xbitlabs about input lag

in a FPS, you can easily feel the difference of 50ms worth of lag.
 
"B) A lag of this value cannot be noticed at ordinary work or in movies. It may make a difference in games for well-trained gamers, but wouldn’t matter for most other people even in games."

Notice the "well-trained" statement he uses. That basically translates to "skilled" gamers in my book. I, for one, can tell the difference between 20ms lag and 80ms very easily in a fps. That often means the difference between life and death against another skilled player. Rainbow Six: Raven Shield is a perfect example. It is basically one shot-one kill, so that 50ms of lag is going to get you killed every time you are up against an equally skilled player.
 
I love this line:

"Any person who’s ever taken an interest in the activities of UFO researchers and other folks of that kind will tell you that most of their alleged discoveries are the result of thinking out excessively complex theories instead just looking for simple, earthly explanations of phenomena."

:)
 
He's not taking into account cumulative lag from other source - network lag for example. If you have 50 ms latency to the game server, and your monitor has 50 ms lag, you will have 100 ms total lag! You are SCREWED!
 
shifty803 said:
"B) A lag of this value cannot be noticed at ordinary work or in movies. It may make a difference in games for well-trained gamers, but wouldn’t matter for most other people even in games."

Notice the "well-trained" statement he uses. That basically translates to "skilled" gamers in my book. I, for one, can tell the difference between 20ms lag and 80ms very easily in a fps. That often means the difference between life and death against another skilled player. Rainbow Six: Raven Shield is a perfect example. It is basically one shot-one kill, so that 50ms of lag is going to get you killed every time you are up against an equally skilled player.
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Lol - here are some vids of kid wit skilz video taping his 215tw. These are maybe vid reviewer mention in review. Must be A LOT semi pro kids out there because I heard a lot of people complain about lag with this monitor. I already have input lag with wirless mouse (soon to hit the trash) and its pesky thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVqdrz73dGU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC4gCre1xrA

Good thread here:
http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51193
 
Rectal Prolapse said:
He's not taking into account cumulative lag from other source - network lag for example. If you have 50 ms latency to the game server, and your monitor has 50 ms lag, you will have 100 ms total lag! You are SCREWED!
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Yes and calculation time on the computer, i wonder if its only one frame delay or if it goes through stages wich could mean another 50ms and then some mouse lag...

And i dont think his argument about reaction time is relevant, there is a big difference between reacting to something and just noticing or feeling a delay.

Besides even if the problem would be small as it might be with a 20ms delay i still see no reason to handicap the displays since there is no technical reason why there should be a delay in lcd's, it seems to me its just a result of a careless design of the electronics and dsp.
 
I had a dell 2407WFP and I noticed the input lag on it. But when I spent a good deal of money and bought a 40 inch LCD Tv to use as a PC monitor I have no input lag at all, none. I was expecting to be much worse and to have to stop playing CS:S in my clan, But I am back to playing as good as I did on CRT.
 
malcolm said:
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-parameters_7.html

this isnt going to help us get lcd's without input lag...:mad:
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The article is suspect,I have played on many LCD screens over the last 4 years,and most have it,to one degre or another.The 215 is worse then most for games.930B not so bad,
2005FPW so so.LG 1750S excellent ! LG 1715SK excellent as well.Hyundai L90 is ok,its there but minimal,no where near the lag of the 215,thats for sure. I prey my 2407 is not
plagued with it.
 
just as all online review sites now...The manufacturer probably game them $$$ and a few monitors to help cover up this BIG problem.. ALL online review sites take bribes to hide the truth, or flat out lie for a $.
 
You might be right. I know reviews are getting harder to have any confidence in. I bought my Asus P5WDH in Sept. after reading several glowing reviews that made mobo seem like board of the century. Then it wasn't booting for people who bought it because bios didn't support retail Conroes (only the "engineering samples" Asus had used). After weeks of ruckus problem got fixed with new bios. Then in Nov there were reviews saying my Asus board wasn't ready for prime time - but they did tests using old bios. Go figure.
 
abcdelight, that is how I felt when I bought my Gigabyte DQ6 motherboard. Ugh, still buggy as heck. :(

Monitor reviews are much much much better than a few years ago - they were useless back then! Horribly awfully useless! Ugh. Les Numeriques needs an english version though - their monitor comparison table is incredibly useful!

I detect some input lag on the Dell 1905s - we game at lunchtime at work and the guys with the CRTs always get the first shot when we round the corner at the same time - flak cannons hurt at point blank. :)
 
That read more like an opinion piece than anything. Some facts were presented at the front (the input lag measurements), but what followed was essentially a bunch of the author's opinions about input lag, and other possible causes for what people are blaming on input lag. Granted, all of those are certainly possibilities, but that doesn't prove that input lag is insignificant. I will agree that in an office (or non-gaming) situation, input lag is far less noticeable, probably enough to ignore, depending on the person.

I have a Dell 2001fp at home and at work, and i can say that even my tiny 15" super cheap LCD has little or no input lag compared to it. Everything "feels" sharper on the 15" where mouse movement is concerned. I've tried the window moving trick on an extended desktop, and the Dell has an easily noticeable delay. Gaming on the Dell was annoying, even coming from a CRT that was exactly the same resolution. Going back to a CRT removed the lag, and the world was ok again. =P
 
Well I thought that the 100mz monitors would fix this. BUT after seeing the pics its not much better than the 60mhz ones we have now. I could not find any info if this CAN be fixed.

BUT I know that I have one that is supposed to be the 2nd fastest with input lag <20ms and it still sucks against a crt. And it puts my 22in to shame....not sure how slow the 22 is but in fps games you are screwed.
BAD thing is the people who post oh mine is 5ms..NO U IDIOT we are not talking that.
why I frag all the loosers on my 5ms and I have no lag....the lag is between your ears stupid.

and to have a monitor that is slower than your internet connection sucks big time...but you aren't going to get rid of it I guess....screw the people sell more of this same old same old we make money and don't care, word won't slow down because of this.
(probably a $2 fix if the truth be known)


beast I have 2 people at work that have dell monitors....BOTH of them say this doesn't happen to dell monitors...I tried to explain it to them and they said that Dell's do have this problem...
I said is it dell or DUH or DOH....they didn't get that either
 
I have seen it, felt it and measured it. It is real and problematic IMO. It is not simply someones imagination. Like many LCD issues, some people notice it, some don't.

I had two PVA monitors that lagged and one TN that doesn't, this is comparing to 21" trinitron CRT running 1600x1200. Hooking up the first PVA screen it felt like I was dragging my mouse through molasses. I never heard of lag before noticing it. Later I got a TN screen where I felt no lag at all. I took pictures of side by side screens TN vs CRT. Verifying the The TN lag at 0-16ms, essentially none. I no longer have the PVA screens because I couldn't stand them for a number of reasons (Lag, viewing angle anomalies, smearing...).
 
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