Xbox Scorpio Spec Leak: ESRAM Gone, GPU Features Revealed

Megalith

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While the CPU architecture is still a mystery, we now know that the Scorpio will be dumping the Xbox One’s ESRAM configuration for GDDR5X or HBM2. Beyond the performance improvement, this decision will probably result in a much smaller die size, allowing for cheaper production and better yields (the accompanying photo shows just how much space ESRAM occupied in the original system). Also (re)confirmed is a six-teraflop GPU that makes Scorpio 4.5 times more powerful than the Xbox One. The whitepaper, however, would suggest that the new console is no different than the PS4 Pro, at least in terms of approach—while Forza is rumored to be a native 4K title, there is a lot of focus on various rendering and scaling tricks, which implies that hitting the UHD target, as you might have guessed, will be a typical struggle for developers. In fact, there are passages that strongly advocate the use of GPU power elsewhere.

…the in-depth discussion of techniques…may be suggesting that Scorpio isn't the 'true 4K' console that Microsoft marketed it as at E3 2016. But the practical reality is that the document confirms that at least one first-party 1080p title has transitioned relatively easily to native 4K (our best guess would be the Forza Motorsport engine is the technology in question here), and accepts the reality that GPU resources aren't always best spent on precision pixel-work at ultra HD resolutions. Of course, the reality is that the techniques outlined in the whitepaper have been battle-tested by PlayStation 4 Pro. Titles like Rise of the Tomb Raider, Horizon Zero Dawn and Days Gone have validated sparse/checkerboard rendering up to 2160p, while Call of Duty Infinite Warfare employs virtually all the techniques Microsoft discusses in some way, shape or form. Scorpio's additional horsepower - combined with more developer experience by the time it launches - should also lead to fewer of the basic 1440p ports we've seen on PS4 Pro.
 
From the looks they use 384bit GDDR5(x).

Also the mention of VR is gone.
 
Looking forward to it. Most likely, I will buy the day one edition but, there had better be a camera setup available with it because that is what I use with Skype on my XBox One.
 
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The loss of ESRAM is going to kill legacy consoles; wanna bet Devs stop optimizing memory usage as much?
 
I was really hoping for something that would one-two punch the PS4 Pro in terms of horsepower, but it just looks to match it.

The PS4 Pro does 4k about as well as the Xbone does 1080p...
 
I was really hoping for something that would one-two punch the PS4 Pro in terms of horsepower, but it just looks to match it.

The PS4 Pro does 4k about as well as the Xbone does 1080p...
It is going to be almost 50% more powerful then the pro. The pro is around 4 teraflops.
 
The CPU will still be the biggest bottleneck. The 12GB memory will also make PC VRAM need balloon again.

The PS4 Pro does 4k about as well as the Xbone does 1080p...

Yep, 4K consoles is still a dream.
 
It is going to be almost 50% more powerful then the pro. The pro is around 4 teraflops.

In the real world teraflops mean sh...t. Its like comparing horsepower.

esram castrated the xboxone at 1080p so going with GDDR5 (x) alone would give a huge performance boost. There are plenty of arquitechtural advantages from polaris/Vega so 3x performance is realistic IMO.

I expect it to be faster than the PS4 pro but not by much.
 
I enjoy my ps4 pro. I never really played the vanilla ps4 but the only game I have that utilizes it (i only own 3 games, Destiny, FFXV and Dragonquest builders) is FFXV. I play on a 55" 1080 TV and my choice is 1080p 60fps over the increased details. So much more crisp of a playing experience.
 
While the CPU architecture is still a mystery, we now know that the Scorpio will be dumping the Xbox One’s ESRAM configuration for GDDR5X or HBM2.

Where did you get HBM2 from in the original article? They mention 320GB/sec. And from the render there is 12 chips. Even GDDR5X is very unlikely unless memory ends up as 8 or 16GB.

The whitepaper we've seen - dated to just after Scorpio's E3 reveal - only confirms no ESRAM, boosted L2 cache and support for memory compression technology. Beyond that, all we have to go on is Microsoft's stated 320GB/s bandwidth, eight CPU cores - plus a motherboard rendering strongly suggesting 12GB of GDDR5 memory.
 
Makes me glad I've been holding off on a new GPU purchase. Since most games are console ports, and lazy ones at that, seems like were gonna need a pile of video memory in the next couple years.
 
Probably won't notice much difference for the first year or two. I would imagine that 3-4 years down the road they'll gradually start reducing support for the original XBOne

I still think that they're approaching this from the wrong side. They are getting all hung up on 4K when they should be focusing on getting it to 60+ FPS at 1080p/1440p.
 
Probably won't notice much difference for the first year or two. I would imagine that 3-4 years down the road they'll gradually start reducing support for the original XBOne

I still think that they're approaching this from the wrong side. They are getting all hung up on 4K when they should be focusing on getting it to 60+ FPS at 1080p/1440p.
I think the problem with that reasoning lies in the adoption rate of 4K TVs and 4K/HDR content.
 
Makes me glad I've been holding off on a new GPU purchase. Since most games are console ports, and lazy ones at that, seems like were gonna need a pile of video memory in the next couple years.

How's the conventional wisdom holding that 4GB is plenty enough for 1080p gaming? Maybe not at Ultra settings, I would be looking at an 8GB card then (6 at the MINIMUM), but for someone on a budget rig and not expecting all the eye candy on the max, we should still be good with 4GB, no?
 
I think the problem with that reasoning lies in the adoption rate of 4K TVs and 4K/HDR content.

Are you suggesting that the adoption rate is good or that it's poor?

From a business/marketing standpoint I definitely understand why they are playing up 4K.
 
How's the conventional wisdom holding that 4GB is plenty enough for 1080p gaming? Maybe not at Ultra settings, I would be looking at an 8GB card then (6 at the MINIMUM), but for someone on a budget rig and not expecting all the eye candy on the max, we should still be good with 4GB, no?

Depends on how the trend goes imo. I'm still gaming at 1080, and am pulling around 45-50fps average in WD2 at high/very high, other games run much better, but if you give a lazy dev 12GB to play with, they're gonna use every drop instead of being efficient with the code. I have a feeling that since the ps4 pro is running 8gb, were gonna have another jump like what happened after Shadow of Mordor, and 6GB is going to be the minimum.
 
Depends on how the trend goes imo. I'm still gaming at 1080, and am pulling around 45-50fps average in WD2 at high/very high, other games run much better, but if you give a lazy dev 12GB to play with, they're gonna use every drop instead of being efficient with the code. I have a feeling that since the ps4 pro is running 8gb, were gonna have another jump like what happened after Shadow of Mordor, and 6GB is going to be the minimum.

Heck, if 12Gb of GDDR5X gets these developers to stop using textures that are made for 640x480, I'd be OK with it.

Access to more memory will do a lot for open-world games. Less disappearing cars/sims when you turn your back, less muddy textures, and probably just an overall better experience.
 
Of course it isn't capable of 4k. It's a 6 teraflop AMD GPU, same as the RX-480. We know the 480 can't do 4K.

In fact, even the 1070 and 1080 can't really do 4K, not in modern games at high framerates and image quality. Not without "tricks".

So yeah. Just like the PS4 Pro, the Xbox Scorpio will do 4K with tricks. Upscaling, cheating rendering techniques, etc.
 
Of course it isn't capable of 4k. It's a 6 teraflop AMD GPU, same as the RX-480. We know the 480 can't do 4K.

In fact, even the 1070 and 1080 can't really do 4K, not in modern games at high framerates and image quality. Not without "tricks".

So yeah. Just like the PS4 Pro, the Xbox Scorpio will do 4K with tricks. Upscaling, cheating rendering techniques, etc.
Depends on how the trend goes imo. I'm still gaming at 1080, and am pulling around 45-50fps average in WD2 at high/very high, other games run much better, but if you give a lazy dev 12GB to play with, they're gonna use every drop instead of being efficient with the code. I have a feeling that since the ps4 pro is running 8gb, were gonna have another jump like what happened after Shadow of Mordor, and 6GB is going to be the minimum.

Lol, these two quotes showcase quite different POVs. Every "optimization" is a "cheat."
 
Where did you get HBM2 from in the original article? They mention 320GB/sec. And from the render there is 12 chips. Even GDDR5X is very unlikely unless memory ends up as 8 or 16GB.

I carried it over from this OC3D article.

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/systems/new_xbox_one_project_scorpio_specs_have_been_leaked/1

The most likely candidates here for Project Scorpio is HBM2 or GDDR5X, offering a lot more pure performance than DDR3 and GDDR5, though at this time HBM memory has never been used outside of enthusiast-grade PC gaming GPUs, making GDDR5X more likely.
 
Lol, these two quotes showcase quite different POVs. Every "optimization" is a "cheat."
Either you're running at true 4k, 3840x2160 pixels, or you're not. Neither the PS4 Pro nor the Xbox Scorpio have enough juice to do that in modern games at high image quality and framerates.
 
The CPU will still be the biggest bottleneck. The 12GB memory will also make PC VRAM need balloon again.



Yep, 4K consoles is still a dream.

Depends on how the trend goes imo. I'm still gaming at 1080, and am pulling around 45-50fps average in WD2 at high/very high, other games run much better, but if you give a lazy dev 12GB to play with, they're gonna use every drop instead of being efficient with the code. I have a feeling that since the ps4 pro is running 8gb, were gonna have another jump like what happened after Shadow of Mordor, and 6GB is going to be the minimum.
Remember that it's still using UMA, and it reserves a certain amount of memory for the OS and other functions. It's around 2GB on the current XBONE depending on the developer. The other 5-6GB needs to be split between VRAM and other needs.
 
That article is detailing basically nothing. and this part" Titles like Rise of the Tomb Raider, Horizon Zero Dawn and Days Gone have validated sparse/checkerboard rendering up to 2160p" Um well 2 of those game aren't released yet so they for sure haven't been validated or battle tested, only possibly implemented.

People are forgetting that this is maybe the first console generation were the 2 main players are both selling at a profit since launch, and for sure it is the first time both have a low cost x86 processor at their core. Any upgraded console for either company was never about making a high-end 4K capable console, it was to implement a low-cost 4K capable version of what they were already selling.

Streamlining the designs and dumping ESRAM are cost cutting moves first, not performance ones, at this point it costs less to move to a more widely adopted option like GDDR5X or like HBM2 will be soon and it catches Microsoft up to where PCs were when they first announced Scorpio sorta, a machine almost capable to game at 4K in some games but overall not capable of doing it in every game and not doing 4K@60Hz.

I don't understand how some many console gamers and Xbox fans thought that the Scorpio was going to be some sort of super duper 4K gaming endgame box versus a move from Microsoft to do have a mid-cycle upgrade option for gamers buying UHD TVs while turning a good profit.

One upside for the Scorpio now is the possibility of some interesting HoloLens possibilties to help push VR gaming to the masses and maybe to hold off Sony as console buyers turn to the newer options from Microsoft.
 
One upside for the Scorpio now is the possibility of some interesting HoloLens possibilties to help push VR gaming to the masses and maybe to hold off Sony as console buyers turn to the newer options from Microsoft.

Hololens isn't VR, and it's deader than a doornail after MS failed to attract any dev interest. The mailslot FOV is mainly what did it in.

You're right though, it's a cost cutting refresh, not a next gen box. Scorpio will not have any exclusives, so it'll run the same games as the anemic Xbox One but hopefully will finally exceed 720p30.
 
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You think it costs less to move to GDDR5X or HBM2 than DDR3? No way, man-- and that will not be the case in Q4 either. Maybe sometime in 2018, maybe not.

Moving to DDR4 definitely makes sense today. GDDR5 is an attractive choice as it allows MS to save space on the chip from ESRAM.

The Xbone S and PS4 Slim are cost-saving refreshes. They have a lower BOM than the consoles they replaced. The BOM for the PS4 Pro is higher than the PS4 Slim, and the Xbone Scorpio will be higher than the Xbone S.

What determines "next-gen"? The Scorpio's GPU is 4.5 times faster than the Xbone. That isn't enough for you? Consoles will never change architectures again. Backwards-compatibility will be ensured forever. If you're expecting an ARM console with Adreno graphics or whatever, that will never happen. Consoles are commodity PCs wrapped around semi-custom APUs now.

(The Switch doesn't count.)
 
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