Windows Vista Doesn’t Suck

[HardOCP News]

If you want to hear how nice Windows Vista is, all you have to do is track your local Mac user, he’ll tell you.

I’ve been using Vista for the past few weeks, getting ready to write a few articles and columns about it. And the biggest insult, the worst kick in the most sensitive area with the heaviest boot of them all, is the fact that when I finish a few hours of Windows Vista work and then turn back to my Macs...Vista has a few features that I wish I could use on my Macs.

 

[Cannydog]

It doesn't make a difference to me. I still can't load Vista onto my current systems without forcing my SATA II HDDs to emulate IDE drives in BIOS. (I have 3 hard drives in each system, for a total of about 800GB internal storage.) Why would I contemplate doing this? So I can have Widgets, or Windows that "bounce"??

 

[CommanderFrank]

This too shall pass.....Vista will be adjusted to make everything play together nicely, probably before the official release last week of next month. I've been using Vista since Beta 1 was released last year and it has gone through many positive changes. It's a widely held view that any new Microsoft OS is still a Beta until the release of the first Service Pack. I see no difference on this one.

I'm really not sure how to take the Mac comment....I always thought Macs were a little light on their feet, visually speaking

 

[HecHacker1]

It doesn't make a difference to me. I still can't load Vista onto my current systems without forcing my SATA II HDDs to emulate IDE drives in BIOS. (I have 3 hard drives in each system, for a total of about 800GB internal storage.) Why would I contemplate doing this? So I can have Widgets, or Windows that "bounce"??

and what is wrong with that? A real SATA/RAID controller should always present itself as a normal generic IDE device that doesn't require drivers. Usually if you need drivers that implies your CPU is doing the processing instead of the hardware.

Expensive SATA/RAID cards don't need drivers. They are true plug n play. Some motherboards also have driverless raid. At least your motherboard supports an approximate method for doing this.

 

[HecHacker1]

no edit? anyways, I should also mention that my NF3 board's RAID/SATA controllers are not supported by Vista either. Which means i'll be forced to upgrade unless I fall back on IDE.

Who do I blame? Nvidia. They should and could easily add in support for my board in one of their SATA drivers, and yet they refuse too. The drivers for SATA and RAID have been the same package since Nforce1 (unified driver architecture anyone?). This is also a problem in Linux where I can't use true RAID because of the lack of drivers to translate their proprietary SATA interface into something generic that any computer could understand.

That is why I support driverless RAID/SATA systems in the future. A "generic IDE" driver that virtually ALL OS support should be the standard. The hardware should do the processing.

 

[Nasty_Savage]

No, it doesn't suck, but it still needs a bit of work. I dig it, but even on my 9300 its kinds piggy. Some things drive me bonkers, but I guess I have to get used to it more...

 

[ianken]

I found that XP SATA drivers run just fine and the only time you need them is when you want to use them in RAID mode. Forcing "IDE MODE" in bios doesn't hurt a thing, it just mean you loose their RAID support.

In my case it was a good thing: The Intel RAID would only allow me to set two drives as RAID 0. I installed three. Vista software raid0 works perfectly and I don't need any drivers, out of the box I had my 1.2TB volume up and running for recording and what-not and perf was excellent on this quad tuner Vista MCE box, dual ATSC with 360 extender. NO perf issues and this is a franken box built of spare parts ahd waht not, not even dual core or anything like that. Very run of the mill load-out and it is doing great.

Waht we need is some video driver stability. NVIDA drivers currently lack all the pure video frosting (no IVTC, etc) and they glitch. ATI has thier AVIV stuff all working but they hang every once in a while and have an odd ghosting/afterimage bug when playing SD video.

Anyway, all these issues will be addressed going forward by the various IHVs.

 

[OregonLAN]

and what is wrong with that? A real SATA/RAID controller should always present itself as a normal generic IDE device that doesn't require drivers. Usually if you need drivers that implies your CPU is doing the processing instead of the hardware.

Expensive SATA/RAID cards don't need drivers. They are true plug n play. Some motherboards also have driverless raid. At least your motherboard supports an approximate method for doing this.

WTF are you talking about? Unless the SATA controller is part of the PCI bus, it will always require drivers to function properly in Windows XP/Vista. Even the best SATA controllers (LSI, Areca, 3Ware) need drivers to function properly in a Windows environment.

 

[PAPutzback]

1. The UAC is a nag. They should of named it Wife Beta.
2. The lack of WHQL drivers sucks.
3. The huge amount of services that are running by default is a huge perf hit. Balck Viepr where are you.
4. IE7 is a huge hog. But atleast you right click the IE Icon to run it without addons. Still not up to firefox speed though.
5. I don't know who to blame when Ventrillo accepting a key press to activate when BF2 starts.
6. You have to go into the shortcut properties for all your games and run them as administrator if they use punkbuster. Otherwise you get kicked from servers with the error "You don't have required O/S privileges"
7. I still show a device failing in device manager with random letters and no idea what it is.
8. Getting to folder options from within the folder is random. Sometimes the options are on the menu bar sometimes not.
9. The new program data folder which is hidden by default makes uninstalling apps a headache. Install program, doesn't work uninstall, new version comes out reinstall. Ooops I forgot to manually delete the Programs settings or anyother data it needs from the hidden "Program Data folder" Uninstall program, delete programs data folder from "Program Data". Reninstall program. Program still does not work. Hmmm Where else is Vista hiding files from the first install.

I am sure it will get better but it just isn't ready for release to retail. I expect all of us to be heading over to our firends and relatives when they go to Vista and help them frequently. MS must have a deal with Geek Squad to create jobs.

 

[MrGuvernment]

black viper where are you?..lol

you just killed any credibility you had....

black vipers tweaks gave literally a zero performance gain in real life usage.


Vista is efficient, it uses the resrouces your computer has, why do people complain if the O/S uses the resources to make your experience faster and better, when another applications / game needs more resources, vista gives it to it.

 

[MrGuvernment]

1. The UAC is a nag. They should of named it Wife Beta.
2. The lack of WHQL drivers sucks.

No Windows fualt, VISTA IS NOT RETAIL YET, once it is drivers will become certified.

3. The huge amount of services that are running by default is a huge perf hit. Balck Viepr where are you.

Please, i would love to see the performance numbers you have ran and tested showing how much faster vista would be by disabling these services.

4. IE7 is a huge hog. But atleast you right click the IE Icon to run it without addons. Still not up to firefox speed though.

And firefox using some 100mb+ of ram isnt?

5. I don't know who to blame when Ventrillo accepting a key press to activate when BF2 starts.

Not vista's fualt - again if it was Vista is not retail so it is still a "beta" more or less.

6. You have to go into the shortcut properties for all your games and run them as administrator if they use punkbuster. Otherwise you get kicked from servers with the error "You don't have required O/S privileges"

Again not vista's fault the game is not programed to work on Vista yet...

7. I still show a device failing in device manager with random letters and no idea what it is.

Again not vista's fault hardware makers dont have complete proper drivers yet....

8. Getting to folder options from within the folder is random. Sometimes the options are on the menu bar sometimes not.

Not had this issue, but am sure if it is a bug should be fixed by the time it goes retail.

9. The new program data folder which is hidden by default makes uninstalling apps a headache. Install program, doesn't work uninstall, new version comes out reinstall. Ooops I forgot to manually delete the Programs settings or anyother data it needs from the hidden "Program Data folder" Uninstall program, delete programs data folder from "Program Data". Reninstall program. Program still does not work. Hmmm Where else is Vista hiding files from the first install.

Again, not vista's fault program uninstallers are made properly, XP as this issue, 98 has this issue because it is the 3rd party programmers fault for not uninstalling the files.

I am sure it will get better but it just isn't ready for release to retail. I expect all of us to be heading over to our firends and relatives when they go to Vista and help them frequently. MS must have a deal with Geek Squad to create jobs.

So, think you can actually find problems that are MS fault? Retail release is in 1-2 months if all goes well, that is plenty of time to work out the 1 bug you found that could actually be MS fault.

 

[CyberDeus-RagDoll]

1. The UAC is a nag. They should of named it Wife Beta.

It can be turned off

2. The lack of WHQL drivers sucks.

It's not officially released, so, give companies more time

3. The huge amount of services that are running by default is a huge perf hit. Balck Viepr where are you.

All of them can be disabled, too. It has these services on to protect you.

4. IE7 is a huge hog. But atleast you right click the IE Icon to run it without addons. Still not up to firefox speed though.

FF2 on my XP machine takes more ram to run than IE7, I have not installed FF2 on my Vista machine

5. I don't know who to blame when Ventrillo accepting a key press to activate when BF2 starts.

No idea what your talking about, so I can't say.

6. You have to go into the shortcut properties for all your games and run them as administrator if they use punkbuster. Otherwise you get kicked from servers with the error "You don't have required O/S privileges"

Sounds like a problem with the third party software to me. Sounds like the software doesn't have a function, internally, to authenticate you as an admin.like a linux equivalent of SU

7. I still show a device failing in device manager with random letters and no idea what it is.

Sounds like you have random, unknown hardware. Why not check the list of what you have in XP on the same machine, and then find whats missing in Vista?

8. Getting to folder options from within the folder is random. Sometimes the options are on the menu bar sometimes not.

Wow, you found a bug for you. I have not witnessed this behavior at all. Are you sure you are not switching views somehow?

9. The new program data folder which is hidden by default makes uninstalling apps a headache. Install program, doesn't work uninstall, new version comes out reinstall. Ooops I forgot to manually delete the Programs settings or anyother data it needs from the hidden "Program Data folder" Uninstall program, delete programs data folder from "Program Data". Reninstall program. Program still does not work. Hmmm Where else is Vista hiding files from the first install.

Operating systems, and not just microsoft ones, have been hiding data for over a decade. Mac's "System" was INFAMOUS for this..

I am sure it will get better but it just isn't ready for release to retail. I expect all of us to be heading over to our firends and relatives when they go to Vista and help them frequently. MS must have a deal with Geek Squad to create jobs.

Are you using RTM? (cause if you admit that, you are admitting to piracy, unless you're an MS employee. You do realize that, ya know, betas, and even RC's aren't "complete", right?

The only issue(s) I have found with my vista (ultimate, 64 bit, rc2) install is that I can't seem to optimize my intel HDA adapter as .. extensively .. as I can under XP pro. That would be because I can't get the studio app to run correctly. If I run it, and tweak ANYTHING, it totally distorts output, over the optical anyhow.

The other issue, is that, even though I have the onboard video DISABLED on my motherboard, (dg965wh) vista is still showing 1.99GB ram, instead of 2.0Gb ram, because that card is still "robbing" 8mb of video memory. That, I think, however, is a BIOS/hardware issue, and not, in fact, an OS problem.

Can I run obscure hardware like my x-mystique? No. Cause auzentech / cmedia haven't written a vista driver for it yet,so I'm stuck with either the onboard sigmatel 7.1 channel over optical (and untweakable) or the onboard sigmatel 7.1 over "electrical" connection.

I hated BF2, so I don't know of the problems with it. I despise games that basically TOTALLY IGNORE single player mode.

 

[Met-AL]

3. The huge amount of services that are running by default is a huge perf hit. Balck Viepr where are you.

You just lost any credibility that you had with the Black Viper comment.



I think that "they" should keep track of all the 9x'ers that complain about Vista in a book. And when they goto get their Vista, they should be denied and told to stay with XP.

What is a 9x'er? A 9x'er is a person that figured it was trendy, cool, or a good way to gain attention to take the stance that Windows 98 was all that was needed in the consumer market and that XP was to bloated, had too many services, had useless features that would never be used, took too much ram, took too much of a CPU to run, etc. They professed that WIndows XP was going to flop.


Black Viper? Come on man, his crap has been proven wrong time and time again. Black Viper...ROFLMAO.

 

[Caffeinated]

I was an early adopter for both 2000 and XP because their previous iterations were not meeting my needs. (2000 had better gaming/multimedia support than NT, XP had better than 2000, etc.). 98 never met my needs, so I won't go there in this post.

Personally, for this round I didn't have any pressing need to beta test Vista. I'm sure that when Vista actually gets released, we will start to see better driver support. It's too early to be complaining about driver support when the OS hasn't even been released yet. Unless you work for a company that will be supporting/developing for Vista upon it's release, or have some other legitimate reason to be using it other than "I found the torrent for it", it's a bit early to gripe about what is and isn't supported yet.

With that said, I will admit that I have not seen Vista enjoy the same early widespread driver/app support that XP had. 2000 drivers and apps were a lot easier to adapt and/or hack for XP support than what I am seeing with Vista. I am actually a bit concerned by the state of Vista support that I am seeing in the software and hardware arena at this time. Hopefully at the beginning of January this will change, otherwise the month of February is going to suck for those of us that will be expected to support it.

Unless software developers and hardware manufacturers get off of their collective butts in a hurry, I predict that February is not going to be a good month to be in IT.

 

[defuseme2k]

This is also a problem in Linux where I can't use true RAID because of the lack of drivers to translate their proprietary SATA interface into something generic that any computer could understand.

What about using dmraid in linux (this probably doesn't go here -- but trying to help him). The nvraid I quickly got working in ubuntu and in gentoo using dmraid...

 

[CommanderFrank]

You're right, this doesn't go here. Please remember this is a mini-extension of the front page and is not meant to stray off the topic at hand. If you wish to debate the merits of Linux vs.Vista. feel free to take it to the Operating Systems Forum.

 

[ErrorS]

Vista has its fair share of problems but I'm enjoying it..

1. The driver thing really is bad. I don't care if it's beta or not, this has to be the least supportive OS I have ever used. It's not entireley Microsoft's fault, I'm just unlucky and a few manufactures of my hardware dropped the ball. I had Dell outright tell me "We didn't start development of printer drivers until Vista code was finalized". In the meantime other people are printing like a son of a bitch on their MSDN Vista copies.

nVidia? Horrible driver support and I don't see how they're going to have anything decent by final. ATi's drivers are pretty good.. If the 8500 had drivers as crappy as what I'm using on my 7900GT at release it wouldn't have been the minor success it was. In the meantime, my Audigy2 and X1800 are fully functional.. Eh?

2. Performance is BAD. Forget about using the sidebar (could be drivers?) Damn thing was using 30% CPU (DUAL CORE, that's the majority of a single core). I was forced to turn it off.. It works decently but noone can afford the cycles it uses, I'm praying it's crappy drivers on nVidia's end making it such a hog. Things freeze up every once in a while.. I can't have voice control load with my computer unless I want a good 2 minutes of a complete freeze every time I start. MC and WMP often stalls out for no real reason, as does IE7 on the rare occasion.

3. Again, it is a hog. Running Vista on my 7900GT with a DualCore A64 (at 2.5ghz) feels like running XP on a Radeon1 and a 1GHZ T-Bird. It's not bad, it doesn't kill productiveness.. but it really makes the dualcore CPU and 2GB of RAM you bought worth the cost.

4. Sick of seeing programs tell me "Must be running Windows XP". What idiot thought it was a good idea to have these programs do an OS check in the first place? At least try to run before giving us that rediculous error message. "It doesn't run.. hmm, maybe because they're not running XP?"
Compatibility mode only works on some of them, especially when both a self extractable archive AND the installer (that will only automatically run) both do a check. I have a handfull of programs that simply wont run regardless of how hard I try.

5. Networking in Vista is flat out stupid. I struggled for hours to get my Notebook to see my Vista network.. and then finally when it showed up, I tried to get some music off of my Vista computer and I got a prompt for login information. I gave up, none of my accounts from my Vista box worked. I ended up installing Vista on my Notebook, which in the end was much simpler than trying to get networking to work between a Vista and XP box. Even Vista to Vista networking was faar less intuitive than it was on XP.
Most networking options are automatated with absolutely no option to do anything manually.
You're forced to change stupid protection methods, that are hidden in some obscure text link labled in such a way that you had no clue the options would be there.

"Is it a private network?" Uh, private as in.. my diary?(i dont really have a diary...) Somethign I don't want anyone else to have access too? No, it's a private network.. uh, meaning anyone can connect to it and have full access to your files. Ok, FINE, it makes sense when you think about it..

6. Such a minor complaint but the new control panel has taught me that the letter "P" is used far too much in the English language to start words. Ok, really, one frustrating thing about Vista is that familier items we've grown use to since Windows95 has been.. renamed.. "Uninstall/Change programs?" Not anymore, it's now "Programs and Features", display settings? "Personalization". Some items that were wrapped up in a single option panel are now split into 3-4 catagories in the control panel. Small, small annoyance that I'm sure wont bother me a year from now.. but it wasn't necessary.

7. The new boot manager is flat out stupid.. I've never seen something so overly complicated in my life.. well, other than the Linux operating system. MS really tried to keep.. everyone.. from trying to edit boot entries. Ok, in theory the new boot manager works much much better, it's just rediculously difficult to change. A simple frontend would have taken an hour of work, WHY why why? ugh

8. I knew it wasn't going to happen but I wanted 'windows registry' to die. Horrible, horrible mess that shouldn't exist. I can think of a dozen ways to get rid of it.

So far those are the only complaints (that I can think of right now) I have against the OS. Overall, I think Vista is the greatest thing to come to computers since Windows95. I think the parallels are amazing.. Win95 was known for being a system hog, people had trouble adopting the new OS, driver development was slow and not finished in time for release.. new interface, new networking options, whatever.

I've seen some reviews say that Vista doesn't offer any "Must haves".. it's just more convienant. Well, to me, there's not a whole lot of difference. Making my computer easier to use, quicker to use and with more options sure as hell makes it a "must have" to me. Explorer is MUCH more friendly than you would expect. The quick searches, a feature I wasn't too excited about, has made my life so much easier.
I compeltely dumped Winamp in favor of WMP and MCE (in fact, got rid of all my MP3s and redid them all). The system performance analyzer is going to change the computer industry, no more guesswork, no more newbs wondering why they can't play WOW in native res with a GMA950 on their 22'' LCDs.
MS effectively got rid of many of the halfassed programs we were forced to use. Wireless on Vista works as well as any third party program. Mobility options/tools are as nice as anything you would get from Toshiba or Lenova.. while not a Vista-Only program, I can't wait to see "OneCare" completely destroy all the crap that comes out of the rearends of developers like McCafee and Norton (RIP)

and last but not least, the SECURITY. While it isn't something I needed personally, being someone who maintains a dozen different 'family computers' UAC and the liks are a welcome addition. I'm not just happy with the new security, I'm relieved and I'm excited about the OS. It's going to change my life... well, parts of my life, I shouldn't overdo it.

 

[daftie]

It's a widely held view that any new Microsoft OS is still a Beta until the release of the first Service Pack. I see no difference on this one.

QFT, someone should print this on a shirt

And [H] should sell geek shirts.

 

[daftie]

You're forced to change stupid protection methods, that are hidden in some obscure text link labled in such a way that you had no clue the options would be there.

Last I checked, Vista was being coded by MS...

 

[whrswoldo]

I am running a beta version of Vista on one of my machines (RC1?). It is a single core 3200+ with 1gb of ram and a 6800gt, and although it is a bit slower than when I was running XP the difference is not terribly noticeable to me. I too enjoy some of the new features, although at times I want to smash the computer to pieces it frustrates me so much.
(For instance, attempting to download files shared on this system from another system causes an instant BSOD; this is repeatable and happens with all files. I have yet to find a solution. )

That said, it is a BETA and has not yet been released to the public, and I will be upgrading on my main rig (through my school) as soon as it is.

I liked this quote by the way:

Microsoft’s hearts are so spiteful, so black and cold, that they’ve even robbed the Mac community of their favorite smirk:“Microsoft is the only company that would have its users turn their computers off by pushing a button marked ‘Start’.”

The button in question is now labeled with a glossy Windows logo.

Miserable. Stinking. Rat-bastards!

 

[xtravgnt]

Been running Vista since beta, and loving it. Haven't had any major problems until I added in a Samsung DVD/RW recently. I can't burn a CD or DVD to save my life, not sure why either It locks up with iTunes, locks up with the built in Windows burner as well.

7900GTX
Core 2 Duo X6800 Extreme
2GB of RAM
Intel 965 Board

 

[jarman]

You just lost any credibility that you had with the Black Viper comment.

Credibility? In an internet forum? Get a life.

 

[MrGuvernment]

believe it or not plenty on people on "internet" forums have credibility and can be relied upon for accurate and good info.

So maybe you should be the one getting a life.

 

[Martyr]

how have people found file sharing hard? its now more similiar to the typical setup one might have at work.

 

[/dev/null]

and what is wrong with that? A real SATA/RAID controller should always present itself as a normal generic IDE device that doesn't require drivers. Usually if you need drivers that implies your CPU is doing the processing instead of the hardware.

Expensive SATA/RAID cards don't need drivers. They are true plug n play. Some motherboards also have driverless raid. At least your motherboard supports an approximate method for doing this.

Tell that to my 3ware 9550sx-8lp. Yes it requires drivers.

 

[MrGuvernment]

I am running a beta version of Vista on one of my machines (RC1?). It is a single core 3200+ with 1gb of ram and a 6800gt, and although it is a bit slower than when I was running XP the difference is not terribly noticeable to me. I too enjoy some of the new features, although at times I want to smash the computer to pieces it frustrates me so much.
(For instance, attempting to download files shared on this system from another system causes an instant BSOD; this is repeatable and happens with all files. I have yet to find a solution. )

That said, it is a BETA and has not yet been released to the public, and I will be upgrading on my main rig (through my school) as soon as it is.

I liked this quote by the way:

RC2 fixed ALOT of the issues RC1 had and the system gng BSOD could be a driver issue as well, is too early to tell..

As for the windows logo shut down, and what does linux use? what did most O/S use before OSX and such? the game of who copied who can go on and on and on

Who had AGP first
Who had SATA first
Who had USB first
Who had PCIe first
Who had a GUI first

and so on, it can go bac and forth all day long

I guess the pysicaly power button on my Macbook they copied from someone as it is the circle with a line through the top, but the circle doesnt completly close.

Like most fangirlies who know little about the product they support, they defend a feature the competitor just got, that their product may have had before, weather it be a year or 5 mins and more often then not, their "god send" of a product already copied it from somewhere else as well.

Copying someone's idea's is usually a sign of good things, as in they like it, so copy it, why not say hey , good job MS for doing something right, instead of "copy cat copy cat you suck!!"

Sorry , but it is hard to be inovative in GUI's these days and what icons you use and dont use or include words or not, it has ALL been done before.

Wasnt apple.