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Your Wall-Mounted HDTV Probably Violates Electrical Codes

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Gizmodo ran across an interesting tidbit of information that could have a direct affect on many of you. According to the article, running the cords from your HDTV through your walls is a violation of the National Electric Code that could void your insurance coverage.

Running power cords through the walls is not a substitute for permanent wiring. You're supposed to have a new electric socket installed directly behind the TV, where you can plug in the power cord and coil up the slack to tuck underneath. If you drilled some holes and ran cable yourself all willy nilly, in and back out to a power socket, chances are you are in violation of these codes. Should a fire result, your insurance may find reason to get out of covering your losses.
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The way I have avoided this in the office here is hide the cables externally with off the shelf material from the local hardware store for a few bucks (is there nothing plastic rain gutter material can’t do?).
 
If your power outlet is directly beneath part of the wall where the TV covers, it shouldn't be too hard to run a "proper" wire. I had all of the bedrooms and the living room in my new house wired up with high-mounted outlets (just above where the TV bracket goes) and in-wall low voltage cable channels for the HDMI, audio etc. cables. It is OK for the low-voltage stuff to go in / out of the wall, but high-voltage in-wall cables must be hard-wired with solid-core wire. For those less adept at electrical work Monoprice has a kit that makes it a little easier to retrofit.
 
Yeah, I know a few people who are aware of this and instead have fake walls about an inch off the real wall. Actually really cool cause you don't have a major project every time you need to wire something new.
 
RangerXML said:
Yeah, I know a few people who are aware of this and instead have fake walls about an inch off the real wall. Actually really cool cause you don't have a major project every time you need to wire something new.
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Ikea has a similar solution: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10133943

Lots of furniture stores have "wall mounted" TV stands like this too that makes your TV appears wallmounted, but it's not actually on your wall.
 
RangerXML said:
Yeah, I know a few people who are aware of this and instead have fake walls about an inch off the real wall. Actually really cool cause you don't have a major project every time you need to wire something new.
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id go for this idea.
 
Mine is all to NEC standard. The last thing you want is your house burned down because you took short cuts.
 
RangerXML said:
Yeah, I know a few people who are aware of this and instead have fake walls about an inch off the real wall. Actually really cool cause you don't have a major project every time you need to wire something new.
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That is what conduit in the wall is for. :cool: Only a project once.
 
RangerXML said:
Yeah, I know a few people who are aware of this and instead have fake walls about an inch off the real wall. Actually really cool cause you don't have a major project every time you need to wire something new.
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That makes no sense. You still have to follow NEC codes and you have to construct an entire wall just so that you can save some time next time you want to toss an electrical wire back there? If you have a proper constructed wall and the right tools, most wall retrofits are fairly easy :)
 
On newer construction installing another outlet is very simple even for a person with 2 thumbs like me.

There usually is wire in all the walls to power the outlets, just add another run of wire from the outlet to your new location. If you are lucky like me I only had to go through 1 stud to make it, even that was easy. I just used the existing hole for wire to go through the stud:)
 
i dont know... its not as big of safety concern as the article makes it seem, however, problems are its very inconvenient to terminate extension cord cable, ext cord comes in all different sizes that may be too small for what youll need, and if you are running that type of cable in the wall it's far too easy to leave a bundle of slack somewhere (bad)

if you have an outlet below where you want your tv, but you want the outlet raised higher- any electrician should do it for $50-$100. doesnt matter what home depot might tell you, its not smart to mess with your house wiring if you're not properly trained. ive seen hack jobs that make me lose sleep at night.
 
krupted said:
i dont know... its not as big of safety concern as the article makes it seem
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You missed the point of the article. It's against the Electrical Code which doesn't necessarily mean it must be dangerous. If you use a non UL or CSA approved electrical device plugged into your wall in the US and Canada and it's "proven" to have started a fire, that's also basis for an insurance company to deny coverage. That's good reason to never build your own power cords... not because you cannot do a good job, it's the liability.

krupted said:
if you have an outlet below where you want your tv, but you want the outlet raised higher- any electrician should do it for $50-$100.
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I don't know where you live, but a licensed electrician in the United States will charge you about $100 to just come out to your house, let alone REWIRE an outlet. I'd set aside a couple of hundred dollars for such a relocation.
 
So let me ask everyone this, What if the GeekSquad or Circuit Citys Firedog installed your tv and ran the cables thru the wall and drilled a hole towards the floor behind your entertainment center. So considering you paid a for professional installation and that is what they did are they liable if your house burns down from that?
 
Azhar said:
Ikea has a similar solution: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10133943

Lots of furniture stores have "wall mounted" TV stands like this too that makes your TV appears wallmounted, but it's not actually on your wall.
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That looks pretty sweet.
7221e5c8ec6b08ef6d3f9ff3ce6eb1d1.gif
 
TechieSooner said:
IMO if you mount it that low, there's no use... Might as well put the darn thing on a stand.
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Actually if you have fairly standard seating for a home living room, that is probably the proper height.

Wall mounting isn't just to put it high... My TV room is fairly shallow probably about 15', add the couch and I am 11' from the tv. Add a coffee table and things get mighty tight. Wall mounting saved space from a stand or other entertainment cabinet. Now we can walk in front of the tv/table to get to the other side of the couch...
 
I have my computer on the other side of the wall in the next room. All the cables go thru a 2" hole in the wall, power coming from an apc ups. Only reason I have the power cable ther eis i didnt want to buy two ups. That code makes it sound like any type of flexible cable can't go thru the wall though, it doesn't specify electrical cords only. So am i safe if i buy another ups and only run data cables thru the wall like usb/audio/ethernet ?
 
niconx said:
I have my computer on the other side of the wall in the next room. All the cables go thru a 2" hole in the wall, power coming from an apc ups. Only reason I have the power cable ther eis i didnt want to buy two ups. That code makes it sound like any type of flexible cable can't go thru the wall though, it doesn't specify electrical cords only. So am i safe if i buy another ups and only run data cables thru the wall like usb/audio/ethernet ?
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yes low voltage is ok
 
think of it this way; if the power cord in the wall causes the fire, then the insurance company can attempt to deny coverage. if the power cord is in your room with the tv, and the fire starts in the garage lets say, and there is no relationship between the two that would imply causality, then they will probably try to deny your claim to escape liability, but the judge (and god help them if there is a jury) will put them in line.
 
messerchmidt said:
think of it this way; if the power cord in the wall causes the fire, then the insurance company can attempt to deny coverage. if the power cord is in your room with the tv, and the fire starts in the garage lets say, and there is no relationship between the two that would imply causality, then they will probably try to deny your claim to escape liability, but the judge (and god help them if there is a jury) will put them in line.
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No jury for civil suits. At least, not where I live.
 
Marcdaddy said:
So let me ask everyone this, What if the GeekSquad or Circuit Citys Firedog installed your tv and ran the cables thru the wall and drilled a hole towards the floor behind your entertainment center. So considering you paid a for professional installation and that is what they did are they liable if your house burns down from that?
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Having worked for firedog, it was an extra charge to "move" an outlet. Around $75 or so, depending on the contractor who actually did the job. The holes they cut in the wall are for the low-voltage wires: HDMI cables, Audio Cables, Coax, so on and so forth.

Had they actually run the Power cable through said hole, then they are in direct violation of code. As it can potentially cause a fire, and you'll be SOL on an insurance claim.
 
I have never heard of anyone shoving their tv power cord into the wall, they all just hang down below the tv. They care much more about what you see ON the tv than what you see behind/under it.
 
BoogerBomb said:
I have never heard of anyone shoving their tv power cord into the wall, they all just hang down below the tv. They care much more about what you see ON the tv than what you see behind/under it.
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Well... this wouldn't be an issue if people didn't do it.

I've personally never come across a power cable in the wall, its either an outlet behind the tv or a cable hanging down (usually with the source cables too).
 
meh,. I get it, there's exposed wood and insulation inside a wall .. but still kinda lame. Codes are a pita. I think I know a couple people who are in violation!
 
bbf said:
I don't know where you live, but a licensed electrician in the United States will charge you about $100 to just come out to your house, let alone REWIRE an outlet. I'd set aside a couple of hundred dollars for such a relocation.
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A non-union electrician should be able to do that for under $100 just about anywhere in the US.

Marcdaddy said:
So let me ask everyone this, What if the GeekSquad or Circuit Citys Firedog installed your tv and ran the cables thru the wall and drilled a hole towards the floor behind your entertainment center. So considering you paid a for professional installation and that is what they did are they liable if your house burns down from that?
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This is against code. If they did not provide you with any options, then they are responsible. I'd suggest giving them a call and inquiring them about it, if they refuse... try calling the local city inspector and the local news.

MrkXCeL said:
meh,. I get it, there's exposed wood and insulation inside a wall .. but still kinda lame. Codes are a pita. I think I know a couple people who are in violation!
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It's not so much in the walls as much as it is that extension cords will dry and become brittle behind the walls, the insulation will also prevent the cord from shedding heat and basically heat up the cord even more.

I think a ton of people are in violation.
 
TechieSooner said:
IMO if you mount it that low, there's no use... Might as well put the darn thing on a stand.
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Eh, it's a matter of preference. I can't stand it when a television is set higher or lower than my direct line of sight sitting on my couch. For me, wall mounting isn't for higher placement, but to keep the surface cleared for other purposes. It's about optimizing living room space.
 
krupted said:
i dont know... its not as big of safety concern as the article makes it seem, however, problems are its very inconvenient to terminate extension cord cable, ext cord comes in all different sizes that may be too small for what youll need, and if you are running that type of cable in the wall it's far too easy to leave a bundle of slack somewhere (bad)

if you have an outlet below where you want your tv, but you want the outlet raised higher- any electrician should do it for $50-$100. doesnt matter what home depot might tell you, its not smart to mess with your house wiring if you're not properly trained. ive seen hack jobs that make me lose sleep at night.
Click to expand...

^^ this. Also is it not by law that only licensed people can run wire like this?
 
watertown28 said:
^^ this. Also is it not by law that only licensed people can run wire like this?
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No, only that you should get your house inspected afterward by city officials. You have the rights to build your own house. But city inspectors have the rights to deem it unfit for residence.
 
krupted said:
i dont know... its not as big of safety concern as the article makes it seem
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Isn't that the truth. The article is taken a small item turning into something that's burning your house down....mold and asbestos soon to follow.

Is it code violation yes and I see it done all the time especially in the construction industry where most of the this was written for. Couple years ago I did get a good conversation that later tuned into an argument ;) over the holes in walls wording for 400.8 sub (2). Since the cord didn't go through more than one wall he felt it was code compliant, forget about the two holes made.

Nec 2008 or 2005 both have the same wording for this section but are on different pages, 400.7 is for Uses Permitted and 400.8 Uses Not Permitted for anyone who's board and wants read-up.
 
dandirk said:
Actually if you have fairly standard seating for a home living room, that is probably the proper height.

Wall mounting isn't just to put it high... My TV room is fairly shallow probably about 15', add the couch and I am 11' from the tv. Add a coffee table and things get mighty tight. Wall mounting saved space from a stand or other entertainment cabinet. Now we can walk in front of the tv/table to get to the other side of the couch...
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I'm not talking about having it above halfway up the wall...

Raise it up 5-6" from where it's at would help tremendously, especially with a bigger screen.

When you have a bunch of folks over for a game and some of them end up sitting on the floor or something, having it higher is much nicer...
 
Seriously, installing a electrical outlet behind your TV is not that hard people...
 
bbf said:
I don't know where you live, but a licensed electrician in the United States will charge you about $100 to just come out to your house, let alone REWIRE an outlet. I'd set aside a couple of hundred dollars for such a relocation.
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For one outlet? Nah. Especially not in this economy.

I had a licensed electrician wire a garbage disposal with a switch, put two outlets and two fluorescent lights in my garage, and add two outlets and an overhead light on a new switched circuit in my basement for about $400.
 
Parja said:
For one outlet? Nah. Especially not in this economy.

I had a licensed electrician wire a garbage disposal with a switch, put two outlets and two fluorescent lights in my garage, and add two outlets and an overhead light on a new switched circuit in my basement for about $400.
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He *only* did all that stuff for $400???

lol... I'd say you got a good deal, especially considering the labor...
Wire Garbage Disposal
Wire switch for Garbage Disposal
Put in Outlet #1
Wire to panel
Put in Outlet #2
Put in light #1
Wire to panel
Put in light #2
Put in switch for lights #1
Put in Outlet #3
Wire to panel
Put in Outlet #4
Put in OH Light
Wire to panel
Put in switch for OH Light


Ummm... yea....
 
To pass code in california you just need a single gang remodel box (ie blue boxes at homedepot or lowes), S.O. Cable or Romex 15 amp (white color), a new outlet receptical, and a decor plate. This might cost $25 with tax.

Another note... They also make recessed receptical you can buy from an electrical distributor or order from homedepot/ lowes. This would benefit low profile mounts.
 
Steve said:
The way I have avoided this in the office here is hide the cables externally with off the shelf material from the local hardware store for a few bucks (is there nothing plastic rain gutter material can’t do?).
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Rain gutters as surface-mount conduit? If you have to keep that from looking crappy, you minding posting a pic or two, Steve?
 
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