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Woodcrest

D

DaMaDo

Gawd
Joined
May 31, 2001
Messages
681
So, I've been wanting a new computer and I was going to get an e6600 mobo and ram, which would cost about $1k b/c of the 2 gigs of PC2 8000 or whatever it was. I was also planning on getting a new case and some quieter air cooling gear since I'm gonna get out of WC for a bit.

Then I saw the Mac Pro for $2499 with two Xeon 2.66 woodcrest processors and I'm really tempted. I figure I'd ask in the intel forum to get less apple !!!!!! replies hehe. I have been using a mac mini for a while as my email/web shopping computer and the one listed in my sig for games, but running native windows XP and OSX on this mac pro seems like a nice option.
What do you think?
 
DaMaDo said:
So, I've been wanting a new computer and I was going to get an e6600 mobo and ram, which would cost about $1k b/c of the 2 gigs of PC2 8000 or whatever it was. I was also planning on getting a new case and some quieter air cooling gear since I'm gonna get out of WC for a bit.

Then I saw the Mac Pro for $2499 with two Xeon 2.66 woodcrest processors and I'm really tempted. I figure I'd ask in the intel forum to get less apple !!!!!! replies hehe. I have been using a mac mini for a while as my email/web shopping computer and the one listed in my sig for games, but running native windows XP and OSX on this mac pro seems like a nice option.
What do you think?
Click to expand...

If you like Mac OSX (as do I) and you have that kind of money to spend that sure is one awesome computer. And with 2 woodcrests that is Balzing fast. Get it.
 
Cool, I have 3 days until the stores get them in so I have time to mill it over, but unless someone convinces me otherwise, I think I'll jump on it and throw my 7800 GTX or a X1900XT in there. I'd also get a $200-300 student discount. Considering newegg is selling the OEM processors for $1500 for both, it's not TOO much of a ripoff to go with the mac pro...at least that's the story I'm telling myself.
 
DaMaDo said:
Considering newegg is selling the OEM processors for $1500 for both, it's not TOO much of a ripoff to go with the mac pro...at least that's the story I'm telling myself.
Click to expand...
Is anyone else selling dual-Woodcresft systems for anything close to $2500? Most of the vendors we've been pricing are coming in much higher than that. If Boot Camp is stable, this may be a viable option for an XP workstation.
 
DaMaDo said:
Cool, I have 3 days until the stores get them in so I have time to mill it over, but unless someone convinces me otherwise, I think I'll jump on it and throw my 7800 GTX or a X1900XT in there. I'd also get a $200-300 student discount. Considering newegg is selling the OEM processors for $1500 for both, it's not TOO much of a ripoff to go with the mac pro...at least that's the story I'm telling myself.
Click to expand...

Don't count on that 7800gtx to work in a Mac Pro. The new macs use efi instead of a traditional bios and I think its very unlikely that a normal pc video card will work.
 
Discostu2120 said:
Don't count on that 7800gtx to work in a Mac Pro. The new macs use efi instead of a traditional bios and I think its very unlikely that a normal pc video card will work.
Click to expand...

Ah. Hmm, if that's the case I'd have to upgrade to the X1900XT for $350 =/

A friend was gonna get me one for $190...

I was hoping with the intel change that most PC stuff would work.
 
Discostu2120 said:
Don't count on that 7800gtx to work in a Mac Pro. The new macs use efi instead of a traditional bios and I think its very unlikely that a normal pc video card will work.
Click to expand...


It would have to be a bios issue hands down since this is an Intel chipset, CPU,... hell board design. :D

Edit... I also noticed that it have a PCIe video card already. I bet if you run windows on it you could get a 7800gtx to work. Would be a gamble though.
 
I'm sure someone will come out with hacked drivers at some point...at least I hope!
 
DaMaDo said:
Ah. Hmm, if that's the case I'd have to upgrade to the X1900XT for $350 =/

A friend was gonna get me one for $190...

I was hoping with the intel change that most PC stuff would work.
Click to expand...

You're right, most PC stuff will work. However, in an attempt to prevent people from installing os x on generic pc hardware apple moved to efi (extensible firmware interface) with tpm (trusted platform module). Basically they are trying to lock down the whole system so only their main hardware components can be used (motherboard, video, sound). This should make it difficult to use your 7800gtx.

Go to osx86project.org and ask some of the guys there, they know much more about this than I. I'm posting this in OS X 10.4.7 on my PC laptop by the way.
 
I'd say go for it. I saw a Dell XPS ad yesterday that had a Allendale 6300 system for $2500 :eek: side by side, Apple is making a very appealing offer. I like what they've done with the Mac Pro. Up to 3 PCIe gfx cards, another optical drive bay, and the method they've devised for installing hard drives is genius.

I say go for it with the base system and add some extra RAM in there later (remember, you need ECC ram for these)
 
Check out these pics

Hopefully they will be at the store on thursday. I bet i'll have to wait a bit for them to configure it with the vid card though. It should just take a day hopefully if they have the card in stock.

I'll need to find good ECC ram for it.

I wasn't planning on overclocking, but just out of curiosity, can you OC a mac?

Someone just posted this on engadget so more and more it seems like a great deal:

I just configured a dual dual core xeon system from Alienware. And one from Dell.

Apple:

Dual 2.66 (2 cpus)
2GB RAM
250GB HD
Superdrive
Quadro FX 4500 512MB
Price: $4,449.00

Alienware:

Dual 2.66 (2 cpus)
2GB RAM
250GB drive
Superdrive
Quadro FX 3500 256MB
Price: $6,041.00

Dell:

2.66 dual core xeon (2 cpus)
2GB RAM
Quadro fx 4500
Superdrive
250GB drive
Price: $5300.00

Yeah, Apple hardware is overpriced... :p

Posted at 5:49PM on Aug 7th 2006 by rip [ ! ]
Click to expand...
 
I think its an awesome system.

I can't stand Apple just b/c there's not enough compatible software/games for me. But I would definitely consider getting Apple's newest PC , the MacPro. Yeah I said "PC" b/c you can run windows on it. So you could have the best of both worlds and undoubtedly the fastest desktop system around.

Now, if you could just adjust the multipliers or FSB on the system.... ie: OVERCLOCKING!! then I WOULD DEFINITELY buy one. Dell, Apple, HP, etc.... need to have hidden in their BIOS overclocking options.... like the Gigabyte trick where you have to hold down like Ctrl+F1 while booting to get to it, then have warnings like the Intel motherboards about overclocking. That would make me seriously considering buying a prebuilt PC.

BTW, a dual core Xeon @ 2.66Ghz at Alienware is like $3,700. (other components are different, but I think the Apple is a better deal.)

http://alienware.com/Configurator_Pages/mj-12_8550i.aspx?SysCode=PC-MJ12-8550I&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT
 
The Mac Pro is BY FAR the best deal on a dual Woodcrest machine. Go ahead and buy it if you need it, but remember that games are usually not heavily multi-threaded. The Mac Pro is intended for professionals, not gamers.
 
Black Morty Rackham said:
The Mac Pro is BY FAR the best deal on a dual Woodcrest machine. Go ahead and buy it if you need it, but remember that games are usually not heavily multi-threaded. The Mac Pro is intended for professionals, not gamers.
Click to expand...


I was pretty amazed when I saw the price myself. The only drawback i see is that it's not a PC... which means that you have to deal with the minimal software available. Really a great deal for the professional though. What I'm wondering is if there are "hacks" available to run different hardware and OS. I know you can boot windows on it... but the hardware thing might be an issue with their bios. The board is PURE Intel so in theory you should be able to run everything that a PC can run... provided the bios doesn't hold you back. Pretty cool imho... let's me look at appl,e in a new light. If you could get the compatability to that of a PC with a similar price.... apple could easily be a force in the OEM market with their reputation and recognition.
 
Poncho said:
I was pretty amazed when I saw the price myself. The only drawback i see is that it's not a PC... which means that you have to deal with the minimal software available. Really a great deal for the professional though. What I'm wondering is if there are "hacks" available to run different hardware and OS. I know you can boot windows on it... but the hardware thing might be an issue with their bios. The board is PURE Intel so in theory you should be able to run everything that a PC can run... provided the bios doesn't hold you back. Pretty cool imho... let's me look at appl,e in a new light. If you could get the compatability to that of a PC with a similar price.... apple could easily be a force in the OEM market with their reputation and recognition.
Click to expand...


You can run Windows on Intel Apple computers. Look up Bootcamp on Apple's website :)
 
synergyo1 said:
You can run Windows on Intel Apple computers. Look up Bootcamp on Apple's website :)
Click to expand...


Poncho said:
I know you can boot windows on it... but the hardware thing might be an issue with their bios
Click to expand...

Yea... kinda knew that. :D
 
Yeah I am probably going to jump on it once they have the built to order ones shipping a lot quicker. Right now the hold up is the bluetooth/wireless card since aparently they are upgrading that to something new.

If you go to Newegg and price two woodcrest 2.66s and one woodcrest mobo, you're looking at about $2k right there. The Mac Pro with student/military discount is $2299-2399 depending if you buy in store or online. So $300 more gets you the expensive RAM, a nice case, PSU, optical drive, vid card, etc....

The jury is still out on whether PC vid cards will work, but according to Nvidia's website theire 7xxx series is OSX compatible. I figure maybe the newer vid cards have both bios/efi capability for futureproofing etc.
 
I doubt any regular graphics card will work under OSX. It'll most likely work fine under Windows.

Given what I said above someone should try this.

Keep the default video card that comes with the Mac in its slot. Buy another regular PC graphics card and insert it into another slot. Just disable the Mac card when running under Windows. I'm not sure how the machine will react when running in OS X though.
 
Meh, I just ordered it. I got impatient lol. Without the ATI card it's 2-4 weeks rather than 3-5 weeks. I have a 7800GTX that I'll try when I'm in windows and leave the 7300 in there for OSX if OSX doesn't like the 7800GTX. I'll mainly be in windows anyway.

The student discount was a nice $200. I also downgraded the HD to 160 and I'll use the money to buy another seagate 7200.9 (the mac pro stock one) or the 7200.10...not sure, I care more about quiet than performance right now so I'll have to see is the .10 will be quiet enough.

The only options I needed were wireless and bluetooth and I upgraded to wireless KB/Mouse b/c it was cheap.

I'll wait for a company to come out with RAM for the mac pro to upgrade to 2 or 4 gigs rather than get hit by apple's hefty upgrade prices.
 
Dell seemes to catch up with the price point - you can get a Precision 690 workstation with two 2.66GHz Woodcrests, 2 Ggigs of Ram, entry level Quadro card and a fugly case for about the same money (2600$).
The Mac Pro looks sweat, but the Dell is a little better for workstation use (16 ram slots) and gamin (1kW PSU and SLI support).
 
Hmm, I just priced one at Dell for $3208 with the same chips, HD, RAM etc.
Be sure to add the second CPU...dell almost seems to want to trick people as you actually have to click the bar to drop down the options for the second CPU. That adds another $800+
 
Why not build one yourself?

I priced out two Woodcrest 3.0Ghz chips at $900 each, the board, $550

That's $2300, I am sure you can get a video card, ram, harddrive, dvd rom, and os, case and PSU for $1000 - $1200 more.


If I thought I could game and video edit / music but mostly game, I would drop the $3500 I have right now.
 
Four 2.66GHz Woodcrest cores.
That's gotta be the equivalent to like an Athlon 13000+ performance index.
(Of course that's only if you can use all 4 cores, Lightwave and AfterEffects and HDTV encoding come to mind)

~10 GHZ
25-50% faster per cycle than Athlon?
Is that about right?
 
SixFootDuo said:
Why not build one yourself?

I priced out two Woodcrest 3.0Ghz chips at $900 each, the board, $550

That's $2300, I am sure you can get a video card, ram, harddrive, dvd rom, and os, case and PSU for $1000 - $1200 more.


If I thought I could game and video edit / music but mostly game, I would drop the $3500 I have right now.
Click to expand...

Yeah that setup would be nice, but I didn't want to spend over $2500. I also wanted something that was quiet, and looked really elegant. Besides the price, the aethetic value kept me with the apple. I'll still have my HTPC to tinker with =)

I'll be mostly gaming with it...mostly WoW.
I'd like to get into vid editing this year too and maybe some CAD type stuff.
 
kenc3dan said:
Four 2.66GHz Woodcrest cores.
That's gotta be the equivalent to like an Athlon 13000+ performance index.
(Of course that's only if you can use all 4 cores, Lightwave and AfterEffects and HDTV encoding come to mind)

~10 GHZ
25-50% faster per cycle than Athlon?
Is that about right?
Click to expand...

It's pretty fast, my dual 5150 nets me 900 ppd folding, so it's not too bad. I'm waiting on my Precision 690, ordered it roughly 3 to 4 weeks ago, so we'll see how long it take me to get my SLI woodcrest system, dual 5150s and dual quadro 3450s, 4 gigs of FB-dimms, should be a sweet little box.
 
ND40z: Has Dell got SLI working on the Precision 690's yet? I was going to order one until I saw GamePC's review of the Intel 5000 series chipset. Apparently it lets you use two PCI-Express video cards in the machine to drive quad displays, but does not as of yet support true SLI. I called Dell to express my concern over this before I placed my order and their techs confirmed that this is true. They said that the dual Quadro option is for users wanting to drive more than two displays, but that true SLI functionality is not supported on the chipset.

Please report back and let us know if you are able to get it working on your machine.
 
I'll let you know, I was under the impression that the quadro drivers let you do SLI on the Intel chipset, but I guess I'll find out. Either way, I'll be driving 3 displays with it (2405 and 2 1905s), but I'm pretty sure SLI with Quadros lets you do multiple displays when it's enabled. Right now I have a x800GTO2 and x600 driving my displays, so it should be a nice upgrade.
 
Alright, I'm dragging this one back out from the dead, today I received:

1 1 222-3750 Dell Precision 690 Mini-Tower Dual Core Xeon Proc 5160 3.00GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 1333MHz
1 1 311-6279 2nd Processor,Dual Core Xeon Proc 5160,3.00GHz,4MB L2 Cache1333, Dell Precision 690
1 1 311-6352 8GB, DDR2 ECC SDRAM Memory 667MHz, 8X1GB in Riser, Dell Precision 690, Factory Install
1 1 310-7950 USB Enhanced Multimedia English Keyboard, Dell Precision Workstation
1 1 320-4686 Dell UltraSharp 2007FP,Wide Flat Panel w/Height AdjustableStand,20.0 Inch VIS,OptiPlex Precision and Latitude
1 1 320-4767 SLI config w/2X512MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX4500 cards in graphics riser, Dell Precision
1 1 341-3682 160GB Serial ATA, 10K RPM HardDrive with 16MB DataBurst Cache, Precision 380
1 1 341-3378 C1- All SATA Hard Drives Non- RAID for 1 to 2 Hard Drives, Dell Precision 690
1 1 341-3690 3.5inch,1.44MB,Floppy Drive Dell Precision 490/690 Factory Install
1 1 420-5258 WINDOWS XP PRO x64, with MediaDell Precision, English Factory Install
1 1 310-7958 Dell USB 2-Button Optical Mouse with Scroll for Dell Precision
1 1 313-4285 16XDVD AND 16XDVD+/-RW w/Cyberlink Power DVD,Roxio Digital Creator Dell Edition Dell Precision X90
1 1 313-4148 Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic(D), w/Dolby Digital 5.1, DellPrecision 690
1 1 313-4028 Dell AS501 black Sound Bar forUltraSharp Flat Panel Displaysfor Optiplex, Precision, Latitude
1 1 313-4143 Resource CD contains Diagnostics and Drivers for Dell Precision 690, Factory Tied
1 1 341-3852 750GB SATA 3.0Gb/s, 7200RPM Additional HardDrive w/16MB DataBurst Cache,Dell Precision690
1 1 341-3435 SATA/SAS integrated controllerfor Connecting Internal Hard Drives, Dell Precision 690

I should have it up and running sometime tomorrow, the thing came in an 84 pound box by itself.

Opening up the insides, I really like how Dell did the video cards, they're on their own riser underneath the 2 PCIX slots and one PCIE x16 slot, so I have them free with no blockage. The soundcard is in the bottom most PCIX slot, with the other PCIX slot directly over it free and then the PCIE slot ontop of that free as well. Hopefully I'll get it fired up as soon as I finish drooling over it...
 
Hey nice setup, post some pics.

I got my Mac Pro and I can't say enough about it. It runs windows and OSX flawlessly. The update they came out with last night enables you to run the HDs at full speed in windows without the slipstreamed XP trick. Anandtech even tested it out with the new quad core chips comming out =)

Oh and people say they have gotten SLI to work on the windows side.
 
I had thought just like you until I learned about the limited mac pro video options I got a dell 690 with a 7950gt also the dell is sli capable sorry for the late post I am new to the forum
 
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