X38 or wait?

[Ham Sandwich]

My current gaming system is 4 years old and is running on 512MB of RAM (the other 512MB stick died). I kept delaying a new build, because something faster or better was always around the corner. Recently, I went to purchase CoD4 and immediately realized there was no way my machine could handle its requirements. So...time to upgrade, right?

I set out on my adventure, as I did 4 years ago, reading many articles and forums posts. Unfortunately, after reading everything, it appears that I'm even more undecided now than I was in the beginning. Four years ago the selection and variety wasn't as wide, which made it fairly easy to upgrade. Today, forget it.

All of these issues are crossing my mind...

X38 new chipset? X48 replacing x38 already? no SLI support? 780i delayed? nvidia's crappy chipsets? 45n? DDR2 old/cheap? DD3 future/expensive?

I was looking at the x38 boards, because they support PCI 2.0. However, there will be no SLI support and most boards only support DDR2 or DDR3 RAM. DDR2 is great, because it's so cheap. DDR3 is expensive, but it may be important to get a DDR3 board because of future upgrades. I ended up screwing myself during my last PC build by getting an Asus board with AGP support. PCI-E came out immediately afterwards and I was left behind, so I don't want to make that mistake again. I guess the question is, how much better will DDR3 performance be over DDR2? Right now it's not much, but who knows in the future. Should I be waiting on X48? 780i will be able to do SLI, but I'm not a big fan of Nvidia's chipsets. Should I go quad core or dual core? I'm hearing quads don't make a huge difference in gaming?

I always seems to be looking to upgrade whenever the technology page is turning to the next chapter. An x38/DDR2 board seems like it would be the way to go RIGHT NOW, but I don't know where that would leave me in the future. I'd hate to have to do another big upgrade in 1-2 years. I have no idea what to do folks, so I'm hoping you can help me. I'm willing to spend up to $2K on a new build. I'm interested to hear which direction you would go in my situation and why.

 

[Q-BZ]

Welcome to my world, 4 year old system and all! You're in the same spot I'm in.

I'm going to go quad core and x38 because the Nvidia SLI boards are garbage and I don't care about SLI. I'd rather spend the money on one "better" card anyways.

Quad core is great with growing benefits already, including gaming. Coming in fresh like us, you may as well get it and not look back. It will pay us back in ever increasing dividends in all aspects.

X38 is a nice sweet spot with a board like the Maximus Formula you are futureproof with PCI E 2.0 and you can run DDR2 now and upgrade to 3 some day down the road when you feel the need. A great board like that does both well. It'll kick ass now and it'll kick us for us down the road.

I'm going to stick with DDR2 for quite some time myself and most others around here are as well. DDR3 is simply not worth the expense right now.

I'm going to go quad core (probably q6600), Maximus Forumula Asus motherboard, 2 gigs of RAM at least (PC6400 or thereabouts) and an 8800GT from NVidia. Easily had for <$2100 or so from more reasonable and well reputed boutiques around here. If you build that yourself, it'll be south of 2 grand.

There's really no reason for either you or I to wait any longer.

Besides: After 4 years, anything we can get will be like a quantum leap anyways. I'm tired of waiting, aren't you?

 

[gwarren007]

Do you plan on using Crossfire or Sli? Eithor of those boards will limit your decisions. Single card gaming computer? The most versatile option. If you last upgraded 4 years ago, I would go quadcore. More and more games are using the multithread architechture so as time rolls on, you will NEED dual cores or more. My vote is for Q6600. A p35 chipset with at least 2 gb ram (xp 32bit) 4gb ( vista 64bit ) will see you thru many years.

 

[tiraides]

Wait. If you need a rig now, get an Intel P35-based motherboard if you want to use quad cores, or an Nvidia 680i SLI-based board if you want SLI.

The main appeals to P38/X48 boards are 1600MHz FSB, DDR3 RAM, and support for PCI Express 2.0. All video cards with PCI Express 2.0 are backwards compatible with PCI Express 1.0 -- and not one single graphics card has used the full bandwidth available on PCI Express 1.0. Only two processors (as we know of right now) are coming out with 1600MHz FSB, and they are both going to be Extreme Edition processors. Most people can't afford EE processors right now, and by the time they're "needed," (chances are) there will be a new generation of CPUs out that perform better than the EEs and cost less.

Right now, various users are having problems running/overclocking quad-core CPUs on the 680i boards. And there are (reportedly) problems with the 780i boards as well. So right now, their only appeal is for SLI, which for many users (unless they have 24 inch or larger monitors and want maximum frame rates on all the games they play) isn't worth the problems.

And right now DDR3 is expensive... especially when you consider the fact that you can get 2GB of DDR2 800 RAM for around $50-$60 right now. And we don't know whether or not DDR3 will (eventually) drop to the prices that DDR2 RAM is at -- as far as we know, DDR3 may never drop to those levels. (At their lowest, DDR1 never dropped to the levels that we've seen DDR2 at -- well, certainly not for 2GB.)

One other thing that you have to consider is that the P38/X48 boards have just been released -- yes, we know all about their potential, but it will probably be at least six months before they start to show better performance levels than the G33/P35 boards. And there's no guarantee that there would be huge performance gains from using P38/X48 than by using G33/P35.

I've been hearing talk about people wanting to "future-proof" and get the P38 boards, and that amazes me. Most G33/P35 boards support the Penryn (45nm/1333MHz FSB) processors (I can't say all, but I haven't found a board from those two chipsets that can't support Penryns), and by the time Yorkfield and Nehalem become widespread and available options, there will be better boards out that support them.

If you can, wait at least six months for more processors and motherboards to arrive. But you can still build a good rig right now using a Q6600, a P35-based board, and DDR2 800 RAM, and have that rig last you another four or more years (with an occasional update or two).

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Q-BZ, I thought the Maximus Formula was only capable of doing DDR2? It can't do both DDR2/DDR3, right? It's funny you mentioned it, because that was the top board on my list between all of the ones I've looked at.

As you stated, we're in the exact same boat. I like your setup and those specs are what I've been leaning towards. I'm not that hard-pressed to get an SLI board, although it would be nice. From what I've read, Intel designed the X38 to support SLI, but Nvidia is won't sign off on it (they want gamers to buy their boards), so maybe we'll see hacked drivers in the future.

I think I'll stick with a single card setup gwarren07 and thanks for the quad suggestion, I think you're probably right.

 

[echn111]

I'm going to assume you are looking for a high end value for money rig. Therefore you're actually fairly limited in your choices:

- Go DDR2. No point in waiting here. DDR3 is not for you. It's either for extreme enthusiasts/overclockers or for those who care about getting the latest/greatest. In both these cases, value for money means nothing. Somehow I don't see someone who has waited 4 years to upgrade either connecting their new rig to a nitrogen cooling system trying to get extreme overclocking speeds and requiring high end DDR3 or caring about being able to boast he's got DDR3. DDR2 is excellent value for money right now.

- Go X38. SLI is best with high end cards. And regardless of the marketing, is not good value for money over a single card solution. P35 is also decent, but if I were building now, I'd go with the X38...

- Go quad core. They are powerful CPU's and represent excellent value for money. More and more games will start to take advantage of the quads over time.

- Penryn or Q6600? This is the only uncertain area. You could get a Q6600 or wait for the cheap Penryn in Q1 2008. Entirely your choice.

 

[Q-BZ]

^^ Exactly where I'm at.

Q-BZ, I thought the Maximus Formula was only capable of doing DDR2? It can't do both DDR2/DDR3, right? It's funny you mentioned it, because that was the top board on my list between all of the ones I've looked at.

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=572&l4=0&model=1850&modelmenu=1

It supports both DDR2 and 3. Awesome reviews out there and word of mouth around here and abroad. I think it's the one I'm going for.

As you stated, we're in the exact same boat. I like your setup and those specs are what I've been leaning towards. I'm not that hard-pressed to get an SLI board, although it would be nice. From what I've read, Intel designed the X38 to support SLI, but Nvidia is won't sign off on it (they want gamers to buy their boards), so maybe we'll see hacked drivers in the future.

I'd rather spend the money on one great card vs. getting into SLI myself. I just view it as a dubious upgrade path, at best.

The Nvidia boards are a nightmare. Do a forum search for "680i". Stability? Reliability? Performance?

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1244339

One of the editiors here just put up a thread the other day about how many of these boards he's gone through.

No thanks!

I think I'll stick with a single card setup gwarren07 and thanks for the quad suggestion, I think you're probably right.

I think it's the way to go. I like NVidia for GPU's but not motherboards. Quad core all the way. You may as well make this move count is my attitude.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

^^ Exactly where I'm at.



http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=572&l4=0&model=1850&modelmenu=1

It supports both DDR2 and 3. Awesome reviews out there and word of mouth around here and abroad. I think it's the one I'm going for.

I clicked the link, but it says DDR2 only. I also realized it's a water cooled board, so I must have been looking at a different board earlier. I'm planning to go with regular fan cooling. I'm trying to build a quiet pc this time around.

I agree with you concerning reliability and performance, which is why I don't really like Nvidia chipsets. I can live without SLI. If Nvidia wants to take their ball and go home, then let them.

I think I'm going to go ahead and buy one of these x38 boards and go with DDR2. It makes the most sense.

 

[Q-BZ]

I clicked the link, but it says DDR2 only. I also realized it's a water cooled board, so I must have been looking at a different board earlier. I'm planning to go with regular fan cooling. I'm trying to build a quiet pc this time around.

Whoops. You're right. No DDR3 on these bad boys.

The Maximus Formula comes in two version: SE is watercooled. Regular is not. That's the only differences between the two.

http://rog.asus.com/product/product_max_formula_main.aspx

^^ That's the regular version.

http://rog.asus.com/product/product_max_formula_se_main.aspx

That's the SE version. (Watercooling.)

I agree with you concerning reliability and performance, which is why I don't really like Nvidia chipsets. I can live without SLI. If Nvidia wants to take their ball and go home, then let them.

I think I'm going to go ahead and buy one of these x38 boards and go with DDR2. It makes the most sense.

Same here.