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Wired Home Networking Question

X

Xonim

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
1,035
My wife and I purchased a three-level split that does not have a wired network installed. All rooms/levels are finished. Currently, we have the modem/router in the ML living room with an HTPC/Xbox. Computers are in the computer room via wireless. The future home theater will be having another HTPC, probably dedicated bluray, etc. I would like to get gigabit ethernet setup to wire the three rooms, and eventually have a home server of some sort either in the computer room or in the utility room.

I plan on doing 4 drops to each room if possible. I can get the ethernet over the hallway, but I'm not yet entirely certain if I have access to put a real drop in the living room (30-40 feet) from the crawlspace, or if I just am going to be coming up through a hole in the floor and putting a switch up there. The computer room drop will be no problem (~10 feet), and the theater room should be relatively easy also (30 feet).

I found this article on Anandtech that lays out this:

[Device][Purchased stranded patch cable][110 Keystone][wall brackets][solid network cable][patch panel][Patch cable][Network switch]

The questions I have:

Are solid cables and patch panels really necessary for a home network? I estimate the longest drop to be ~40 feet , if even that, a total of 12 drops max. Could probably be okay with 8.

Cat5e or Cat6? I'm not doing anything fancy, just want a reliable wired network to eventually stream to all three rooms from a central location.

Is it okay to just lay ethernet over regular yellow fiberglass insulation? I don't have a lot of access to the area I need to run it over the hallway....

Thanks in advance, I'm sure I'll have more questions :D
 
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patch panels arent required, but while you are running I would run solid cable Cat6, just to future proof and leave you the best speeds you could get

If you dont do a patch panel its no big issue, youll just have wires coming from the wall right into the switch. If youre good with that then youre fine

You can get a faster speed on CAT5 just using a gigabit switch but the price diff isnt that much larger.

yes you can lay the cable over insulation, no problem there.
 
Patch panels aren't required, but really, do it right and put in a patch panel.

Cat. 5e is fine. Cat. 6/6a doesn't cost too much more, but can be more difficult to properly terminate.
 
Patch Panels protect your investment in inaccesible cabling. In-wall/Infrastructure cabling is solid wire and prone to breakage when flexed repeatedly. Patch cables use stranded wire which is more flexible and less prone to breakage from flexing. Patch Panels effectively immobilize the infrastructure cable and allow easy changes to the physical configuration. You can get 12-port patch panels for under $50; not much reason not to use them.
 
RocketTech said:
Patch Panels protect your investment in inaccesible cabling. In-wall/Infrastructure cabling is solid wire and prone to breakage when flexed repeatedly. Patch cables use stranded wire which is more flexible and less prone to breakage from flexing. Patch Panels effectively immobilize the infrastructure cable and allow easy changes to the physical configuration. You can get 12-port patch panels for under $50; not much reason not to use them.
Click to expand...

12 ports can be had under $20.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=patch+panel&x=0&y=0
 
Might want to check with local building codes as well. I know it's a small project, but you don't want to get bitten in the future.
 
Think I've got everything figured out except a switch. Seems like the recommended/highly reliable switches are $200+ for a 16 port, so I think for now I may just cheap out and get the 8port monoprice since that's the most we'd be using in the next 2-3 years.

Going to go with a 24 port patch panel in case we end up doing a remodel and want to add more runs later. Guess I'm going with the 2-gang wall plates since apparently the cat5 keystones don't fit side by side on the 1-gang plates. Any other suggestions?

Cat5 Enhanced Patch Panel 110Type 24 port x1
1000ft 24AWG Cat5e UTP Solid CMR Cable x1
7x19x12 Wall Mount Bracket x1
110 Punch Down Tool x1
Cat5e Punch Down Keystone Jack x14 (2 extras)
2-Gang Wall Plate for Keystone, 4 Hole x3
2-Gang Low Voltage Mounting Bracket x3
1FT 24AWG Cat5e Patch Cable - Yellow x12

Thanks for the input!
 
I have seen 1-gang keystone wall plates with up to 6 ports in a 2x3 config.
 
Xonim said:
...I think for now I may just cheap out and get the 8port monoprice since that's the most we'd be using in the next 2-3 years.
Click to expand...


Ugh, no. Cheap switches may link at 1Gb/s, but often will not actually support near that throughput between ports. At the very least get something decent like the Netgear GS108.
 
Look for a used Dell PowerConnect 5224 or 5324 on ebay. If you are patient, you should be able to find one for around $100. You don't want it in an occupied room, but they are bulletproof.
 
I recommend CAT 6 as it doesn't cost much more for 1,000' (maybe $40). Also you can fit as many as 6 keystone jacks in one plate. In fact most plates have two ports and if you want to use only one you need to put a dummy in the other. Don't skimp on drops while you have the walls open. It can be a real PITA to run the wires later. I'd suggest putting two drops at each location. This for the future. Maybe you're going to have a stereo receiver in the corner in a couple years that could benefit from a network drop or something like that or you decide you want better WiFi coverage and need a drop for an access point. As for a patch panel, the above considerations are certainly valid but in a home environment there isn't going to be as much tinkering with cables. I currently don't have a patch panel installed but do plan on getting to that once I put up sheetrock in the room with the switch. I'm in no rush. I ran the wires, terminated them and plugged them in to the switch almost a year ago and haven't touched anything there since. And I probably won't touch it all until I take the time to install the panel. The Dell 2724 is a great 24 port switch that you can get on ebay all day long for about $100. Mine is probably the most robust piece of computer equipment I own. Sure beats the hell out of the 8/16 port ProCurve switches I used to use. I suppose you could get a POS bargain basement switch if you hate yourself and are looking to make you life worse. Like I said, even the HP switches I used to use, which cost something like $50 for an 8 port job, were always pissing me off. At that rate you're probably just better of sticking with WiFi for everything.
 
S-F said:
I recommend CAT 6 as it doesn't cost much more for 1,000' (maybe $40). Also you can fit as many as 6 keystone jacks in one plate. In fact most plates have two ports and if you want to use only one you need to put a dummy in the other. Don't skimp on drops while you have the walls open. It can be a real PITA to run the wires later. I'd suggest putting two drops at each location. This for the future. Maybe you're going to have a stereo receiver in the corner in a couple years that could benefit from a network drop or something like that or you decide you want better WiFi coverage and need a drop for an access point. As for a patch panel, the above considerations are certainly valid but in a home environment there isn't going to be as much tinkering with cables. I currently don't have a patch panel installed but do plan on getting to that once I put up sheetrock in the room with the switch. I'm in no rush. I ran the wires, terminated them and plugged them in to the switch almost a year ago and haven't touched anything there since. And I probably won't touch it all until I take the time to install the panel. The Dell 2724 is a great 24 port switch that you can get on ebay all day long for about $100. Mine is probably the most robust piece of computer equipment I own. Sure beats the hell out of the 8/16 port ProCurve switches I used to use. I suppose you could get a POS bargain basement switch if you hate yourself and are looking to make you life worse. Like I said, even the HP switches I used to use, which cost something like $50 for an 8 port job, were always pissing me off. At that rate you're probably just better of sticking with WiFi for everything.
Click to expand...

You must have had faulty procurves then. HP switches are rock solid.
 
S-F said:
Don't skimp on drops while you have the walls open.
Click to expand...

I don't have the walls open. :(

Just wanting to do what I can from the crawl space. Gonna go ahead and get some of this stuff ordered. Thanks again all!
 
Mackintire said:
Egh...NO!


If you are going to buy Netgear, get the Netgear GS108E


$10 difference = + 1,700,000 hours MTBF


It must have the "E" on the end.
Click to expand...


Meh, BFD. Both have the same warranty. I've deployed literally hundreds of the GS105 and GS108 and they've been solid. The only real reason to get the 'E' is if you want/need the additional features.
 
/usr/home said:
You must have had faulty procurves then. HP switches are rock solid.
Click to expand...

From what I understand there is a big difference between the regular ProCurve switches and the bargain basement ones you can get, which I had been using.
 
Instead of a patch panel when I ran cable for my parents I terminated each drop in a central room with another drop. So one room has three drops and the other rooms one each. Small patch from each drop in the central room to the router/switch and bam home networked.
 
Well since this thread is already going and similiar to what I am doing I'll go ahead and post my question here. We have UVerse in a house that has four rooms. The UVerse gateway has a 4 port router built in as well as wireless. After doing some testing we will get better speeds using wired than wireless especially when streaming video. Can I get four routers/switches, put one in each room, and have each connect to the UVerse gateway using the four ports on the back? I would put one in each room because each room has tv's, computers, receivers, disc players, etc. that we would like to connect as well. They would be four ports as that is all we really need.

My question is would that setup work and would switches be good enough for each room or should they be routers as well?

Already ordered all the cables I will need from monoprice.com Thank god that website is around. Got $75 - $100 worth of cables at retail for like $40 shipped. They even list HardOCP and Hordforum to choose from when they ask you where did you hear about us.
 
BoogerBomb said:
Well since this thread is already going and similiar to what I am doing I'll go ahead and post my question here. We have UVerse in a house that has four rooms. The UVerse gateway has a 4 port router built in as well as wireless. After doing some testing we will get better speeds using wired than wireless especially when streaming video. Can I get four routers/switches, put one in each room, and have each connect to the UVerse gateway using the four ports on the back? I would put one in each room because each room has tv's, computers, receivers, disc players, etc. that we would like to connect as well. They would be four ports as that is all we really need.

My question is would that setup work and would switches be good enough for each room or should they be routers as well?

Already ordered all the cables I will need from monoprice.com Thank god that website is around. Got $75 - $100 worth of cables at retail for like $40 shipped. They even list HardOCP and Hordforum to choose from when they ask you where did you hear about us.
Click to expand...
Switches are appropriate for that setup.
 
BoogerBomb said:
Would devices behind the switches be able to access the internet or is that where a router comes into play?
Click to expand...
You can set it up however you need. But my guess is that you'd want everything to have internet access, so just plugging in the switches should be sufficient.
 
I'd recommend a single switch to handle all your connections rather than a switch per room. Less equipment = easier to troubleshoot and you would have higher speeds, depending on configuration. You certainly could use multiple switches as you suggest, just not optimal.
 
RocketTech said:
I'd recommend a single switch to handle all your connections rather than a switch per room. Less equipment = easier to troubleshoot and you would have higher speeds, depending on configuration. You certainly could use multiple switches as you suggest, just not optimal.
Click to expand...

Somebody always has to show up making sense and thinking about aspects I hadn't thought of. I just don't want to have to run that many wires.
 
What i would do is determine how many "drops" you want going to each room. If most rooms only need 1 line, id suggest using 1 central router, and using a smaller switch to branch out in the rooms you definately need more then 1 line run.

Now if you need multiple lines run to each room....your solution may be best. with a switch in each room. Though not completely ideal if computers on different switches are constantly communicating with each other.
 
I decided to go the Cat5e route since it's a little cheaper and I'm not doing anything fancy with it - just a wired home network. Ordered everything today except the switch...I still can't decide what to go with for that.
 
BoogerBomb said:
Somebody always has to show up making sense and thinking about aspects I hadn't thought of. I just don't want to have to run that many wires.
Click to expand...

well if you are already running 1 line to each room, then its nothing harder to run more than 1 to each room.

Like it was stated, multiple cheap switches all over is a pain in the pita to trouble shoot, and on the negative side, it makes it messier, because you have to waste a power plug per switch..

Buy a nice little 16-24 gig port switch, put all the wires & equipment ( modem router switch ) all in one location with a little ups to protect the equipment and poof years will pass and YOU WILL be happy you did it right.


Doing it the lazy lets call it, and buying a few cheap switches here and there, will cost you yuor own time to trouble shoot things and other headaches.
 
When I wired my house up with Cat6, I put one drop per bedroom. The bedrooms are on the 2nd floor and I did not have a chase to fish a wire down to the 1st floor where my "core switch" lives. I had to drill outside my attic wall and run electrical PVC pipe from the top to the bottom and ran a CAT6 cable inside. This cable trunks my core switch to a switch in my bedroom where all other rooms tie into. I did use Trendnet TEGs80g unmanaged 8 port switches for my project and they work just fine for me. My network has been going strong for a year now with no issues at all. I chose cheap switches because I didn't feel managed devices were needed for my setup. I work with Cisco gear all day, and actually have two 2960g swiches at home as part of my lab, but didnt use them as I felt it was overkill. I did not terminate my runs to a patch panel on the 2nd floor. They simply go from keystone jack, into my bedroom and out a wall plate into my switch. Simple enough. Its clean looking as well.

Now with all that being said, if I was building a house, or walls were all open, and if I could get all the runs to a central location, I most certainly would have installed a patch panel, single switch, and have all my gear in one location. Unfortunately this is not the case for me and for many others. My suggestion, do what works best for you. Cheap is not always the best, but overkill is not always necessary.
 
Decided to go with a HP Procurve 1410-16G. It was $20-30 more expensive than the Netgear I was considering (after MIR), but the lifetime warranty with next day air seems worth that to me. Hopefully I can get all the cables run/terminated once it all shows up...
 
Good luck with the remaining build. Pics are always appreciated.
 
Finally got around to installing all this stuff. Took way longer than I'd hoped, but also turned out much better than I'd hoped. Ran 4 drops to the computer room, living room, and future home theater room, terminated all of them to a patch panel installed in our utility room. Panel connected to HP Procurve 1410, to Asus RT-N56U to Motorola SB6121. Only done a 3 GB transfer so far, but dipped to 90 MB/s at the start and stayed above 100 the rest of the way. I'll take it!

DSC_0007Medium.jpg
 
Xonim said:
Finally got around to installing all this stuff. Took way longer than I'd hoped, but also turned out much better than I'd hoped. Ran 4 drops to the computer room, living room, and future home theater room, terminated all of them to a patch panel installed in our utility room. Panel connected to HP Procurve 1410, to Asus RT-N56U to Motorola SB6121. Only done a 3 GB transfer so far, but dipped to 90 MB/s at the start and stayed above 100 the rest of the way. I'll take it!
Click to expand...
Great work, tie down those runs into the patch and your all set :) good work!
 
Nice setup. Ive been thinking about doing the same for a house I am buying. Though I plan on only making 4 drops in the ML, maybe 2 in each bed room. What did you use to fish the wires through? any tips or suggestions?
 
stunning said:
Nice setup. Ive been thinking about doing the same for a house I am buying. Though I plan on only making 4 drops in the ML, maybe 2 in each bed room. What did you use to fish the wires through? any tips or suggestions?
Click to expand...

What kind of tips ?
 
stunning said:
Nice setup. Ive been thinking about doing the same for a house I am buying. Though I plan on only making 4 drops in the ML, maybe 2 in each bed room. What did you use to fish the wires through? any tips or suggestions?
Click to expand...

I recently pulled wire through my entire 2 floor with finished basement house. Did 2 net, 1 coax drop per room with 6 drops in 2 locations in the office.

I recommend spending a lot of time getting to know your house, figure the best walls to use and figure out what could be in those walls. Such as duct work, plumbing, etc. Try to avoid using exterior walls because pulling wire through insulation is more difficult and sometimes the builder may install cross beams to prevent insulation settling.

As for tools, a good drill with good auger style bits. I used both fish tape and push rods. However if you only get one get the push rods. They are much easier to use and they go in a straight line where as fish tape tends to curl inside the wall. I needed fish tape for the long pull from the attic to the basement that had a dog leg turn in it.

Most important plan plan and plan some more.
 
m1abram said:
As for tools, a good drill with good auger style bits. I used both fish tape and push rods. However if you only get one get the push rods. They are much easier to use and they go in a straight line where as fish tape tends to curl inside the wall.
Click to expand...

this 100 times. fish stix rock
 
Snufykat said:
What are you a gay fish?
Sorry, could not resist the south park reference.
Click to expand...

He was reffering to these,

43136.jpg


to do this,

IMG_9656.jpg


I have 2 sets of them :) one small set, and one long set, i hate fish tapes. I can use glow rods VERY VERY WELL!
 
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