WoW; 6h expansion Legion

So, one of the things i caught is that the viewing distance is increased up to 3x what it is now. I have a single 780. Im going to assume the game that will make me upgrade my rig is going to be wow which makes me laugh. So i have a few months to buy another SSD for raid0 (have you ever used the machinima tool to increase the view distance? damn its demanding) and upgrade my single WC 780. I also hope to have a 21:9 monitor or running surround vision again. So ill need 2 gpus, another 240gb ssd and another radiator. The details released today are awesome.
 
Zorachus said:
WoW is on life support, and won't recover. Right now down to 5.5 million subs, and before the new expansion release watch that number drop much lower still. And then the insane 12 to 14 months drought of nothing new at all between expansions, is just bleeding subs away.

WTF, Blizz said way back during Cat, they would move forward with expansions on a 12 to 18 month max release schedule. Never once has that happened yet. Why anyone supports this game anymore is beyond me. Shitty graphics, super mind numbing boring grindy gameplay. And it's basically become World of Raidcraft and nothing else. If you don't Raid there's zero point to play after you reach end level.
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Good, let it die. This is the price they pay for catering mainly to the ~10% of the subscriber base that raid. You can't give everything meaningful in the game to a tiny fraction of your subscriber base and expect everyone else to stick around when they have nothing worth a fuck to look forward to. When Blizzard did throw us filthy, rotten, "casuals" a bone, oh how the raiders bitched and moaned. And Blizzard listened. Well, I hope they enjoy their ghost town servers and year+ old raids.
 
Reus said:
Good, let it die. This is the price they pay for catering mainly to the ~10% of the subscriber base that raid. You can't give everything meaningful in the game to a tiny fraction of your subscriber base and expect everyone else to stick around when they have nothing worth a fuck to look forward to. When Blizzard did throw us filthy, rotten, "casuals" a bone, oh how the raiders bitched and moaned. And Blizzard listened. Well, I hope they enjoy their ghost town servers and year+ old raids.
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This 10% you demean are the lifeblood of WoW. They stick around. Their active sub month after month, year after year is what Blizz can project to still be around when everyone else leaves. They are exactly the people I would be attempting to placate and cater too. These people live for WoW. Their allegiance is 150%. They don't give a damn about having 300 facebook friends, having 1k followers on twitter, women (or men), school, meaningful careers, big houses, expensive cars, or the like. They just want to raid. They want to be in the top raiding guilds on their server, have the best geared toons on their server, top raid charts, and accomplish progression that very few other players in the game match. WoW is were these people can be unique, and raiding can make that happen. Keep them happy, and 10 years later - they'll still be around.

OTOH, the filthy casuals (like yourself) are the ones you can't count on to stick around. They don't give a crap about the lore of the storyline or the history of the game. They pick the game up because it's a MMO with a ton of content, or they head about it from a friend, or because it's easily the most populous MMO out there still. They have 0 real allegiance compared to the raiders. They play for a bit here, or for a bit there, then quit. They see these damn raiders walking around with all of this badass gear that they and their 5 minutes of time spent don't have a prayer of acquiring, get pissed off that Blizz hasn't made it so that their 5 minutes of time rewards them in the same way that 4 hours of the raiders' time rewards them - then rage-quit. Blizz could devote one xpac after another for these types and they would still call it a boring old formula, a rehash of old stuff, and still quit. Blizz could give them one wave of welfare epics after another, one dumbed down instance/raid after another to get them - but they'd still call it a grind and then leave. Blizz could hand out free auto-levels and no-time-required rewards, but they'll call it boring and then quit. They are exactly the types that Blizz shoudn't bother trying to lock down. Return on investment is nill with the filthy casuals.

Blizz unfortunately did try to cater to the masses of filthy casuals after TBC, and look where it's gotten them - lowest sub numbers ever.

If WoW is to survive, Blizz must go back to making the game unmercifully challenging with the raids/instances, and grandly reward the players who commit the most time into it with gear/titles/achievements that are simply unattainable by any other means in-game.
 
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atp1916 said:
This 10% you demean are the lifeblood of WoW.
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Nope. Casuals are the life and blood of the game. They don't demand much, they buy store mounts and pets, they pay for subscription, log in one a week to do LFR and do their own casual stuff. Without them the monthly fees would be triple of what they are now to sustain the development of the new content. Don't mock causuals, they pay for your game.

atp1916 said:
If WoW is to survive, Blizz must go back to making the game unmercifully challenging with the raids/instances, and grandly reward the players who commit the most time into it with gear/titles/achievements that are simply unattainable by any other means in-game.
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So basically, you want WoW to turn into Wildstar, right? Apparently you have no idea how catering to ultra-hardcore works out. :)
 
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atp1916 said:
This 10% you demean are the lifeblood of WoW. They stick around. Their active sub month after month, year after year is what Blizz can project to still be around when everyone else leaves. They are exactly the people I would be attempting to placate and cater too. These people live for WoW. Their allegiance is 150%. They don't give a damn about having 300 facebook friends, having 1k followers on twitter, women (or men), school, meaningful careers, big houses, expensive cars, or the like. They just want to raid. They want to be in the top raiding guilds on their server, have the best geared toons on their server, top raid charts, and accomplish progression that very few other players in the game match. WoW is were these people can be unique, and raiding can make that happen. Keep them happy, and 10 years later - they'll still be around.

OTOH, the filthy casuals (like yourself) are the ones you can't count on to stick around. They don't give a crap about the lore of the storyline or the history of the game. They pick the game up because it's a MMO with a ton of content, or they head about it from a friend, or because it's easily the most populous MMO out there still. They have 0 real allegiance compared to the raiders. They play for a bit here, or for a bit there, then quit. They see these damn raiders walking around with all of this badass gear that they and their 5 minutes of time spent don't have a prayer of acquiring, get pissed off that Blizz hasn't made it so that their 5 minutes of time rewards them in the same way that 4 hours of the raiders' time rewards them - then rage-quit. Blizz could devote one xpac after another for these types and they would still call it a boring old formula, a rehash of old stuff, and still quit. Blizz could give them one wave of welfare epics after another, one dumbed down instance/raid after another to get them - but they'd still call it a grind and then leave. Blizz could hand out free auto-levels and no-time-required rewards, but they'll call it boring and then quit. They are exactly the types that Blizz shoudn't bother trying to lock down. Return on investment is nill with the filthy casuals.

Blizz unfortunately did try to cater to the masses of filthy casuals after TBC, and look where it's gotten them - lowest sub numbers ever.

If WoW is to survive, Blizz must go back to making the game unmercifully challenging with the raids/instances, and grandly reward the players who commit the most time into it with gear/titles/achievements that are simply unattainable by any other means in-game.
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I couldn't agree with you more.

Well said.
 
atp1916 said:
This 10% you demean are the lifeblood of WoW. They stick around. Their active sub month after month, year after year is what Blizz can project to still be around when everyone else leaves. They are exactly the people I would be attempting to placate and cater too. These people live for WoW. Their allegiance is 150%. They don't give a damn about having 300 facebook friends, having 1k followers on twitter, women (or men), school, meaningful careers, big houses, expensive cars, or the like. They just want to raid. They want to be in the top raiding guilds on their server, have the best geared toons on their server, top raid charts, and accomplish progression that very few other players in the game match. WoW is were these people can be unique, and raiding can make that happen. Keep them happy, and 10 years later - they'll still be around.

OTOH, the filthy casuals (like yourself) are the ones you can't count on to stick around. They don't give a crap about the lore of the storyline or the history of the game. They pick the game up because it's a MMO with a ton of content, or they head about it from a friend, or because it's easily the most populous MMO out there still. They have 0 real allegiance compared to the raiders. They play for a bit here, or for a bit there, then quit. They see these damn raiders walking around with all of this badass gear that they and their 5 minutes of time spent don't have a prayer of acquiring, get pissed off that Blizz hasn't made it so that their 5 minutes of time rewards them in the same way that 4 hours of the raiders' time rewards them - then rage-quit. Blizz could devote one xpac after another for these types and they would still call it a boring old formula, a rehash of old stuff, and still quit. Blizz could give them one wave of welfare epics after another, one dumbed down instance/raid after another to get them - but they'd still call it a grind and then leave. Blizz could hand out free auto-levels and no-time-required rewards, but they'll call it boring and then quit. They are exactly the types that Blizz shoudn't bother trying to lock down. Return on investment is nill with the filthy casuals.

Blizz unfortunately did try to cater to the masses of filthy casuals after TBC, and look where it's gotten them - lowest sub numbers ever.

If WoW is to survive, Blizz must go back to making the game unmercifully challenging with the raids/instances, and grandly reward the players who commit the most time into it with gear/titles/achievements that are simply unattainable by any other means in-game.
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I agree 100%
 
Zorachus said:
WoW is on life support, and won't recover. Right now down to 5.5 million subs, and before the new expansion release watch that number drop much lower still. And then the insane 12 to 14 months drought of nothing new at all between expansions, is just bleeding subs away.
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Umm...5.5 million * $15/month = $82.5 million a month in revenue I would NOT call that life support. Sure it is less than half of the peak subscribers, but still is an insane player base compared to other MMOs. Blizzard will be turning a profit on WoW for another 5 years, and most likely 10+.
 
zoobaby said:
Umm...5.5 million * $15/month = $82.5 million a month in revenue I would NOT call that life support. Sure it is less than half of the peak subscribers, but still is an insane player base compared to other MMOs. Blizzard will be turning a profit on WoW for another 5 years, and most likely 10+.
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anigif_enhanced-buzz-2031-1374526665-15.gif


$990 million a year....

Good lord.

It's a billion dollar a year MACHINE.
 
Am I the only one that thinks PvP is all Blizz is catering to? And not the cool WPvp? The gay ass arenas?
 
horrorshow said:
anigif_enhanced-buzz-2031-1374526665-15.gif


$990 million a year....

Good lord.

It's a billion dollar a year MACHINE.
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At the peak, 12 million subscribers...~$2 billion/year. Wrap your noodle around that!

Yeah, significant numbers have left, but it is still a billion a year cash cow.
 
OEM said:
Am I the only one that thinks PvP is all Blizz is catering to? And not the cool WPvp? The gay ass arenas?
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Yeah. It is one of the reasons I stopped playing. I couldn't get into arenas.
 
atp1916 said:
Blizz unfortunately did try to cater to the masses of filthy casuals after TBC, and look where it's gotten them - lowest sub numbers ever.
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Funny, WotLK came out right after TBC and during that time, WoW enjoyed its highest subscription count ever:

http://www.powerwordgold.net/2013/07/world-of-warcraft-subscribers-2005-2013.html

So understand I'm a bit skeptic of your "catering to casuals" argument regarding WoW's decline.


Personally I think the problem is lack of quality content, overused raid and boss mechanics, and lackluster story and lore. Everything "new" that's coming out has a "been there, done that feel", there's nothing fresh coming to the table. And so people are just tired of the same old same old, and are looking for new experiences elsewhere.
 
SCSI-Terminator said:
Funny, WotLK came out right after TBC and during that time, WoW enjoyed its highest subscription count ever:

http://www.powerwordgold.net/2013/07/world-of-warcraft-subscribers-2005-2013.html

So understand I'm a bit skeptic of your "catering to casuals" argument regarding WoW's decline.


Personally I think the problem is lack of quality content, overused raid and boss mechanics, and lackluster story and lore. Everything "new" that's coming out has a "been there, done that feel", there's nothing fresh coming to the table. And so people are just tired of the same old same old, and are looking for new experiences elsewhere.
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Exactly. Wrath was my fav, and the most popular time ever for WoW, even though people complained Blizz got weak, and tuned the game down for casuals, but by the end of Wrath the game saw 12.6 million subs, the highest ever.

No way are the 5.5 million subs left, all the [H]ardcore Raid crowd. WoW's Raid scene was NEVER that large, it was at best like 10% to 20% of the sub population, from what I've read over the years.

Reason the sub population has been cut in half, and dropping, isn't that WoW is easy mode. It's because it's an 11 year old game, and the same old same old, with really dated graphics, and nothing truly different or fresh anymore. And I agree 5.5 million subs is still a crazy amount and great for Blizzard, but the population has lately been dropping at an alarming rate, and for sales that's not good. Who want's to be content with dropping sales, but say, meh who cares we still have 5.5 million ? With that attitude, ti will drop a lot more, and then they'll be scratching their heads, wondering what happened, after it's too late.

Blizzard needs a fresh MMO, either a WoW-2, or World of Diablo or something, on a brand new game engine, with new thoughts and ideas on doing an MMO after WoW. And of all companies, Blizzard should have learned and know best how to create a great next gen MMO.
 
It's funny that people complain about WoW when every other MMO has yet to live / prosper like WoW has. For an 11 year old game it's already pretty god damn impressive.

I for one am hyped about all the new changes. I tried Wildstar but just could not give a shit about the story or anything to hold me down long enough to care. WoW I actually like the lore and love how they're going back to the whole class "fantasy" thing. It's awesome.
 
SCSI-Terminator said:
Funny, WotLK came out right after TBC and during that time, WoW enjoyed its highest subscription count ever:

http://www.powerwordgold.net/2013/07/world-of-warcraft-subscribers-2005-2013.html

So understand I'm a bit skeptic of your "catering to casuals" argument regarding WoW's decline.


Personally I think the problem is lack of quality content, overused raid and boss mechanics, and lackluster story and lore. Everything "new" that's coming out has a "been there, done that feel", there's nothing fresh coming to the table. And so people are just tired of the same old same old, and are looking for new experiences elsewhere.
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I agree. I am not sure what I want in a new WoW though. I like the idea of Garrisons, but now I don't even socialize. There was something about being in Ironforge and having EVERYONE there running around. I like the big city ideas. Shat was nice, but not the Vanilla Ironforge experience.
 
ReconSniper said:
I agree. I am not sure what I want in a new WoW though. I like the idea of Garrisons, but now I don't even socialize. There was something about being in Ironforge and having EVERYONE there running around. I like the big city ideas. Shat was nice, but not the Vanilla Ironforge experience.
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Wrath had the biggest WoW sub population ever, and Dal city was always jammed packed, crowded, and I loved how it was a Faction shared city.

Since Wrath, they've yet to make another shared city again. And instead spread the population out everywhere, thus causing dead empty cities.

Logging in today, where your character is all alone in his Garrison, just kills the whole MMO idea IMO. Personally I think Garrisons were a horrible idea, made the game feel single player almost, and not a giant populated world.
 
Zorachus said:
Personally I think Garrisons were a horrible idea, made the game feel single player almost, and not a giant populated world.
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Phasing/Zone Instancing did the same thing many expansions ago. This game hasn't been "massively multiplayer" for a long while.
 
Zorachus said:
Blizzard needs a fresh MMO, either a WoW-2, or World of Diablo or something, on a brand new game engine, with new thoughts and ideas on doing an MMO after WoW. And of all companies, Blizzard should have learned and know best how to create a great next gen MMO.
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They already tried with Titan and failed. Now we have Overwatch instead.
 
I think a World of Diablo or whatever would be freakin' amazing.
 
Erasmus354 said:
They already tried with Titan and failed. Now we have Overwatch instead.
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Not really. Titan was a game like Borderlands / Destiny. It ended up too close in concept with Destiny, that's why it was canned. The Titan's in-game pvp matches were resurrected as Overwatch. That's my theory.
 
ashmelev75 said:
Not really. Titan was a game like Borderlands / Destiny. It ended up too close in concept with Destiny, that's why it was canned. The Titan's in-game pvp matches were resurrected as Overwatch. That's my theory.
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That's what I've heard too, that Titan was NOT WoW-2 or World of Diablo at all, but a new first person Steampunk themed MMO, that they realized it just wasn't working.

I still think a World of Diablo on an new Blizzard game engine, would be amazing, and be a hot seller, you'd get a majority of the WoW fan base back, and new ones too.
 
atp1916 said:
Blizz unfortunately did try to cater to the masses of filthy casuals after TBC, and look where it's gotten them - lowest sub numbers ever.
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Ever? Look again.

It's also an 11 year old game. Attrition will, eventually, take it off.

However, they're still around 5 MILLION subs. Basically any other still-running MMO produced in the last 10 years would kill for even a SMALL fraction of those numbers.

So, I'm not saying some of their previous choices didn't accelerate their user bleed. Just that griping about there "only" being 5 million subs is kinda like some rich snob griping because their caviar was a fractional degree too warm.
 
Played till endgame Cata and thankfully when they caved to appease the asian market with MoP i quit with no desire to go back

i play a private Wotlk (wow mania) here and there
 
Dunno what the hell they are waiting on in terms of doing a World of Diablo. IMHO, they could re-live the most glorious days of WoW with subscription numbers reaching those all time high points again as these games cater to the exact same audiences for the most part. I just tire of the same world, re-skin it with Diablo and new classes and put a couple of new spin on things and you've got a winner, don't even have to reinvent the wheel.
 
delita said:
Dunno what the hell they are waiting on in terms of doing a World of Diablo. IMHO, they could re-live the most glorious days of WoW with subscription numbers reaching those all time high points again as these games cater to the exact same audiences for the most part. I just tire of the same world, re-skin it with Diablo and new classes and put a couple of new spin on things and you've got a winner, don't even have to reinvent the wheel.
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Agreed 100% :)
 
This is not a I'm mad post, I was cheating and got what i had coming.
So im unbanned! I used honorbuddy to bot old instances for mounts while i was at work like twice a week. Never looted anything other then the mount, would leave then come back. Never made ANY money with the bot. well, every 100 toon i had was put to lvl 90. every gold on every toon on every server is gone. All my arena and pvp titles are gone from every season... even though i only started botting 6 months before the ban (12 months ago, ban was for 6 months). All my gladiator achievements and pvp ranks are what hurt the most. I had a season 2 gladiator title. Merciless Gladiator was earned in The Burning Crusade... it was one of my most prized wow possessions and I dont even know if botting existed then. I feel like I should almost just make a new account because I cant even enter competitive pvp anymore which i do almost every year (arena servers). All because my greed for the stratholme mount and ashes of alar. While im glad i have it back, It just hurts, and I know it was a ban wave... why my arena titles though, you cant even bot arena =[
 
If it isn't painful it isn't a punishment. You obviously care about the titles, and they're gone, so you have a real deterrent to not bot anymore if you started a new account and got titles.
 
I need to buy a razer naga like right now, Relevel and smash Legion in its face competitively. I play with some of the best players in the world. Time to get back into shape.
 
I just want an MMO which isn't instanced every fucking thing. I'm sorry but when I can queue up for anything with just click a button from a menu then it's not an MMO to me anymore. If I want to play LoL or DOTA I'd do that.

Give me SWG 2 or AC 3, or UO 2.
 
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So the pre expansion patch is coming out tomorrow the 19th.

I haven't played since the WoD launch the first few months, and instantly got bored with the entire player housing thing, making the game feel single player, and not giving that MMO feel anymore.

Garrisons we're a big turn off.
 
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Very much torn on this. Classic "prior time investment" mentality trying to lure me back, but I don't have the same desire anymore. Grim Dawn and plenty of other games occupy my time, but who knows. I might check it out.
Need to get my eGPU setup.
 
I was a big WoW player from launch through end of Wrath. Played 4 or 5 nights a week for those years. Never taking a break time off.

Then it slowed down a lot with Cat, just playing couple nights a week. Then I took my first major break, cancelling subscription for close to a year.

MoP got me back for awhile, but that was like 6 to 9 months I played like 3 or 4 nights a week. Then quit for awhile.

WoD killed the game for me, I played at launch for two or three months, and haven't touched the game since.
 
I am in the same boat but I will fire my account back up after this patch tomorrow and will play for a few months and then quit again.
 
As someone who has played the Legion beta a decent amount, I have some pretty high hopes for the expansion (especially compared to WoD). They seem to be fixing just about everything that made people hate WoD. Class halls are basically multiplayer garrisons, but they've learned that people still want a capital city hub. They've also added a lot of things you're going to want to do out in the world (quests, mythic+ dungeons, etc), so you're not going to want to sit in your class hall all day. Nearly all classes play completely differently, and the new animations are night and day better than before. I'm really looking forward to it, tbh. I've suffered through WoD for a long time now (granted, my guild has been on break for about 3.5 months since we cleared mythic hfc several times), and I am definitely ready for the new stuff.
 
zoobaby said:
Umm...5.5 million * $15/month = $82.5 million a month in revenue I would NOT call that life support. Sure it is less than half of the peak subscribers, but still is an insane player base compared to other MMOs. Blizzard will be turning a profit on WoW for another 5 years, and most likely 10+.
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Any other MMO would be over the moon to be bringing in the kind of cash that WoW brings in.

In addition to bringing in nearly $1 billion in revenue annually, they ALSO charge $49 for each expansion, which works out to roughly another $500 million. I believe they WoD sold 10 million copies and there was a massive spike in subscriptions immediately after its release.
 
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