Your Thoughts on 3DMark threats to HardOCP.

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only problem i see on kyle's side at the moment is consistantly using the word "sucks". But as thats an opinion they can't really touch that either.

Does it suck for game benchmarking yes.
does it completely suck overall? no or else no one would be using it.

do i think 3dmark is a worthless program overall? no, for gaming of course, how else would ATI be getting a fucking 40% increase with just a driver change?! its absurd
 
Token User said:
... and in related news it was announced today that FutureMark wil be the official benchmark supplier to Infinium Labs.

"With 3DMark05 we now truly have an application that can stand on its own as one the gaming community want to see on our console", said Tim Roberts. "Questions on the availability of games, and how well Doom 3 or Counter Strike play on the Phantom console are now put to rest. We have outstanding benchmarks to prove that no matter what we choose to ship, it will be sensational. We have the numbers to prove it. In a locked drawer. Umm, with our auditors, who umm got hit by Ivan, and now live in Guam, making it outside the jurisdiction of the state of Texas. Whats Texas got to do with it? Nothing, except thats where KB Networks is ... and if someone is going into litigation ... we want a part of it. Can you spell class action?"
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I just saw that article on the inquirer.
 
SuX0rz said:
Just wrote him:

As a member of the Hardocp.com, I would like to tell you my opinion of your threats to the website that is my homepage.

You obviously don't understand the 1st amendment rights that are set up by the U.S. constitution; moreover, you are biting the hand that feeds you. By attacking the Hardocp you have attacked the very people that use your product. This action has angered many members of the Hardocp including me. I know that I am not alone when I say that I will never purchase a Futurmark product.

The benchmark "3DMark" is not a true test of how a system will play future games. It can be useful personal level to see how tweaks improve system performance, but as far as a standard "test" that will show how computers play next-gen games it is not. The fact that "benchmarks" like yours will soon be faded out is apparent to more people then you think. Now that most real games have their own benchmarks it won't be necessary to use your product. You know this, and that is why you are attacking the Hardocp, not because of "slander."

Sincerely,

Nathan Dowd


My .02
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Very well said sir.
 
What bothers me most Kyle is you having to have money stashed away for this sort of garbage.(great that you do) One major change to the legal system should include an automatic finding after something like this goes to court or is withdrawn by the complaintant that results in full payment of your legal fees. You see how fast this crap would stop if there was real money attached not just having their in house lawyer make your life apain.
 
Hardocp HardNews 3rd Edition Saturday October 02 said:
One of the big pieces of technology news this week was the release of 3DMark05, complete with a security hole that makes the first bunch of scores utterly worthless. That means that the wonderful score you got with your Falcon Northwest system and that shiny BFG card might not be real. Don't worry, you can drink your sorrows away, like these kids did.
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Maybe he was offended cause he had the Highest score up there? :rolleyes:
 
3dMark is a good standard for computer builders to tweak their machine. But if they're going to be dicks about it, then bla. We need a new benchmark that's easy to load up and run.
I mean, most people don't have time to load up a full version of a game after building their computer. So the synthetic benchmark still has it's place for tweakers.

And all you lawyers suck. Now sue me.
 
I just fired off an email to Tero:

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Mr. Sarkkinen,
I just think you should know that I, and many other gamers, think your product sucks at being a benchmark with any useful purpose. It is pretty and it is fun to watch, and it is useful for testing changes and tweaks. But as far as it's primary purpose, as a synthetic gaming benchmark, is concerned, it is a useless piece of garbage.
Further, I think it is terribly lame of you to be threatening the founder of such a massive community of gamers.
Contrary to what your legal dogs, and possibly yourself, might think, I came to this conclusion long ago when I noticed that I was able to play just about any game just fine, but got a terrible score on your product. I decided it was worthless as a gaming benchmark long before I realized that this was a popular consensus.
Perhaps it might be more productive if Futuremark would work with gamers and hardware enthusiast sites in order to make your products better, and more useful. Maybe then people might have some respect for your products. But no, it is easier to try and muscle your way around and try to silence the opinions of the masses. How can you expect to market a product to a group of people without caring what they have to say about it? Maybe if your products werent littered with money from ATI and NVIDIA, maybe if it was an objective benchmark, it would be useful. But no, it is not, it is merely a stupid thing to be sold to as many people as possible before they realize that it is complete crap.
Just so you know, I have now removed all futuremark products from my computer, and I will never look at your products again. This is YOUR fault, not Kyle Bennet's. In the end, you have contributed nothing worthwhile to the gaming community. Kyle Bennet and his staff, on the other hand, have been outstanding members of the community They actually help people make real decisions for their gaming experience. They provide real-world, practical, results, not just some arbitrary number that means absolutely nothing.
Oh, and we do have this thing called free speech and free press in the US, which allows anyone to express their opinion in any media, on any platform. There is a multitude of web sites out there saying that George Bush sucks, and he doesnt threaten to sue them. There are even more out there describing the lousiness of MS Windows, and yet Microsoft, the legal attack-dog that it is, does not sue them. What makes you think Futuremark is, in any way, special?
Your product sucks, and so does your attitude.

Sincerely,
[H]aMMerHeD

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Morley said:
It's sad in a way, instead of working with industry figureheads like you to make a product that IS relevent, they think that strong-arming you and alienating the hundreds of thousands of readers that call themselves [H]ard (the millions that read this site notwithstanding) is a better course of action.

Perhaps they should have a conversation with Tim Roberts about that strategy.
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My thoughts exactly. I mean where do these people come from?? Is it something in the water that makes them commit PR suicide by threatening and alienating the very people they're supposed to be targeting as CUSTOMERS!?!? WTF Futuremark?!?! WTF Infinium?!?! Yeah, go ahead and take legal action on your potential fanbase, that'll be SURE to work out for ya!! Just ask the RIAA if you don't believe me!!! ;)
 
The Batman said:
If Nvidia was dominating 3dMark05 you'd be licking Kyle's balls.
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You mean like what you're doing now :/?

The Batman said:
Only reason you're prancing about like a little fairy is because ATI is the current 3DMark05 leader. Hypocrite.
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Coming from the john kerry of the hardocp forums this comment really doesnt mean much :).
 
Apart from whatever is going on with the lawyers at Futuremark, the lawsuits at Infinium, AND both you and Steve's daily lives, I'd just like to thank you for sticking it out with the community. You have a long and dedicated following because you do things like this where you'll take legal hits (even when you shouldn't) for one simple reason:

To tell the truth, and speak your mind.

Now, I'm not up-to-snuff on the legality of running an internet website, but I think that if you are able to host a website, you can do anything the 1st amendment allows you to do. I mean, obviously, there are porno sites on the internet -- something that if was done in real life, people would be arrested for indecent exposure, etc. Even strip clubs don't offer some of the things these websites do. So in my opinion, I view this site AS a forum. It's all one big huge forum. It is a community. This is our website, and you yourself have said that you will dedicate hardocp for the readers and enthusiasts. Does it make sense that if you learn about something, and you post it, that there should be repercussions? Hell no! That IS what the 1st amendment is about. Anyone can be allowed to say whatever they want about Futuremark, be it good or bad. I could say that Futuremark is a terrible company because they make pathetic attempts to sue enthusiast websites. Is that a stretch from the truth? Maybe. Could I get sued for it? According to Futuremark, "You know what I mean."

No sorry, I don't think Futuremark knows what it means. Taking legal action against anyone is a very expensive process and it only hurts both parties, even if there IS a judgement. I would think that futuremark is doing this because they're looking to make some quick cash off of you guys. Obviously, there would be no other intent. If they want to make their programs more popular, I think all the jeer they are about to receive from the community is enough popularity for a while.

All in all, thanks for staying around. And as always, you have another [H]ard|Member to support you.
 
I think the timing is what is killer, with Reverend over at Beyond3D leaving Futuremarks BDP program due to what he views as problems with it and how that caused some people (cough-cough :rolleyes: ) to get really pissed off at Futuremark and predicted it would alienate the community support for FM, which I personally think is all that carried them thru the FX period.

Now when they'll be desperately needing community support, the community is gonna return the same gratitude that FM showed us. ;)

Better make it a jumbo popcorn for me!
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agree with Futuremark. Kyle has a personal issue with the benchmark and since his point of view is the only thing that is voiced on the websites front page, it unduely influences the tens of thousands that visit this site each day. We need a polar opposite to Kyle as editor to keep things fair and balanced.
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There is simply no relevance to that statement. I disagree with every point in that statement but even if it was true, there is still no relevance to it. It doesn't matter if it is personal or not (I don't agree that it is), it doesn't matter if there is another "polar" point of view (it's Kyle's website and and no mandate to be politically correct). The only thing that matters is if it's slanderous or untrue. Neither is even close to being an issue. This is simply Futuremark trying to throw its weight around and influence free press, nothing more. Infinium Labs tried to pull this same thing and the only thing it did was cost both sides money and made themselves look worse.
 
Wow, I'm amazed how many of you [H]ardcore member actually emailed FM~

WAHAHAHA.... Maybe FM can says HardOCP sucks at their front page?

Today is The best day I had with hardocp.com~
 
trudeak said:
One major change to the legal system should include an automatic finding after something like this goes to court or is withdrawn by the complaintant that results in full payment of your legal fees. You see how fast this crap would stop if there was real money attached.
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I agree, why should you be made to pay for having to consult your legal department over such asnine allegations.

If there is an unofficial boycott of this product in place by the members of this community until [H] gets a formal apology, I'm in.
 
There, all futuremark crap is now off my machine and I've saved almost a gig on my HD.
 
I never thought I'd find myself saying this...

but go forth and kick-ass Kyle. :p

PS- Good job posting his email address. ;)
 
Absurd they feel the need to make threats on the basis of [H]ard | OCP's opinion. Hard's opinion's are pretty much in line what hardware enthusiasts think of 3DMark2005 its fun to post your scores and compare but would I use the results to make a video card choice? Hell no! There are too many factors that affect the score and for what? Just because your system runs 3D Mark 2005 a certain way does not mean it will run games just the same, a 3514 3DMarks means nothing when I'm playing Doom 3 or Far Cry or Unreal Tournament 2004. Have fun stomping them if they take you to court, I'm just sad you have to waste your time with people like Futuremark.
 
ridiculous. lame. a very bad idea.

- my thoughts on "3DMark threats to HardOCP".
 
3Dmark sucks for anything other then a burn in utility. One of the reasons I visit this site every day is they don't kowtow to companies like these boobs... ;)
 
I never liked 3DMark even before I read anything on HardOCP about it.

Why pay money to tell me how fast my system is. If I know anything about anything....I'd know whether my system sucked, or whether it was top-of-class.

Watching some fancy flyby's tells me nothing of how my games will run. 9/10 games run excellent on my system, but theres always one that might run differently because it leans more towards one GPU than another in terms of performance.

3DMark is useless in my opinion, unless you want some benchmark "number" from a random test to compare against other people on the net.

I liken 3DMark to those Body Mass Index tests. Someone can be short and built like a tank, and have a huge BMI....but they aren't fat. BMI is just a 'number' to take a guess from, same as 3Dmark.
 
Nomad said:
I just saw that article on the inquirer.
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They can have me create fictional content for them whenever they like :) ... or is referring to content on the inquirer site being ficticious libelous as well. Oh my God - we are all going to get our arses (or is that ars.es - the spansih speaking Ars Technica site) sued.

Kyle - keeping money in the kitty for this type of baseless litigation is adrag. If you ever need donations to fight this crap, you have a strong community behind you all the way.
 
I would like to think FutureMark has already fired this guy for being so completely incompetent in handling an IMPORTANT PUBLIC RELATION ISSUE.. He would have been far better off to simply address what he felt were the strong points of Futuremark and assured the public that with good feed back perhaps they could focus on continuous improvement... Now I dont even wanna use their product I'm so turned off!!! ARROGANCE!!!
 
First off let me say that I side with Kyle and our right to Free Speech...

Futuremark is barking up the wrong tree. It is no secret that Kyle doesn't like the benchmark, but what in the hell is Futuremark thinking talking about a lawsuit? If two groups of people don't get along a big fat lawsuit isn't going ot help matters. Futuremark is a company for two main reasons... They get support from the hardware companies and us as consumers. They are pissing off the consumer and in the long run hurting the company.

Someone once told me a story about how Kyle got into mouse pads... A company (Gamersport I believe) said if you don't like ours then go make your own. He did and it worked. Maybe it's time for Kyle to spinoff another company doing benchmarks that matter.

In the meantime screw Futuremark. I'll never pay for a product from a company that threatens to sue good people with the money I gave them.
 
Kyle, though I agree that Futtermark is out of bounds saying that you are slandering their product, I do see a little validity in their claim.

In the recent news announcements about 3DM05, there HAVE been subtle notions that you disapprove of 3Dmark. They are in no way slanderous, but the "too bad it's not good for anything in the gaming world" seeps through

Benchmarks such as this one are good for one thing: ePenis

How many people do you know go to a lan/iRC etc, and say "Dude! I got an average of 47FPS at blah blah blah settings in doom 3!" It's far easier to use a benchmarking tool, such as 3dmark or AquaMark, to compare systems. Sure, it's not a realistic representation of the gaming world, but it is close enough to give accurate comparisons on a default setting table.
 
It's starting to get annoying how companies with high priced lawyers can apparently circumvent the first amendment.

I'm sure if there was the threat that enough people would read this post and believe it, I could be sued for "libel" for calling something annoying. Some people have taken the measures implemented in the legal system which were originally designed as a means for protection, and have abused them to great effect to oppress other peoples' Constitutional rights. Fucking ridiculous.
 
Nomad said:
I am formulating an email right now.
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My email will be going to nVidia with a cc to Futuremark to ask a simple question:

What does nVidia get in return for funding Futuremark's 3DMark program aside from the obvious bad press ?


-X
 
This thread needs to be on the front page of [H]ard right now. and somthing said about this thread and how [H]ard members are extremly pissed off at FM...

Screwing with [H]ardOCP and it's members is like screwing with pack of hungery gamers rdy to consume a weekend away at a LAN :D
 
Hmm, wouldn't this guy Tero look the fool explaining the legal fee's for an attack on a hardware site comprised almost entirely of their key demographic to the company's President , CFO and investors?
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

forgive me for laughing, this is a serious matter..






HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is just plain retarded. What is futuremark thinking? "umm...lets alienate our users by threatening a popular website a lot of them visit on a daily basis because their opinion makes our product look bad." Yeah..that's good business sense..You think they would learn from IL.. :rolleyes:

man i love the end of the article w/ the link to the US Constitution. Great touch Kyle!
 
If this does get to a lawsuit it could get VERY interesting and comical. It sems that since 3dMark 2003 all the pissing contests have insued. The vid card market/community used to be so peacefull :(
 
Seems like you cannot give an opinion on anything these days without someone bitchin. Vundu starts to regret going Pro on 3DMark05 :rolleyes:
 
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