Yet another upgrade advise thread!

[Kasher_Khan]

I have had the system in my signature for a almost two years now. It has been able to keep up this far but it is finally time for a full upgrade.

I mostly am looking forward to games like Crysis, Flight Sim X ( man that game makes my current system crawl, COD4 (demo plays suprisingly well on my current rig) etc.

I am considering the following components but am open to suggestions

CPU : Core 2 Duo E6850 ( I like the stock 3.0Ghz speed but am hoping to overclock as well)

Mobo: EVGA 680i ( but am not sure about the different versions that differ as much at 100$ in price )

memory: again lost on this... I am switching to the intel platform after several years, and have been out of the game. I used to like Gskill in the past. I am not sure if very high mem speeds are necessary if I am to keep 1:1 ratio for overclocking and in the end I may not overclock at all... in my last experience with ocing... I didn't see any real gains in performance taking a 2.2 opty to 3.0ghz)

Graphics - 8800GTX at stock.. and plan to oc to 620mhz or so without additional cooling, I have yet to see the benifits of SLI that warant the price... I currently run at 1680 by 1050 but am considering upgrading to a 1920 by 1200 moniter. How will the single card handle that res for games like crysis.

I have an Antec trio 650 watt PSU that I plan to keep to power the system.

My budget is about $1500 but i am willing to go up if I see the gains...

I know I have to research more, I am counting on real reviews from folks with similar hardware when the games I want to play on this rig come out next month.

In the mean time any tips, pointers and opions are appericiated.

THANKS In ADVANCE!

 

[tiraides]

I'm sure others will follow with better suggestions, but here's a base to start from....

Drop down to an E6750... it's $100 less than the E6850 and can overclock just as well. (Or, you could go for a Q6600.) G.Skill is still good RAM, and you can find a 2GB set at NewEgg for $65. With the new Core 2 Duos/Quads, you don't really need to worry about overclocking the RAM.

On Intel platforms, there is really no point running the RAM faster than the standard 2 x [base FSB speed], especially if it costs more money to do so.

DDR3-1333 implies a base FSB speed of 667Mhz, if keeping a 1:1 Ratio with the CPU. I don't think there is any current board, nor CPU, that can handle a base FSB speed that high. Therefore, DDR3 is useless due to its price premium.

(CPU Multiplier) x [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed
2 x [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed
4 x [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is useless. Keep it linked at 1:1:

E6750: 8 * 333 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-667 << STOCK speeds
E6750: 8 * 400 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-800 << Easy OC
E6750: 8 * 450 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-900 << Good OC
E6750: 8 * 500 = 4.0Ghz, DDR2-1000 << Great OC, near max on good cooling

Also, you may want to get a better CPU HSF for your processor. Some good choices include the Tuniq Tower 120 and the Scythe Ninja Plus rev.B, among others.

SLI is a bad upgrade choice for graphics, unless you plan on using a monitor larger than 24" and game using its native/maximum resolution. If you don't need SLI, which is the main purpose of the EVGA 680i board, choose an Intel P35-based board such as the Gigabyte P35 or the Abit IP35 series. Make sure that you buy a board based on what you need... more features mean higher prices.

Cases are a matter a personal taste, so I won't recommend one to you. That said, the Antec TruePower 650 Trio is a good, though not great, PSU.

Really, everything you have already is fine....

 

[Kasher_Khan]

First of all thanks for you response! I really appericiate the guidance!

What you have said is not surprising... as I have been searching these forums and most of the people have similar opionions about what you have stated.

I have posted this in some other threads here too.. but what I don't understand is the lack of love for hte E6850... maybe its just me but the idea of stock 3.0GHZ speed sounds apealing.

I could take your advise and go with a Q6600 and if it is as easy to overclock as you say I should be able to bring it up to 3.0Ghz wtih memory you recommended ( man is that popular or what on newegg)

I was a bit nervous abou it though cause the EVGA 680i board doesn't list it as a supported type and on my last custom build I had a ton of issue with mobo compatibility issues.

Does anyone have the mentioned gskill mem working witht he EVGA board.

I don't plan on using SLI but like the overall features of the board and don't mind having that option available. I don't plan on getting a moniter bigger than 24" but who knows...

I am also concerend about he GTX fitting in my Antec 180.. it is by far the biggest case I have had, so if it doesn't fit I don't know what else to do...

I know my PSU isn't the best but it is several years old, I would think it would be enough to power a single card, although i can get a better one if I have to.

I am realling hoping to hear from someone who has paired similar components in the configuration I have mentioned i.e Q6600 with 680i and single GTX with the gskill mem amd oced it to 3.0Ghz with stock cooling.. ( Ihave the ninja but it is a pain in the ass to mount! ) I mightget a thermatek 120 if I had to get a better cooling sol.

 

[crashthenet44]

I have posted this in some other threads here too.. but what I don't understand is the lack of love for hte E6850... maybe its just me but the idea of stock 3.0GHZ speed sounds apealing.

The 6850 gets no love because there is very little reason to justify it being a $100 more than a 6750. To me(and many others around here) the 400mhz difference in stock speed doesn't equate to the difference in price. Especially since the 6750 has already proven to be very good OC'er, or the Q6600 can be had for the same $$$$.

 

[tuksonrider]

I don't have the eVGA 680, but I do have the eVGA 650i.

That $65 G.Skill memory works fine in my motherboard. A cousin of mine bought it and wanted to test in in my system (he was having problems with his and wanted to check his memory). Anyway, it worked fine. Bios found it at it's default speed and it posted. Memtest ran fine.

 

[Dangman]

I have posted this in some other threads here too.. but what I don't understand is the lack of love for hte E6850... maybe its just me but the idea of stock 3.0GHZ speed sounds apealing.

Well think about it. The E6750 has a stock speed of 2.66Ghz, costs $189 and has been shown to be able to OC to 3.8 to 4.0GHz! The E6850 has a stock speed of 3.0Ghz, costs $280 and OC's about the same as the E6750, about 3.8Ghz to 4.0Ghz. For $90 less, you can get a CPU that OC's the same as the E6850 and use the leftover money to buy a good HSF that can help you E6750 hit 3.8Ghz to 4.0Ghz. With the stock HSF, the E6750 can hit to 3GHz to 3.2Ghz, easily catching up to the E6850.

I could take your advise and go with a Q6600 and if it is as easy to overclock as you say I should be able to bring it up to 3.0Ghz wtih memory you recommended ( man is that popular or what on newegg)

For overclocking the Q6600, you're gonna need a very very good HSF. In addition to the ones that tiraides recommended, I also recommend the following:
Thermalright Ultima-90 HSF - $46 & Panaflo FBA09A12M 92mm Fan - $3
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme HSF - $55 & Scythe S-Flex SFF21E 120MM Case Fan - $14

Also, make sure that the Q6600 you're getting is a G0 stepping and not a B3 stepping. The G0 runs cooler and therefore easier to OC.

I don't plan on using SLI but like the overall features of the board and don't mind having that option available. I don't plan on getting a moniter bigger than 24" but who knows...

Well what features do you like about the board?

I am also concerend about he GTX fitting in my Antec 180.. it is by far the biggest case I have had, so if it doesn't fit I don't know what else to do...

It'll fit. Just remove the upper hard drive bay and you'll be set. Just keep the hard drives in the lower hard drive bay.

I know my PSU isn't the best but it is several years old, I would think it would be enough to power a single card, although i can get a better one if I have to.

This is the PSU that you currently have, correct?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371001

If so, then I agree with Tirades about this. It's good enough to power your current/planned setup.

 

[Kasher_Khan]

Thanks all for the replies...

I am leaning towards the Q6600 (although I seriously doubt the market will mature fast enough to take advantage of the four cores )

I really like the EVA 680i platform

8800GTX single card can't be beat for value right now

Now I need to wait for crysis to come out ( hopefully the demo rolls around in a day or two ) to see how people with the above specs and similar systems are fairing.

I am planning on building my rig end of Nov. early Dec. Nov. Although I can't help but get the feeling that there will be some major technology changes in the 1st Q of 08. But then again most of the long awaited games are out this Nov. and no point in waiting for ever....

Note: By the way... If i wanted to sell my entire system in the sig, what would be a fair price for someone ? I was thinking $500 or so...

 

[Dangman]

I really like the EVA 680i platform

What is it about the 680i do you like?

I am planning on building my rig end of Nov. early Dec. Nov. Although I can't help but get the feeling that there will be some major technology changes in the 1st Q of 08. But then again most of the long awaited games are out this Nov. and no point in waiting for ever....

Now do know that the following is just gathered and culled from rumors and not based on real hard information. But Intel's new Yorkfield quad-core and Wolfdale dual-core CPUs are coming out in Q1 2008. However, early reports are saying that the Wolfdale CPUs will only be 3 to 5% faster clock for clock than current Intel C2Ds. Also, AMD and Nvidia are supposedly releasing their new video cards in Q1 08. Now remember that all of the above are just rumors and could possibly turn out to be wrong. But just thought you should know.

Oh and yes, this is a good time to build.

Note: By the way... If i wanted to sell my entire system in the sig, what would be a fair price for someone ? I was thinking $500 or so...

If it includes the OS, then $500 sounds about right.

 

[tiraides]

I've just checked out the specs to all of the boards in the EVGA 680i platform and the only features that stood out were:

• SLI
• Six SATA/300 ports
• Onboard RAID (0/1/0+1/5 JBOD)
• Dual Gigabit Ethernet ports

The only thing that I see in your benefit is price (The EVGA 122-CK-NF63-TR costs $155 at NewEgg), but if you really don't need these features, then you could go with the ABIT IP35-E or the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L... and both of them are under $100 each.

Again, what features do you like about the 680i platform?

 

[engiNURD]

I agree with everything thats been said so far.

Even if you do get a 24" LCD, a single vidcard could still handle that. Therefore, you don't need SLI nor the 680i platform. The P35 platform is actually more stable and can OC better. However, if you still want the 680i, I'm pretty sure the NQ sticks will work fine in it. Since you're getting a quad, make sure to get the NF68-A1 or T1, or else you won't be able to OC.

 

[tiraides]

I know my PSU isn't the best but it is several years old, I would think it would be enough to power a single card, although i can get a better one if I have to.

I missed that part earlier... that's a red flag. Since you are building a new system, get a new PSU. A good choice would be the Corsair HX620W ($140).

Also, are you going to buy a new hard drive, or do you plan on reusing your old one(s)?

 

[Kasher_Khan]

I know the PSU in my sig states Antec Neo HE 500... I actually got a Trio 650 last year when the first one died.

I do think the the PSU is a critical component since every problem I have had with a machine in the past had more or less lead to a cheap or faulty PSU. So I will take suggestions for that.

About the 680 boards... Not sure... I am just starting on my research, the problems I found with most other boards...

Not enough PCI slots ( I need to use atleast my Creative XFi and a Wirless Card if not build in, and there are very few boards that have it built in and if they do, it is for a huge premium)

Placement on Heatpipes that won't allow installation of after market HSF ( the ninja was a bitch to install I had cuts all over my hands and bleed over the mobo - I am thinking thermaltek 120 this time around )

The specs that I am looking for in a Mobo

supports the Core2 Duo, Quad CPU
SLI is a bonus although I am 100% sure I am never using it
alteast 2 available\usable PCI slots

I will be buying new HDDs (recommendations appericiated) _ I have like a 40GB IDE, 80GB IDe and 320GB sata besides the raptor. I am planning on getting rid of all of them and getting either two 500GB SATA for RAID (if I can sell my old system to get some extra cash)

I will defintely OC 400MHz or so to get to 3.0Ghz (I love that no. for some reason)
so the bios needs to be solid - loved my old DFI board for this

I have had bad experiences with ABit in the past but I think they make good boards just my luck

Note:- I know this sounds ridiculous but the color of the PCB is important too, there are too many ugly boards out there and that a turn off...

Lastly cable management with refference to a P180 is essential too even though I don't plan on cutting a windows in the side.

Thanks for the recommendations so far...I hope this thread is helping other people as much as it is helping me...

 

[MrWizard6600]

keep your current system, drop in an 8 series graphics card. Honestly the difference between a complete refresh and simply dropping in a new card is minimal.

 

[Kasher_Khan]

keep your current system, drop in an 8 series graphics card. Honestly the difference between a complete refresh and simply dropping in a new card is minimal.

Man... Don't say that... Thats like my worst nightmare...

That last thing I wanna do is spend $1500 bucks and find out that nothing changed besides my benchmark score!

I know that the 8800GTX itself is going to make a huge impact but...

the opty 148 is over two years old. I was thinking an overclocked Q6600 to lets say 3.0Ghz would surely be an improvement.

I have Vista Business 32bit in dual boot, and even though XP Pro runs fine, Vista is defintely is power hungry and it seems takes forever for the simplest of tasks ( now that might be a problem with vista) my point is if I do decide to play crysis in directx 10 I will have to use vista and so I am trying to justify the upgrades.

Also I am of the opinion that 2 yrs worth of progress in CPU, MOBO and MEM must have a visible impact.

but to your point bench marks in current games show that at res of 1600 by 1200 and highter the GPU is by far the biggest bottle neck! on the other hand I hear stories about how crysis is using all four cores for ai,physics and rendering etc.

THats one of the reasons I will wait a month or so for the people to compare the results, but at the same time I feel like is is time to upgrade !

 

[Kasher_Khan]

While I was searching I came across this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127288&Tpk=MSI+NX8800+Ultra+OC

Basically an MSI 8800 Ultra stock at 660Mhz for around $564 after rebates (if you believe in those )

Anyways.. I have had great experiences with EVGA in the past so I really like that brand.. and I am not too familiar with MSI... Also according to reviews the card runs hot (but then why won't it... its almost pushed 100Mhz there )

Although reviews show no real world gains in current games ( that is true for any ultra) I wanted to see what you guys thought about that.. its only like 35$ compared to the EVGA stock 8800 GTX I was considering.. and who know in Flight Sim X ( CPU and GPU hungry ) game it might actually make a difference...

Thoughts.......... ?

 

[Dangman]

The specs that I am looking for in a Mobo

supports the Core2 Duo, Quad CPU
SLI is a bonus although I am 100% sure I am never using it
alteast 2 available\usable PCI slots

Just about any P35/P965/680i/650i based mobo fit the first and last requirements. Do you have anything more specific? Like RAID, Dual NICs, firewire, overclock ability, stability, SATA ports, etc?

I will be buying new HDDs (recommendations appericiated) _ I have like a 40GB IDE, 80GB IDe and 320GB sata besides the raptor. I am planning on getting rid of all of them and getting either two 500GB SATA for RAID (if I can sell my old system to get some extra cash)

Note:- I know this sounds ridiculous but the color of the PCB is important too, there are too many ugly boards out there and that a turn off...

What a conceited little bastard. LOL! j/k!. Personally, I could care less about the looks of a mobo as long as it has the features I like but for some, like you, looks matter. With that, you may want to avoid gigabyte then because their colors are a slight turn-off to others.

Now that Ultra isn't a bad deal considering the rebate. Unfortunately, like the Mark's /HardOCP's review of it has said that there isn't a game right now that actually requires or uses the Ultra to its full potential. Crysis may change that. Since it is coming out next month, wait for it and then see if the benchmarks of that game actually show a need for Crysis.

 

[engiNURD]

Note:- I know this sounds ridiculous but the color of the PCB is important too, there are too many ugly boards out there and that a turn off...

So what color do you want? Gigabyte is blue, typically, with colorful interconnect housings. abit is usually dark blue. Asus is brown, usually, but black for high end boards. MSI is usually red or black.

Some people like the gigabyte colors, others hate it... so you gotta let us know what your taste is, lol.

 

[Kasher_Khan]

Just about any P35/P965/680i/650i based mobo fit the first and last requirements. Do you have anything more specific? Like RAID, Dual NICs, firewire, overclock ability, stability, SATA ports, etc?.

I am not building a buget machine here... so yes RAID, Dual NICs SATA are all important. Overclocking potential is huge. I wrote somewhere up there that the bios has to be very good and must have options to over clock. I love my DFI board for this reason.
Although I am not a fan of O.S based apps for ocing, UGURU from Abit is a neat utility as well.

What a conceited little bastard. LOL! j/k!. Personally, I could care less about the looks of a mobo as long as it has the features I like but for some, like you, looks matter. With that, you may want to avoid gigabyte then because their colors are a slight turn-off to others.

lolz........ I didn't say the color of the PCB is the most important factor, but it could be a tie breaker between two boards with similar features for somone like me. If you wanna know what really sounds crazy... is my friend who won't buy a board if he doesn't like the art on the box, (or for video cards if the logo on the HSF is not to his liking )...



Note: Ok.. I am that friend... Call me what you want.. Its my money...

Now that Ultra isn't a bad deal considering the rebate. Unfortunately, like the Mark's /HardOCP's review of it has said that there isn't a game right now that actually requires or uses the Ultra to its full potential. Crysis may change that. Since it is coming out next month, wait for it and then see if the benchmarks of that game actually show a need for Crysis.

Again I agree that there might be no benifit in getting the the Ultra right now.. but who knows...

 

[Kasher_Khan]

A lot of the boards in the $150 + range have similar features so it is hard to tell what I need.


The reason I loved my last board - DFI ULTRA D is because it had an awesome support community. The DFI boards are were filled with people that had similar boards and were willing to help out at each step of the way. So back then that became my choice.

I want a board that would work best with my components, the CPU and Graphics card are not a problem I wanna make sure the memory matches. The board has ocing potential. Good out of the box bios that I don't have to flash off the bat.

Good palcement of HSF so that it doesn't interfere with some of the huge aftermarket coolers I am considering for the CPU. the placement of the 24v connector matches my Antec P180 (PSU bottom desing)

A good diagnostic tools like visible LEDs, Trouble shooting screen always make life easier

Also minor touches like manual reset and power switches, reable connectors

Placement of molex connector on the Mobo for additional power is a big thing too, if you are trying to maitaing a neat case and all of sudden you have to have a wire go all the way acorss the board,under neath the hsf to a connector on the far end is a terrible idea.

I don't particularly care for oudated features like IDE drive connectors, Serial connectors etc.


Although I have repeatedly said that I do not intend on going the SLI route... I still do want to have an SLI board just in case I change my mind ( if so what I have noticed that most SLI board that have only two PCI slots... will have one blocked off by the dual slot video card like 8800 GTX and so you can either have an audio card or wifi which doens't make sense.. .also what is up with the PCI 1X 4X and !6X (non express) slots.. who uses these?

So there thats a little more speacific on what I need.

 

[engiNURD]

Although I have repeatedly said that I do not intend on going the SLI route... I still do want to have an SLI board just in case I change my mind ( if so what I have noticed that most SLI board that have only two PCI slots... will have one blocked off by the dual slot video card like 8800 GTX and so you can either have an audio card or wifi which doens't make sense.. .also what is up with the PCI 1X 4X and !6X (non express) slots.. who uses these?

You think those are PCI slots? They are PCI Express slots. All PCI slots are the same speed/length, generally speaking. PCI-E slots vary in size and performance. PCI-E is still very new, so there aren't many choices for cards right now... but there will be soon. Its replacing PCI, but the process is slow. Also, you don't need to use a PCI WiFi card. They have USB WiFi adapters as well as PCI-E 1x WiFi adapters.

Since you still want to keep SLI as an option, the best choice would be the eVGA 680i SLI NF68-A1, unless you want to wait for the 780i SLI boards.

Why do you want Dual NICs if you plan on using WiFi?

 

[Kasher_Khan]

.

Why do you want Dual NICs if you plan on using WiFi?

I have two other laptops that I have that I networked (wired) to my current machine for file and printer sharing etc.

PLus if I am buying a premium motherboard... why not?

But again it is not a deal breaker...

Also yes I could buy another adapter for wifi and yes I could use the internal audio which isn't bad I hear... But then again I am just giving my prefferences

 

[Dangman]

I have two other laptops that I have that I networked (wired) to my current machine for file and printer sharing etc.

Wouldn't it be easier to just buy a router?

Well since you want to keep SLI as an option even though you will never use it, go with the EVGA NF68-A1 or NF67-T1 (680i LT) boards. The EVGA boards are the most stable of 680i boards from I've read so far. And it does fit most of your requirements like having a debug LED, room for large HSF, etc It does have decent OCing ability but I think P35 based mobos are a bit a more stable when it comes to OCing.

But if SLI wasn't a requirement of yours, I'd definitely recommend the Abit IP35 Pro. It''s a very stable overclocker, has power and reset buttons, 3 PCI slots, and its a popular board here on the forums. Though the molex connector right above the 2nd PCI-E x16 slot might be a slight turnoff. But then again, there's a molex connector right next to the IDE port so you may not have to use the first mentioned molex connector.

 

[Kasher_Khan]

THanks for you replies guys!

I think I have a pretty clear idea of what to look into. I have narrowed it down to two or three choices and I will wait for a couple of weeks to see how things turn out.

Researching this stuff is half the fun... I just needed a sense of direction. I think I am all set.