Wow, apparently no one knows what surround sound, DTS, DD and EAX are. Let's clarify.

Stoly said:
your statement is somewhat inaccurate. To date there is no HDMI 1.3 support on the PC, so you are pretty much limited to DD and DTS. Hopefully this will change soon.
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HDMI 1.3 isn't required for multichannel LPCM streams (up to 8 channels on HDMI 1.0). Current HDMI-equipped AMD cards are limited to stereo 24-bit/48kHz though.
 
phide said:
HDMI 1.3 isn't required for multichannel LPCM streams (up to 8 channels on HDMI 1.0). Current HDMI-equipped AMD cards are limited to stereo 24-bit/48kHz though.
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It should be noted the next generation of AMD cards apparently have 7.1 24-bit/192kHz support.
 
Very informative, thank you. Could I ask that you either add to this thread, or start a new one explaining how audio in Vista works in respect to all these formats, since natively Vista seems to have issues with surround sound.

I recently picked up a Denon A/V reciever (plus speakers) with Coax in, and grabbed the Asus Xonar D2X which has a Coax out and supports DDL and DTS out amongst other stuff, which the A/V can decode. I've actually stuck to DDL so far and it sounds good, but was wondering about your "DTS being better" comment, are we just talking about higher bitrates for the encoding?

I can set my Asus card to spit out DTS encoded signal across the Coax output, and my A/V reciever does indeed decode that correctly since when it's set to auto detect the DTS light comes on, so due to your comments about DTS being superior I'm wondering if it's best to swtich? I understand it may require more cpu time, and thats a non issue, I have a dual core @ 3.0Ghz which is plenty fast enough.

Anyhow I've enabed the GX technology that comes with the Asus cards now (driver update) and that seems the enable 5.1 surround sound in Vista for games that use DX9's direct sound, which previously weren't possible due to Vistas stereo limitation. As I understand it, this just converts all the directsound calls to the equivlent OpenAL calls, which Vista can deal with.
 
It's not that Vista has trouble with surround sound, it's just that driver developers are lazy bastards and companies like Creative would rather sell you a new "Vista certified" card. Vista's audio system is dratically changed from previous versions in that, in simplified terms, DirectSound no longer functions as it did. Anything that did not use DirectSound works fine in Vista.

That's why drivers like Creative ALchemy are being developed, which intercepts DirectSound calls and sends them to the OpenAL driver. Asus GX works in a similar fashion, except it's not OpenAL on the other end. These drivers just add a sort of "legacy support" for games that use the DS3D method.

Edit: I should clarify that this is my understanding of the situation thus far. I have only recently installed Vista on my HTPC. Edit 2: Having done some research for myself, it seems that Asus' version might be better, as it provides a universal layer for DS3D calls. ALchemy, on the other hand, only patches games that it supports.
 
Excellent thread to read. Thanks for the clarity, S-B.

I have the Auzentech Prelude 7.1 on Vista SP1 x64 & I've been using DDL to pump all of my PC's audio through optical to a Logitech Z-5500 Digital. I've been extremely pleased with the sound of games, music & movies going through it.

Does anyone know if Daniel_K's custom drivers will work the X-Fi Notebook ExpressCard?
 
alcuin said:
Besides SoundStorm, there's also the Creative DTS encoder. Granted it's not being sold anymore, but neither is SoundStorm. Also, the DTS encoder isn't a sound card, but it has the advantage of being able to be used with any sound card with no cpu performance penalty.

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=16&product=14191
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Yeah, everyone always forgets about the DTS-610, which is a shame, because it was a great little device. I still use mine and probably will continue to do so until Auzentech releases their HDMI add-on card.
 
bump and recommend sticky.

'Elite' is not a bad word if you know what you're talking about, especially in the world of mouthy intarweb fanbois that spout misinformation as dogma. Keep it as is.
 
S-B said:
Edit:Dolby Digital Live / DTS Interactive / DTS Connect: These are real-time encoders. Basically, they take all of the sound that was supposed to go the analog output of your sound card, encode it to DTS or AC3 in real-time, and then pass it through S/PDIF. You only need this if you have an external decoder (usually an A/V receiver with speakers hooked up).

Note that these are software-based solutions, and as such use CPU cycles.
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I didn't realize that DDL was software based. Another argument AGAINST using it, at least for gaming, anyway. I wonder what the actual FPS impact is on using DDL vs. analog out.
 
great read OP, hopefully I can re-read it and understand and hope I made the right decision with my audio card ;)
 
Balthazor said:
I didn't realize that DDL was software based. Another argument AGAINST using it, at least for gaming, anyway. I wonder what the actual FPS impact is on using DDL vs. analog out.
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Actually, that is incorrect. Both DDL and DTSI can be done in either software or hardware, depending on the device you purchase. It is true that a lot of sound cards us a software-based solution, but with the speed of current CPUs, I imagine the performance hit from sound processing has become negligible.
 
PC -> Analog output -> A/V receiver -> Speaker set (if your receiver can take analog inputs)

PC -> Encode with DTS Interactive / Dolby Digital Live -> A/V receiver / decoder -> Speaker set over S/PDIF (if your receiver can decode a DTS or AC3 stream over S/PDIF input)
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What is the point of the A/V receiver in these two configurations? Do A/V receivers usually have better DAC's than good sound cards? (Xonar DX) If so, I can see the use of an A/V receiver with a digital connection, but why in the analog connection?
 
The receiver acts as the speaker amplifier in these scenarios. "Speaker set" means 5 or 7 unamplified (passive) speakers.
 
phide said:
The receiver acts as the speaker amplifier in these scenarios. "Speaker set" means 5 or 7 unamplified (passive) speakers.
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Does amplifying mean making the signal stronger? In what way is this better than using "active" speakers? And how do you tell if a speaker is passive or active?
 
Can anyone help me out with getting DDL to work on the x-fi? Creatives hissy fit with daniel_k made this impossible. I refuse to give those ass hats more of my money.
 
I tested Half-Life Lost Coast and FEAR using analog out and dolby digital out and saw no significant difference in FPS.

I didn't test CPU utilization, which as an afterthought is something that might have been useful. Neither of these games are CPU-limited at the resolutions I was testing at, so I suppose you wouldn't see much difference in these scenarios anyway.
 
LiquidusX said:
Does amplifying mean making the signal stronger?
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The analog outputs on a sound card are line level, meaning they output at a very low voltage with very little power. Speakers need much more power to produce sound, so the signal has to be amplified quite a bit.

LiquidusX said:
In what way is this better than using "active" speakers?
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Not necessarily any better or worse, just different. Active speakers are still amplified, but their amplifiers built-in so they can directly accept line level signals.

LiquidusX said:
And how do you tell if a speaker is passive or active?
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If you're looking at the specs of an active speaker, you'll see that there's a clearly defined power, measured in watts, meaning that's how much powerful the internal amplifier can output. The specs for passive speakers will indicate a recommend range of power, like 50 to 100 watts, and/or a maximum wattage, indicating that you shouldn't overpower the speaker with a very powerful amplifier. Active speakers will also have line level inputs, whereas passive speakers will only be able to accept speaker level inputs (speaker cable).
 
Balthazor said:
For Creative, only the Titanium officially uses DDL at the moment. The Auzentech Prelude is the only other X-Fi card around that also does so.

However, Creative announced that for a small fee they'll have a software upgrade for all X-Fi users to use DDL:

http://forums.creative.com/creative...hread.id=122808&view=by_date_ascending&page=2

The fee is to cover royalty fees they have to pay for the Dolby Digital, it appears.
Click to expand...

$4.72 sounds like a great price to upgrade your x-fi to include ddl.
 
S-B,
You mentioned the sound card "HT Omega Striker 7.1", I recently purchased that card before reading your post. I first purchased it and thought it could do a spdif pass through without tempering with the source, however it seems that it has to encode it into ddl/dtsi 5.1.

Here is my question after reading your post, it seems to me that ddl/dtsi is simply repackaging the source into one stream to pass into my receiver to decode, however it seems to change everything into 5.1.
For example, if I play a movie, and it's a 5.1 source which is fine, however when I play a mp3 file that is 2 channel, my receiver will receive 5.1, why is that, what am I doing wrong? The receiver is set to output "straight" that is to output whatever input without any additional process, therefore no fake 5.1 added to the source.

I could set the receiver to output 2 ch only which I read from the manual is that the receiver mix the source into a 2 channel then output. Wouldn't that degrade the sound, since we take the source and turn it into 5.1 then back into 2.

From the way it looks, it is not doing "bit perfect" if that is even making any sense.

What I am doing wrong? or does this card simply want to change everything it takes into 5.1, I thought you say that dts-i is just repackaging all into one stream? Why does it change the source into 5.1? You seem to recommend this card for pc -> receiver setup

What do I need? Is my setting wrong? What does ac3filter do, I tried it, it doesn't putput 2 channel to my receiver either?

thank you
 
The simple solution is to use Foobar2000 to play your music, with the ASIO plugin. It bypasses Windows' kmixer and outputs it straight through S/PDIF. It's also considerably superior to anything else out there.

AC3Filter can do this as well. Below the speaker setting dropdown, enable the "Use S/PDIF" checkbox. Also go to the SPDIF tab, make sure AC3, DTS and MPEG Audio are checked under "SPDIF passthrough". Change other settings as needed for your receiver in "SPDIF" and "System".

That'll get you bitperfect for your music (in Foobar) and anything encoded in DTS, AC3 or MPEG Audio (movies/DVD/Blu-ray, DVD-Audio), in XP at least. AC3Filter's passthrough doesn't work in Vista IIRC, can't be sure though, my system is dead right now.
 
S-B,

Now that Auzentech has integrated DTS Connect into the X-Fi Prelude drivers, I can happily say the DTS over optical sounds way better than Dolby Digital Live. Thanks for your thorough information.
 
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