ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi

__Miguel_

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Wow, those are very nice builds.

However, do keep in mind what I said: you need a DECENT PSU with very good 12V rails (300W on the 12V rail is 25A, which is NOT that common on that power class of PSUs). Also, running a PSU close to its maximum stated specs (as well as just about any other electronic part) all the time is not generally a good idea. You said it yourself, mavalpha, it IS possible, but long-term is probably not a good idea.

I know people tend to overshot on PSUs, but that's usually because those ginormous values are combined loads, and the 12V rail is rather lacking (Google "Eurotech" and have a blast... 500W PSUs with sub-20A on the 12V rails combined...). Sparkle and, generally speaking, 80+ PSUs have very good builds, so they can handle what some 400W+ PSUs can't. That's why I said 450W. And the CPU, well, I'm assuming you want to OC, so that has to be factored in, right?

Btw, how does a GTX295 fare power-wise against the 4850 (which is not all that power-hungry for the performance)?

All in all, I'm VERY impressed with your builds, but you guys have to admit, those are pretty good PSUs you have there (especially that Sparkle... damn, that's one heck of a performer). Not everyone uses those. With a good PSU (PCP&C, Antec, Corsair, etc.), those 450W could become 350~380W, yes, but probably a GTX295 might be pushing it, no? It's an SLI-on-a-stick card, after all...

Cheers.

Miguel
 

Dangman

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Btw, how does a GTX295 fare power-wise against the 4850 (which is not all that power-hungry for the performance)?

The GTX295 (289W) uses about 2.6X as much power as the HD4850 (110W):
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=603&card2=566

However, do keep in mind what I said: you need a DECENT PSU with very good 12V rails (300W on the 12V rail is 25A, which is NOT that common on that power class of PSUs). Also, running a PSU close to its maximum stated specs (as well as just about any other electronic part) all the time is not generally a good idea. You said it yourself, mavalpha, it IS possible, but long-term is probably not a good idea.
/QUOTE]

Mostly true. As stated by our PSU editor:
Yes and a quick search would turn up this topic a million times over. Here is the recap:

1) APFC can fool Kill-A-Watts into giving you abnormally low readings (some times giving better than 100% efficiency)

2) Power supplies derate with temperature anywhere from 2w/c above a nominal rated at value to 10w/c.

3) Kill-A-Watt's and most power meters sample too slowly to catch transient loads (the Transient load from our tests is 117w and is COMPLETELY missed by Kill-A-Watts).

4) Power supplies last longer if you stay in the 40% to 60% range of their output.

5) power supplies are quieter if you stay in the 40% to 60% range of their output.

6) Power supplies are cooler if you stay in the 40% to 60% range of their output.


The power meters in UPS software are just as bad. You have to spend some change before you get anywhere near an accurate power meter when your PSU has APFC.
 

__Miguel_

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The GTX295 (289W) uses about 2.6X as much power as the HD4850 (110W)
Ai, la madre... at least twice the power draw? :eek::eek::eek: Even if it's only 1.5x more, it's still waaaay too much of a difference to be comparable.

Ok, guys, I don't think anything less than a VERY competent 380W PSU can handle a system with this beast, and preferrably not at full load constantly... It's a great card, and all, but I believe it's simply too big of a power draw to be handled by smaller PSUs...

Yikes...

Miguel
 

AP2

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well im getting this board along with a quadcore (q9XXX), 4gb of corsair 800 speed ram, 1 2.5 notebook drive, and 5v slimdrive bluray drive. how big of a power supply should i be buying?
 

__Miguel_

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Messages
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I'm guessing not much more than a PicoPSU?

The notebook and blu-ray drive are both 5V, so the 8A of the Pico would still be available.

Anandtech recently (like, yesterday) reviewed the Q9550S for power efficiency and draw (here), and the standard testbed for that review had a GTX280.

Total system power draw was sub-200W, AFAIK, so that can give you a ballpark estimate. I am having trouble accessing the review (not sure why), so you might want to check on that. But at full power draw, you can count at least 100W for the GTX280, so deducting it from the figures you see there, you can reach an estimate for your PSU needs.

A Pico might be pushing it too far (unless you can undervolt with this board), especially because the whole "keep it at most at around 40-60% max stated load" rule of thumb, but you only really need the 8A on the 12V rail for the motherboard and CPU, it might just work...

Cheers.

Miguel

[UPDATE]Ok, sorry about that. Maximum power draw was in fact ~240W when running Crysis Warhead (which won't happen on that system, so at least 10~15W can be shaved off that figure, since Crysis has the nasty habit of pushing everything much more than regular software...:p), but do also keep in mind the LGA775 testbed was X48-based, and the chipset alone has a TDP of around 25W :eek:.
 

mavalpha

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The PicoPSU itself can handle up to 200W, if properly ventilated. Remember that it's passing through the 12V line untouched, it's only sipping off of that to convert the lower rails. I'd worry about melting the wires long before that. However, good luck finding a brick larger than the readily available 110W-with-a-fan. A lower-end Q should be fine: MSI tested a Q9450/Q35 ITX combo and recorded 72W peak draw. However, it is still cutting it close. You are right to suggest a Q9550s or similar.
 

__Miguel_

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The PicoPSU itself can handle up to 200W, if properly ventilated.
Link, please? The PicoPSU manual itself only recomends 8A peak for 60 seconds... And I don't mean that in a bad way, I'm really interested, since I'd like to power 4 regular 3.5'' drives AND a CPU+motherboard from one Pico WITHOUT Staggered SpinUp, preferrably on one of these boards (or the 8200 AMD one, I really only need the 4 SATA ports :p)

However, good luck finding a brick larger than the readily available 110W-with-a-fan.
But who said you really NEED a 110/220V - 12V brick? You can just get the WI version of the 120W Pico and a 150W-no-fan 19V laptop converter :D That's probably what I'm going to, and simply be done with it.

A lower-end Q should be fine: MSI tested a Q9450/Q35 ITX combo and recorded 72W peak draw. However, it is still cutting it close. You are right to suggest a Q9550s or similar.
Actually, I wasn't recomending the Q9550S, that review just came in handy, since it focused on power consumption for the whole system with various Quad-Core CPUs. But if those power figures are correct, then yes, the S series seems a very good option. Or a regular version, provided you can undervolt it (most of the time, you can, and you can probably even go lower than the S series), and the board supports BIOS undervolting (not sure on that one, anyone can chime in?).

Also, one thing I noticed from that review is the lower end Q94x0 seem to be less power efficient than the "big brothers", so I would probably go with a regular Q9550, or the S version of it, if you have the extra ~$110 to spare.

So, has anyone seen one of these live yet? I know they are due next month (if memory serves me right), but you guys seem to be able to catch them way before anyone else... :p

Cheers.

Miguel
 

mavalpha

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Link, please? The PicoPSU manual itself only recomends 8A peak for 60 seconds... And I don't mean that in a bad way, I'm really interested, since I'd like to power 4 regular 3.5'' drives AND a CPU+motherboard from one Pico WITHOUT Staggered SpinUp, preferrably on one of these boards (or the 8200 AMD one, I really only need the 4 SATA ports :p)
Something I stumbled across several years ago, and remembered in case I ever needed it. Can't find it now. (There was also a rumoured 150W PicoPSU discussed at the time, which never saw the light of day.
But who said you really NEED a 110/220V - 12V brick? You can just get the WI version of the 120W Pico and a 150W-no-fan 19V laptop converter :D That's probably what I'm going to, and simply be done with it.
That'll be worse. You'll actually be putting load on the Pico to provide 12V output as well, which will cut into all of your other figures. In the 12-to-12 arrangement, it just passes the input right through, without doing anything to it.
 

__Miguel_

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(There was also a rumoured 150W PicoPSU discussed at the time, which never saw the light of day.
Well, mini-box.com also makes two 200W Pico-ish PSU (manual here), the only real difference being the form factor. These ones still need a 20-pin cable, but they're still very small.

These have a very good 12V rail, 12A nominal, 13.5A peak, though they do need soldering skills for boards that require a 12V2 connector. Input voltage can range from 11V to 16V, though this also requires soldering skills (does a "trace cut" need soldering, btw?) and voids the warranty. However, that might help choosing the power brick, right?

That'll be worse. You'll actually be putting load on the Pico to provide 12V output as well, which will cut into all of your other figures. In the 12-to-12 arrangement, it just passes the input right through, without doing anything to it.
£@€§!

Ok, so in that case I'll actually have to scavenge for one of those ultra-rare 150W+ Dell bricks, which are non-existant this side of the ocean... Great... Hmpf.

But, wait a minute, I don't need all that much start-up power over the 8A (with 4x1TB, 3x2TB+2.5'' system drive goes even lower). Does this mean a regular 9A brick (not that usual, but not that rare, too) would actually be able to manage a non-SSUp build?

Man, if that's possible, I think this will be the time I actually have a mental orgasm... hehehe

Cheers.

Miguel



[EDIT]150W PicoPSU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D (press the grin, it's on sale now)[/EDIT]
 

mavalpha

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But, wait a minute, I don't need all that much start-up power over the 8A (with 4x1TB, 3x2TB+2.5'' system drive goes even lower). Does this mean a regular 9A brick (not that usual, but not that rare, too) would actually be able to manage a non-SSUp build?
With 7 3.5" hard drives, you're looking at 70-80W of spin-up power draw in hard drives alone- 100 if they're 7200rpm. You're pushing it with the 110W brick, possibly even the 150W Dell depending on CPU/chipset. My X2 running at 1.6GHz with a 2.5" hard drive still works off a 40W brick, but bumping it to 2GHz trips the OCP and I have to use my 80-watter. I can't see a computer getting much lower power consumption than that. Annaconda said that at 1GHz and 0.8V (the lowest allowed), his X2 still draws 35W.
[EDIT]150W PicoPSU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D (press the grin, it's on sale now)[/EDIT]
Score, must've just released in the past week! :D I'd given up hope, I thought it was scrapped. I might have to replace my 120W, if for no other reason than to get rid of the Molex->P4 adapter. :)
 

RonindeBeatrice

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FYI, the first generation Xbox 360 PSUs put out >200W at 12V. Some modding will be required to get it to plug into a picoPSU (or similar) of course.
 

__Miguel_

Gawd
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With 7 3.5" hard drives, you're looking at 70-80W of spin-up power draw in hard drives alone- 100 if they're 7200rpm.
Yes, that's about it. The WD 1TB GP (WD10EADS) has a ~1.7A spinup power draw per HDD, so 4 of them would top out the 120W PicoPSU's 8A peak power by themselves if Staggered Spinup doesn't happen... Samsung 7200rpm F1s need 2A each. However, I'd like to know how much of that can be saved with the new "low power spinup" the recent WD GP drives gave (post-firmware update RE2s and the WD20EADS).

My X2 running at 1.6GHz with a 2.5" hard drive still works off a 40W brick, but bumping it to 2GHz trips the OCP and I have to use my 80-watter.
Nice one! 40W full power for the whole system... hehehe

I might have to replace my 120W, if for no other reason than to get rid of the Molex->P4 adapter. :)
I don't mind the P4 adapter, just send it this way... :D

FYI, the first generation Xbox 360 PSUs put out >200W at 12V. Some modding will be required to get it to plug into a picoPSU (or similar) of course.
Hmm, nice finding. But probably even one of the newer ones might do the trick. Oh, and wait a minute... Is the OUTPUT 12V on those ones?[EDIT]Scratch that, I'm multi-tasking, today :rolleyes:) Also, how much does a spare cost you this side of the pond?

Cheers.

Miguel
 

AP2

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so heres a little update from an email i received from zotac:

Thank you for your interest. The official launch date is 2/18 and we are
expecting to receive our first shipment around end of Feb. or early March.
Currently the MSRP are set at $139.99.

im pretty excited about this board as i got rid of my intel dg45fc board due the high pitch sound. all i need is the motherboard and ill be in business again.

this is my system spec as of the moment:
case: Aopen S110 black aluminum enclosure (trying to sell it at the moment)
cpu: intel e8400 (but will be replacing it with a q9550)
ram: corsair 4gb TWIN2X4096-6400C5
harddrive: OCZ SSD 30gb
optical drive: sony bluray bc-5600 slot load

heres some pics of my case that i was gonna use.
DSCN0194.JPG


DSCN0197.JPG


DSCN0198.JPG
 

mavalpha

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How do you like that case? I was looking at it over at Orbit Micro a few weeks ago, but I'm worried about whether the perforations in the panels are enough for an e7200 with a stock cooler.
 

AP2

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The case is exceptionally well built and the quality is top notch. I haven't used the case as I got after my intel board went out. So it just sits in the box.

As for ventilation goes, there's plenty of ventilation on the sides as well as right above where the CPU fan would be.
 

mavalpha

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So now that the ETA is drawing closer, who's putting what into these? :)

My only gripe is the lack of drive support (only 2 SATA), but then I guess they figure most ITX cases can't handle more. I'm thinking about a RAID1 of 2TB drives, and maybe a slim DVD burner in an MI-100. The DVD burner will probably end up USB somehow.
I like the Sugo5 (SG05B), but it won't handle two hard drives without some modding.
 

Blue Fox

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The SG05 will take 3 drives actually, 1 slimline optical, 1 x 3.5" and 1 x 2.5".
 

mavalpha

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Yes, but I specified which drives I wanted. Do they make 2TB 2.5" drives? :p (Read as humour.)

Edit: I was happier with the early rumours: 1x 3.5" internal, or 2x 2.5".
 

Dangman

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So now that the ETA is drawing closer, who's putting what into these? :)

Well assuming I have some spare cash, I'm planning to use some spare parts I have lying around:
- E2200
- G.Skil 2x1GB RAM set
- Seagate 7200.9 160GB drive
- 7600GT

Pick up that Silverstone SG05 case (for now I'm just going to assume that the included PSU is decent) and I should be set for a small LAN capable PC. In fact if that case/PSU/mobo combo works out extremely well, I'll just swap in the parts from my current PC (E6400, 2x2GB RAM, Maxtor 320GB and 8800GT) and turn that into my main rig. :)
 

Tr0j4nM4x1mus

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So now that the ETA is drawing closer, who's putting what into these? :)

I'm also putting one of these together with the sg05... I already have cpu (e6850) ram (2x1 corsair xms2 800) ...I bought the slot load dvd drive from the egg & correct sata adapter
I'll be using the WD 640aals... I have an extra 8800gts 512 that I can use but I'm not sure if I want to do that or go with the hybrid sli... (what cards will sli with the 9300 ?)
 

__Miguel_

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So now that the ETA is drawing closer, who's putting what into these? :)
There were some people in this thread (or was it the SPCR thread... I'm confused, now...) that wanted to put one of these on a GTX2xx-based card (not the other way around, mind you... The GPUs are actually bigger than this board... :D)

For me, IF they actually end up showing up here in Portugal (there is NO way I'm going to cough up at least €30 on p&p to ship it from somewhere in Europe, the bloody thing will cost around €140 to begin with), AND staggered spin-up is supported, I'd love to build a small (about 20x20x20cm), 4 or 5-drive mini-ITX NAS system. That's goint to be hard, though, each HDD is at least €200, which is kind of harsh ATM. Let's see...

My only gripe is the lack of drive support (only 2 SATA), but then I guess they figure most ITX cases can't handle more.
You had me worried there for a moment. I had to read twice to figure out you were referring to CASES, not motherboards...:eek: But yeah, you're right. You either have XXS mini-ITX cases, OR the Chenbro 4-drive case, OR something the size of the Intel NAS enclosure... Not funny either way, though, they are horribly expensive... It seems mini-ITX case price rises logarithmically (sp?) with the number of drives...:mad:

Cheers.

Miguel
 

__Miguel_

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(what cards will sli with the 9300 ?)
AFAIK, 8500GT and 8600GT. You're better off with a more powerfull card and keep the mGPU for dedicated PhysX processing (yes, NVIDIA drivers already allow that configuration since the 9x00 mGPU launched).

Cheers.

Miguel
 

Anonymo

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AFAIK, 8500GT and 8600GT. You're better off with a more powerfull card and keep the mGPU for dedicated PhysX processing (yes, NVIDIA drivers already allow that configuration since the 9x00 mGPU launched).

Cheers.

Miguel

I thought the 9500 did the sli too?
 

__Miguel_

Gawd
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I thought the 9500 did the sli too?
Good question, and it probably should, since it's basically a die-shrunk 8500GT...

However, if you check here, you'll see that even the 8600GT is not on the list, only the 8500GT and 8400GS (my bad, sorry).

Also, NVIDIA dropped HybridPower altogether with the 9x00 mGPUs (which was actually more interesting than GeForce Boost).

Let's face it, HybridCF and HybridSLI are just very funny (and expensive, since that's another "feature" to add to the price tag) ways to get nowhere rather slow. Two hediously slow GPUs will still be unable to behave as well as a similar-priced single GPU solution with a little more "omph" (sp?). And you end up with severe driver issues, since "hybrid" actually means different stuff is forced to coexist - and you all know what happens when you mix two such things, like... I don't know... water and oil?).

Dedicated PhysX processing (or Folding, that's also allowed) on the mGPU is fine, and something I'd like to see more frequently. Also, I would very much like to see the mGPU being able to take control of the video output and completely power down the GPU, no matter what the dedicated GPU is, in tasks like processing the Aero interface, or even HD decoding. Maybe Microsoft can do something about it. They're actually trying to take the GPU away from 3D rendering, so... Now THAT (brand-independent GPU power down) would be a very interesting thing to see, and a very good boost on power efficiency.

Cheers.

Miguel
 

FromTheLou

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I've got a Apex MI-100 and I am planning on putting one of these boards into it. Anyone have an idea where to source a quiet low profile cpu cooler that will fit into a Apex MI-100?

It only needs to cool a e7400.
 

OniExpress

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Getting one of these for my new desktop (first new desktop in years).

Q8200 (cost-cutting measure. I can use this cpu for other projects after upgrading to a faster one)
GTX 260 (will upgrade to 295 when prices drop) $200
8gb (2x4) DDR2-800

Other components will be bought largely with a "what is on sale" factor. Probably using a SSD for the os, and a large drive for storage.

The main goal is to give myself a portable powerhouse; so that when I know I'm going to need more than the laptop I can sling my little custom-fab case and get to work. Also it's been a while since I've been able to play recent games. :p
 

OniExpress

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On a related note to the case-modding, does anyone know of a diagram for the mobo layout? I'd like to know where I need to drill holes without waiting for it to get here and measure it myself.
 

__Miguel_

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8gb (2x4) DDR2-800
Hmmm, 2x 4GB? Is that chipset even able to handle that kind of memory density? Wow!

On a related note to the case-modding, does anyone know of a diagram for the mobo layout? I'd like to know where I need to drill holes without waiting for it to get here and measure it myself.
Here you go. Pages 10, 12, 14 and 15 are probably the most interesting ones.

That's for the uATX form factor, but mini-ITX is a uATX derivative, so you just need to keep in mind that backplate area is still on the same place, and maximum side size is 177mm [EDIT]Sorry about that, that should have been 170mm[/EDIT], which means you'll only have four screw holes, three of them perfectly aligned with each other.

Cheers.

Miguel
 

__Miguel_

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Anyone know a good 260 GTX case that can take this mobo and a decent PSU?
Since the 260GTX is a double-slot part, my guess is you might want to look for big mini-DTX cases, since mini-ITX ones will only be able to handle at most single-slot GPUs.

However, I don't really think anything smaller than uATX is available that is capable of fitting such a big GPU... SFF case manufacturers usually don't expect users wanting to combine a 17x17cm motherboard with a 26x10cm GPU... hehehe

Cheers.

Miguel
 

Synomenon

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Oh that's right. I guess you'd need some kind of strange elongated case to get the smallest case possible that would fit all of that.
 

King of Heroes

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sgo5 will only accept 9" video cards...isn't the 260 longer

Yeah, the Silverstone site uses an 8800GTS 512 as a reference. Something like the XFX 4850 should be perfect for this. If you're using it as a LAN machine, you're probably not gonna go higher than a 1680 x 1050 resolution monitor. A 4850 class card should have absolutely no problems driving that.
 

cnick79

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How would this mobo be for a HTPC or a NAS? It might be a little overkill for a nice but it should make for a pretty good HTPC no?
 

Blue Fox

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Poor NAS solution with only 2 SATA ports. Would make a pretty decent HTPC though.
 

OniExpress

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Hmmm, 2x 4GB? Is that chipset even able to handle that kind of memory density? Wow!


Here you go. Pages 10, 12, 14 and 15 are probably the most interesting ones.

That's for the uATX form factor, but mini-ITX is a uATX derivative, so you just need to keep in mind that backplate area is still on the same place, and maximum side size is 177mm [EDIT]Sorry about that, that should have been 170mm[/EDIT], which means you'll only have four screw holes, three of them perfectly aligned with each other.

Cheers.

Miguel

This seems to be good, assuming that pages 19 and 21 are accurate that is.

As for the ram, it lists compatibility up to 8gb on two slots, so I would assume so.
 

Ruiner

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Will there be any OCing options on this board?
What is the 9300 capable of?
 
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