Xbit Labs CS Source Benches

[DemonDiablo]

You know, the funny thing is that when the actual benchmarks are out and if the x800 xt pe does command a good lead. Some people will fall back on the CS:S and leaked hl2 code benchmarks and ask why those results show a different scenario than the actual game benchmarks themselves (totally ignorant of the fact that the cs:s benchmarks are of a different game and the leaked alpha benchmarks are from a point in the games design when it wasnt even close to being half way finished).

While its true that CS:S is a "totaly different game" it shares the same exact engine as HL2 so one cant help but to come up with an educated guess as to what HL 2 will be like after playing CS:S now can they?

 

[gordon151]

While its true that CS:S is a "totaly different game" it shares the same exact engine as HL2 so one cant help but to come up with an educated guess as to what HL 2 will be like after playing CS:S now can they?

Yeah if they think every game based off the source engine will perform generally the same, sure.

 

[rancor]

You know, the funny thing is that when the actual benchmarks are out and if the x800 xt pe does command a good lead. Some people will fall back on the CS:S and leaked hl2 code benchmarks and ask why those results show a different scenario than the actual game benchmarks themselves (totally ignorant of the fact that the cs:s benchmarks are of a different game and the leaked alpha benchmarks are from a point in the games design when it wasnt even close to being half way finished).

I explained this to you earlier......

 

[rancor]

Yeah if they think every game based off the source engine will perform generally the same, sure.

Differences in performance don't vary much unless parts of the engine are changed between games using the same engine. Now since there is only one set of DLL that CS: Source and HL2 use well kinda leads to around at most a 5% swing. Unless they have special shaders in HL 2 that perform better on ATi cards.

 

[pahncrd]

Yeah if they think every game based off the source engine will perform generally the same, sure.

Maybe so, but they will probably scale in a similar fashion between cards.

 

[GoatMan]

Yea but when you buy an X800Pro in hopes of modding it to an X800XT you have to realize there is a chance it wont work and that the card wont be able to operate at XT frequencies. I mean, you have to stop and wonder why the card was sold as an X800Pro TIVO to start with if it was perfectly able to operate as an XT and sell for $100 more.

I gave a reason... whether or not that reason had risk had nothing to do with it.

 

[gordon151]

Differences in performance don't vary much unless parts of the engine are changed between games using the same engine. Now since there is only one set of DLL that CS: Source and HL2 use well kinda leads to around at most a 5% swing. Unless they have special shaders in HL 2 that perform better on ATi cards.

Do you really know what you are saying? There are going to be gross differences with what is done with the source engine in half-life 2 than there is with what was done in the counterstrike port. It's ridiculous to think relative performance will be similar in with the two games. A 9800XT will more than likey not be keeping up with a x800 Pro in half-life 2 (like it does in many situations on CS:S). It's just plain ridiculous to insinuate that that x card performs at this relative level to y card in cs:s, so that means it will perform at that same level in half-life 2 and bloodlines. Relative performance can even grossly vary depending on where you are in the same game much less two different ones.

 

[Warhorse]

did you know bloodlines will be an "nvidia the way its ment to be played" game.

 

[Mr Mean]

Then why were a whole lot of ATI fans saying they went with ATI cards because they wanted the fastest card for CSS? I distinctively remember them saying that every fps counts.

So tell me again why ANYONE would currently buy an X800Pro over a 6800GT?

You have answered your own question. They are ATI !!!!!!s If you're just want the best bang for the buck, it's the 6800 GT. Also you get PS 3.0 which you can't get with x8xx series. I jump sides all the time I have no loyality towards any company.

 

[rancor]

Do you really know what you are saying? There are going to be gross differences with what is done with the source engine in half-life 2 than there is with what was done in the counterstrike port. It's ridiculous to think relative performance will be similar in with the two games. A 9800XT will more than likey not be keeping up with a x800 Pro in half-life 2 (like it does in many situations on CS:S). It's just plain ridiculous to insinuate that that x card performs at this relative level to y card in cs:s, so that means it will perform at that same level in half-life 2 and bloodlines. Relative performance can even grossly vary depending on where you are in the same game much less two different ones.

Ah yes if it was only 1 game, but take a look at all the dx games its happening the same way....

And Vampire Bloodlines is in the way it is to be played well there ya go that could be the reason why nV has improved its performance for HL2, oh btw they could have tweaked thier drivers just by the VST they don't need the full game, just the engine and anything running on it.....

 

[MFZ]

I have had a BFG 6800 Ultra OC on order at Fry's for over month now and they STILL dont know when it will be in.

And the price IS $499. HERE

Fry's = www.outpost.com

Nope, Fry's and outpost aren't the same. Owned by the same company but their prices and product availability are completely different.

 

[rancor]

Nope, Fry's and outpost aren't the same. Owned by the same company but their prices and product availability are completely different.

Hey just checked the older drivers today, yes there is texture shimmering with ut 2003, the newer drivers it is still there but its very hard to notice depending on which angle you are looking at, so its probably a work in progress thing for nV probably something to do with thier angle dependent af.

 

[quicksilverXP]

I have the X800VIVO and the 6800 Ultra.... and the 6800 Ultra performs MUCH better at Doom 3. Whoever said that the newest ATI drivers make the X800 within arms reach of the 6800 series is trippin... and I've tried almost every ATI driver imaginable.... not only that.... these beta drivers make Doom 3 crash a lot.

So my thoughts are since the 6800 Ultra seems to perform admirably in ATI's game, and since the X800XT performs horribly in Doom 3, Nvidia is doing things right this time around... I just wish they would release a magic hotfix like ATI did for 3dMark05

 

[obs]

Do you really know what you are saying? There are going to be gross differences with what is done with the source engine in half-life 2 than there is with what was done in the counterstrike port. It's ridiculous to think relative performance will be similar in with the two games. A 9800XT will more than likey not be keeping up with a x800 Pro in half-life 2 (like it does in many situations on CS:S). It's just plain ridiculous to insinuate that that x card performs at this relative level to y card in cs:s, so that means it will perform at that same level in half-life 2 and bloodlines. Relative performance can even grossly vary depending on where you are in the same game much less two different ones.

Performance will still be similiar. Just look at just about the most used engine out there, the Quake3 engine. Performance up and down the line for Q3 engine games is fairly similiar.

 

[The Batman]

Performance will still be similiar. Just look at just about the most used engine out there, the Quake3 engine. Performance up and down the line for Q3 engine games is fairly similiar.

Yup and the Q3 engine has the short-coming of aging a few years which adds even more variable's to the equation. CCS/VtMB/HL2 do not suffer from that failing.

If people are expecting the Pro to blow the GT out of the water in HL2 they will be sorely mistaken, much to my glee.

 

[^eMpTy^]

You know, the funny thing is that when the actual benchmarks are out and if the x800 xt pe does command a good lead. Some people will fall back on the CS:S and leaked hl2 code benchmarks and ask why those results show a different scenario than the actual game benchmarks themselves (totally ignorant of the fact that the cs:s benchmarks are of a different game and the leaked alpha benchmarks are from a point in the games design when it wasnt even close to being half way finished).

Actually if the xtpe commands a good lead, I'll just call it the "press edition" and leave it at that...since the card has been replaced by the vanilla XTs anyways...the xtpe was never more than a marketing stunt...

 

[DemonDiablo]

Actually if the xtpe commands a good lead, I'll just call it the "press edition" and leave it at that...since the card has been replaced by the vanilla XTs anyways...the xtpe was never more than a marketing stunt...

Ive been looking for a new sig for sometime now. I think I just found it

sigged

 

[HeavenX]

X-bit labs: We did not disable any texture filtration optimization from NVIDIA’s or ATI’s drivers.

They should disable the opts and show those benchmarks too...

 

[OriginalReaper]

X-bit labs: We did not disable any texture filtration optimization from NVIDIA’s or ATI’s drivers.

They should disable the opts and show those benchmarks too...

I agree, or at least enable full trilinear on Radeons.

 

[Moloch]

Huh?
Last I heard, the X800 did better fake tri vs the 6800.
Whatever though, ill get whatever card is cheaper, since any games where the GT"owns" the X800 are Q3 engined games so the difference is nothing(even less since I game with vsync on) or I don't play those games, or beat them with my pos 8500(doom3).
I will prolly play through doom3 again, but with god mode etc again to see doom3 in all its pitch dark goodness.

 

[HeavenX]

I believe that if ati made a real driver where opts could be turned off 100% it would be far behind against 6800 with opts off...Ati claims that there is no difference bla bla bla I dont care what they say show me the real stuff ATI...

 

[Moloch]

I believe that if ati made a real driver where opts could be turned off 100% it would be far behind against 6800 with opts off...Ati claims that there is no difference bla bla bla I dont care what they say show me the real stuff ATI...

I suggest you get with the times young padawon, ati's latest drivers let you turn off everything.

 

[rancor]

I suggest you get with the times young padawon, ati's latest drivers let you turn off everything.

No it doesn't there are still angle dependent aa and af which is part of ATi's hardware

 

[gordon151]

Yeah you cant turn off the angle dependant aa.

 

[rancor]

Doesn't really matter these cards are so close in performance now it isn't even funny, I'm just amazed how close they are.

 

[Moloch]

No it doesn't there are still angle dependent aa and af which is part of ATi's hardware

Why even meantion that then?

You have got to be kidding me, it's part of nvidias also
You are quite hilarious with your "piss on anything ati" antics.
I mean any educated person wouldn't meantion angle dependmant AF(AA? wtf.. ati owns nvidia in anti aliasing supersamping mix not counting) since it's a well known fact that both venders do that.
It might have been a valid comment if it was 8500 vs GF3, but now it's just dumb.

 

[rancor]

Why even meantion that then?

You have got to be kidding me, it's part of nvidias also
You are quite hilarious with your "piss on anything ati" antics.
I mean any educated person wouldn't meantion angle dependmant AF(AA? wtf.. ati owns nvidia in anti aliasing supersamping mix not counting) since it's a well known fact that both venders do that.
It might have been a valid comment if it was 8500 vs GF3, but now it's just dumb.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings

I was just stating they can't be all turned off plus the fact ATi's af is still more optimized then nV and is very noticable they are doing it depending on the variances of the applications. Up to a certain point ATi's opts for AF can't be turned off, If they were turned off through the CCC and not through the registry.

 

[Moloch]

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings

I was just stating they can't be all turned off plus the fact ATi's af is still more optimized then nV and is very noticable they are doing it depending on the variances of the applications.

You didn't hurt my feelings, it just seemed like you are using the old nvidiot antics, and me being an ati fan have to clear things up.
I agree with AF being better, but angle dependmant AA, never heard of it.
If there was a problem with the AA, ati could easily fix it with their programable AA though

 

[rancor]

Its not a problem with their AA, Angle dependent AA can't be turned off period on ATi's cards.. nV can at least I think they can they sure get a hit when their AA opts are off. ATi's doesn't get the same hit. And nV's AA opts on perform better then ATi's AA by far. But nV regular AA modes don't look as good.

 

[Moloch]

Its not a problem with their AA, Angle dependent AA can't be turned off period on ATi's cards.. nV can at least I think they can they sure get a hit when their AA opts are off. ATi's doesn't get the same hit. And nV's AA opts on perform better then ATi's AA by far. But nV regular AA modes don't look as good.

I assume you guys meant AF.
I am quite surprised this round nvidia didn't do anything with regards to higher multisample modes, the super sampling mixed modes just seem like a hack thing they threw together, like with the geforce2 and voodoo5, but it is better now that 8x AA is 4MSAA and 2 SS, but I'd rather have 8X MSAA, but SS is good for texture aliasing, on racing games or old games(cpu dependance..) turning on 2x AA on my 8500 and maybe lowering the res to 800x600 provided a better gaming experence than even 1152x864(highend rez with 75HZ refresh).
Is there something nvidia needs to do with their hardware to do higher AA modes or what?
So you can 100% certain you can disable angle dependant AF?

 

[rancor]

opps got side tracked with AA for a bit there lol,I think they need to optimize it more, ATi has done a great deal of work with AF and damn good quality with the speed. Their architecture might be better suited for it. Hard to say exactly why ATi's AF pefromance is so good. But has to do something with thier architecture. Not saying its cheating because it doesn't detract from the IQ or change it in anyway.

 

[gordon151]

You didn't hurt my feelings, it just seemed like you are using the old nvidiot antics, and me being an ati fan have to clear things up.
I agree with AF being better, but angle dependmant AA, never heard of it.
If there was a problem with the AA, ati could easily fix it with their programable AA though

What you never heard of angle dependant aa ??!? Depending on where you look, it only renders aa at a certain angle .

 

[HeavenX]

I noticed that ati uses more fog and higher lod in games then nvidia. I noticed this in battlefield and bf.v vietnam games.

 

[Silverghost]

What you never heard of angle dependant aa ??!? Depending on where you look, it only renders aa at a certain angle .

Dude! Only do 2xAA at 45 degree angles and do 6xAA on all the narrow angles with 4xAA somewhere in the middle. That would work awesome a 10x7 and 12x9. Shit every resolution.

Thats fucking genius!

I'm calling the patent office! lol

 

[Moloch]

Dude! Only do 2xAA at 45 degree angles and do 6xAA on all the narrow angles with 4xAA somewhere in the middle. That would work awesome a 10x7 and 12x9. Shit every resolution.

Thats fucking genius!

I'm calling the patent office! lol

QFT
people need stop getting terms mixed up, I knew what anistropic filtering and anti aliasing was back when I have a voodoo3

 

[The Batman]

All these fucking smilies are annoying me.

 

[Moloch]

All these fucking smilies are annoying me.

 

[OpStar]

It's $499 at my local fry's and the MSRP is $499. I'll bet you're wrong. What store did you see that at? I'll call them.

I bet you are wrong, since he is referring to the BFG 6800U waterblock card that runs 470mhz core

 

[Jbirney]

First off ATi is in the lead so far in the VST, and since its not a true game test, it should be taken with a grain of salt.

Agreed but its more of a worse case stress test.

But it was interested why Vavle released the VST and the timing of it right after Doom 3 even though HL2 wasn't ready yet. All Vavle had to do was give out thier results on different cards to quell the public about "are our cards fast enough to run HL 2" they didn't need to release the HL 2 VST.

Oh please every one was bitching about it form being 1 year late. Remember it was suppoose to be out last year? Also it allowed people to see what kind of perfromance they might get in HL2 with their current setup. So it allows them time to go out and upgrade BEFORE the game ships. Isn't finding out BEFORE you have the game your PC is in need of an upgrade vrs waiting till you have the game and have to suffer via poor perfromance?

Performance will still be similiar. Just look at just about the most used engine out there, the Quake3 engine. Performance up and down the line for Q3 engine games is fairly similiar.

That is BS. Its anything but simular. I remember when RtCW fisrt came out. The GF4 was kicking the 8500s butts in Q3. Yet in RtCW the 8500 were faster. One game perfromance tells us nothing about another games even if its based off the same engine.

Actually if the xtpe commands a good lead, I'll just call it the "press edition" and leave it at that...since the card has been replaced by the vanilla XTs anyways...the xtpe was never more than a marketing stunt...

Marketing Stunt? 6800UE Anyone..? You know the one that was "launched" at the same time ATI XT PE? I know you nV biased but please lets get the facts right on markting stunts here: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2044&p=8

BTW Valve data base showed over 1000 XT PE...wanna know how many 6800 UE it showed?

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

So while I will agree the XT PE issue was horrible at lest we there are some out there and being used in games like CS:S

But please calling the XT PE a marking stunt when you have the utter joke that is the UE is just well...funny.

1. They were run by Valve who was pushing a deal with vouchers going out with ATi cards at the time...therefore they were biased

Please they were not any more Bias the the offical Doom3 benchmarks Sponsered and controlled by NV. A case of pot, kettle, blacok.

2. The cards benchmarked were a completely different architecture and the benchmarks hardly matter anymore.

Tell that to the hunders of thousands of people that own the GF FX/9X serries of cards. For them it matters plenty. You have to remember that not every one upgrads like the typical [H]'er does. Running todays benchmarks in the DX9 mode show the same thing that was shown last year.


I am wondering if AI was turned on or not for this test. FS showed the same results that xbit but they had AI turned off. Thus the ATI scores may change.

Still either card is fine for CS:S

 

[rancor]

I am wondering if AI was turned on or not for this test. FS showed the same results that xbit but they had AI turned off. Thus the ATI scores may change.

Still either card is fine for CS:S

FS didn't show the same scores, FS with ATI AI off they got crushed lossing to nV in every level, up to a margin of 10 fps.


And the release of the HL 2 VST was a marketing stunt and ATi probably had alot to do with it. As you can see now that the new nV drivers they are way ahead of ATi, now you know the reason for ATi's AI, they had a feeling this was going to happen since HL 2/CS isn't as vertex intensive and more pixel shader intensive (unlike Far Cry), they were going to loose.