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Worst RTS ever!
- Thread starter 1TMF26
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 3,260
The Warcraft series, mainly. Just don't like the style.
Many who say they don't like GB, RoN, etc. Seems to me y'all prefer the actual battles as opposed to the resource gathering? I like that.
Many who say they don't like GB, RoN, etc. Seems to me y'all prefer the actual battles as opposed to the resource gathering? I like that.
Polish Ninja
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2005
- Messages
- 283
War Inc. was the worst RTS ever.
Json23 said:
Well I can't say I played Generals or Tiberan Sun much, but the old C&C, the original and Red Alert 1,2 relied very heavily on unit spamming. They required a decent mix of units, but in the end, like most RTS games, it was just who could keep throwing units into the meat grinder.
I don't know why you think Dawn of War hinges so critically on building and replacing a few units. There are key units to any game, without your early hero you'll lose badly, a fast dreadnought or defiler can ruin any infantry man's day, ect.
I've found DoW to be very balanced early in the game, Orks might have a bit of an advantage massing slugga boy squads (assault marines make quick work of them though) but on the whole it's very hard to go into that first engagement over the center resources without the ability to win.
After that, sure if you leave an opponent in that donimate resource position too long you'll lose almost every time, but that's no different than in every other RTS that you gather resources. DoW makes it a bit worse by allowing you to reinforce infantry at the point of attack, but that generally only serves to finish off a beaten opponent faster.
If you didn't find any strategy other than unit spamming in those games then you did not play them more than a few times. RA2 and the old CnC have almost as much strategy options that the Generals: Zero Hour expansion introduced.
I can tell you right now, if you come at my base with a bunch of any one thing in Zero hour, I will crush you (thanks to massive amount of strategy options available) before you know what hit you. You have to use strategy to beat anyone in the CnC games, unit spamming RARELY is effective at doing anything other than wasting resources.
I just can't say that with DoW.
thedork said:
Were you actually good at sc? I find many people hate it b/c they don't take the time to learn the intricacies of the game, and then just label the game "it sucks". Which I find is bogus.
And if you don't mind me asking, what is RA2?
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2001
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- 12,770
Worst RTS ever was Total Annihilation: Kingdoms. Maybe it was a good game on it's own but it was such a complete letdown from the previous game that hardly anyone even remembers it anymore while i still know people that play the 1997 Total Annihilation on basically a daily basis.
Json23 said:
Any RTS worth a damn isn't going to let 1 unit walk over the entire battle field, and I didn't claim C&C had ever done that. I don't fault the early C&C one bit for being a pretty basic rock paper scissors battle design, it was the norm in that day. And C&C did that effectively for games of their day. But the idea that some one can get out resourced, out numbered against a competent player and win consistently is false.
In a resource gathering RTS, the vast majority of the time, the player who puts the most resources onto the battlfield wins. Obviously that's not neccessrily the case if there's a huge discrepency in the skill of the players, but a clearly better player can choose at will how to win most of the time.
If unit spamming is so effective in Dawn of war, what unit do you suggest spamming?
Getting and keeping resources is part of the strategy. I can't tell you how many times I have stayed at base and let the enemy waste money securing a few extra resource spots just so I can come in and take them out because they didn't spend their resources in a better light.
Don't get defensive, I wasn't attacking you.
Depends on what race/what time in the game you are going to spam. Early on you only have a few choices, which you better be sure and crank out as many units as possible as early as possible because I promise your enemy is going to "peon" rush you like EVERYONE does playing online with that game.
There is no defense unless you have more units than the enemy. If you have less, you will lose everytime with a peon rush in DoW.
Json23 said:
Sure, employing those resources on the battlefield is every bit as important as gathering them to start with. A massive resource gathering operation, and no military defense is a loosing endevore. Dawn of War is deffinately not a game you'll enjoy if you like to turtle and stirke only when you're certain it's to your advantage.
That's why I've been following up with it's about putting resources onto the battlefield that wins RTS games.
If all you're resources are tied up in gather and depositing resources, you'll lose. If all your resources go towards consistently putting a larger military into the battle (and consquently, better maintaining your reinforcements) you'll win.
Same caveats as before of course, a clearly superior player can win even without a resource advantage, but then again he can pick and choose how to win with little effort.
I didn't think I was getting defensive, emphatic maybe, but not defensive. I'm always up for a good discussion on game mechanics.
Json23 said:
Sure, it's a starcraft-ish start, in that you can pop up a pretty good sized military pretty quickly. It's not Age of Kings where you spend 6-10 minutes just setting up your economy and mapping out your opponent's position.
But the first minute or two you're all equal in resources and resource gathering, there shouldn't be any reason you go into combat for the contestable resource points down a lot of people. It's generally not disaster if you go in down a squad, the fact that an entire squad is taken out of action to capture a resource points makes it a very viable strategy to harrass the enemy and prevent them from caping the resource points while you tech up to something more useful (like Assault marines against the orks, or armor and melee upgrades for your slugga boyz).
Pick a situation, I'll tell you a cost effective and timely counter.
You're telling me no one played Conquest Earth? 
Easily the worst RTS ever made, tied with Lords of Everquest maybe.
Honestly, I never liked WC3. I prefer my RTS to be more strategic, more about planning, unit positions, etc, and not so much about micromanaging a super-unit (Hero) with 10-15 units. The entire C&C series along with TA were my favorites.
Easily the worst RTS ever made, tied with Lords of Everquest maybe.
Honestly, I never liked WC3. I prefer my RTS to be more strategic, more about planning, unit positions, etc, and not so much about micromanaging a super-unit (Hero) with 10-15 units. The entire C&C series along with TA were my favorites.
WorldRunner
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2004
- Messages
- 454
Killdozer said:
Wasn't TS actually teased at the end of C&C? OR was it red alert. I'm pretty sure it was C&C original. I remember that... There was some short trailer about it...then yeah...the endless delay and dissapointing game. I actually liked it...but was a bit dissapointed.
Also...all of you who said RoN...I'm writing your names down...just in case I'm ever in a position of ultimate authority over all internet citizens...or you need some kind of favor from me.
You've been warned...
After you beat the game, there was a Walker-Mech teaser related to Tiberium Sun. And yes, of all the games in the series, that was not their best moment. Still, it was fun enough for me not to demand my money back.
They made up for it with Red Alert 2 ten fold IMO.
HopePoisoned
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2005
- Messages
- 229
WC3 is a nation of its own - I know some real players, and there's really fun stuff in there
i hear Rome Total War was good....
i hear Rome Total War was good....
I love CnC games, but I also really liked Starcraft. I even tried my hand at making a few maps back in the day. Of course, those are on a Pentium 150MHz laptop with a broken screen sitting in my closet somewhere. I'll have to dig it out and fire it up sometime. Those were the days...
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[Spectre]
I Will Find You
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2004
- Messages
- 24,889
It is definately Stonkers
Dark Assassin
Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 605
Well, in essence, all RTS games truly suck. They are based off a mathematically calculable set of outcomes and predictable factors such as unit cost, strategies, etc. War simply doesn't cater to such a thing.
However, the sheer concept doesn't mean that many of the more profound titles such as Warcraft, Age of Empires, or Civilization are crap, per se. They simply cater to differing tastes. It's what makes our country great!
I must say though, the sheer concept of "balance" in this genre is heartbreaking. The Zerg pretty much ALWAYS dominate the Terrans in virtually every scenario! Look at all the cutscenes!
And a final thought: Even though I really don't even game anymore, I can't wait to see Battle For Middle Earth II! I want to see how the elves play. I guess I'm just a sucker for that universe.
Dark Assassin
However, the sheer concept doesn't mean that many of the more profound titles such as Warcraft, Age of Empires, or Civilization are crap, per se. They simply cater to differing tastes. It's what makes our country great!
I must say though, the sheer concept of "balance" in this genre is heartbreaking. The Zerg pretty much ALWAYS dominate the Terrans in virtually every scenario! Look at all the cutscenes!
And a final thought: Even though I really don't even game anymore, I can't wait to see Battle For Middle Earth II! I want to see how the elves play. I guess I'm just a sucker for that universe.
Dark Assassin
Cousin Patty
Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 634
Json23 said:
This is nonsense. Ive played all the classic RTS's and Dawn of War is my favorite RTS ever, along with Total Annihilation. Whats not to like about it? Great races, great units, squad based combat, morale, and to top it off, none of this farming/mining crap that got old a long time ago. Capturing strategic points on the map...it doesnt get more strategic than that. Thats what real war is about.
Worldhammer
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2004
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- 426
Rise of Nations, totally overhyped by review sites. I got it expecting great things fully intending to like it. However it has my most hated AI cop out. The good ol pester the living shit out of you but not be truly effective unless you are an idiot AI.
Galactic Battlegrounds: No Attack move option, WTF!
Galactic Battlegrounds: No Attack move option, WTF!
No one mentioned Empire Earth II? It ate my CPU/GPU power for damn near nothing really...the campaigns pretty much sucked, the "future" campaign story was B-Movie worthy, etc.
C&C Generals was a decent RTS...the incessant patriotic grating of the American units was annoying me by the 4th or 5th battle however. You can only take "Defending freedom!" x times before curling into the fetal position and not building tanks What happened to the good ol' "Aye, sir!" or the continous poking that would result in "Stop poking me!"..."Poke poke poke, is that all you do?".
C&C Generals was a decent RTS...the incessant patriotic grating of the American units was annoying me by the 4th or 5th battle however. You can only take "Defending freedom!" x times before curling into the fetal position and not building tanks
What happened to the good ol' "Aye, sir!" or the continous poking that would result in "Stop poking me!"..."Poke poke poke, is that all you do?". I liked the constant patriotic phrases. But my all time favorite is " Can I please have some shoes " from the GLA workers.
CnC Generals is all about online play though. The single player campaign was weak. Plus and CnC campaign is just not a campaign UNLESS Cain is in it somewhere.
The worst RTS i ever played would be Black and White, If you could call that an RTS. Fun at first but became incredibly annoying "We need more babies", "We need more food", "More Babies", " More Food", "MORE BABIES", "MORE FOOD" AAAAAAAAAAAAH FFS, GRAB SOME BREAD AND SHAG! CANT YOU SEE I'M BUSY CLEANING UP COW DUNG!! "MORE BABIES", "MORE FOO.. AAAAAAH FFS! Add/Remove Programs. Uninstall. OK? *Click*
If you don't consider that an RTS, then i'd say Perimiter. That game was confusing and too hard for me. A typical game would be..... hmm need some troops, *click* building..... building...... building....... Ah a swarm is attacking, building......building.....building. Units Ready. Bang all dead by some big centipede thing...*click*.. building.....building. Another swarm, shields down.... building....building.... Base destroyed. WTF?? Add/Remove Programs. Uninstall. OK? *Click*
If you don't consider that an RTS, then i'd say Perimiter. That game was confusing and too hard for me. A typical game would be..... hmm need some troops, *click* building..... building...... building....... Ah a swarm is attacking, building......building.....building. Units Ready. Bang all dead by some big centipede thing...*click*.. building.....building. Another swarm, shields down.... building....building.... Base destroyed. WTF?? Add/Remove Programs. Uninstall. OK? *Click*