WoW orange items

[Trepidati0n]

Basically you never enter combat. Don't heal anyone, don't attack anything, sit on the sidelines. You won't be "flagged" for combat, so you CAN res people. Just res anyone who dies, but don't heal or buff or attack anything.

Exactly. Things like that are critical for the Baron fight in MC where somebody dies every 30 seconds or so because of "the bomb".

However...they fixed combat rez in Pwnyxia. Now, soon as pretty much anyhing happens you get thrown into combat. It only seems to be in this zone. Now stage 2-3 conversion is alot tougher. Usually if she accidently turned and wiped half your raid you could combat rez them back....now, if you lose half the raid...you lose half the raid.

They also fixed the "fear bug" where if you were rapidly wiggling you movement keys and got feared, you would stand in place. Only good thing is that they reduced the fire damage cause by the ground lava in the layer.

We would have had her on the first time last night but she evaded at 1% The second time we wafflestomped her.

I think last night was my best Onyxia ever. Since I was in a whelp group I got to see the fight from anther perspective during stage 2. Seeing tons of air to ground fire during stage 2 was just breath taking. Especailly now since almost all of our caster have stormrager which looks like a small lightning ball.

Yeah...I would be willing to bet than a significant amount of WoW player still don't know how to play their class "well". As a priest I do one thing in a raid...I heal the MT...PERIOD. I don't spot heal (that is what shamans/druids do) or cause damage. My job is to be as mana efficient as possible and keep the MT alive. If rogues/mages/warriors/palis/necros/etc get agro besides the MT...then they screwed up. Only time anybody should be getting hurt besides the MT is when the damage is AoE. But...rogues don't listen...they think they need to do maximum DPS to win EVERY fight. Mages when they get agro never run towards the MT, then you get non-MC'd gear shamans thinking they can tank and druids who heal everyone and their mother and generate so much heal agro that they die because they can't fade (yeah putting 8 or 9 HoT's is not smart). Then the necro who sacrfies way to much HP to keep his mana pool so he can do UBER DPS, then he gets agro and get dead in 2 hits. Hunters forget to use FD everytime it pops. Another one is thinking that soon as the MT engages the mob that you need to start causing damage really really fast. Screw it. Let the MT fight the mob for 10 seconds while each healer class throws in a single heal to keep the MT up. Ten seconds of agro building can really allow people to unload on a mob...but nah, playing the "I got agro" game is more fun.

Another part of the problem is gear. People are getting so well geared that things like Strat/SM/etc are becoming trivial to the point of it feels like a zerg fest. Heck last time our guild 10 man'd SM strat we didn't have a MT or MA really because no multi-mob fight lasted longer than 10 seconds. However their gear may be good enough for ZG..but their skills aren't. Oh well...what you gonna do. Hopefully people will learn, we all have the capacity to do that.

-tReP

 

[Genocidal[v2]]

Out of combat ressing is only critical on Baron Geddon if you don't know how to handle the fight. Blizzard has said it themselves that if you can't do a boss fight without needing it, then you simply aren't prepared or ready for the encounter. Which is why they are starting to make it so everyone gets put into combat with all the new bosses coming out.

 

[ryanrule]

how could u wipe on ox lol.

 

[Prim3]

Anyone here can beat me and my friends 9 man Scarlet Strat in 34 mins and some odd seconds. (2 wipes for me trying to pull 4 hallways instead of our normal 2-3) I'll bow down to you. I wish I frapsed the stuff =(

 

[Trepidati0n]

Out of combat ressing is only critical on Baron Geddon if you don't know how to handle the fight. Blizzard has said it themselves that if you can't do a boss fight without needing it, then you simply aren't prepared or ready for the encounter. Which is why they are starting to make it so everyone gets put into combat with all the new bosses coming out.

I'll agree with that to a point. But when Onyxia turns and agro's a t00n who has done nothing but stand there 2 minutes into the fight and wipe that side of the raid (i.e. you did everything right but the game bugged) do you think thats fair? Features like that make some of Blizzards shitty code tolerable. Most Onyxia fights it is clean transition between stage 2 and stage 3...however every once in a while she acts buggy and causes us major grief (like evading at 1%).

As for being so critical of people...would you care to offer an alternate strategy to the Baron?

-tReP

 

[Trepidati0n]

Anyone here can beat me and my friends 9 man Scarlet Strat in 34 mins and some odd seconds. (2 wipes for me trying to pull 4 hallways instead of our normal 2-3) I'll bow down to you. I wish I frapsed the stuff =(

That is pretty darn impressive.

 

[Genocidal[v2]]

What my guild does is whenever someone gets the bomb, they run to a designated area, away from everyone else. Unless they are low on health, which they shouldn't be, then surviving the blast isn't an issue. Positioning is also key. If everyone is spread out, and someone gets the bomb, that just increases the chance of multiple people blowing. We have one spot where everybody stands. After his AoE attacks stop the melee rush in and attack, then run back to the spot where the casters and healers are once the aoe starts up again. Works great.

As for onyxia, our phase 2 to 3 transition is usually really smooth, though sometimes the main tank has trouble getting aggro, we recover from this though, and i've never seen her evasion bug before.

 

[maverick72]

Not that its my class (im a pally and know that job in mc is to cleanse and heal) .. but you talked about rogues ... what are their role in mc???? Just curious.

 

[Genocidal[v2]]

Only job a rogue has is to deal massive amounts of damage.

 

[Direwolf20]

Only job a rogue has is to deal massive amounts of damage.

For the most part, yes. However, during the Baron Gheddon fight the rogue's job is to go get a soda and some chips or something. Or he can throw knives .

Sometimes we use a "sacrificial rogue" to pull certain bosses, but for the most part, they don't have a niche roll to fill in MC outside of dps.

 

[Genocidal[v2]]

Our rogues do quite a bit of damage on Geddon, though not as much as mages since we have to run in and out to avoid the aoe. On shazzrah rogues are definately useless . On him most of the rogues just go stand in a corner and wait for loot to drop.

 

[Talon]

Or with the new 1.7.0 Shoot bug they can stand back with a slow bow and do more ranged DPS than a hunter

 

[Genocidal[v2]]

What bug is that?

 

[Talon]

Shoot no longer takes weapon speed into account, just the added one second cast time for the skill. So instead of the shoot time being weapon speed + one, it's now one second.

Blizzard screwed up in several major areas with this patch, right now it's not being highlighted because of all the attention given to Zul'Gurub and Arathi Basin, but there are some bad problems that went live.

 

[ryanrule]

if u get the bomb, hearth to if and stand in the AH.

 

[Genocidal[v2]]

Wow, i'll have to check that out. Won't make a difference for me though, my gun has a pretty fast speed on it, 1.5 I think. I just use it for the 14 AGI on it.

 

[Trepidati0n]

What my guild does is whenever someone gets the bomb, they run to a designated area, away from everyone else. Unless they are low on health, which they shouldn't be, then surviving the blast isn't an issue. Positioning is also key. If everyone is spread out, and someone gets the bomb, that just increases the chance of multiple people blowing. We have one spot where everybody stands. After his AoE attacks stop the melee rush in and attack, then run back to the spot where the casters and healers are once the aoe starts up again. Works great.

As for onyxia, our phase 2 to 3 transition is usually really smooth, though sometimes the main tank has trouble getting aggro, we recover from this though, and i've never seen her evasion bug before.

We do the same drill, the problem is when the baron AoE's the tight bunch and then somebody becomes the bomb that is when somebody dies. Once we pull the baron, all the casters run to the entrance where he comes through. The "death spot" is about 20 yards back and another 20 yards away is where a shaman stands OoC to res. I have survived the bomb way to many times. I was the bomb 3x in one fight Must be karma for taunting him.

But what you mentioned is EXACTLY what we do.

-tReP

 

[Genocidal[v2]]

We fight him in front of the tunnel opening where he comes out of. Keep the main group far away from him and his AoE should never be a problem. There is an area to the left of the tunnel opening that has a low overhang, so if you go there and explode with the bomb you won't take any fall damage.

 

[Direwolf20]

Our rogues do quite a bit of damage on Geddon, though not as much as mages since we have to run in and out to avoid the aoe. On shazzrah rogues are definately useless . On him most of the rogues just go stand in a corner and wait for loot to drop.

HA! Thats what I get for posting early in the morning with a headache. I meant shazzrah. No rogues . Baron they do stuff on surely.

 

[Steel Chicken]

Yeah...I would be willing to bet than a significant amount of WoW player still don't know how to play their class "well". As a priest I do one thing in a raid...I heal the MT...PERIOD. I don't spot heal (that is what shamans/druids do) or cause damage. My job is to be as mana efficient as possible and keep the MT alive. If rogues/mages/warriors/palis/necros/etc get agro besides the MT...then they screwed up.

Amen brutha. Once the MT falls raid is over. As a secondary healer (Druid & Shaman) I cant say how many times we wiped when one of two things happened: Priest stopped healing the MT for whatever reason, or someone got too much aggro and started a chain reaction OMG I need to heal jow blow with a mega heal! Which then draws uber agro on the healers...

How you described it is exactly how it works best, priest keeps MT alive. Other healers spot heal everyone else. Everyone else, watch the aggro.

 

[Trepidati0n]

Amen brutha. Once the MT falls raid is over. As a secondary healer (Druid & Shaman) I cant say how many times we wiped when one of two things happened: Priest stopped healing the MT for whatever reason, or someone got too much aggro and started a chain reaction OMG I need to heal jow blow with a mega heal! Which then draws uber agro on the healers...

How you described it is exactly how it works best, priest keeps MT alive. Other healers spot heal everyone else. Everyone else, watch the aggro.

Another thing some priests might find distrubing is that they SHOULDN'T be #1 in healing. Priests are effective because HOW they heal and not how often/much they heal. The ability of priests to go into rotation healing is what allows effective end game content.

This may seem confusing but a priest in most boss fights is casting a flash heal about once every 10 seconds on average (6 priests in duo 1x1 rotations). You can cast about 9 flash heals w/ about 50% of your mana. This amounts to about 90 seconds for your 50% rotation. 300 spirit gives you about 45 mana per second regens 4k mana over 90 seconds. Interestingly enough 4k mana is about the amount of mana you used for your flash heals in your rotation. Therefore at the end of a fight, your priests average mana should never dip below 75% unless the fit hits the shan. Having half your priests doing absolutely NOTHING but regen is the key to most boss fights. That damn 5 second rule makes us do so In the begining when guilds start MC the priests may finish up near 0%, but once they start getting geared this number gets higher and higher.

That is primary reason why green geared guilds can't do MC/Onyxia/etc. This the primary reason when our guild choses who gets to do MC for the week why they prefer blue people to green people. The missing 3rd stat bonus in most cases is what kills. Spirit at end game is important for priests. What stat do you wish you had more of?

-tReP

 

[Genocidal[v2]]

Agilty and stamina...especialy agi. I'm a whore when it comes to those stats. I have 417 agi and around 4300 HP unbuffed. I want more

 

[Steel Chicken]

That is primary reason why green geared guilds can't do MC/Onyxia/etc. This the primary reason when our guild choses who gets to do MC for the week why they prefer blue people to green people. The missing 3rd stat bonus in most cases is what kills. Spirit at end game is important for priests. What stat do you wish you had more of?

-tReP

well keep in mind spirit has only recently been made useful...a few patches ago it was kinda gimpy

but your right, OOM also = wipe.
Thats why I like ennervate (druid) so much. I can cast it on the priest if i need too.

 

[Trepidati0n]

well keep in mind spirit has only recently been made useful...a few patches ago it was kinda gimpy

but your right, OOM also = wipe.
Thats why I like ennervate (druid) so much. I can cast it on the priest if i need too.

The patch which made regen while casting w/ spirit valid didn't help much if you were still just sitting there. The effectivity of spirit still is the same...it is that you actually regen until the spell is cast and then the 5 second timer starts. That is why in raids we have a seperate channel for healers, etc. It allows us to coordinate without poluting the other more global channels. But yeah..the "spirit patch" did help out in cases where you were using greater heal alot.

As for the rogue w/ 4300HP..I really appreciate your efforts in that aspect. Too many rogues give up to much HP. With PoF and CoW you would be ~5200 which allows to survive nearly any attack and still have enough time to run away and bandage. End game content as I mentioned before is about tactics now UBER DPS. Heck, our #1 rogue only uses sinister strike. Everything else is based upon maximising that type of attack and then his survivability. It is very nice seeing a rogue who values constant DPS more than "insta damage".

-tReP

 

[Genocidal[v2]]

Sinister strike is my main attack, along with slice and dice. I'm always in the top 3 for dps.

 

[ryanrule]

also.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO HAVE 300 FIRST AID

it helps alot.

 

[Bantu]

DemisE, what addon or mod are you using in that pic? is that Insomniax?

 

[Neurofreeze]

I'll agree with that to a point. But when Onyxia turns and agro's a t00n who has done nothing but stand there 2 minutes into the fight and wipe that side of the raid (i.e. you did everything right but the game bugged) do you think thats fair? Features like that make some of Blizzards shitty code tolerable. Most Onyxia fights it is clean transition between stage 2 and stage 3...however every once in a while she acts buggy and causes us major grief (like evading at 1%).

As for being so critical of people...would you care to offer an alternate strategy to the Baron?

-tReP

1) Have your healers heal the bomb completely full on the spot.

2) Position everyone by groups in Garr's circular room to be a few yards away from the surrounding walls. Basically you'll be forming a giant ring around that room.

3) Run to the wall when you have the bomb. You will blow up and hit a low ceiling, thus negating fall damage. Your groups should be far enough back to avoid the Baron's AoE and give the MT some roaming room (as the Baron and the MT will shift positions slightly when dodging the AoE), but far enough away from the wall that the bomb does not hit anyone else when they run to the wall.

Using this strategy I think our last Geddon fight had about four deaths total. Our out of combat rezzer pretty much just slept through the fight and everyone was already alive at the end.

Also, for Onyxia, are you standing on the ledge? That is a very buggy area that Blizzard really doesn't want people to use. I've seen it used and if Onyxia aggros someone on the ledge she sometimes cannot target that person and will heal a bit (from losing aggro), then target some completely random person who may not even be on the aggro list.

Also, all our rogues seem to be dagger/backstab type of deal. Once your MT and rogues are experienced enough of when do to what and when not to, they can go ahead and spec to daggers and use backstab. The better DPS actually helps in a lot of fights. More DPS on Onyxia means less fearing during phase 3. It's a balance between how much DPS we can do vs. how much aggro the tank can hold. Our tank for Onyxia respec'd to full protection, and with the high threat (used to be medium) shield slam, the backstab rogues can go all out, making phase three rather quick. We tend to be DPS heavy pretty much everywhere though. We generally take six rogues even at the start of MC. If you can control the fights well enough it makes for a very short MC run (we Lucifron to Golemmag in four hours, then save Domo/Rag/Onyxia for another night). I've heard of other guilds on other servers doing Lucifron to Golemmag even faster, at three hours.

That 1-sec shoot bug sounds crazy, I need to try that at Onyxia tonight. It works out perfectly for me since I have a 3.3s speed crossbow (I'm a warrior, it has nice stats), one of two slowest in the game (the one from killing Korrak in AV). I've been in AB all week though.

 

[Concillian]

Shoot no longer takes weapon speed into account, just the added one second cast time for the skill. So instead of the shoot time being weapon speed + one, it's now one second.

This is not quite what is happening. It seems like it is working like spells in that the 1 second cooldown is happening during the shoot time. I'm getting shoot times = weapon speed, much like autoshoot speeds, but having to mash the key repeatedly to get the result.

They were attempting to fix what was a pretty nasty bug, in that the cooldown on a ranged weapon was NOT 1 second. Since at least open beta, the cooldown was also the ranged weapon speed, and not just 1 second. So you spent weapon speed time shooting the weapon, then you had to tap your foot for the weapon speed time again waiting for it to cooldown.

Complicating matters, it was a GLOBAL cooldown of that time, which essentially makes ranged weapons totally useless, as you can't use any skills for the cooldown time, a pretty large negative when you have a slow crossbow as your ranged weapon. When using a 3.1 second crossbow, as my rogue and warrior are, the 3.1 second cooldown was painfully obvious.

So they tried to correct a bug that was giving a 3.1 + 3.1 second ranged attack to my characters, and somehow forgot the 1 second cooldown, or they made the cooldown apply to the time during the attack, as it does when casting spells.

It's nothing like the 1 second attack regardless of weapon speed you suggest. To suggest such a thing tells me that you did very little testing before broadcasting with what seems like a fairly sharp tongue. Nobody's ranged weapon DPS is larger than a hunters. With this "overfix" of the long standing ranged weapon bug the attack speed evens out to what a Hunter would have with autoshoot, but hunters have skills to use for extra ranged damage.

 

[Neurofreeze]

It sounds to me like you did even less testing to try to disprove it. I have a 3.3s crossbow. It was shooting significantly faster than 3.3s. At times I can pull almost 200dps sustained on mobs with a significant HP pool (ie. I'm mashing shoot for longer than 2-3 minutes). My rated ranged DPS on the character screen is less than 100dps, I think about 86 actually. Unless I had some ridiculous crit rate or the mob somehow had negative damage mitigation this shouldn't be possible. Even against Shazzarah where warriors and rogues do almost nothing, I was pulling over 150dps, and this is with very little agility against a well-armored target.

It's not hard to tell that shoot is far faster than 3.3s, or in your case, 3.1s.

This bug outpaces a hunter's autoshoot. So much so that rogues and their naturally high ranged attack power can outdamage hunters using specials (most hunter epic ranged weapons are pretty fast and thus their base damage with ranged attack power included aren't as spectacular as some would like to believe, especially with high ranged AP). I'm not saying all hunters, as one of our hunters has ridiculous AP (a bit over 1200 buffed) combined with blastershot launcher and he can outdamage even our gutgore ripper/lobotomizer backstab rogue, but many times rogues with the proper ranged weapon and their naturally high agility can outdamage many hunters during extended fights.

 

[calebb]

It sounds to me like you did even less testing to try to disprove it.

Exactly.

A couple nights ago we were doing Shazzrah when I first realized this bug existed. I was using the Carapace Spine Crossbow (3.3 speed) and by mashing my shoot key, I could shoot once every ~1.2 seconds. I hit ~350dps with thorium headed arrows & ~1100 attack power.

This is definitely a bug & Concillian's post belongs at http://forum.worldofwarcraft.com/

Caleb

 

[Talon]

This is not quite what is happening. It seems like it is working like spells in that the 1 second cooldown is happening during the shoot time. I'm getting shoot times = weapon speed, much like autoshoot speeds, but having to mash the key repeatedly to get the result.

They were attempting to fix what was a pretty nasty bug, in that the cooldown on a ranged weapon was NOT 1 second. Since at least open beta, the cooldown was also the ranged weapon speed, and not just 1 second. So you spent weapon speed time shooting the weapon, then you had to tap your foot for the weapon speed time again waiting for it to cooldown.

Complicating matters, it was a GLOBAL cooldown of that time, which essentially makes ranged weapons totally useless, as you can't use any skills for the cooldown time, a pretty large negative when you have a slow crossbow as your ranged weapon. When using a 3.1 second crossbow, as my rogue and warrior are, the 3.1 second cooldown was painfully obvious.

So they tried to correct a bug that was giving a 3.1 + 3.1 second ranged attack to my characters, and somehow forgot the 1 second cooldown, or they made the cooldown apply to the time during the attack, as it does when casting spells.

It's nothing like the 1 second attack regardless of weapon speed you suggest. To suggest such a thing tells me that you did very little testing before broadcasting with what seems like a fairly sharp tongue. Nobody's ranged weapon DPS is larger than a hunters. With this "overfix" of the long standing ranged weapon bug the attack speed evens out to what a Hunter would have with autoshoot, but hunters have skills to use for extra ranged damage.

Quite.

The bug is exactly what I said it was; the Shoot skill being usable every one second and ignoring weapon speed for repeat shots.

I know what Blizzard was trying to do, I've been frustrated many times after pulling with my own Carapace Spine Crossbow in the wrong stance and having to wait for the global cooldown before I could switch to Defensive.

I also know that they totally screwed it up and released live a rediculous bug that should never had made it past the first tester.

No, normally no class can beat a Hunter for ranged, physical damage, but with this bug an agility heavy rogue with a nice slow crossbow certainly can.

 

[Concillian]

It must be something only doable on third+ shots or something, because the 2 shots I can get off on an approaching mob are not happening at 1 second, they are taking weapon speed.

You're right, it's not difficult to tell if shoot is 1 second or 3 seconds, and all I can say is that for me, it's 3 seconds. It's possible that it's taking weapon speed for the first shot or two, then going into machinegun mode, I suppose, but I didn't think this likely, which is why I responded.

Perhaps that's also how it got past testing. playing normally, you don't see it, but in a special case (like a rogue standing back and shooting a bow at a stationary target) it becomes prevalent.