Wireless router range problem

[sgtrobo]

ah ok, thanks.

 

[Justintoxicated]

Thanks for the links guys, but won't connecting to the router using my phone, or even getting this card still degrade the AC signal to "N" speeds?

Won't setting up another access point just create more interference?

I guess my existing router could be the extra access point if required?

Also I thought the ASUS AC66U had dual radios so the second access point would not be needed? I'm still not understanding the contradicting statements I posted above.

 

[Mackintire]

Thanks for the links guys, but won't connecting to the router using my phone, or even getting this card still degrade the AC signal to "N" speeds?

Won't setting up another access point just create more interference?

I guess my existing router could be the extra access point if required?

Also I thought the ASUS AC66U had dual radios so the second access point would not be needed? I'm still not understanding the contradicting statements I posted above.

So let me sort your questions out.

802.11ac is a specification that covers both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz.

2.4Ghz according to the specification can bond 60Mhz of bandwidth, but the chance of actually getting this to work correctly is almost as likely as bring home a unicorn during deer season. So forget about using wireless ac for 2.4Ghz. If you don't have neighbors using 5Ghz you can use 802.11ac with a 60,80,120, or 160Mhz channel width to get faster speeds. You need to have zero interference, and a good signal to accomplish this, but connection rates of 300-900mhz are possible. The usable data-rate for such a connection would be 18MB/s - 65MB/s

With dual radios you can set up the configuration independently on most routers.

My advice to you was to change out the wireless card on your laptop and connect at 2.4Ghz at 144Mbps. That's the lowest hanging fruit as it is the cheapest and most reliable of your choices.

You could reconfigure your router to offer 40Mhz of channel width on 2.4Ghz and maintain both wireless N and AC on 2.4Ghz at the same time. Your best rate would be 300Mbps but it would be harder to connect and maintain than 144Mbps.

You can also either buy a wireless bridge or (buy a wireless N router and reconfigure it to be a wireless bridge and connect to the laptop via the physical ethernet cable. If you don't know what a wireless bridge is, please look it up. www.google.com

The last possibility is to buy a second 802.11 wireless router and convert that to a bridge and connect that to the laptop via a physical ethernet cable. Why anyone would want to do this? I have no clue. Such a setup, (if it actually was stable) would give the garage laptop great bandwidth, but would probably make the wireless terrible for anyone else. 802.11ac is new, cutting edge and has not been debugged..... as they say your experiences may vary, and all sales are final.

 

[Mackintire]

I don't think I explained this clearly enough so I am going to illustrate a little more.

Wireless N requires 2x2 MIMO and has data-rates that range from 1Mbps-144Mbps at 20Mhz and 150-300Mbps using 40Mhz of channel width.

To explain channel width 2.4Ghz has 11 selectable channels to choose from.

But selecting a channel actually means= choosing the center of the channel.

For example:
If you choose channel 6 you are actually using channels from 3-9.
If you look at this in graph form it resembles an arc. There are only 3 non overlapping choices available when you use 20Mhz 2.4Ghz wireless.
Those are channels 1,6 and 11.

If you use a channel width of 40Mhz and choose channel 1 you actually are using channels 1-9!

5Ghz has many more channels and can bond more channels having a higher channel width.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels



Since both wireless N and wireless AC have a 2.4Ghz 40Mhz option, at a data rate of 300Mbps both can co-exist.

But wireless G has a max datarate of 54Mbps and does not require 2x2 or MIMO.

So when a wireless G client connects, the AP has to downgrade to 54Mbps.

G clients can connect via 1x1 or 2x2 (MIMO)
N clients will connect at 54Mbps via 2x2 or 3x3 (if available) ALWAYS MIMO

So wireless N users are still using wireless N....they are just being slowed down to the same 54Mbps that G users have to use.

The actual reason is that the multiplexing using for the wireless signal is the same for N as it is for G at 54Mbps down to 16Mbps. Speeds faster than 54Mbps use a different multiplexing signal. Wireless N CAN use the superior multiplexing (required for the higher speeds) at lower data-rates but not maintain compatibility with G clients at the same time.

Class dismissed.

 

[Justintoxicated]

Thanks for the input I find contradicting data all over the net though.

For example: http://superuser.com/questions/4301...rk-have-poor-performance-when-in-b-g-mixed-mo.

I know what a bridge is, and my existing router flashed with DD-WRT years ago supports that functionality, but I don't see what good that would be, or if it is even compatible with the Asus non DD-WRT router.

From what you explained it sounds like I would be best off using 5ghz for the wireless AC router ONLY and getting the matching wireless network card for the PC in the living room and bedroom to achieve maximum speed.

Then perhaps, plugging the old wireless G router into the N router (or a switch) with an Ethernet cable, but setting it up as an access-point for "G" only devices?

I don't care about my old laptop getting internet any faster than it already does or how fast the network transfer speeds are...it's a laptop so I can move it and plug it in if I need to go faster. What I care about is being able to stream HD video from my server to my HTPC in the living room, and not having to worry about someone turning on a wireless G device while I'm watching TV / Movies etc.

From what you wrote, I would be buying a wireless AC router and network card, then slowing it down to wireless N speeds (due to limiting it to 2.4ghz?) which may also have problems with the neighbors, which will probably not be fast enough for me making it a waste of $300 because the laptop will still be limiting my connection even with the new card.

Or F-it and just leave my network cable tapped to the carpet across the hallway because wireless is WAY over complicated and I will end up with stuttering video anyways if someone does something as simple as connect to my router with a non N/AC device.

 

[wizdum]

Or F-it and just leave my network cable tapped to the carpet across the hallway because wireless is WAY over complicated and I will end up with stuttering video anyways if someone does something as simple as connect to my router with a non N/AC device.

Always go wired if you can, especially if you plan on sending video. If you have to go across carpet/thresholds, you can get wire protectors to go over it, so you don't have to use tape: http://www.amazon.com/Wiremold-CDI15-Corduct-On-Floor-Protector/dp/B0006VAWFG. That was the first link I saw, you probably want to check around for prices.

 

[Mackintire]

A wired connection can stream almost anything that can be streamed.

A wireless N connection,(doesn't matter if it's 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz), 20Mhz channel width, connected at 144Mbps can stream a netflix or Amazon 720p stream without any issues.

You need a 40Mhz+ channel width, wireless N or AC, 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz, connection to even think about streaming 1080p without issues. And even then if that setup is not rock solid, you're going to see it on the TV.


As I mentioned earlier, everyone wants to use 802.11ac to get faster speeds, but it wasn't designed to do that well through multiple walls and with any sort of interference while streaming.

TCP protocol.....YES it will work. Retransmissions will occur but who cares, it 'll work.
UDP protocol....(what streaming uses). Haa Haa good luck.


802.11ad will enable 1080p streaming and with H.265 2K/4K cinema streaming should be possible.


There's even another alternative, when H.265 finally is universally used and support 802.11n (wireless N) will then be able to do 1080p, no problem.

Only the problem is both of those solutions will not be available until 2015 or later.

 

[Justintoxicated]

Always go wired if you can, especially if you plan on sending video. If you have to go across carpet/thresholds, you can get wire protectors to go over it, so you don't have to use tape: http://www.amazon.com/Wiremold-CDI15-Corduct-On-Floor-Protector/dp/B0006VAWFG. That was the first link I saw, you probably want to check around for prices.

Yea I really wanted a wired connection but the only way I can cleanly run one right now is out an attic vent to the back side of the house, then back in through a wall. Just seems lame to have the wires tacked to the outside walls like that, but, it is how they ran the coax in this place.

Or run the line into my office closet , out the bottom of the closet door, and across the hallway.

The bedroom on the other hand would require the length of wire to be run down the hall, or also outside and tacked to the wall, then back into the house through an exterior wall...

I have people tell me all the time that I should be able to stream HD, but I trust Mackintire's advice. Better take that fancy AC router off my birthday wishlist then, and stick with my 7 year old trusty G router.. Or get it anyways just to try it out, I think TV will stream to the bedroom at least, it already has a wireless n card, although it is missing the antennas.

 

[Mackintire]

Did you ever consider trying 500Mbps powerline adapters?

Those often result in about the same usable performance as a good wireless N connection but with much better stability.

60-80Mbps of stable throughput should be able to handle a 1080p stream .

This model has a 100Mbps ethernet jack, but the signal rate runs up to 500Mbps. The 100Mbps interface is not a limitation in 90%+ of installs. If your electrical wiring in your home is in good shape this could be your ticket. http://www.amazon.com/ZyXEL-Powerli...3266023&sr=8-14&keywords=powerline+networking

 

[sgtrobo]

so I got my Asus in now.

My daughter has a wireless-G device.

Does it make sense for me to simply set up my Asus as specified earlier in this thread, using the N-only, then plug my (now old) DIR-825 into it via cat-5, set it up as an access point, enable only G on that access point, and have my daughter connect her little gameboy (or whatever it is) straight to the DIR-825 using the G wireless stream?

will that enable everybody else to function like a "normal N" network, while allowing my daughter to connect her gameboy using wireless-G without messing the rest of us up?

 

[Justintoxicated]

so I got my Asus in now.

My daughter has a wireless-G device.

Does it make sense for me to simply set up my Asus as specified earlier in this thread, using the N-only, then plug my (now old) DIR-825 into it via cat-5, set it up as an access point, enable only G on that access point, and have my daughter connect her little gameboy (or whatever it is) straight to the DIR-825 using the G wireless stream?

will that enable everybody else to function like a "normal N" network, while allowing my daughter to connect her gameboy using wireless-G without messing the rest of us up?

I might still try this. however they do say to disable any near by G devices. I have cat5e run to a POE switch in my garage, and that POE switch has 4 non POE ports that are not in use. I was going to plug my old router in out there as an access point, and keep it away from the N router.

I think you could connect to one of the radios on the asus though, without bringing down the speed of devices connected to the other radio. In theory this should be ok.

I'm loving the AC card and router right now. The AC PC card looks pretty bad ass and the extra antenna extension is really nice since my HTPC is in a TV Wood Stand Cabinet. no problems streaming yet, but I need to test some larger file sizes still. My N300 card in thr bedroom is unable to stream the larger files like the new Asus AC car, but it does not have a great signal either.

I might grab those powerline adapters anyways though, and try them out in the bedroom to keep the air waves free for streaming to the HTPC in the living room.

 

[sgtrobo]

Since both wireless N and wireless AC have a 2.4Ghz 40Mhz option, at a data rate of 300Mbps both can co-exist.

But wireless G has a max datarate of 54Mbps and does not require 2x2 or MIMO.

So when a wireless G client connects, the AP has to downgrade to 54Mbps.

G clients can connect via 1x1 or 2x2 (MIMO)
N clients will connect at 54Mbps via 2x2 or 3x3 (if available) ALWAYS MIMO

So wireless N users are still using wireless N....they are just being slowed down to the same 54Mbps that G users have to use.

The actual reason is that the multiplexing using for the wireless signal is the same for N as it is for G at 54Mbps down to 16Mbps. Speeds faster than 54Mbps use a different multiplexing signal. Wireless N CAN use the superior multiplexing (required for the higher speeds) at lower data-rates but not maintain compatibility with G clients at the same time.

Class dismissed.

ok, so following this logic, then using a separate G-enabled access point cat-5'ed into my Asus (running N only) should allow my daughter's gameboy to connect to the G-enabled access point only, yes?

In other words

Asus RT-N66U = N only, connected to cable modem
DIR825 = G only, connected via ethernet to Asus

all devices that can use N will connect to the Asus, at full N speeds
My daughter's gameboy will connect to the DIR825, at G speed, without affecting the rest of the clients connecting to the Asus

yes?

 

[Mackintire]

ok, so following this logic, then using a separate G-enabled access point cat-5'ed into my Asus (running N only) should allow my daughter's gameboy to connect to the G-enabled access point only, yes?

In other words

Asus RT-N66U = N only, connected to cable modem
DIR825 = G only, connected via ethernet to Asus

all devices that can use N will connect to the Asus, at full N speeds
My daughter's gameboy will connect to the DIR825, at G speed, without affecting the rest of the clients connecting to the Asus

yes?

Yes.

 

[sgtrobo]

thanks a ton, it worked like a charm!