not claiming I could implement this feature.
 
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As a developer said, nothing is stopping someone else taking Mantle and wrapping it to DX/OpenGL.
 
BatJoe said:
As a developer said, nothing is stopping someone else taking Mantle and wrapping it to DX/OpenGL.
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True enough.

Also shouldn't be anything stopping Nvidia (and/or Intel) from taking Mantle and wrapping it to native instructions for their respective GPU architecture (probably wouldn't be much point to wrapping it through Direct3D or OpenGL, from a performance standpoint).
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
They won't. Its not cost effective and very little to be gained. There are a bucketload of developers and they want to sell their games. BF4 is a prime example of how Mantle will be implemented.

Nvidia and AMD will have superb DX 11 support from the Frostbite 3 engine games. AMD GCN owners will get a boost by selecting Mantle instead (in December). If the boost is good enough, AMD might get more vendors to support it.

AMD can't create support for other vendors on Mantle themselves, since they don't have the intimate knowledge of the hardware of the other vendors to do so.

I find Mantle to be a win for me as both an AMD AND a Nvidia consumer.
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you have NO IDEA what your talking about then

nvidia will never go long with with and will likely pump out there own API
and nv being NV will likely be first pay off a dev make it only work on there hardware
AMD will be forced to do the same

doesnt sound like a win to me

the only good outcome is if devs tell AMD to fuck off but thats not likely with them drop loads cash in the lap

if you think its unlikly every keeps saying how nv is so evil with phsyx it only works on there hardware
just wait till you get the first AMD game like that and it only runs on AMD hardware
and i wouldnt put it past nvidia ether

this isnt about liking one brand over another id be saying the same thing about nv if they did it
but its so much easier just say "lol fanboy" and write it off
the more i hear the worse it is
that vary interview this thread links confirms it will NEVER RUN ON ANY THING BUT GCN
how is that good thing? it means at the least AMD is locked in the GCN for ever or at lest has make GCN core on any thing they come out with after this for it to keep working

most of the GPUs in the wild are Intel so it does no good for that
and almost all the windows tablets are Intel based
again NV will never go along with this
if it doesnt fail your going end up with one engine being NV only and other being AMD only
AGAIN HOW IS THAT A GOOD THING?
all for what a 15% speed bump for a few months way to sell out
 
BatJoe said:
As a developer said, nothing is stopping someone else taking Mantle and wrapping it to DX/OpenGL.
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speed it would be slow as balls
so wile you could maybe sorta make it work you end up with it running or running so slow its shit
and that doesnt even get in to the legal issues of it if NV tried that AMD would let the lawyers go to town on them

3Dfx did it all the time any one tried to make a glide wrapper
 
I've never seen a single modern game that only supported one vendor's low level api. No publisher would ever be stupid enough to do that. If they did they deserve to fail. This fucking crying needs to stop.
 
Elios said:
if it doesnt fail your going end up with one engine being NV only and other being AMD only
AGAIN HOW IS THAT A GOOD THING?
all for what a 15% speed bump for a few months way to sell out
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Actually, you will get games that run both Mantle and DirectX and if you have an AMD GCN based GPU, you get a nice little boost: If you own any other type of GPU: the game still runs just like it does today.

The other option is that the game ONLY runs DirectX, and then both AMD and Nvidia cards will run at the same efficiency.

Battlefield 4 will still run on your Nvidia card just fine. I don't know why you are spouting the Doom and Gloom. It's not like if a game uses Nvidia PhysX, suddenly it won't run on AMD cards at all...
 
pcjunkie said:
I've never seen a single modern game that only supported one vendor's low level api. No publisher would ever be stupid enough to do that. If they did they deserve to fail. This fucking crying needs to stop.
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EA would do it and dont think they wouldnt and so would Activison
just look at Sim City.... and lies they pushed with that
if AMD tossed them the money they would do it
 
pcjunkie said:
I've never seen a single modern game that only supported one vendor's low level api. No publisher would ever be stupid enough to do that. If they did they deserve to fail. This fucking crying needs to stop.
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Yes. I'm sure AMD will get Mantle support out there on a few games, obviously with their relationship with EA and DICE they have going.... but if FXAA (nVidia) and SMAA (AMD) are any indicators... I think Mantle won't get a huge amount of support. Even BF4, an AMD title, is using FXAA not SMAA. nVidia are still a very strong competitor and has a lot of influence, and fanbase.
 
KazeoHin said:
Actually, you will get games that run both Mantle and DirectX and if you have an AMD GCN based GPU, you get a nice little boost: If you own any other type of GPU: the game still runs just like it does today.

The other option is that the game ONLY runs DirectX, and then both AMD and Nvidia cards will run at the same efficiency.

Battlefield 4 will still run on your Nvidia card just fine. I don't know why you are spouting the Doom and Gloom. It's not like if a game uses Nvidia PhysX, suddenly it won't run on AMD cards at all...
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durr it would dumb it make a game right now that only used it there are no cards out with support yet
give it a year or 2 but i bet you Battlefield 5 is Mantle ONLY and locked AMD hardware
 
AMD isnt doing this for the devs there doing it because they CAN they have both consoles locked up
AMD is doing purely to make money
all this "for the devs" is marketing bullshit
 
Well, looks like all the frostbite games coming out are going to run amazing on amd
 
Unknown-One said:
Which is exactly what I've heard mentioned as far as implementation goes
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Mentioned where and by whom?

Unknown-One said:
...yes, it would be. Kinda the entire point. It's no small addition to OpenGL, but do-able, and potentially worthwhile.
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I'm not following you here. You seemed to be talking about implementation from the perspective of game developers, not OpenGL implementers. Now you seem to be talking about the complexity of OpenGL implementation from an IHV/ARB perspective. To which are you referring to here? I was not addressing the complexity of integrating Mantle-like extensions into OpenGL: I was talking about the complexities inherent in vendor-specific and otherwise not-broadly-supported extensions from the perspective of game developers. On that side of the fence, it is most certainly not just a "code for OpenGL and have it work everywhere" affair — it's nontrivially complex.
 
Elios said:
EA would do it and dont think they wouldnt and so would Activison
just look at Sim City.... and lies they pushed with that
if AMD tossed them the money they would do it
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No, just no...especially given the discrete video card market share Nvidia has on the pc. Why would you purposely cut your sales in half or more on the pc platform. That's just stupid. For your own sanity just stop posting...
 
pcjunkie said:
No, just no...especially given the discrete video card market share Nvidia has on the pc. Why would you purposely cut your sales in half or more on the pc platform. That's just stupid. For your own sanity just stop posting...
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why do console exclusives exist then? no different then that
 
Console exclusives exsist because they are published by the console manufacturer to drive hardware sales.

Completely different, we are talking about third party publishers.
 
wonderfield said:
I'm not following you here. You seemed to be talking about implementation from the perspective of game developers, not OpenGL implementers.
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I was until you flipped it.

Assuming they get this implemented in ideal fashion, then it should be a write-once, run-anywhere affair for developers using OpenGL for rendering.

If OpenGL can't be modified to handle that kind of abstraction, then it's a pointless endeavour for the OpenGL devs.
 
The Mac said:
Console exclusives exsist because they are published by the console manufacturer to drive hardware sales.

Completely different.
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no its not AMD would do the same they would PAY EA or who ever to make games Mantle only SO PEOPLE BUY THERE HARDWARE

SAME FUCKING THING
 
You are out of your mind kid.

You need to take a few marketing classes.
 
Elios said:
no its not AMD would do the same they would PAY EA or who ever to make games Mantle only SO PEOPLE BUY THERE HARDWARE

SAME FUCKING THING
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LOL...you way, way, way overestimate how much money AMD has to throw at game developers for franchise exclusivity...much less cover their own operating costs for everything else. Some of the highest AAA games make a billion dollars a release...how much do you think it would cost to go AMD only...ridiculous argument.
 
pcjunkie said:
Its' to the point now even if he had a valid argument (same with heatlesssun and windows) nobody is going to listen to it because of his endless posts/rants...
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It's the first time I've ever put someone on ignore here for strictly on-topic [H]-related posting.
 
I may have to follow your lead, i have an annoying tendency to feed the trolls.
 
It's too early to draw too many firm conclusions about Mantle either way. I hate these kinda super-vague reveals for tech that has the potential to send perturbations throughout the entire industry. All we really have to go on is the ~4 mins that Johan spoke about it on a pre-recorded video, followed by a lot of conjecture by tech writers.

I think it would have been better to have all the details ironed out first, then made a release. The way this info came out has caused us all to have far too many questions, and so a good 90% of the reactions are probably wrong and thus unnecessary.

As far as we know, it could be a full year before this tech is available to other engines... and that would give Frostbite a significant advantage. I'm not sure other engine developers would be willing to wait around for Mantle crumbs to fall from the table. Perhaps they would feel eager to get started on their own paths.
 
Elios said:
you have NO IDEA what your talking about then

nvidia will never go long with with and will likely pump out there own API
and nv being NV will likely be first pay off a dev make it only work on there hardware
AMD will be forced to do the same

"snip"
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Its very hard to read this and please lay off the pottymouth.

Nvidia and AMD doesn't need a special API to make a game run only on their hardware. They can do that today already, but its no point or profit doing so.

IF Nvidia find it valuable to use their own API in games or game engines, they will do that regardless of AMD and Mantle. Already they are putting in hardware accelerated physics on their CUDA API, Bokeh filters on their CUDA API, TXAA for Nvidia only etc. They've been doing that for years.

Nvidia blocks quad-buffers, so Tridef cannot use anything other then SBS 3D on Nvidia cards, the only way I could use Tridef with 3D vision, was if I used beta drivers that supported CRT as option for monitor and then put in a generic setting in Tridef. A known workaround Nvidia blocked.

Nvidia doesn't give a crap about any open standard, unless it profits them. If they can put it into a closed Nvidia only enviroment, they will do so and then they will BRAG ABOUT IT afterwards in their marketing. If Nvidia finds out they can profit from their own API in a similar fasion as Mantle, they will do so. The only thing Nvidia is probably angry about, is that they didn't think of it first and tried a bit harder getting console wins ... :p

With AMD on the wheel, we might actually have a chance of getting an API everyone can use, like they did with TressFX.
 
Elios said:
because i like having to own 2 video cards so an play the games i want
how about NO
AMDs end game will be to lock out nvidia Mantle or nothing and dont think it hasnt crossed the minds of the management at AMD
that is the ONLY reason they green lighted this

and you also missed how AMD has now locked them selves in to GCN for the next for ever as well that worked out great for 3Dfx
im going to laugh when NV and Intel get MS to make major change in DX that would break Mantle by forcing AMD to drastically change there GPU
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when was the last major change in directx though? it seems that ever since the xbox 360 took off the windows directx has been left to languish. They were releasing a new direct x with each new windows launch, directx 10 with vista, directx 11 with windows 7, directx 11.x.... with windows 8. Where are the larger changes? Have they already achieved the best they can? no more leaps needed there?
 
tybert7 said:
when was the last major change in directx though? it seems that ever since the xbox 360 took off the windows directx has been left to languish. They were releasing a new direct x with each new windows launch, directx 10 with vista, directx 11 with windows 7, directx 11.x.... with windows 8. Where are the larger changes? Have they already achieved the best they can? no more leaps needed there?
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Wow...I forgot DX 11.2 is WIn 8.1 and xbone only...yeah, no vendor lock in there. :rolleyes:
 
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