z170 chipset watercooling worth it?

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P1_production

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I'm looking to build a custom loop and trying to see what I really want to do before I start planning and buying things. So my first question is would it be worth trying to cool the chipset when it comes to overclocking and gaming?

second question is I plan to run dual 970 gpu's, 2 420 rads, a reservoir, and cpu block (pending either monoblock or chipset block), so what would be the best budget pump?

thank you for the help and suggestion guys
 
Having recently done this research for my own first WC loop my take is as follows:
  • Chipset/motherboard cooling has never been an absolute necessity. It's certainly more useful than RAM coolers which do nothing useful at all, but only in extreme 5+Ghz overclock type situations.
  • The above is even more true as time goes on with more modern CPU's as more and more of the hot components are integrated onto the CPU die.
  • Lots of people add things like motherboard/chipset blocks and RAM blocks more because they think they look cool than for any real overclocking benefit.
  • The effect of adding these things to your loop may actually wind up being negative, as your loop will now be more restrictive. With more resistance your pump will have to work harder at the same flow rate (possibly causing more vibration/noise) and depending on how much extra crap you add, you may even need an additional pump.
  • With more complexity and tight bends there is more potential for failure. If you do it right you shouldn't have any leaks either way, but the more stuff you add, the more opportunities there are for something to go wrong. In the engineering world we have a design principle we call KISS, an abbreviation for "Keep it Simple, Stupid". The more complex you make something, the greater the chances of something going wrong. Always choose the simplest solution that gets the job done.

So, I'd stick with:
  • Reservoir
  • Pump
  • A radiator or two
  • CPU block
  • A GPU block or two

Someone will probably chime in with the opposite opinion though. Someone always does :p
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Having recently done this research for my own first WC loop my take is as follows:
  • Chipset/motherboard cooling has never been an absolute necessity. It's certainly more useful than RAM coolers which do nothing useful at all, but only in extreme 5+Ghz overclock type situations.
  • The above is even more true as time goes on with more modern CPU's as more and more of the hot components are integrated onto the CPU die.
  • Lots of people add things like motherboard/chipset blocks and RAM blocks more because they think they look cool than for any real overclocking benefit.
  • The effect of adding these things to your loop may actually wind up being negative, as your loop will now be more restrictive. With more resistance your pump will have to work harder at the same flow rate (possibly causing more vibration/noise) and depending on how much extra crap you add, you may even need an additional pump.
  • With more complexity and tight bends there is more potential for failure. If you do it right you shouldn't have any leaks either way, but the more stuff you add, the more opportunities there are for something to go wrong. In the engineering world we have a design principle we call KISS, an abbreviation for "Keep it Simple, Stupid". The more complex you make something, the greater the chances of something going wrong. Always choose the simplest solution that gets the job done.

So, I'd stick with:
  • Reservoir
  • Pump
  • A radiator or two
  • CPU block
  • A GPU block or two

Someone will probably chime in with the opposite opinion though. Someone always does :p
Click to expand...

I agree chipset cooling is not worth it. Pretty much nothing of note is on the chipset anymore. Most overclocking is done with multipliers, memory controller is integrated etc...

One minor correction: The pump isn't going to be working harder at the same flow rate. Pumps don't maintain a constant flowrate. They use pretty much the same power no matter what, the flow rate simply changes as restriction changes. So adding more restriction lowers the flow rate but doesn't have an appreciable change in pump load (there is some but minor).
 
Ya don't cool the chipset, it's the vrms ya cool. Depending on setup, and if yer seriously overclocking and pulling down, drawing wattage from your pcie slots, mb vrms can and do get hot.
 
Erasmus354 said:
I agree chipset cooling is not worth it. Pretty much nothing of note is on the chipset anymore. Most overclocking is done with multipliers, memory controller is integrated etc...

One minor correction: The pump isn't going to be working harder at the same flow rate. Pumps don't maintain a constant flowrate. They use pretty much the same power no matter what, the flow rate simply changes as restriction changes. So adding more restriction lowers the flow rate but doesn't have an appreciable change in pump load (there is some but minor).
Click to expand...

Well yes, but if you want to maintain the same flow rate with a more restrictive loop, you need to dial the pump up to a higher setting, and thus it makes more noise and works harder.

At least that's how my D5 Vario works.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Well yes, but if you want to maintain the same flow rate with a more restrictive loop, you need to dial the pump up to a higher setting, and thus it makes more noise and works harder.

At least that's how my D5 Vario works.
Click to expand...

Try a 35x on for size. D5 are high flow, low head.
 
P1_production said:
ok, can i get away with a single 35x with a cpu block and 2 gpu blocks?
Click to expand...

Oh yea. 35x love more restriction. In your mb pwm controller, set the max DC, or duty cycle to 55% which will give you 95% of the pump power for only 65% of the power draw.
 
If you have a simple to medium complexity loop either will be sufficient, but the D5 will be quieter.
 
Nimisys said:
my 35x was considerably louder than the d5 that replaced it.
Click to expand...

They should be silent when setup properly especially considering the pwm dc setting, it should be puttering along around 20% DC on the desktop. Hell, you shouldn't hear it at all thru the fan noise, because as the temps rise the fans rise in reaction and that alone should mask the pump as it scales up too. Shrugs...
 
dunno what to tell you, but mine had a good whine on it, especially as the speeds ramped up. idle was close to silent, but above 1400 rpm, you could hear it, and at 3000 rpm was quite prominent. the D5 at 3500 rpm is about as loud as the 35x was at 1400rpm. granted both pumps were/are mounted to a 1/2" rubber pad and have hard copper lines plumbed.
 
Nimisys said:
dunno what to tell you, but mine had a good whine on it, especially as the speeds ramped up. idle was close to silent, but above 1400 rpm, you could hear it, and at 3000 rpm was quite prominent. the D5 at 3500 rpm is about as loud as the 35x was at 1400rpm. granted both pumps were/are mounted to a 1/2" rubber pad and have hard copper lines plumbed.
Click to expand...

What was your max DC? Did you run the bearing dry priming the loop? The bearing can only take tens of seconds dry running before the coating wears off. And about that mounting, that's not good for a DDC pump, they need to be isolated from vibration and properly cooled. Slapping it onto a 1/2" rubber pad would probably accelerate overheating of the DDC. See, with a D5, the pump is basically inside the loop, so noise and heat is dumped into the loop, whereas a DDC is the opposite, it's doesn't dump heat into the loop and exposes vibrations to the case.
 
thesmokingman said:
What was your max DC? Did you run the bearing dry priming the loop? The bearing can only take tens of seconds dry running before the coating wears off. And about that mounting, that's not good for a DDC pump, they need to be isolated from vibration and properly cooled. Slapping it onto a 1/2" rubber pad would probably accelerate overheating of the DDC. See, with a D5, the pump is basically inside the loop, so noise and heat is dumped into the loop, whereas a DDC is the opposite, it's doesn't dump heat into the loop and exposes vibrations to the case.
Click to expand...


Some people simply have different ideas of what quiet is. Also some people can't actually hear certain frequencies. I agree that the entire DDC range is much louder than the D5 range, and many other people hold the same opinion. I certainly would not call any of them silent.
 
It lasted about 3 years IIRC, I finally replaced it when it had to stay above 2400 rpm or it would stall. It was gravity fed with a large res and the loop could be pre-bled fairly effectively prior to startup. My setup is unique, so who knows. Could have been just a noisy pump. I do know vibration was not an issue, and I did not have any evidence of fatigue with the hard lines when I changed them for the mew pump.
 
Ok guys, looks like I was wrong. I was looking at ways to be able to better overclock my setup and it looks like I might just have to upgrade my motherboard. I've been able to overclock to 4.6 on a msi z170-a pro but this board is so cheap and dinky and just cant do it anymore with lack of features, speed, and wanting to go for a better oc. So in order to hit 4.8 reliably and integrate more water cooling into the board I noticed the "monoblock" that EK has come out with for certain boards that cool the phases I believe? What do you guys think about running a block or upgrading my board in that regard?
 
P1_production said:
Ok guys, looks like I was wrong. I was looking at ways to be able to better overclock my setup and it looks like I might just have to upgrade my motherboard. I've been able to overclock to 4.6 on a msi z170-a pro but this board is so cheap and dinky and just cant do it anymore with lack of features, speed, and wanting to go for a better oc. So in order to hit 4.8 reliably and integrate more water cooling into the board I noticed the "monoblock" that EK has come out with for certain boards that cool the phases I believe? What do you guys think about running a block or upgrading my board in that regard?
Click to expand...

Maximus VIII Formula?

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
 
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I have a D5 pwm mounted in an EK BayRes. I run it at 100% always. Doesn't make a sound.

I also run the EK monoblock on my Maximus VIII Hero.
 
Have used all most every pump out there from eheims to 3.1 ddc's, honestly that is what I used in a dual loop setup for my gaming rig, have on hand 35x and the rest of the ddc, d5 vario and fixed strong ones yet used 3.1 honestly think they are the best pump for quiet and flow,.One would do fine in sli, cpu and even vrm cooling setup np.
 
P1_production said:
Ok guys, looks like I was wrong. I was looking at ways to be able to better overclock my setup and it looks like I might just have to upgrade my motherboard. I've been able to overclock to 4.6 on a msi z170-a pro but this board is so cheap and dinky and just cant do it anymore with lack of features, speed, and wanting to go for a better oc. So in order to hit 4.8 reliably and integrate more water cooling into the board I noticed the "monoblock" that EK has come out with for certain boards that cool the phases I believe? What do you guys think about running a block or upgrading my board in that regard?
Click to expand...


I suggest staying away from the monoblock from EK. I do have it for my Maximus VIII Hero, and I hate it. It has so much heat bleed from the VRM's, and I also HATE the way it mounts. As soon as I can find VRM/MOSFET block for my board, this thing is retiring. I had better CPU temps with the EK MX block I was using previously.
 
alxlwson said:
Beautiful build!
I wish I could get the VRM/MOSFET block for my Hero. The monoblock just isn't cutting it for me- too much heat saturation. Have you seen anyone selling them?
Click to expand...

Thanks. A benefit of the Formula EK vrm block is that the ports actually sit very low so chances of having clearance issues with the rad/fan combo are low. If you look at pic of my setup, you'll see there's just enough room to clear the port to fan. Normally I have to grind the fan to clear the port, but this time I didn't have to do that at all.

Regarding the vrm block, I don't think they make one and it doesn't look like they plan to make one anytime soon. If you wanted vrm cooling it looks like the best route is to get a Formula which comes with the EK made waterblock.

CoolingConfigurator.com
 
thesmokingman said:
Thanks. A benefit of the Formula EK vrm block is that the ports actually sit very low so chances of having clearance issues with the rad/fan combo are low. If you look at pic of my setup, you'll see there's just enough room to clear the port to fan. Normally I have to grind the fan to clear the port, but this time I didn't have to do that at all.

Regarding the vrm block, I don't think they make one and it doesn't look like they plan to make one anytime soon. If you wanted vrm cooling it looks like the best route is to get a Formula which comes with the EK made waterblock.

CoolingConfigurator.com
Click to expand...


Gimme your serial number! I need to obtain one
 
alxlwson said:
I suggest staying away from the monoblock from EK. I do have it for my Maximus VIII Hero, and I hate it. It has so much heat bleed from the VRM's, and I also HATE the way it mounts. As soon as I can find VRM/MOSFET block for my board, this thing is retiring. I had better CPU temps with the EK MX block I was using previously.
Click to expand...
Sounds like maybe you need to change the order of your loop so that the CPU is not getting coolant that's already been heated by the VRMs.

Edit: Oh, a monoblock... Yeah, that seems like kind of a dumb idea, regardless.
 
RazorWind said:
Sounds like maybe you need to change the order of your loop so that the CPU is not getting coolant that's already been heated by the VRMs.

Edit: Oh, a monoblock... Yeah, that seems like kind of a dumb idea, regardless.
Click to expand...


Pretty much. Good if you're doing a small build, but I don't see the point with this. I haven't attempted to push it past 4.5, but with the temp spikes that I get, I don't think that I would. It works out well for the VRM's, but meh.
 
RazorWind said:
Sounds like maybe you need to change the order of your loop so that the CPU is not getting coolant that's already been heated by the VRMs.

Edit: Oh, a monoblock... Yeah, that seems like kind of a dumb idea, regardless.
Click to expand...

If you increase the flow rate ebough the component order is completely irrelevant as the temp is pretty much constant in the loop
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
If you increase the flow rate ebough the component order is completely irrelevant as the temp is pretty much constant in the loop
Click to expand...

This is true, but the monoblock gets heat saturation from the VRMs. That changes the game up a bit
 
No. It isn't worth it. There is about a 10 degree variance between the worst cooled motherboards and the best when it comes to Z170 motherboards. It never seems to improve overclocking to cool the chipset more effectively. The fact is, most overclocking is done outside the chipset. That is, nothing in the chipset really gets stressed by overclocking anymore. The clock generator is usually external now. The base clock is unlinked from the PCIe bus etc.
 
Dan_D said:
No. It isn't worth it. There is about a 10 degree variance between the worst cooled motherboards and the best when it comes to Z170 motherboards. It never seems to improve overclocking to cool the chipset more effectively. The fact is, most overclocking is done outside the chipset. That is, nothing in the chipset really gets stressed by overclocking anymore. The clock generator is usually external now. The base clock is unlinked from the PCIe bus etc.
Click to expand...

The vrm governs the power draw of not only the cpu but also any power drawn from the gpu as well. Keeping stuff cool leads to longer life cycles.

Anyways axlwlson, just go back to air on the vrm, that will improve your cpu temps with that spare cpu block you have.
 
thesmokingman said:
The vrm governs the power draw of not only the cpu but also any power drawn from the gpu as well. Keeping stuff cool leads to longer life cycles.

Anyways axlwlson, just go back to air on the vrm, that will improve your cpu temps with that spare cpu block you have.
Click to expand...


I plan on it, but I wanna try and locate the formula block. All of the full sized Maximus VIII boards share same layout and components. I really want the Formula's EK VRM block. I should email EK and see if they could sell me one. Or maybe Asus will sell me one because... Reasons. Lol
 
alxlwson said:
I plan on it, but I wanna try and locate the formula block. All of the full sized Maximus VIII boards share same layout and components. I really want the Formula's EK VRM block. I should email EK and see if they could sell me one. Or maybe Asus will sell me one because... Reasons. Lol
Click to expand...

Good luck. Personally I would just sell your old board and buy a Formula. The difference of what a typical vrm block would cost versus a special item like the Formula block... might be better off just getting a Formula board.
 
alxlwson said:
This is true, but the monoblock gets heat saturation from the VRMs. That changes the game up a bit
Click to expand...
I was all set to disagree with him, but that actually sounds like more coolant flow would help in that situation. What would probably help more, though, is a better designed water block with more surface area to exchange heat into the coolant. For some reason, the folks who make water blocks don't generally put fins in the parts of the block that cool the FETs.

I'm inclined to agree that, if air cooling the chipset worked before, you're probably better off just doing that.
 
I really meant the FETs anyway, but the ones currently for sale on EK's website look like they have a section that cools the southbridge-IO-chip thing. I assumed yours was similar.
 
RazorWind said:
I really meant the FETs anyway, but the ones currently for sale on EK's website look like they have a section that cools the southbridge-IO-chip thing. I assumed yours was similar.
Click to expand...

Those are for the X99 boards only.
 
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