Zen 3 Owners 5xxx Series Memory Discussion

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
First off I wanted to post a question, but figured this would be a good place to have one thread to bounce thoughts around on.

What speeds and latencies, ect are you running with your prospective processors? Personally I want to get a better ram kit and see how hard I can push my 5600x but I'm unsure how far to go before diminishing returns or hitting a wall.

CPU: 5600x
Mem: Corsair Vengence 3000mhz 2x8 c15
Mobo: MSI X570 gaming wifi edge


So I can either run the mem at 1066mhz c15 or 1499mhz c16. I've tried tweaking and overclocking, but the best performance is always the 1499mhz 16-17-17-35-70-1T

It's frustrating because this ram is Specifically rated to run 15-17-17-35-52-1T, but it has been impossible for me to get that to stick in the bios no matter what I set or tweak manually. Any suggestions/advice on this would be appreciated.

I'm looking at kits at 4000+ with the lowest latency and they seem to hover around $170-$225 usd in general for 16gb. Looking at the g.skill kits, but open to suggestion. Any other Zen 3 owners rocking a speedy kit like this? What are your opinions/experiences?
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
27,473
I think the sweet spot before you run into diminishing returns is 3600 c16. You're looking at double the price for 4000+ for very little (if any) noticeable real world difference.

Odd numbered Cas doesn't play nice with AMD for some reason. That's probably why the Cas 15 doesn't stick. You could try Cas 14, but I'm not sure if the Corsair would handle it without a large bump in voltage. Another thing you could try is bumping your SOC voltage to something like 1.1V. That helps people with their memory stability at times.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
I think the sweet spot before you run into diminishing returns is 3600 c16. You're looking at double the price for 4000+ for very little (if any) noticeable real world difference.

Odd numbered Cas doesn't play nice with AMD for some reason. That's probably why the Cas 15 doesn't stick. You could try Cas 14, but I'm not sure if the Corsair would handle it without a large bump in voltage. Another thing you could try is bumping your SOC voltage to something like 1.1V. That helps people with their memory stability at times.
I'll check it out and report back. Would love to get just a bit more out of these since the last 2 gens or Ryzen chips are so dependent on memory speeds for performance at the high end.
 

5150Joker

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
4,569
I’ll be running my 4 x 8gb trident neo kit at 3800 mhz cl16. I’ve seen gaming benchmarks and that is the sweet spot for maximum performance. If you want good performance ram, get Samsung. Corsair uses hynix and their ram has no wiggle room.
 

zechs3

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
294
Going to be running a 5600x (have) on a x570 Tomahawk (arriving tomorrow)

Picked up some G skill ripjaws 3600mhz @16-16-16-36. $100 at newegg and Microcenter.

I am hoping I can match whatever the fabric clock 1:1 and go tight as possible on timings.

The ram was about a $20 premium for the bdie. I'll see what that bought me.
 

Light1984

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
484
I have a 5800X, GSkill 16x2 4ghz 17-18-18-38 b-die, no gpu, and no motherboard. Hoping to do the 2ghz IF. At the rate things are becoming available I won't know for some time though. 😟
 

Furious Nerd

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
3,077
5600x, Gigabyte B550I Aorus Pro AX motherboard. I am getting a FCLK wall at 1900 - I can Prime95 all night stable at 1866 with stock voltages (even slightly undervolted vSoC, VDDP and VDDG as a matter of fact), but bumping to 1900 I cannot get the computer to even POST. Immediate black screen with no ability to even get into the BIOS, no matter how much voltage I pump into those 3. I'm not sure what else I can change to try to get it to boot at 1900. This may be tied to BIOS updates still, as new BIOS versions come up I can get higher and higher and so are other users reporting the same. But am personally limited at 1866 IF right now.

Since you want to run 1:1, my RAM is at 3733MHz. I have two sets of sticks I am testing out: Patriot Steel 4100 (Samsung B-die), was $105. And Crucial Ballistix (Micron E-die), was $75. Confirmed both stable at 3733 CL16.

Currently testing both at 3733 CL15. Ran Prime95 and TestMem5 with 1usmus pattern, both 90 minutes so far have been stable. Will run that overnight and see.

Very bummed about the 1900 FCLK wall I'm facing. Wish I knew if it is BIOS related or just my particular silicon limitation, as I have another boxed 5600x I could put in, but don't want to go through the trouble yet since many users are still reporting 1900 FCLK walls.

I think the sweet spot before you run into diminishing returns is 3600 c16. You're looking at double the price for 4000+ for very little (if any) noticeable real world difference.

Odd numbered Cas doesn't play nice with AMD for some reason. That's probably why the Cas 15 doesn't stick. You could try Cas 14, but I'm not sure if the Corsair would handle it without a large bump in voltage. Another thing you could try is bumping your SOC voltage to something like 1.1V. That helps people with their memory stability at times.
What do you mean doesn't play nice with AMD? Currently OCing at CL15, everything seems fine? (not doubting, just out of the loop, and not seeing anything odd so far. Scales with the two benchmarks I have)
 
Last edited:

aldamon

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 24, 2000
Messages
6,584
I feel with the 5600X, you've already decided to cap your performance by the most "budget" priced Zen 3. Why not just stick with what you have? I use 4x8GB 3200CL16 with my system that I carried over from my X99. No complaints or desires to upgrade but I don't competitively benchmark or game at 1080p. The prices people are paying for faster RAM like 4000 would be a non-starter. I put that kind of RAM money into my 3080. I know availability is an issue, but even if you're doing something professional where RAM speed can help, more cores would have helped more for that money.
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
27,473
5600x, Gigabyte B550I Aorus Pro AX motherboard. I am getting a FCLK wall at 1900 - I can Prime95 all night stable at 1866 with stock voltages (even slightly undervolted vSoC, VDDP and VDDG as a matter of fact), but bumping to 1900 I cannot get the computer to even POST. Immediate black screen with no ability to even get into the BIOS, no matter how much voltage I pump into those 3. I'm not sure what else I can change to try to get it to boot at 1900. This may be tied to BIOS updates still, as new BIOS versions come up I can get higher and higher and so are other users reporting the same. But am personally limited at 1866 IF right now.

Since you want to run 1:1, my RAM is at 3733MHz. I have two sets of sticks I am testing out: Patriot Steel 4100 (Samsung B-die), was $105. And Crucial Ballistix (Micron E-die), was $75. Confirmed both stable at 3733 CL16.

Currently testing both at 3733 CL15. Ran Prime95 and TestMem5 with 1usmus pattern, both 90 minutes so far have been stable. Will run that overnight and see.

Very bummed about the 1900 FCLK wall I'm facing. Wish I knew if it is BIOS related or just my particular silicon limitation, as I have another boxed 5600x I could put in, but don't want to go through the trouble yet since many users are still reporting 1900 FCLK walls.


What do you mean doesn't play nice with AMD? Currently OCing at CL15, everything seems fine? (not doubting, just out of the loop, and not seeing anything odd so far. Scales with the two benchmarks I have)

Maybe they fixed it, but previous generations were somewhat picky with odd cas memory. You had to pick either up or down 1 to get stability. I think you have to disable Gear down mode to get odd cas to work though.
 

Furious Nerd

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
3,077
I feel with the 5600X, you've already decided to cap your performance by the most "budget" priced Zen 3. Why not just stick with what you have? I use 4x8GB 3200CL16 with my system that I carried over from my X99. No complaints or desires to upgrade but I don't competitively benchmark or game at 1080p. The prices people are paying for faster RAM like 4000 would be a non-starter. I put that kind of RAM money into my 3080. I know availability is an issue, but even if you're doing something professional where RAM speed can help, more cores would have helped more for that money.
Personally, I don't do anything special and don't even really enjoy triple-A games. This is more for the fun/hobby part of it. It's a bit of an OCD thing maybe :) fun to see what numbers you can eek out of your hardware even if you won't notice any benefit. Just playing with numbers and trying different combos is fun on its own.
Maybe they fixed it, but previous generations were somewhat picky with odd cas memory. You had to pick either up or down 1 to get stability. I think you have to disable Gear down mode to get odd cas to work though.
Yes, GDM must be disabled. It will let you plug in odd numbers with GDM enabled, but once you boot into Windows and confirm, it ups the odd CAS up +1 to make it even.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
I feel with the 5600X, you've already decided to cap your performance by the most "budget" priced Zen 3. Why not just stick with what you have? I use 4x8GB 3200CL16 with my system that I carried over from my X99. No complaints or desires to upgrade but I don't competitively benchmark or game at 1080p. The prices people are paying for faster RAM like 4000 would be a non-starter. I put that kind of RAM money into my 3080. I know availability is an issue, but even if you're doing something professional where RAM speed can help, more cores would have helped more for that money.
you're funny. 5600x was the only processor I could find in stock on the planet on launch, been waiting to drop in a 5900x or 5950x when I can find one.

Update from OP:
So i disabled GDM in the MSI bios, and was able to get my rated 15-17-17-ect @ 3ghz. I bumped it up to 3200 same everything and it took under prime without issue. Going to sit on this for awhile and wait for some more soak in time with the new processors to see what else could be possible. Anecdotally, it does appear that a simple 3600 cl16 is the simplest answer for a hassle free well performant setup based off various deep dives and video reviews. There is more to be gained from the appropriate higher clocked and tweaked memory, tuning in the infinity fabric ect, but I'm just going to wait till people have run through more kits and configs to see where everything lands. Thank you to everyone that posted their experiences and feedback. I'll continue to review new posts and add in my own experiences when I do pick up another kit. For me it's all about gaming, with anything else taking a distant second.
 
Last edited:

aldamon

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 24, 2000
Messages
6,584
you're funny. 5600x was the only processor I could find in stock on the planet on launch, been waiting to drop in a 5900x or 5950x when I can find one.

It is interesting. Because of all the stock issues, it seems like people are gravitating to RAM because it's something they can actually buy and control. It's also interesting how all the discussion started revolving around 4 ranks vs 2, which is another reason I stuck with my 4x8GB 3200CL16 with my 5600x. Hope you find what you need.
 

MaxHughes

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
94
First off I wanted to post a question, but figured this would be a good place to have one thread to bounce thoughts around on.

What speeds and latencies, ect are you running with your prospective processors? Personally I want to get a better ram kit and see how hard I can push my 5600x but I'm unsure how far to go before diminishing returns or hitting a wall.

CPU: 5600x
Mem: Corsair Vengence 3000mhz 2x8 c15
Mobo: MSI X570 gaming wifi edge


So I can either run the mem at 1066mhz c15 or 1499mhz c16. I've tried tweaking and overclocking, but the best performance is always the 1499mhz 16-17-17-35-70-1T

It's frustrating because this ram is Specifically rated to run 15-17-17-35-52-1T, but it has been impossible for me to get that to stick in the bios no matter what I set or tweak manually. Any suggestions/advice on this would be appreciated.

I'm looking at kits at 4000+ with the lowest latency and they seem to hover around $170-$225 usd in general for 16gb. Looking at the g.skill kits, but open to suggestion. Any other Zen 3 owners rocking a speedy kit like this? What are your opinions/experiences?
Buildzoid uses G Skill 3200C14 at 4000C16. AMD 2666/2933/3200/3466/3733/4000 that's 266MHz steps. Intel uses 3000/3200/3400/3600/3800 200MHz steps. only 3200 and 4000 are for both AMD and Intel.
 

alyjen

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
103
Is this really 266MHz stepping important? My 5800X with ASUS TUF Gaming B550-Plus and Patriot Viper Steel 4400CL19 is currently running at 3800MHz, CL16 and rather tight timings. I can't push it to 4000MHz with current BIOS as it's too unstable due to WHEA but I can drop to 3733 and tighten the timings even further if that's the better way forward
 

MaxHughes

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
94
Is this really 266MHz stepping important? My 5800X with ASUS TUF Gaming B550-Plus and Patriot Viper Steel 4400CL19 is currently running at 3800MHz, CL16 and rather tight timings. I can't push it to 4000MHz with current BIOS as it's too unstable due to WHEA but I can drop to 3733 and tighten the timings even further if that's the better way forward
Agesa Bios tricks added 133MHz steps in dual channel so lots of XMP speeds showed up. But if you watch reviews and consumer comments most of the angry users are trying to run an XMP speed. The cpu infinity fabric to ram speed match is 266MHz steps up to 3733. Buildzoid had better luck running Samsung B-Die 3200C14 at 4000C16 than he did at 3800C16. 266MHz. I run 4X8GB and 4X16GB 3200C14 in quad channel on a TR. I ran 4X8GB for a year and one click in the bios at 3466C14 14 14 34 quad channel. 4 me 96GB with a 32GB RamDisk is a sweet spot. 3733 on a 5800X sounds perfect to me. That Ram latency shows up in your Infinity fabric latency. Your cpu cashe keeps going to your ram for data. An 8 core with only one ccd doesn't need to look on another die's cashe for info, just the ram.
 

dasa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
492
You can get more performance out of your current kit by tweaking sub timings and for this Ryzen DRAM calc can be a good place to start.

As for the best value RAM for someone wanting to OC that would be 3200c14 as it can hit 4000+ with tight timings but most current CPU\MB are limited to ~3733-3800 unless using unstable beta BIOS which produce WHEA errors and with these 4000+ 1:1 is possible.

Here is a few of the speeds I have hit with 2x8GB RipJaws V 3200c14 and 2x8GB Flare X 3200c14 in a B550 Aorus Pro at ~1.5VDIMM.

4090c16
4100c16-104-BCLK.jpg
3800c15
https://i.postimg.cc/Jrkhc75f/3800-stable-200-boost-not-stable-bench.jpg
 
Last edited:

alyjen

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
103
Agesa Bios tricks added 133MHz steps in dual channel so lots of XMP speeds showed up. But if you watch reviews and consumer comments most of the angry users are trying to run an XMP speed. The cpu infinity fabric to ram speed match is 266MHz steps up to 3733. Buildzoid had better luck running Samsung B-Die 3200C14 at 4000C16 than he did at 3800C16. 266MHz. I run 4X8GB and 4X16GB 3200C14 in quad channel on a TR. I ran 4X8GB for a year and one click in the bios at 3466C14 14 14 34 quad channel. 4 me 96GB with a 32GB RamDisk is a sweet spot. 3733 on a 5800X sounds perfect to me. That Ram latency shows up in your Infinity fabric latency. Your cpu cashe keeps going to your ram for data. An 8 core with only one ccd doesn't need to look on another die's cashe for info, just the ram.
Thanks! that's good summary. Guess I'll give 3733 a go and work on lowering timings to CL14 rather than trying to figure out why at 3800MHz I still sometimes get WHEA error.
AGESA 1.1.8.0. for ASUS improved things a lot. After update at 1800 FCLK I can run tests for hours,which previously would force WHEAs almost instantly, no problem there. But still every few days I see one WHEA warning recorded without any real reason, like kids playing Roblox game.. I could just ignore it but.. I can't :D
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
So I got my new memory kit in last night and I've been manually seeing how tight I can get it at 3800 for a 1:1:1 with 1900 infinity fabric.

I have 2 screen caps for you. First one is from stock g.skill ripjaws V model F4-4266C16D-16GVK, rocking ddr4-4266 8x2 @ LC 16-19-19-39 1.45v

4266-16-19.png


(I upgraded to the full AIDA for complete control so you'll see some additional information in the next screenshot.)

For screen cap 2, I've moved to the 1:1:1 ratio @ 3800mhz CL14. Actual main timings are: 14-14-14-28-42 1T

3800mhz-14-14-14-28-fclk1900.png


You can see a solid improvement in the read and latency from dropping almost 500mhz in memory speed, from a loose CL16 @ 4266mhz out of sync to CL14 @ 3800mhz 1:1:1. I bumped the voltage up from 1.4 It could hold 4266 stable at to 1.45 for the tighter timings.

If anyone wants I can post a picture of the Manual overrides I made on every sub timing, using this MSI x570 board.

So my next step, would be to start probing that elusive infinity fabric 1900+ speed that should theoretically be running at 2000mhz for the most efficient performance. Early bios from AMD and partners hadn't yet ironed out their issues with delivering 2000mhz across the board on the Fclk. Annecdotally, MSI supposedly might offer a little more headroom on the infinity fabric, but this is solely from the single sample of what GamersNexus had compared against Gigabyte.

It's just a PITA to have to remove my videocard everytime I want to put the jumper cap on to reset the bios when I fork it all up. Any other suggestions for timings or ways to improve my latency would be much appreciated. Anyone running CL12 at 3600 1:1:1 ?
 

dasa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
492
It's just a PITA to have to remove my videocard everytime I want to put the jumper cap on to reset the bios when I fork it all up. Any other suggestions for timings or ways to improve my latency would be much appreciated. Anyone running CL12 at 3600 1:1:1 ?
Swap the reset switch on the case to the BIOS reset header.

A screenshot with ZenTimings would be good. You can find the latest beta here
https://www.overclock.net/threads/zentimings.1740690/post-28679857
 

Furious Nerd

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
3,077
It's just a PITA to have to remove my videocard everytime I want to put the jumper cap on to reset the bios when I fork it all up. Any other suggestions for timings or ways to improve my latency would be much appreciated. Anyone running CL12 at 3600 1:1:1 ?
Ouch. There is no way I could have played around with my RAM OC more than a couple hours total if I had to remove the frigging video card every time it stopped POSTing.

Is it even out of reach for a screw driver? That is how I reset mine - just touch the tip of a screw driver to the two bios reset pins on my mobo.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
Swap the reset switch on the case to the BIOS reset header.

A screenshot with ZenTimings would be good. You can find the latest beta here
https://www.overclock.net/threads/zentimings.1740690/post-28679857
I use a little blue jumper cap next to the CMOS to reset everything - takes about a minute to actually reset, anything shorter and I just have to remove the videocard and do it again.

Here is the screenshot with my current config - any recommendations on tightening things up would be appreciated. Really want to get my latency closer to 50ns or even sub 50ns if possible.

AidaMemory_ZenTimings_3800-14-14-14-28-42.Fclk1900.png

I've upped the vcore on the memory to just over 1.45v to stabalize it. Anything under 1.45v won't be stable at tight 3800 cl14 in long prime or other hard hitting benchmarks.
Ouch. There is no way I could have played around with my RAM OC more than a couple hours total if I had to remove the frigging video card every time it stopped POSTing.

Is it even out of reach for a screw driver? That is how I reset mine - just touch the tip of a screw driver to the two bios reset pins on my mobo.
Honestly this ram is extremely forgiving seeing as it's rated for a 4266 CL16 with mediocre aggressive timings at stock. So for the reset on a MSI x570 gaming edge wifi I have to put a small jumper cap the size of a small baby tooth on 2 pins that are directly behind the top x16 PCIE slot, which requires me to unplug the power to the board, remove the videocard from the system, and put the jumper on. I have not had to take out the CMOS battery, but judging from forum posts, it seems people without a spare jumper cap are forced to do this to reset their bios. I have piles of old mobos so jumper caps weren't an issue for me. The only thing I need a screw driver for is to unscrew the mount for the videocard from the back side of the case, and push down on the PCIE release switch, as it's shrouded behind the pcie 4.0 m.2 drive cover directly above the videocard slot. There's JUST enough room for me to poke it with the tip of something small, as you can't even get a finger in there with the shroud covering most of it. I like the idea of just touching the two jumper pins with a screwdriver to reset the bios default screen, but they are directly under the videocard in the middle with clearance of under 1cm when the videocard is mounted.

I've only had to reset the bios 4 times so far, and 2 of them were because I tried to bump the Fclk 33mhz over 1900, which instantly nuked everything, and then I had to go back and repeat manually setting every single timing you see in the ZEN TIMINGS screencap above. I've gotten quite fast at it so it's not much of a deterent. I can see how intermediate users would be put off by the number of changes required. I use 1usmus guide from something like a 3400 CL14 config that matched my setup and just bumped it to 3800 and 1:1:1 with the same CL14. I can screen cap it if anyone wants but my ZEN TIMINGS are essentially identical for the most part.
 

dasa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
492
takes about a minute to actually reset, anything shorter and I just have to remove the videocard and do it again.
That is annoying.
When my GB MB locks up at post I just hit the case reset button which powers off and resets the BIOS then hit the power button before the fans even stop spinning and it boots again.
Probably done this 50 odd times now.

CLDO VDDP is way to high and can create instability
This is what I have needed
4x8 b die 4000c16 850mV
4x8 bdie 4100c16 900mV
1x8 e die 4400c18 850mV
1x8 e die 4866c18 975mV
It is a setting that often results in no post by being just 25mV below a stable setting.

VDDG is also to high try set it at least 50mV above CLDO and at least 50mV below SOC and at most 1050mV VDDG but you probably only need ~950 at that speed.

Some have found setting these values improves stability
RttNOM RZQ/7
RttWR RZQ/3
RttPark RZQ/1 or maybe 2 depending on BIOS.

See if you can get tRDRD down to 4 and tWRWR down to 5-6
You may be able to get tRFC down to around 260-275
 
Last edited:

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
That is annoying.
When my GB MB locks up at post I just hit the case reset button which powers off and resets the BIOS then hit the power button before the fans even stop spinning and it boots again.
Probably done this 50 odd times now.

CLDO VDDP is way to high and can create instability
This is what I have needed
4x8 b die 4000c16 850mV
4x8 bdie 4100c16 900mV
1x8 e die 4400c18 850mV
1x8 e die 4866c18 975mV
It is a setting that often results in no post by being just 25mV below a stable setting.

VDDG is also to high try set it at least 50mV above CLDO and at least 50mV below SOC and at most 1050mV VDDG but you probably only need ~950 at that speed.

Some have found setting these values improves stability
RttNOM RZQ/7
RttWR RZQ/3
RttPark RZQ/1 or maybe 2 depending on BIOS.

See if you can get tRDRD down to 4 and tWRWR down to 5-6
You may be able to get tRFC down to around 260-275
I made a few tweaks on sub timings, seems to be some improvement.
Aida_ZenTimings_52.9ns.png


I can try to lower some of the settings based off your feedback on power, but i had to raise them a bit to get it stable with CL14 at 3800.

as far as the Rtt's, NOM, WR, Park - I've been reading up on these to get a better understanding of their impact and implementation. They'll be my next targets ::bang bang::

Desa, I also saw your FSB was 104, did you set that manually for any reason? I haven't been touching it on zen 2 or zen 3, just caught my eye on your earlier post.
 
Last edited:

dasa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
492
I have been using BCLK to experiment with limits imposed by the BIOS to IF speed.
So when I set 2000IF performance dropped a lot but by setting a lower IF and using BCLK to surpass 2000IF then the MB performed much better.
Going over 104BCLK kills performance for me so that is the limit on my system.

Latest BIOS has the MB stuck under 1900IF but it also lacks all the WHEA errors that came with the BIOS which allowed 2000IF+
 

dasa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
492
IF is typically a limitation of the CPU memory controller\cache interface and pushing higher V can help to stabilize it.

But with current BIOS the problem is often just a hard limit imposed by the immature BIOS and no amount of extra V will allow post beyond these hard limits even if it is stable just a few MHz shy of the limit.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
You can take a momentary power or reset switch from and old pc case and put it on the cmos reset pins and tuck it away inside the case to simplify the cmos reset.
I'll use this for my next build if it's not so reset friendly. I've maxed out my ram from what I can tell, 3800mhz CL14 - extreme sub timing tweaks - and gettigna bout 51ns latency at 58k read

thanks to everyone in this thread.
 

t4t3r

n00b
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
49
Ease up on the VDDG voltages and VDDP. You have some more room on SOC but usually less is more there. It’s Bdie so no reason to run less than 1.5 which it looks like you already are.

scl’s can go another tick and a couple of the tertiaries as well. tRFC can get down to low 240s which has the biggest effect on latency, but you’ll have to tweak these one at a time. Resistances etc can also help you tighten up the timings just a little more as well.

if you’re not running TM5 or something similar as well to validate stability you’re just beefing up your Aida scores. Aida isn’t a stress test.
 

Furious Nerd

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
3,077
Ease up on the VDDG voltages and VDDP. You have some more room on SOC but usually less is more there. It’s Bdie so no reason to run less than 1.5 which it looks like you already are.

scl’s can go another tick and a couple of the tertiaries as well. tRFC can get down to low 240s which has the biggest effect on latency, but you’ll have to tweak these one at a time. Resistances etc can also help you tighten up the timings just a little more as well.

if you’re not running TM5 or something similar as well to validate stability you’re just beefing up your Aida scores. Aida isn’t a stress test.
Any chance you know what affects tRFC values the most? I either can't post or ubstable with my b-die at 1.5-1.55V with tRFC below high 250s, but that is with tightened timings. I'd be willing to loosen 1-2 timings to try and get tRFC as low as possible, but don't know which timings to play with if so.

(I guess I could go stock timings and start with lowering tRFC and get that stable as low as possible, but tbh don't feel like re-doing the process all over again right now, just got done with 2 weeks of RAM OCing on only a week ago. I need a vacation from it, lmao)
 

t4t3r

n00b
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
49
Any chance you know what affects tRFC values the most? I either can't post or ubstable with my b-die at 1.5-1.55V with tRFC below high 250s, but that is with tightened timings. I'd be willing to loosen 1-2 timings to try and get tRFC as low as possible, but don't know which timings to play with if so.

(I guess I could go stock timings and start with lowering tRFC and get that stable as low as possible, but tbh don't feel like re-doing the process all over again right now, just got done with 2 weeks of RAM OCing on only a week ago. I need a vacation from it, lmao)

Yeah it is time-consuming for sure. My 3200c14 kit can dig into the 240s at 3800c14, but you’re talking 0.1 ns of latency difference. This kit is rock solid at 252 tRFC so it’s just not worth it. Nothing wrong with bumping vdimm a little higher to see if you can boot and bench just to see the result, obviously not for repeated use. I would start by reigning in VDDG and VDDP, 0.950 and 0.900 to start. That will give you some room to increase if needed, but your VDDG as it is now is too high.

I’m not sure what if anything is tied into tRFC except voltage, but you could relax SCLs and a couple other tertiaries of your choice to test. The GitHub memory OC guide has pretty clear examples of safe/tight/extreme timings to see where you fall.
 

Furious Nerd

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
3,077
Yeah it is time-consuming for sure. My 3200c14 kit can dig into the 240s at 3800c14, but you’re talking 0.1 ns of latency difference. This kit is rock solid at 252 tRFC so it’s just not worth it. Nothing wrong with bumping vdimm a little higher to see if you can boot and bench just to see the result, obviously not for repeated use. I would start by reigning in VDDG and VDDP, 0.950 and 0.900 to start. That will give you some room to increase if needed, but your VDDG as it is now is too high.

I’m not sure what if anything is tied into tRFC except voltage, but you could relax SCLs and a couple other tertiaries of your choice to test. The GitHub memory OC guide has pretty clear examples of safe/tight/extreme timings to see where you fall.
I wasn't the OP, am just another random guy butting in, but thanks! What is the memory OC guide on GitHub you mention?
 

dasa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
492
tRCDRD may effect tRFC a bit but mostly the more VDIMM you feed it the lower it goes.

vsoc or volatage to the mem
CLDO VDDP is way to high
This is what I have needed
4x8 b die 4000c16 850mV
4x8 bdie 4100c16 900mV
1x8 e die 4400c18 850mV
1x8 e die 4866c18 975mV
It is a setting that often results in no post by being just 25mV below a stable setting.

VDDG is also too high try set it at least 50mV above CLDO and at least 50mV below SOC and at most 1050mV VDDG but you probably only need ~950 at that speed.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
I have been using BCLK to experiment with limits imposed by the BIOS to IF speed.
So when I set 2000IF performance dropped a lot but by setting a lower IF and using BCLK to surpass 2000IF then the MB performed much better.
Going over 104BCLK kills performance for me so that is the limit on my system.

Latest BIOS has the MB stuck under 1900IF but it also lacks all the WHEA errors that came with the BIOS which allowed 2000IF+
Yeah BCLK testing was one PITA bios wipe after another - I think I'll sit BCLK out on this board. On the other hand, I'm getting really fast at entering in like 40 values manually everytime bios gets wiped.
 

dasa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
492
Yeah BCLK testing was one PITA bios wipe after another - I think I'll sit BCLK out on this board. On the other hand, I'm getting really fast at entering in like 40 values manually everytime bios gets wiped.
Same but when you wipe BIOS you can load a saved BIOS unless you forgot to save the previous settings which I often do.
Done a few BIOS updates though and I think I have most the RAM timings memorized now.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
Same but when you wipe BIOS you can load a saved BIOS unless you forgot to save the previous settings which I often do.
Done a few BIOS updates though and I think I have most the RAM timings memorized now.
sometimes the easiest solution is the most overlooked.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,466
Copied from my news post:

AMD released AGESA 1.1.9.0 bios that opens up Fclk from over 1900 to 2000.

EDIT 1: Looks like MSI posted the bios on 1/4/21 for the new agesa 1.1.9.0, going to update now - wish me luck!

Edit 2: Some before and afters - wow the new bios improved memory, regardless of speed, in my case; additionally it now goes over 1900flkc. Memory reads skyrocketed, without an fclk bump, and saw even more improvement when I went from 1900 to 1933. My mem might be at a wall with cl14 @ 3866mhz tho, so I'll have to switch to cl15 for testing of Fclk over 1933 or loosen up some timings. At Fclk 1967 for 3966mhz cl14 my windows wasn't stable enough for benchmark runs. However, AMD has succeeded in opening up Fclk over 1800 with the new AGESA 1.1.9.0

All references are from AIDA64

THE BEFORE: Old Agesa 1.1.0.0 Fclk 1900 mem 3800mhz cl14 manually set sub timings
Note: This was the previous best result I could get for a 1:1:1 ratio on agesa 1.1.0.0 (ZenTimings are the same for all 3 screencaps)

418038_3800mhz-14-14-14-28-fclk1900.png

AGESA 1.1.9.0 SAME TIMINGS Fclk 1900 mem 3800mhz cl14 manually set sub timings
Note: 4470 read improvement with all the same settings at same 55ns latency!

418036_newagesabios.png

Agesa 1.1.9.0 Fclk 1933 Mem speed 3866mhz cl14 manually set sub timings
Note: 11489 read improvement over agesa 1.1.1.0 Fclk 1800, with 6579 read improvement over 1900 Fclk on same 1.1.9.0 agesa bios!

418037_newagesa1833fclk.png

In closing, I'm really blown away at the performance memory wise on these new Agesa 1.1.9.0 bios AMD cooked up. Even their new wine tastes delicious!

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think I can get the same CL14 with tweaked sub timings windows stable at over 3866mhz memory. My kit is a G.Skill F4-4266C16D-16GVK, With actual stock in bios of 4266mhz 16-19-19-39 CR2. Also, for fun, this is the original Aida run for the memory at 4266mhz stock timings:

418040_4266-16-19.png

So, taking Ryzen 5000's Fclk limit into account, I've managed an 18,761 Read improvement on Aida64 with a Latency drop from 65.8ns to around 54-55ns. Make sure to tweak your ram for Ryzen if you have a fast kit!!!
 
Top