Yet another stupid Microsoft Win 8 decision

Yeesh. I was wondering why they went to such lengths to add static analysis for C++ in both x86 and x64 in the free version of VS11. I thought Microsoft was being particularly generous there, and I was excited about the possibility of more developers taking advantage of those analysis tools. Now their intention is clear: they want Metro apps to shine. They want them to be rock-solid and stable. They do not want this for Classic apps.

Sure, VS10 Express is still there, but can that even target the new platform and its APIs? If not, this pretty much puts a bullet in my current project, or would at the very least require me to roll back to some of the older APIs. I'm not paying money to develop Win32 applications I have no intention to profit from — that's something I do for the benefit of others, including Microsoft.
 
I never thought I'd see the day when I agree with one of MrCrispy's posts on Windows 8 but put me too down in the column that thinks this is a dumb decision by Microsoft.
 
I'm forced to agree; this is a horrible decision. Looks like it's Metro, come hell or high water and damn what the consequences are.

That said, I can't wait to see why we're all wrong for thinking this is a horrible idea.
 
I'm not sure what the fuzz is about. Its not like you can't do anything in VS2010
 
Stoly said:
I'm not sure what the fuzz is about. Its not like you can't do anything in VS2010
Click to expand...
Besides a significant portion of the C++11 language and static analysis for 64-bit targets, yeah. Besides those things.
 
wonderfield said:
Besides a significant portion of the C++11 language and static analysis for 64-bit targets, yeah. Besides those things.
Click to expand...

Excuse me as I haven't written a line of code in decades, but there are thousands of applications developed in VS2010 for windows, and those will work on windows 8. And you can still use VS2010 to make applications for windows 8.

Now if VS2010 is discontinued well then...
 
Stoly said:
Excuse me as I haven't written a line of code in decades, but there are thousands of applications developed in VS2010 for windows, and those will work on windows 8. And you can still use VS2010 to make applications for windows 8.

Now if VS2010 is discontinued well then...
Click to expand...

But, thats ok now. But think of in 5 years time. I'm going to assume this will be the normal working model for VS going forward. 10 is going to become more and more irrelevant and lacking more and more features. Then what's left? Release Metro versions via this crappy "store" idea, or make outdated software?
 
MrCrispy said:
It's about Microsoft's new direction of abandoning the desktop...
Click to expand...

I don't see the desktop dying anytime soon..........and where one leaves, another can fill the gap.

There's a real opportunity here if someone would take advantage of it.
 
I only use VS for web development, does this mean no more ASP.NET and that we're stuck with just static HTML and JS?
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
I never thought I'd see the day when I agree with one of MrCrispy's posts on Windows 8 but put me too down in the column that thinks this is a dumb decision by Microsoft.
Click to expand...

+1 I have to agree with the Ars commenter:

This is the first real decision I can't get behind that Microsoft has made with regards to Windows 8.
Click to expand...

Thankfully, MS has flipped a 180.
 
The no desktop in VS Express was pretty stupid. I don't think it had any real deep impact but definitely a bad PR move. It definitely gives the appearance that Microsoft wants to kill the desktop and that really makes no sense, the Windows desktop is a huge competitive advantage for Microsoft. So a free dev tool is a much better deal than the PR hit. And a lot of hobbyists and educational institutions use these tools and you really don't want to disenfranchise young mind share.
 
One thing that Microsoft does have going for it is an army of developers and Visual Studio is a fantastic IDE, the main reason why Windows Phone, with the tine market share it has, has had incredible app growth.
 
I was going to freak out, but then saw they reversed that braindead move.
 
I think today's announcement shows that, far from turning a deaf ear to the complaints raging on the internet, Microsoft is listening and keeping track of the mood of the consumer base. Now they may not necessarily be agreeing with what people are saying and they certainly are not always changing their minds or backing down, but you can't say they have their heads in the sand.

None of the posters in this forum, however intelligent, have the access to the same level and scope of information that the management at Microsoft has. Remember the fuss when Microsoft killed off Drive Extender in WHS? Oh, the agony! What were they thinking? How could they be so stupid? And now, a few years later we have Storage Spaces, not just as a feature in WHS but baked into the core of Windows itself.

A perfectly rational decision may seem arbitrary or capricious to those who don't have all the information. Realizing that you don't know everything is the first step towards wisdom.
 
It's not really necessary that we know everything: we only need know what affects us. And, as a Visual Studio user, this decision was definitely going to affect me. What happens 'behind the scenes' could not be of less concern to me.
 
But aren't you glad that whatever it was that happened behind the scenes over the last few weeks resulted in Microsoft coming to their senses on this issue? ;)
 
I'm pretty sure there must have been vocal disagreement within DevDiv over this decision, and they were overruled by management. Finally they have fixed this, if there's one group MS can't afford to alienate its their developers :)
 
oh, no you have to pay $400 for a professional version of software :p

For the longest time VS was a paid program only and cost far more than just a few hundred. Then they released the express version for I think 2005, although it couldn't make win32 applications either. Only 2008 and 2010 have actually allowed you to do that, 2005 did if you screwed around with some settings to turn that feature back on, but it wasn't there by default. So they are taking out a feature again from the free version (which is for personal use) and going back to how it was a few versions ago. Doesn't seem bad to me. if you actually are a programmer and expect to release your software you are supposed to be using the professional version anyway. does kind of suck if you just like to tinker at home but I guess you just have to stick with the old version.
 
guess I should have read the other post to see that they changed their mind about that though before posting :(
 
Exavior said:
guess I should have read the other post to see that they changed their mind about that though before posting :(
Click to expand...

That was likely because some developers threatened to abandon *all* Windows development - that's something that the upper end of Microsoft doesn't want.

As much as we tend to think otherwise, at the core, Microsoft is *still* largely a developer-driven company (more to the point, a *Windows* developer-driven company); even when beaten out in terms of applications, Microsoft *still* wins because their developer tools (and especially Visual Studio) were used to create the software.

Lastly, like VS 2010 Express draws from the paid version of VS 2010 (specifically, 2010 Professional), VS 2012 Express will draw from VS 2012 Professional (and, to an extent, even from 2012 Ultimate - new is Team Foundation Server Express, which is exactly what it sounds like; teaming on projects for the garage/basement developer).

While there is no *beta* version of 2012 Express Desktop available yet, there *is* VS 2012 Ultimate Release Candidate to try out if you want a good idea of what VS 2012 Express will act like using the compilers it will support.
 
PGHammer said:
That was likely because some developers threatened to abandon *all* Windows development - that's something that the upper end of Microsoft doesn't want.
Click to expand...

lol, no. Devs go where the customers are. Trust me, if some cry baby wants to leave windows development, there are 100 that will gladly take his place. It was probably more along the lines of a cost/benefit of constant whining vs just releasing the damn thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top