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Yet another reason why <75Hz Refresh sucks

K

Komataguri

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
3,355
I can definately attest to it sucking.



I've been playing with a old Win98 Celeron 466Mhz system tonight, and the thing has been running at 60Hz refresh rate while I configured and troubleshooted the network connection, and started downloading the drivers.


Whooo, It does do a incredible strain on more then just your eyes.



I have a headache, I feel like I'm going to vomit, I feel slightly unbalance, and disoriented, and thats just the tip of the iceberg.



I'm suprise the FCC even allows monitors to run at 60 Hz, With the health risks like what I'm experiancing now.
 
Yea, low refersh rates give me not only headaches but infact migranes, I run 100hz on my amd.

The worst was when I was still in High school. 95% of the computers were at 60hz or lower... yes there were a few at 56hz
eek.gif
 
Some people don't have a problem with it. My friend ran a 15" monitor at 1024x768@60Hz for like 2 years and never had a problem. Me, personally, I couldn't stand it. 75Hz was tolerable, but anything lower and I felt like tearing out my eyes. That's partially why I went LCD. My eyes are pretty darn sensitive.
 
are you guys being serious? i've never been able to tell the difference...is it as noticeable as 30fps to 60fps?
 
I ran CRTs at 60hz for years until I started running at 85Hz. I've been doing so for about a year, and now if I go back to 60hz I get headaches and my eyes get sore. It seems that after you get used to the crisper refresh rate of 85Hz (or higher), something as low as 60Hz is hard for you to follow.
 
I cant tell the difference and my eyes thank me. Heck I cant see tearing @ 60hz with quake3 running 400+ fps. Although it is annoying to fly over items when hitting jumppads with fps so high.
 
Every time I up it over 60 my eyes start to hurt? Is it just because I'm used to 60? Been at 60hz for years, never really noticed or cared.

-wil
 
erf said:
are you guys being serious? i've never been able to tell the difference...is it as noticeable as 30fps to 60fps?
Click to expand...

he's talking about refresh rate not fps

i have never liked anyting below 70Hz, thw flicker from anyting less is distracting
 
I personally dont have an issue with anything 70Hz or higher, and 60Hz doesnt bother except after a few hours.
 
75hz only bothers me when I see my screen in my peripheral vision. However, anything less than that drives me crazy.

I can still see a very slight amount of flickering in my peripheral vision with 85hz (but it's hardly noticeable) and with 100hz I can see no evidence of flickering no matter how I look at my screen.
 
I used to run 60hz on my old monitor's during the P90 days

But after that i got up into the 75hz 85hz and higher

75hz and lower i feel like i want to puke...it hurts my eye's, hard to read, makes me dizzy, omfg i want to break a monitor that doesn't AT LEAST do 75hz or more.

Not only that florecent lights run at 60hz to...at least i think they do. has any ever looked at one and seen the refresh on it? My friend and i see it all the time we are around one.

I guess gamer eyes that are used to 85+ start to see slower refresh's :D
 
Yet another reason why <75Hz Refresh sucks

...except when it comes to LCD's. ;) No eye-strain, no geometry distortion, no bullshit. Just bliss. :cool:
 
I used to have a CRT and ran it at 85hz but still had eye problems, and if it was lower then 75 I wanted to puke. Now I gave that CRT to my dad, and got an LCD instead and even if I set that CRT to 800x600 and 120HZ I still want to puke, LCD > *
 
i have an old crt running 1280x1024 at 60. it doesnt give me a problem as far as headaches or eye pain, and i put in a lot of hours looking at the monitor between watching tv and normal computer stuff. if it would go up to 75 or 80, id do that but it only goes that high on 1024x768. might be time for an upgrade...
 
I get the same symptoms when using 60hz. Almost instantly i get a headache and my eyes start to hurt. I've noticed that on some monitors it isn't as bad, like the Dell monitors at Uni don't bother me at all at 60hz, but my Philips flatscreen CRT at home absolutely kills my eyes when it is in 60hz (like when reinstalling windows.....added nausium :p )

Shadow27
 
much higher than 75 really is a strain on my eyes. 60hz is really easy on my eyes, but it gives me a headache, makes me mad, and makes me sick.

My brother always has his monitor set to 60hz. I go to sit down on it, and it looks like a strobe light...
 
I can't stand CRTs, I went all LCDs three years ago and never looked back. The eye strain is just too much. I start tearing up after 10 minutes on a CRT.
 
I also see the flicker of Fluorescent lighting.



Its like Super Epilepsy Time when I walk into my local Super Market.


Its not just Peripherial vison, I see it in straight on vision.
 
I'm running at 60hz, when I put it to 75, I couldn't really tell the difference, but it was hurting my head, I can't really figure out why.
 
if you spend more than 2 hours a day on your computer & you use a CRT, you need to re-evaluate your priorities. lcd is the only way to go. your eyes will thank you.
 
It is my understanding that it is not sixty hertz rates specifically nor simply refresh rates less than seventy-five hertz, it's a multiple of 30 hertz above 1 that causes issue.

A friend of mine did some research at the University of Colorado Health and Science Center for a while trying to find out how, if the baud rate equivalent of an optic nerve is about 2400-3600, (no data handy to confirm this, just memory) do eyes and brains construct what we see into clearly much denser data.

What matters out of all that, was he had mentioned to me that eyes "capture" information about, on average, thirty times a second, i.e. 30Hz.

Now, why this makes headaches happen, I'm not sure. But if you could get a monitor to run 90Hz, I'm fairly certain you'll run into the same thing.

Also, American electricity, that is to say, A/C, alternates at 60Hz, which is why you can capture the pulses on fluorescent lights, and, incidentally, is why electrocution at 110v is, frankly, more leathal, because your body's heart currents shoot at about 60Hz. (I wonder if thirty hertz for vision has something to do with this.)

Finally, I have a theory that natural rythm, 4/4 time, can be taken advantage of to pwnzor n3wbs. I've played around with different music and Counter-Strike. Try a waltz, I shit you not, it can sometimes give the advantage of different movement. I can't bring myself to play to a metronome, however, though I believe a lot could be found out.
 
When I see a CRT running at 60hz I can most definately see it "flashing" and it gives me a massive headache. My friends and family say I am insane as they see no difference between 60 and 85hz. Anything below 75 is just bad bad bad.
 
I run at 60Hz all the time because any higher and it really makes this ghosting effect caused by my VGA switchbox really intense. I've gotten used to it I guess. I can sit all day in front of it and it won't bother me, though I guess if I focus on it I can kind of see the slightest of flickers. I'd like to run it at a higher rate... I might get an LCD soon which will solve the problem as they tend to have multiple inputs on them, thereby eliminating the need for this damn switchbox.
 
Ugh, I cannot stand my monitor at 60hz; my eyes hurt so bad. It took me a while to adjust to my refresh rate of 75 (the max my CRT can do at 1152x864).

Strangely, our PC's at school run at 60hz, and it does not effect me in the least. They give off none of the flicker that I usually see at that low of a refresh rate.
 
I've been running at 60 for like...ever and It doesn't bother me at all...
 
Vildayyan2003 said:
The flickering is FAR less noticeable under flourescent lighting (schools and such)
Click to expand...

Ah, thank you for clearing that up. It was bugging me most of the school year. Yes, my computer class was that boring.
 
Vildayyan2003 said:
When I see a CRT running at 60hz I can most definately see it "flashing" and it gives me a massive headache. My friends and family say I am insane as they see no difference between 60 and 85hz. Anything below 75 is just bad bad bad.
Click to expand...
My family thinks I'm crazy about things like this to. I can definitely see the flickering at 60Hz (and 75Hz for that matter) and they can't tell the difference. I notice the flickering of florescent lights to, but not that badly. One thing I cant stand is when you have a tv siting idle with no sound and you can hear that really high pitched screeching noise coming out of it. Me and my friends insist we hear it but my parents and several of my friend think I'm insane. It kinda freaks them out when I walk into a room and notify them that they accidentally left the tv on :).
 
The lowest my monitor can go is 60, and that makes my eyeballs feel like they are going to explode. I run it at 85mhz. Seems fine and dandy now.
 
I have the same problems as you, Flak. I cannot STAND the high pitched TV noise. My parents think I am nuts and hearing things. I also cannot stand movie theaters; I see every minute movement of the projector and the picture is always choppy. I can also hear my CRT monitor at times, which is so annoying, like right now...
 
heh, I hear the TV, but I haven't really had an occasion where someone thought I was wierd for not hearing it.

I don't really pay attention to my refresh rates, but since I normally run a pretty old comp (fx5200) at 12x10 or so, and on a monitor that's at least 3 years old, I assume the refresh rate is below 75. I just changed the refresh rate from "adapter default" (no clue what it is) to stuff like 60, 75, and 85. 85 and 75 looks really wierd. I think I'm one of the 60htz people. :p And I've been on the computer for 4 hours now. Maybe I should try to get used to higher hertz lol.
 
Russ said:
heh, I hear the TV, but I haven't really had an occasion where someone thought I was wierd for not hearing it.

I don't really pay attention to my refresh rates, but since I normally run a pretty old comp (fx5200) at 12x10 or so, and on a monitor that's at least 3 years old, I assume the refresh rate is below 75. I just changed the refresh rate from "adapter default" (no clue what it is) to stuff like 60, 75, and 85. 85 and 75 looks really wierd. I think I'm one of the 60htz people. :p And I've been on the computer for 4 hours now. Maybe I should try to get used to higher hertz lol.
Click to expand...


You have to readjust your monitors stretch and position every time you change to a refresh rate you rarely use. Thats what the buttons on the front of your monitor are for..
 
OMG...not 2 persons(twins ect. excepted) have the same kind of vision.
Some can easily work at 60Hz, and get not discomfort, others need 100Hz to feel no discomfort.
It's just like not all people see the flickering of flourcent light...

I don't see any flickering at 60 Hz, but I have a very high vision-sensing(don't know the proper english word) at 125%(I can see very fine details details) so my eyes don't like the LCD..it looks like a bunch of dots for me...the CRT gives me no such problem.

Terra - Stop thinking everyone is just like you!
 
the more i use my crt it gives me the worse headaches/dizziness.

i have a dual monitor setup and i use my LCD for all of my surfing and typing so that helps a lot. ive said it before.. LCDs are a godsend
 
I can't stand any refresh rate... CRTs even at 120hz make my eyes hurt after a while. I never used to get it until I switched to a 2005FPW.

Unfortunatly my monitor at work is a 21" CRT that runs @ 1600x1200 85hz. My boss knows that I can't stare at it too long so I get 10 minute breaks every hour.
 
60 Hz monitor give me really bad headache sometimes. However, I am on my dad's lcd monitor with 75 Hz and look fine to me lol. :p
 
I can't stand less then 72Hz refresh or the old T-12 fluorescents good thing I'm a project engineer for my company and in the middle of putting in the new T-8 fluorescents that refresh at 20kHz.
 
You guys miss an important factor in the equation.
There is a phosphor coating inside the tube, which is what you see glowing after it has been hit by the electron ray.
There are various types of coating. On a TV for example (old ones, without digital scan etc), a relatively slow coating is used, because the tube will only be used at 50 or 60 hz.
The same with old monitors. The flickering is not that obvious, but there are slight ghosting problems because of the slow glow.
On a monitor that needs to work at 120 Hz or more, a much faster coating has to be used. The advantage is that the ghosting problem is much smaller. The disadvantage is that the glow is too short to run at low refreshrates, because the flicker is so much more apparent now that the pixels glow for much shorter periods of time.

I still have some old VGA monitors around that won't go over 60 or 70 Hz. But they never gave me a headache, they have perfectly still images (just think about it, if 60 or 70 Hz really was that bad, then in the old days everyone had constant headaches? They didn't).
However, I also have a high-end 17" monitor, that goes up to 120 Hz, and that one is horrible in 60 or 70 Hz.

I hope the clueless myth will finally come to a halt.
 
Scali said:
You guys miss an important factor in the equation.
There is a phosphor coating inside the tube, which is what you see glowing after it has been hit by the electron ray.
There are various types of coating. On a TV for example (old ones, without digital scan etc), a relatively slow coating is used, because the tube will only be used at 50 or 60 hz.
The same with old monitors. The flickering is not that obvious, but there are slight ghosting problems because of the slow glow.
On a monitor that needs to work at 120 Hz or more, a much faster coating has to be used. The advantage is that the ghosting problem is much smaller. The disadvantage is that the glow is too short to run at low refreshrates, because the flicker is so much more apparent now that the pixels glow for much shorter periods of time.

I still have some old VGA monitors around that won't go over 60 or 70 Hz. But they never gave me a headache, they have perfectly still images (just think about it, if 60 or 70 Hz really was that bad, then in the old days everyone had constant headaches? They didn't).
However, I also have a high-end 17" monitor, that goes up to 120 Hz, and that one is horrible in 60 or 70 Hz.

I hope the clueless myth will finally come to a halt.
Click to expand...

Nice post..facts, not FUD :)

Terra...
 
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