WoW: Cataclsym, anyone else bored and not feeling it ?

Archmage said:
Is this considered a good world PVP scene? I've seen him take on more in the past.

Is this part of the game still alive and well?
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Playing WoW today, you are much less likely to bump in to other hostile players. Fights happen occasionally, but due to flying mounts it's very very easy for somebody who doesn't want to fight to just pick up and be halfway around the world doing something else in 5 minutes. The Looking-For-Dungeon tool that automatically teleports you in to dungeons also removed a lot of the PVP that happened around the summoning stones that sit outside.

Back before the first expansion it was a hassle to get away from other players who were attacking you so people often got friends or guildmates to defend them while they were questing. That resulted in some pretty epic spontaneous world PVP where you'd get big 50 player scrums going on in the middle of nowhere.
 
In the early months of Cataclysm, the daily quest hub in Tol Barad Peninsula was very reminiscent of spontaneous world PvP. It resembled the Isle of Quel'danas in TBC. No flying available, a shared questing zone etc. I dunno how it is now though, but it was pretty cool when I last went there.
 
Where the hell is 4.2?!?! wtb more raid content already...

Haven't been playing much except for maybe working on my alts. I mostly play BC2 now :D
 
Archmage said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dQmYnf1WLU - here's some older WoW for you... the guy playing has such terrible internet that it disconnects at the end (I know him).

He had to explain to me what was going on, but he said that WoW players would be able to figure it out.

Is this considered a good world PVP scene? I've seen him take on more in the past.

Is this part of the game still alive and well?
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World PvP, for the most part, is dead.
 
We're talking about a 6 year old game. At a certain point the adventure has to end. Everyone will get bored at some point. I for one am glad I took the time to play through the original WoW at launch and BC because I feel like that was a special moment in gaming and it really was an adventure as video games go.
 
CryingGod said:
Classic and TBC was a lot of fun.
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I said the same thing then played a (very populated) version 1.3 private server. I forgot about all the little things that have changed over the past 4 years. I only got in about 30 min of play before I said screw it and uninstalled it all together. It was terrible.
 
Blackstone said:
We're talking about a 6 year old game. At a certain point the adventure has to end. Everyone will get bored at some point. I for one am glad I took the time to play through the original WoW at launch and BC because I feel like that was a special moment in gaming and it really was an adventure as video games go.
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Yep, totally agree, to be a part of WoW, during the first 2 - 3 years was an amazing time for PC Gaming, I am very happy to have played back then. Had some great winter weekends playing till like 3:00am with my brothers clearing dungeons.

Sadly that time has come and gone, the game today is not the same, and the luster has completely worn out. It has zero passion or heart any more, feels soulless now. It's over. Time to move on.

SW;ToR hopefully will bring back that old school WoW feeling.
 
Zorachus said:
Yep, totally agree, to be a part of WoW, during the first 2 - 3 years was an amazing time for PC Gaming, I am very happy to have played back then. Had some great winter weekends playing till like 3:00am with my brothers clearing dungeons.

Sadly that time has come and gone, the game today is not the same, and the luster has completely worn out. It has zero passion or heart any more, feels soulless now. It's over. Time to move on.

SW;ToR hopefully will bring back that old school WoW feeling.
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So true. I remember a time when clearing Strat or Scholo with ONLY a 5 man team was a true accomplishment. So few people could do it. And trying to find people with the UBRS key, and how I leveled a warlock just so I could park him outside the instance to summon people to open it for us.

My best memories of WoW are from vanilla. I have some great memories of raids from BC and Wrath but Cata just did nothing for me. At all.

++ on SW:ToR
 
Vanilla wow really did feel like a voyage of discovery. A large world ready to explore. No elitist community yet, no gearscore or recount. It was fun back then.

I may go back just to level a toon with my wife but I really have no interest in endgame.
 
I agree that the magic is gone. Vanilla WoW was the only MMORPG that i felt was worth putting time into, and i have played a bunch. TBC was a bit of a letdown, but was still fun. WotLK was even MORE of a letdown, and i only kept playing because of the friends i made online. Cata, just not feeling it anymore. Haven't even bothered to install it on my home system yet, because i don't really want to play anymore.

Vanilla WoW will always be my fondest memory of how an MMORPG should be. Sadly, i do not see those days returning ever again. You only get to break that cherry once. ;)
 
RedTalon19 said:
So true. I remember a time when clearing Strat or Scholo with ONLY a 5 man team was a true accomplishment. So few people could do it. And trying to find people with the UBRS key, and how I leveled a warlock just so I could park him outside the instance to summon people to open it for us.

My best memories of WoW are from vanilla. I have some great memories of raids from BC and Wrath but Cata just did nothing for me. At all.

++ on SW:ToR
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That wasn't fun at all. I think too many people glamorize the misery of vanilla WoW. Yeah sitting in trade chat for a few hours trying to get an UBRS key is fun? Wiping for hours in Strat on the 100 trash pulls is fun? That was miserable, I can't believe I stayed through it.

It's amazing how many quality of life improvements the game has had over the past years. You don't really realize it until you go back and play the old Vanilla, which you can only do in private servers.

Most of the bullshit that you had to deal with in the old game are gone. Vote kicking idiots that want to destroy a whole instance run because they didn't roll the highest. Wasn't possible before; before we had to just abandon the entire group.

No more trade chat spam for DPS LFG DUNGEON, there is now a queue, and you get ported there automatically.

Glamorize vanilla all you want but waiting for 2 years to get my tier one shoulders was miserable. MISERABLE. We have raid options now, not like before. MC and BWL... yay.

PvP is better than it was though I'm not a fan of arenas (balancing both large scale PvP and Arenas and PvE is horrible work). All PvP was back in the day was a few OP classes and a horrific grind that was dreadful. World PvP was fun as crap though dishonorable kills hurt the fun (South Shore was fun but had to manage the dishonorable kills people).

-Faster Mounts
-Easier attainable gold/loot
-More gameplay options
-Achievements
-Much more balancing PvE classes
-More loots options (not just one shoulder)
-Reputation Grind enhancements (tabard anyone?)
-Guild Leveling

You can go on and on about the changes that were implemented. I think today is much better in gaming terms in general (all games, not just WoW). I'm not one to glamorize old crap just because it was old. I have a great memory of the failures games had, and WoW had tons in Vanilla. It had few enough that I've been playing since then though LOL

EDIT:
The elitism in WoW kinda sucks now, but I don't blame it with so many people that just plain suck ass. This game is NOT that hard.
 
WasntMe, I agree a lot of quality of game-play changes were made for the better. Caster itemization in vanilla was virtually non-existent. PvP before any BGs was fun at first but extremely annoying after a while. No instance queues, no summoning stones and half the instances had no close graveyards.

I miss the days where it actually took close teamwork and cooperation and EVERYBODY being on top of their game in order to complete even a regular 5-man dungeon. You get that with heroic raids now a bit, but most of that simply comes down to gear.

Doing those old dungeon grinds and getting really hard to obtain gear (epics) was a true achievement. None of that carries the same weight anymore.
 
RedTalon19 said:
I miss the days where it actually took close teamwork and cooperation and EVERYBODY being on top of their game in order to complete even a regular 5-man dungeon. You get that with heroic raids now a bit, but most of that simply comes down to gear.
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I don't miss that at all. I see it still in the dungeon queue now for ZA/ZG. If one person isn't on their A game, then the whole thing is a wipe fest. I died 18 (according to recount) times in ZG the other day, in one run. There is NOTHING fun about that, especially when it was due to the same 2 people not getting what needs to be done. If that's what you miss, jump in the dungeon finder as a DPS, you'll see it very soon (or after the 45 minute queue pops).

Thankfully, that element is being removed in some of the new MMOs. Look at Rift as an example; even low level people can help close a rift and it won't wipe the group out.
 
RedTalon19 said:
WasntMe, I agree a lot of quality of game-play changes were made for the better. Caster itemization in vanilla was virtually non-existent. PvP before any BGs was fun at first but extremely annoying after a while. No instance queues, no summoning stones and half the instances had no close graveyards.

I miss the days where it actually took close teamwork and cooperation and EVERYBODY being on top of their game in order to complete even a regular 5-man dungeon. You get that with heroic raids now a bit, but most of that simply comes down to gear.

Doing those old dungeon grinds and getting really hard to obtain gear (epics) was a true achievement. None of that carries the same weight anymore.
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Yep. Nowadays everything is easy. Just getting 40 equipped players together and doing what was needed to win a boss fight was an epic struggle. Getting a piece of set gear was worth celebrating, because it took effort to get. Being in a guild actually meant something, as that was the only way to see end game content.

That assshat ragnaros still owes me a pair of pants! :D
 
WasntMe said:
Wiping for hours in Strat on the 100 trash pulls is fun?
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Wiping for hours generally isn't fun, but killing the boss at the end after struggling though is a big thrill. I expect a villain's headquarters to be packed with his armies. If I had wanted to play a loot-pinata game I would have played Diablo 2; In an MMO I expect a challenge that requires teamwork and skill.
 
Mozex said:
Wiping for hours generally isn't fun, but killing the boss at the end after struggling though is a big thrill. I expect a villain's headquarters to be packed with his armies. If I had wanted to play a loot-pinata game I would have played Diablo 2; In an MMO I expect a challenge that requires teamwork and skill.
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You cant keep that up forever though. People get sick of 3 hours of pain and 10 minutes of fun. There needs to be a middle ground and i thought TBC hit the nail right on the head. WoTLK went too far one way now cata went too far back the other way.

I like a challenge i dont like the lazy idea of using trash pulls to make the challenge. I especially cant stand using trash to artificially lengthen the time it takes to get anything done.

Banging our head against the wall on a hard boss for 3 hours is one thing, taking 3 hours to get to him saps the fun completely out of it.

Its like they forgot that at the end of the day its still a GAME and the intention of games is to be fun.
 
WasntMe said:
I don't miss that at all. I see it still in the dungeon queue now for ZA/ZG. If one person isn't on their A game, then the whole thing is a wipe fest. I died 18 (according to recount) times in ZG the other day, in one run. There is NOTHING fun about that, especially when it was due to the same 2 people not getting what needs to be done. If that's what you miss, jump in the dungeon finder as a DPS, you'll see it very soon (or after the 45 minute queue pops).

Thankfully, that element is being removed in some of the new MMOs. Look at Rift as an example; even low level people can help close a rift and it won't wipe the group out.
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My opinion on this is that the average player is not adequately prepared for the challenges of heroics, much less raiding. Part of that blame is on the game itself. It is very difficult to raid or even do a 5-man successfully without the use of DBM. Players these days can also level to 85 but still not know about how to properly spec, gem, enchant, reforge, etc., and game mechanics are not explained well in the game itself. How is a player supposed to know that he needs 26 expertise in order to be capped, otherwise he is gimping his DPS? How is someone supposed to know that you are supposed to use skill 1/2/3/4/5, in that order, and use skill 6 if it procs, but only if skill 7 is still on cooldown? Most people that you find in LFD aren't even properly specced or don't know the stat weights for their class.

Aside from that, they are not well-prepared for the challenge that endgame content brings. If you do any random dungeon from level 1-80, chances are that nobody really follows a set "strategy" for the bosses and that everything is just tank-and-spank. Now that we have more heirlooms than ever, things are dying ridiculously quick and not much thought has to be given towards how to do a boss fight properly, because the boss just drops like a fly. Level 85 content is a whole different ballgame; mechanics need to be followed, otherwise you will wipe. If you don't interrupt arcane storm, you will wipe. If you don't stack on the tail for blackout, you will wipe. If you don't run to the right platform, you will wipe.

Players these days are hitting level 85 and looking to PuG their way into raids, but many of them are not nearly as prepared as they should be. One may argue that the content is too difficult and needs to be nerfed, but I would argue against that. These mechanics are not difficult, but they are indeed drastically harder than anything 1-84 is, and the average player is just overwhelmed by the ramp up in difficulty. Nerfing endgame content will make things more accessible for the more inexperienced players, yes, but some restraint and caution has to be exercised when nerfing; nerf it too much and you remove the need for a player to MAKE himself a better player, and it may ultimately further promote "bad" playing.

If something is too difficult, it can be frustrating. However, if something is not difficult enough, there is no individual effort to rise up to the challenge. Endgame content is supposed to be difficult for a reason, and that is to make players work for and earn their gear, not simply have it handed to them.
 
Disposed said:
I like a challenge i dont like the lazy idea of using trash pulls to make the challenge. I especially cant stand using trash to artificially lengthen the time it takes to get anything done.

Banging our head against the wall on a hard boss for 3 hours is one thing, taking 3 hours to get to him saps the fun completely out of it.
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I don't agree that having hard trash is "lazy". The only difference between trash and boss is that the boss is guaranteed to give loot. Just consider the trash to be phase 1 of the boss and you should be happy.

At some point every enemy in the game will become "trash" once they no longer have useful items for you.
 
SLiGuy said:
My opinion on this is that the average player is not adequately prepared for the challenges of heroics, much less raiding. Part of that blame is on the game itself. It is very difficult to raid or even do a 5-man successfully without the use of DBM. Players these days can also level to 85 but still not know about how to properly spec, gem, enchant, reforge, etc., and game mechanics are not explained well in the game itself. How is a player supposed to know that he needs 26 expertise in order to be capped, otherwise he is gimping his DPS? How is someone supposed to know that you are supposed to use skill 1/2/3/4/5, in that order, and use skill 6 if it procs, but only if skill 7 is still on cooldown? Most people that you find in LFD aren't even properly specced or don't know the stat weights for their class.

Aside from that, they are not well-prepared for the challenge that endgame content brings. If you do any random dungeon from level 1-80, chances are that nobody really follows a set "strategy" for the bosses and that everything is just tank-and-spank. Now that we have more heirlooms than ever, things are dying ridiculously quick and not much thought has to be given towards how to do a boss fight properly, because the boss just drops like a fly. Level 85 content is a whole different ballgame; mechanics need to be followed, otherwise you will wipe. If you don't interrupt arcane storm, you will wipe. If you don't stack on the tail for blackout, you will wipe. If you don't run to the right platform, you will wipe.

Players these days are hitting level 85 and looking to PuG their way into raids, but many of them are not nearly as prepared as they should be. One may argue that the content is too difficult and needs to be nerfed, but I would argue against that. These mechanics are not difficult, but they are indeed drastically harder than anything 1-84 is, and the average player is just overwhelmed by the ramp up in difficulty. Nerfing endgame content will make things more accessible for the more inexperienced players, yes, but some restraint and caution has to be exercised when nerfing; nerf it too much and you remove the need for a player to MAKE himself a better player, and it may ultimately further promote "bad" playing.

If something is too difficult, it can be frustrating. However, if something is not difficult enough, there is no individual effort to rise up to the challenge. Endgame content is supposed to be difficult for a reason, and that is to make players work for and earn their gear, not simply have it handed to them.
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This is very true.

The fact that you really do have to seek outside resource to play this game properly is one of its biggest downfalls.

When the content was easier and less people noticed failures it wasnt so bad but now that its more punishing those not "In the know" are easily spotted and its the game to blame for this.

I look back at the endless hours i spent on EJ reading the info and on rawr to perfect my build/rotation/gear choices it really is quite silly in hindsight.

More work needs to go into the leveling process and something needs to be done to discourage "leveling builds" and encourage people to use the builds and rotations they would at 85 to have a better understanding. The game should be explaining these mechanics from 1-84 not make everything a cakewalk then bam ding 85 and everythings difficult.
 
SLiGuy said:
My opinion on this is that the average player is not adequately prepared for the challenges of heroics, much less raiding. Part of that blame is on the game itself. It is very difficult to raid or even do a 5-man successfully without the use of DBM. Players these days can also level to 85 but still not know about how to properly spec, gem, enchant, reforge, etc., and game mechanics are not explained well in the game itself. How is a player supposed to know that he needs 26 expertise in order to be capped, otherwise he is gimping his DPS? How is someone supposed to know that you are supposed to use skill 1/2/3/4/5, in that order, and use skill 6 if it procs, but only if skill 7 is still on cooldown? Most people that you find in LFD aren't even properly specced or don't know the stat weights for their class.

Aside from that, they are not well-prepared for the challenge that endgame content brings. If you do any random dungeon from level 1-80, chances are that nobody really follows a set "strategy" for the bosses and that everything is just tank-and-spank. Now that we have more heirlooms than ever, things are dying ridiculously quick and not much thought has to be given towards how to do a boss fight properly, because the boss just drops like a fly. Level 85 content is a whole different ballgame; mechanics need to be followed, otherwise you will wipe. If you don't interrupt arcane storm, you will wipe. If you don't stack on the tail for blackout, you will wipe. If you don't run to the right platform, you will wipe.

Players these days are hitting level 85 and looking to PuG their way into raids, but many of them are not nearly as prepared as they should be. One may argue that the content is too difficult and needs to be nerfed, but I would argue against that. These mechanics are not difficult, but they are indeed drastically harder than anything 1-84 is, and the average player is just overwhelmed by the ramp up in difficulty. Nerfing endgame content will make things more accessible for the more inexperienced players, yes, but some restraint and caution has to be exercised when nerfing; nerf it too much and you remove the need for a player to MAKE himself a better player, and it may ultimately further promote "bad" playing.

If something is too difficult, it can be frustrating. However, if something is not difficult enough, there is no individual effort to rise up to the challenge. Endgame content is supposed to be difficult for a reason, and that is to make players work for and earn their gear, not simply have it handed to them.
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Doing the math for expertise and hit or whatever to be capped is one thing (the game tells you if you are hit capped but I don't know about expertise as I don't play melee) but you DO NOT NEED DBM FOR ANYTHING. Most people in my guild don't bother with DBM and 8/10 of us don't even read/watch videos about the fights. I use tukui, recount, and magenuggets and the only reason I use mage nuggets is because I don't like squinting at my buff bar.
 
Well, a lot of the thrill in the MMO early days was in not having every strat posted for everyone to use. You basically were on your own for most things. It's so dumbed down nowadays that it's almost TOO easy.
That's why old-school EQ1 was a lot of fun. Nobody really knew what to expect with the exception of the uber-guilds who had the strats and weren't really inclined to share them.. :)
Going to do a mob and learning how to bring it down was something i'll remember in both EQ1 and WoW.
(Well that and camping for loot drops...hehe)
 
Valshistixol said:
Doing the math for expertise and hit or whatever to be capped is one thing (the game tells you if you are hit capped but I don't know about expertise as I don't play melee) but you DO NOT NEED DBM FOR ANYTHING. Most people in my guild don't bother with DBM and 8/10 of us don't even read/watch videos about the fights. I use tukui, recount, and magenuggets and the only reason I use mage nuggets is because I don't like squinting at my buff bar.
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How far is your guild in terms of progression? Please enlighten me on how you do new encounters if only 2 people in your raid use DBM and nobody reads strategies or watches videos of the encounter.

DBM is not required by any means. My raid leader actually doesn't even use DBM himself. It makes things a lot easier, though. Take Cho'gall as an example; if you were to do the encounter for the very first time with no prior knowledge and without DBM running, you would be overwhelmed with how much is going on; DBM will tell you things such as when Worship is off CD, how long until he summons another Adherent, when Fire/Shadow phase start, how many seconds until the next shadow nova, who shadow crash is on, etc. DBM and reading up on strats beforehand certainly helps in learning these mechanics.

But you are right, DBM is not necessary. Back in vanilla WoW we did things blind, most guilds would just run in there and aggro the boss with no idea what the hell the strat was like, just looking at their surroundings in order to try to figure out what's going on. That's also why it took forever to down bosses, though.

Also, regarding stats: the game sort of tells you when you are expertise "capped". It shows the % that a boss will be able to dodge and parry your attacks. The cap to push doges off the table is lower than the cap to push parries off the table. That is why the cap is 26, because that is just enough to ensure that a boss cannot dodge one of your attacks. The boss can still parry your attacks. The reason you do not want to push parries off the table is that you should ALWAYS be attacking from behind if you are melee, and bosses cannot parry if you are behind them, only if you are in front. The average player has no way of knowing this other than looking it up outside the game, and might just look at the in-game expertise panel and try to have enough so that the percentages read "0%" for both dodges and parries. Furthermore, the game does not tell players which stats are better for their class. A piece of plate gear with hit and haste on it will probably be BiS for a DK because they love both of those stats, but downright terrible for a Warrior because we strongly prefer Crit and Mastery instead (at least for TG).
 
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ABout learning - Devs said, that in 4.2, there will be thing like "dungeon diary". It will explain the strategy needed to defeat the boss, what loot he drops and so on.

I guess it will help a lot, otherwise it might happen like yesterday in Stonecore, on this lovely 3rd giant boss :p
"[T]ank: Mage, you youse spellsteal on him?
[M]age: Yes
[T]: You damn noob, get out of the group, you are ueseless (and other expletives in leet speak)
[M]: But noone told me I shouldn't do it
[T]: has left the group"
 
MorgothPl said:
ABout learning - Devs said, that in 4.2, there will be thing like "dungeon diary". It will explain the strategy needed to defeat the boss, what loot he drops and so on.

I guess it will help a lot, otherwise it might happen like yesterday in Stonecore, on this lovely 3rd giant boss :p
"[T]ank: Mage, you youse spellsteal on him?
[M]age: Yes
[T]: You damn noob, get out of the group, you are ueseless (and other expletives in leet speak)
[M]: But noone told me I shouldn't do it
[T]: has left the group"
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Wow .. what a sad state that game has come to. Now the encounters get explained in game for bosses? People can't just look up strats online or learn via trial and error?

So much has changed for this game. Seems like I made the right choice in November 2009.
 
Godmachine said:
Wow .. what a sad state that game has come to. Now the encounters get explained in game for bosses? People can't just look up strats online or learn via trial and error?

So much has changed for this game. Seems like I made the right choice in November 2009.
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The encounter journal will not give the strategy for killing a boss, but it will give information about what abilities the boss has. It's up to you to figure out how you want to go about defeating it.
 
SLiGuy said:
My opinion on this is that the average player is not adequately prepared for the challenges of heroics, much less raiding. Part of that blame is on the game itself. It is very difficult to raid or even do a 5-man successfully without the use of DBM. Players these days can also level to 85 but still not know about how to properly spec, gem, enchant, reforge, etc., and game mechanics are not explained well in the game itself. How is a player supposed to know that he needs 26 expertise in order to be capped, otherwise he is gimping his DPS? How is someone supposed to know that you are supposed to use skill 1/2/3/4/5, in that order, and use skill 6 if it procs, but only if skill 7 is still on cooldown? Most people that you find in LFD aren't even properly specced or don't know the stat weights for their class.

Aside from that, they are not well-prepared for the challenge that endgame content brings. If you do any random dungeon from level 1-80, chances are that nobody really follows a set "strategy" for the bosses and that everything is just tank-and-spank. Now that we have more heirlooms than ever, things are dying ridiculously quick and not much thought has to be given towards how to do a boss fight properly, because the boss just drops like a fly. Level 85 content is a whole different ballgame; mechanics need to be followed, otherwise you will wipe. If you don't interrupt arcane storm, you will wipe. If you don't stack on the tail for blackout, you will wipe. If you don't run to the right platform, you will wipe.

Players these days are hitting level 85 and looking to PuG their way into raids, but many of them are not nearly as prepared as they should be. One may argue that the content is too difficult and needs to be nerfed, but I would argue against that. These mechanics are not difficult, but they are indeed drastically harder than anything 1-84 is, and the average player is just overwhelmed by the ramp up in difficulty. Nerfing endgame content will make things more accessible for the more inexperienced players, yes, but some restraint and caution has to be exercised when nerfing; nerf it too much and you remove the need for a player to MAKE himself a better player, and it may ultimately further promote "bad" playing.

If something is too difficult, it can be frustrating. However, if something is not difficult enough, there is no individual effort to rise up to the challenge. Endgame content is supposed to be difficult for a reason, and that is to make players work for and earn their gear, not simply have it handed to them.
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This is why I do not play WoW anymore. When people like yourself expect everyone else to care only about maximizing dps or healing, it is not fun anymore. Does maximizing make things easier? yes, does it take the fun out of a game? yes.
 
darkstarcow said:
This is why I do not play WoW anymore. When people like yourself expect everyone else to care only about maximizing dps or healing, it is not fun anymore. Does maximizing make things easier? yes, does it take the fun out of a game? yes.
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The same can be said about players like you who expect to be carried through content and handed loot without putting in any effort. If min maxing isn't your thing fine, don't raid.
 
Speaking of min/max... I don't get into raids, as well, I know that my gear is not totally maxed and so on, thus I'm happy with just HC. I'm doing fine there, and raids are too much of bother for me - I hate voice chat, can't spend that much time for a full raid, besides I'd rather go RPing for 2 hours then raid, but to everyone its own. But... I'm not ruining everyone's raids with "I've to go, I've no gear but I want to" attitude. If I'm left with doing my things, I won't be raining on your parade :) I hereby agree of being called "casual wow player", but I do not demand VP/JP and best purple gear just for logging on :)

On the other hand, I do agree that people should learn at least a bit how to play. DPS DK in blood presence, mages breaking CC with AoE, huntards with pets on agressive... that's all too common recently, and waiting 15 mins for HC, to see group failing because people have no idea and, what's more important they do not listen it's irritating.

And one more thing, just a class question. I made a warlock recently, but I'm not sure, as for leveling PVE/dungeons, till level 30 and dual spec, should I go with affliction or demonology first. :) Anyone could help me with that?
 
Demonology has always been my favorite spec for warlock leveling, but I haven't leveled a warlock since Burning Crusade.
 
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KaOTiK said:
Honestly and I am not knocking you for this, but it just sounds like you want to get good gear quick and easy like you could in WOTLK.

It was ridiculous how easy getting high end gear was in LK. There were people with fresh 80s a day later in full tier gear already.

Personally for me, the only reason my sub is going still is cause I have a lot of gold left I am selling still. I have no desire to raid anymore, and pvp in the game is a joke and has been for a long long time. Soon as I'm done unloading the rest of my few hundred K of gold left I'm gone I think.

Cata has a lot of new shinyness but in the end it is just meh cause the new shinyness is a ton of old stuff with basically.
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agreed ive been raiding BOT and BWD since launch still not in full purps though we are now doing heroic lol. Still havn't gotten my helm and shoulder token. In wow I left right at Uldar launch while wearing full Teir 7.5 came back for ICC, and in 3 weeks was in Teir 10, it was just to easy.


As for raids why not?

BOT and BWD to down the first few bosses requires DPS with 3 heals 2 tanks on 10man to do 12k thats easy, 25man with 6 heals, 3 tanks DPS needs to do 13k that is also easy, in full 346 on my hunter and my paladin at the time i could pull 15k on hunter and 14k on Paladin
 
I know quite a few people selling their accounts off now is the time if your going to get out IMO. One of my buddies is getting about 3k for his toon. He's looking forward to Guild Wars 2 to play it.
 
222 1/3 evil said:
I know quite a few people selling their accounts off now is the time if your going to get out IMO. One of my buddies is getting about 3k for his toon. He's looking forward to Guild Wars 2 to play it.
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I got offered 2500 for my account

Lvl 85 Hunter raid geared i361 ilvl 525 JC/Enchanting
Lvl 85 Paladin Prot ilvl357, Ret ilvl355, Holy ilvl354 525 Mining/Blacksmith
- Thunderufry, Sulfuron, Val'anar, Shadowmourne, Rivendares DeathCharger, Tiger and Raptor mounts lvl 60 ZG, Amani War Bear (ZA Original), Teir 1, Teir 2, Teir 3!!!!, Teir 5, Teir 6 (all 8), Teir 7.5, Teir 10.277
Lvl 81 Paladin 525 Alchemy/Engy
Lvl 77 Mage 525 Tailor/Herb

Also have X-58, Travelers Thundra Mammoth, Chopper, Helicoptor (on engy), Albino Drake, Red Drake, Black Drake, Blue Drake, ICC Drake
 
insaneshell said:
I got offered 2500 for my account

Lvl 85 Hunter raid geared i361 ilvl 525 JC/Enchanting
Lvl 85 Paladin Prot ilvl357, Ret ilvl355, Holy ilvl354 525 Mining/Blacksmith
- Thunderufry, Sulfuron, Val'anar, Shadowmourne, Rivendares DeathCharger, Tiger and Raptor mounts lvl 60 ZG, Amani War Bear (ZA Original), Teir 1, Teir 2, Teir 3!!!!, Teir 5, Teir 6 (all 8), Teir 7.5, Teir 10.277
Lvl 81 Paladin 525 Alchemy/Engy
Lvl 77 Mage 525 Tailor/Herb

Also have X-58, Travelers Thundra Mammoth, Chopper, Helicoptor (on engy), Albino Drake, Red Drake, Black Drake, Blue Drake, ICC Drake
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As someone who has been buying and selling game accounts for over 10 years i call bullshit on both claims. Wow ended the days of accounts being worth thousands, the only places that try and sell for that much are the gold farmer sites. You have a $500 account at most.

If someone offered you 2500 you should have taken it because that would have gotten you an account better than yours and $2k to spare.

Of course there are always idiots with too much money but accounts are just not worth that much these days.
 
I've for sure noticed the problem with scaling that SLIguy talks about. The game goes from trivial to hard in the blink of an eye. I really have no problem with a game being anywhere on the difficulty scale. Hard can be good, simple can be good. The problem is when it changes drastically without any kind of curve and training. It is not fun or fair to gamers to have something that is very easysauce that requires no coordination, as WoW is to start, and then suddenly jump to a challenge that requires some serious teamwork, as WoW does. You either need to have it start hard, so that only the people more interested in harder gameplay go for it, or better yet have a smooth ramp up so people can learn as they go, and plateau where they are comfortable.

I was amazed at how hard Cata heroics were and how there was nothing in between. WoTLK heroics were easy but then so was the leveling and the regular dungeons so it made sense. They were just a little harder, which is what you'd expect: Each step up is a minor one. Cata heroics were fairly ridiculous.

I also dislike the lack of in game information. They seem to want to present you with no info on how to do things which means either figure it all out yourself, or use external resources. Again, not good game design. You want to introduce players to what they need in the game itself for the most part.

I had a good run with WoW, played it many years, but it just doesn't do it for me anymore. The problems with high end scaling are a big part of that.
 
I'm running into that issue as well, it can take HOURS to finish Z'A/Z'G due to really bad players in a random pick up. The percentage of bad is extremely high too. I find having to at least get three of my guildies on and carry the 2 pugs through just to get it done. And if they are REALLY bad, I find that if I go to boot them it frikken says 'Player can't be removed for 2 hours'. WHAT? Did I over boot people and now I can't anymore? WTF?
 
Disposed said:
As someone who has been buying and selling game accounts for over 10 years i call bullshit on both claims. Wow ended the days of accounts being worth thousands, the only places that try and sell for that much are the gold farmer sites. You have a $500 account at most.

If someone offered you 2500 you should have taken it because that would have gotten you an account better than yours and $2k to spare.

Of course there are always idiots with too much money but accounts are just not worth that much these days.
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Allow me to clarify: He has WELL over 200k gold, has every epic end game raiding peice of loot for his class with the addition of the highest ilvl PVP gear one can get, 98% of the achievements possible, EVERY mount available, almost every pet, maxed out proffs with every receipe, and is the #1 lock on his server? Yeah they did offer it, and he's getting it.I've seen the email, and the correspondence back and forth. Dude has been playing since day one, no alt's just that one toon since vanilla.

I can get $500 easy out of my account with three 85's on it, but my kid plays the game.
 
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darkstarcow said:
This is why I do not play WoW anymore. When people like yourself expect everyone else to care only about maximizing dps or healing, it is not fun anymore. Does maximizing make things easier? yes, does it take the fun out of a game? yes.
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Exactly. My Brothers and I were casual players all 6 years, finally got into Raiding in Wrath, and had a blast running casual 10mans. We weren't worried about getting the best gear score items, or achievements, that's just lame :rolleyes:

But now with Cataclysm, the fun is completely gone, everyone bitches on what spell or tactic you use in a 5man, and if your DPS is low, hey freak out, saying you suck with that class, etc...You now have to make WoW a job, you punch the time clock, and go to work, trying to build up your gear, and it's just a numbers game now. Name should be changed to World of Gearcraft.
 
Zorachus said:
Exactly. My Brothers and I were casual players all 6 years, finally got into Raiding in Wrath, and had a blast running casual 10mans. We weren't worried about getting the best gear score items, or achievements, that's just lame :rolleyes:

But now with Cataclysm, the fun is completely gone, everyone bitches on what spell or tactic you use in a 5man, and if your DPS is low, hey freak out, saying you suck with that class, etc...You now have to make WoW a job, you punch the time clock, and go to work, trying to build up your gear, and it's just a numbers game now. Name should be changed to World of Gearcraft.
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It has always been this way though. Back in the old days of the 40 mans in WoW gear was something that was desirable. You couldn't craft it or PVP with it. And you had to deal with 40 mans which weren't pugable.

Heck you got to enjoy guild drama just as much as the game, but holy hell when you had a group of 20 - 40 people in ZG/MC it was fun and you had some lee-way for getting away with certain things till BWL and AQ.

In my opinion old WoW was way better than today. Gear inflation has killed the game. Too much gear, too many instances, not enough good instances like MC was minus the trash.
 
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