YouTube Copyright Policy Threatens Game Critics' Livelihood?

It's ironic to see so many people, Steve included, backing Youtube but let the RIAA try to enforce copyrights and these same people will scream bloody murder.
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Not really, the former is talking about a company trying to protect itself from copyright infringement issues as it's within its rights to do, the latter is using a warped legal system to enforce a copyright. I have no real problem with the first, not a huge fan on the 2nd.
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
Wow, jealous much?
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I'm a petroleum engineer, so, no.

I don't follow many people on Youtube, and none that I watch everything they put out, but there overall I enjoy many of Nerdcubed videos more then most anything that passes for TV entertainment these days.

I'm not sure why anyone would view the big names on Youtube any different then music artists, tv/movie stars or sports figures all of which are paid largely for their ability to basically put butts in seats, just as Totalbiscuit and others on Youtube are paid a small portion of billions in advertising revenue they help bring Youtube each year.
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Youtubers tend to be a generally uneducated lot with some kind of mass appeal about them, and they play video games in a room. Maybe you don't see it, but it has less to do with the game itself and more to do with coming off as a kind of friend to their audience, and their audience does indeed view them as a kind of personal friend.

It's almost like predating upon the socially inept (who more often than not tend to be gamers).

I have no love for the Hollywood bozos either, but at least acting is a craft not everyone can do.
 
I would also like to add that they all try to hide the fact they make the money they do and do the best they can to conceal it, all the while begging for more subscriptions and more money in general. They're just scumbags.
 
Steve's right on this one and he's right on this one.

They need to run their own shit if they are unhappy and/or losing money. They would also do well as popular as they are. Those game critics/reviewers need to band together and create their own site. They create great content. I sure as hell would go there, daily at the least.
 
Babbster said:
Sorry, but Google is right.

1. They have to use automated systems to detect copyright violations. Too much content gets uploaded for them to review it manually. If they don't make a good faith effort to detect and resolve such potential violations, they'll be opening themselves up to big judgments.

2. They cannot continue paying money to uploaders for content they detect is copyrighted and was uploaded by someone other than the copyright holder. If they do, again, they're going to get screwed in court.

3. Steve's right. You provide your content exclusively to a third party, you take your chances. There are all kinds of sites where people go on the Internet that are not YouTube or even Google. If it takes more work to see a profit elsewhere, tough shit.

Copyrighted content isn't free for people to use at will. Like it, lump it, or fight for change. Blaming Google/YouTube for the environment in which they have to operate is dumb.
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While true, Google needs to remember that the partners they approached with contracts over are the bread and butter of Youtube. These are the people who give Google a reason to keep Youtube around, instead of tossing it in the same bin as Buzz, Aardvark, and other trashed projects. These are the people who make Youtube a profitable thing. At the end of the day these content makers are the ones helping keep Google looking good. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, and this is exactly what Google is doing, and any content creator that is a partner is going to see it that way. Youtube just made it easy by being able to throw themselves out there to an established audience that was seeking something interesting to watch.

There are plenty of people on Youtube who create original content, and I can't even imagine how hard these guys are feeling it. They aren't playing video games and making commentaries. They're coming up with original content and putting it out there. Sure, there might be an occasional pop culture reference here or there, but no one that isn't living in a cave is innocent of that.
 
Steve said:
I'm not saying YouTube is right or wrong, I am simply saying that if these guys don't like it....do as I suggested: Buy your own servers, host your own content, sell your own ads and let your lawyers deal with all the copyright claims. PROBLEM SOLVED, no more interference from YouTube.
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You'll see, popular youtubers make their own video site and google will feel it.
 
An important rule in life: Diversify

Do not rely on some third-party company that provides a free service for your livelihood.
 
Also, maybe this will mean these people will focus more on indie games since they are less likely to get a copyright notice.
 
FordFanboy said:
I would also like to add that they all try to hide the fact they make the money they do and do the best they can to conceal it, all the while begging for more subscriptions and more money in general. They're just scumbags.
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They hide it so well with their videos of their new houses, their new cars, new shinies, all their out-and-about lifestyles at various ludicrously expensive places via instagram and twitter...

Yup. Hiding it like a boss.
 
FordFanboy said:
I would also like to add that they all try to hide the fact they make the money they do and do the best they can to conceal it, all the while begging for more subscriptions and more money in general. They're just scumbags.
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Scumbags? How do you really feel sugar?

I guess them bitching about their you tube money is, concealing the fact they make money. You sound like one of these guys broke your heart.
 
cortexodus said:
...on top of someone else's service...which he's never paid anything to use...:confused:
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Youtube relies on content maker for their ad revenue. Without anyone uploading videos to youtube, what good will that site be?

Just because content maker don't directly pay to youtube, it doesn't mean Youtube don't need them. Youtube is directly benefiting from these video the community make.
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
They hide it so well with their videos of their new houses, their new cars, new shinies, all their out-and-about lifestyles at various ludicrously expensive places via instagram and twitter...

Yup. Hiding it like a boss.
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I'm not aware of any streamers/youtubers that do that and I'm sure if there are any, there are very few for obvious reasons. From what I've seen, the viewership tends to view them as one of their own, so publicizing extravagance would alienate them.

Since you seem to follow the youtubers so much (funny that you follow their actions on instagram, twitter, etc...), care to expand on what you've said, including source material, names, etc?
 
FordFanboy said:
I'm a petroleum engineer, so, no.
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But clearly both not the intended audience nor qualified to psychoanalyze large groups of people, especially those you apparently don't have an ability to relate to.

We promise not to try and teach you about extracting the black stuff if you promise to stop trying to shrink. :D
FordFanboy said:
Youtubers tend to be a generally uneducated lot with some kind of mass appeal about them
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Youtube is averaging about 2 billion views a day, so generalizing about such a broad audience is like saying that everyone that owns a television set is a retard.

I am the intended audience as I subscribe to a few of these channels and do so because the subject matter is relevant to my interests and I either get previews of new games with actual hands on experience and some of these guys are quite talented and provide good tips too and having spent time with the games usually give you more honest feedback than you'd ever find from a e-magazine paid review.

Regarding coming off as a friend, IMO you're merely mistaking the fact that most people like to associate with others that seem most similar to them. Its not exactly a secret that most people hone in on others just like us.
 
Bamboo said:
Scumbags? How do you really feel sugar?

I guess them bitching about their you tube money is, concealing the fact they make money. You sound like one of these guys broke your heart.
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Or stole the prize at the bottom of his cereal box. :p
 
dgz said:
Down host your shit in the US. Problem solved and american lawyers can kiss your ass.

To be honest, Google is going full retard. Fuck them and their "free" services.
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Yep ever since google with youtube pretty much summed up their monopolies in their respective markets, search, GPS, video hosting, and mobile phones google has started to take very new policy directions. Hey we sell videos now through youtube so we cant have all those pirates / non legit videos up cause they might get in the way of us renting a movie. Commercials on youtube can be forced 30 seconds long now to see a 5 minute video. Ridiculous. Just goes to show once people have power their true intentions are finally realized.
 
Bamboo said:
Scumbags? How do you really feel sugar?

I guess them bitching about their you tube money is, concealing the fact they make money. You sound like one of these guys broke your heart.
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I haven't watched any of their rants (nor do I have plans to), but I already know if the subject of money comes up they will never really allude to how much money they make. Instead they try to align the fact their livelihood is under fire in the same way the Iraqi taxi driver might when his cab gets run over by a tank (similar to indie software devs).

To the uneducated scum that are used to making their six figures by doing anything for a buck and appealing to the masses of friendless gaming neckbeards: get a real job.

That goes for their apologists as well.
 
YouTube bots shutdown an AMD event that was fully legal with all rights paid for music being played and also broadcasted live/streamed... the event was completely legal, completely.
 
The gravy train ends it seems. Quite frankly though, I'm going to miss some of the video posters.
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
There are two main problems with what you say, yes they need some sort of automated system, but they also shouldn't treat their content creators as second class citizens and make it easier to dispute cases where a question of copyright infringement is raised.

It's ironic to see so many people, Steve included, backing Youtube but let the RIAA try to enforce copyrights and these same people will scream bloody murder.
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Careful with the speculation. My take on copyright varies significantly from situation to situation because, well, situations are different. If somebody singing "Happy Birthday" gets tagged on YouTube I'll be happy to jump to their rhetorical defense. The same if someone is playing clips of Steamboat Willie or Casablanca or other ancient creations. I'm very much against the ridiculously long copyright terms that have become law in the US (and elsewhere).

On the other hand, if someone is playing/sharing half or more of a copyrighted song created in the last 20 (maybe even 30) years, that's some bullshit right there and I do hope they get dinged for it. The same goes for people making YouTube videos where they're playing/showing games for extended periods, much longer than would be required to offer examples for comment/criticism. They deserve whatever they get.

The bottom line is that if truly innocent/fair use people are getting rolled up in Google's anti-infringement policies/systems, Google will fix it or they'll lose customers/content. In the meantime, Google has to protect themselves because, as you imply, the RIAA/MPAA/ESA/etc. can be real assholes, and Google has a lot more to lose than Basement McGee and his weekly game review show.
 
FordFanboy said:
I haven't watched any of their rants (nor do I have plans to), but I already know if the subject of money comes up they will never really allude to how much money they make.
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If they did, they'd be sued by Google. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry Steve, can't agree with you on this one. YouTube/Google have been making some really inane choices lately, starting with the comment system and now this content flag bullshit.
 
It should also be [repeatedly] be made clear that Google doesn't obtain and stream this content for free. Not only do they pay for the hardware infrastructure and bandwidth, but they have to deal with all the legal stuff that goes along with this. Just how long do some of you defenders of freedom think any of these professional YouTubers would continue doing what they do if they had to pick up the ancillary costs of streaming their content?
 
On that note, wouldn't the monetized Youtubers may make more money if all they had to pay for was the costs for streaming their content? As right now the cut from ad revenue helps pay for the non-advertised Youtube content.
 
I'm not sure you guys are totally understanding what's going on here. Go check out some of the videos explaining it and come back. Essentially, what it is:

1) YouTube implemented a system whereby content is automatically flagged as copyrighted, regardless of whether or not it actually violates any law.

2) This "copyrighted" content is anything from actually pirated content (i.e. a whole movie or something) to random bits of game footage or music, possibly even from free trailers. Obviously, most game reviewers use game footage in their reviews to illustrate their points.

3) YouTube content creators responsible for creating the video LOSE monetization of the video automatically and that monetization goes to the "content creator".

4) All of this is being done without the "content creators" even having to verify or do anything.

So what it boils down to is, if you create content on YouTube, and you use ANY sort of fair use content, it can potentially be automatically flagged and you will lose monetization of that content until it's sorted out.

Many developers have come right out and said "We didn't make these claims, we are looking into it" and also that game reviewers are free to use and monetize game footage in a review.

YouTube is just fucking up and the whole system needs to be removed and revamped.
 
Babbster said:
It should also be [repeatedly] be made clear that Google doesn't obtain and stream this content for free. Not only do they pay for the hardware infrastructure and bandwidth, but they have to deal with all the legal stuff that goes along with this. Just how long do some of you defenders of freedom think any of these professional YouTubers would continue doing what they do if they had to pick up the ancillary costs of streaming their content?
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It should also be [repeatedly] be made clear that Google creates NOTHING to attract its userbase that it profits from. People that come to youtube to do more than share their own content are there to view content and be entertained/informed. Content creators like this are creating that product that attracts the people to watch the advertisements that Google sells. These content creators are permitted to keep a tiny percentage of that ad revenue as incentive to work hard and use Youtube as an outlet for their product.

You almost make it sound like Google is some altruistic host and these guests in their home are ungrateful. Fact is, Google has gotten much too big, and IMO the justice department really needs to step in and enact the antitrust legislation they are supposed to uphold.
 
MavericK96 said:
YouTube is just fucking up and the whole system needs to be removed and revamped.
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Well said, and just to clarify that as far as I know, when Youtube was actually run in-house, nothing like this was ever even imagined to be implemented. It is not until Google's buyout and control that we are seeing all these shenanigans. I can't think of a single positive change that Google has made since purchase from false bot flagging, removing the appeal process, blocking windows phones from the youtube app, numerous unwelcome site changes to make banners more prominent, forced google+ integration, and more, and even one of Youtube's founders voiced his discontent with the direction.

Cliffs Notes: Lets say GOOGLE is fucking up YouTube.
 
Angry Joe did a follow-up video to his rant, which is much calmer and where he illustrates examples where the system is fucked up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAi81_uvztM

Essentially what it comes down to is that companies can claim essentially any content, even if it falls under Fair Use, and they take over full monetization of the content, even if it's like a 3-second music clip in a 30-minute video. So the person who made the video now gets jack shit and some asshole company gets everything. Also, the system can automatically flag content without the company's knowledge or consent.
 
cortexodus said:
...on top of someone else's service...which he's never paid anything to use...:confused:
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Umm, you not understand how journalist/reviewers, etc work?

How do you think major movie reviewers, game critics, etc make money? Ign, Gamespot, Kotaku, Neogaf, etc?
 
From the sounds of it, the major issue is the revenue from these videos are automatically being redirected towards whoever claims it to be theirs. It can also be taken down by whoever wants it taken down. Now AngryJoe is having stuff taken down due to 16 seconds of sound or video? Just out of curiosity, I decided to see what Vimeo's policy was on this.

How much of a copyrighted work can I use under fair use?
There are no bright-line rules (a.k.a. clearly defined rules, not neon ones) about fair use. Thus, there are no rules such as “You can use 30 seconds” of a video or musical recording.
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In other words, nobody fucking knows what is fair use. Fair use depends on what the copyright holder says it is. Which is certainly not fair.
 
Ducman69 said:
It should also be [repeatedly] be made clear that Google creates NOTHING to attract its userbase that it profits from. People that come to youtube to do more than share their own content are there to view content and be entertained/informed. Content creators like this are creating that product that attracts the people to watch the advertisements that Google sells. These content creators are permitted to keep a tiny percentage of that ad revenue as incentive to work hard and use Youtube as an outlet for their product.
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Exactly this. People are missing this point when they claim Youtube is free so don't complain. The entire Youtube success depends on content creators because that's what Youtube is all about. It is these content creators who attracts the viewers from which Google Ads make its revenue.
 
FordFanboy said:
Quite a few of these youtube people are making hundreds of thousands and even millions. There are apparently many thousands of socially deprived people who cling to these streamers as a kind of social outlet. Some will even watch a popular stream for hours on end. It's creepy.

Given what they do (i.e. playing games, giving rants with their 2 cents worth, etc) they shouldn't be making that kind of money and I hope the cash flow's balls get chopped off from under them or shut down alltogether.
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No shit! And can you believe people PAY MONEY to watch shit on TV or watch other people play sports? WTF is that about? Can you imagine how socially deprived those people must be to watch other people throw around a ball or fake humorous situation?!? :rolleyes:
 
Steve said:
I'm not saying YouTube is right or wrong, I am simply saying that if these guys don't like it....do as I suggested: Buy your own servers, host your own content, sell your own ads and let your lawyers deal with all the copyright claims. PROBLEM SOLVED, no more interference from YouTube.
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Game reviews aside, I think Youtube, relatively speaking, gets away with rampant copyright violation for Movies and TV which is how they stay on top.
 
jpm100 said:
Game reviews aside, I think Youtube, relatively speaking, gets away with rampant copyright violation for Movies and TV which is how they stay on top.
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At the start. Now they have great original content I can't find anywhere else like the /Drive channel.
 
Also, the better and more original "let's play" people do have their own sites. AVGN doesn't even use YouTube as his main delivery method. It's going to suck not having him on YouTube though. He's the only one I watch since he tends to do a lot more the just playing a game.
 
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