Windows: Linux Can't Touch This

[kllrnohj]

If your an idiot, yes. You can do alot of dumb things to windows if you set your mind to it.

The difference is that windows doesn't make you do those dumb things.

If you can show me an example of someone who can't load windows due to wrong resolution, instead of something someone does to themselves, be my guest.

Windows XP *defaults* to an absurdly low resolution, Ubuntu defaults to the highest that your system will run. I fail to see how you think what Ubuntu is doing is wrong?

Not only that, but Mac OSX uses Unix, a Linux derivative.

Theirs no excuse. Linux developers only make Linux for people who think like them: Elitist snobs.

The elitest snob is YOU. YOU are the one that wants someone to make something FOR YOU FOR FREE.

We don't know if it shared code.

Still, it's most obviously based off Unix. From my last knowledge of OSX and Linux, both still use Sudo based command line executions.

Actually, we do know that it didn't share code since both Linux and Minix are open source. They also have radically different kernel designs.

Also, the terminal shell that BSD, OSX, and Linux all use is the same. They all run Bash, ZSH, KSH, etc... Those are all different PROGRAMS. What you are saying would be similar to saying that Linux is based off of Windows because they both run Firefox.

How exactly does being easy to use=Windows?

Read the link, it answers that question *exactly* (or if you are too lazy, easy to use == familiar, windows == familiar, therefore easy to use == windows for many people)

Because Mac OSX is easier to use.

Not really. I hate OS X. I find it to be the most moronic and illogical OS ever. Throwing a CD away != ejecting it, for example.

That excuse is just BS to mask the reality that Linux devs are too stuck up their own OS to think.

So stuck up they made an OS that can rival that of some of the richest and largest companies in the industry in their spare time for free?. So stuck up that they are giving it away for free, including the code and all rights to modify and redistribute the code? So stuck up that they provide user support, for free, in their spare time? Wow, they sure are stuck up

 

[Zellio2009]

BTW, before you come back and make bullshit remarks of your own, point out where I said security is a product.

 

[Smoken Joe]

Lunix on iPhone

Yea he is an expert.


Same was said about Firefox and Apple. It wont happen overnight but the very things that makes a program a sucess can cause its downfall later. I think Microsofts biggest compitition is its self. Say what you want about how great Vista is, it deeply aleinated a lot of people to the point they wont give it a second chance. As others have said, the next OS needs to be better than the old one from the very start. MS needs to get all their ducks in a row before release. If MS doesnt meed this coustomer expectation people will look elseware. Apple will be the big winner there are too many distros of Lunix it is confusing to most people.

 

[kac77]

If your an idiot, yes. You can do alot of dumb things to windows if you set your mind to it.

The difference is that windows doesn't make you do those dumb things.

If you can show me an example of someone who can't load windows due to wrong resolution, instead of something someone does to themselves, be my guest.

Sure how's this:
http://www.computing.net/answers/hardware/error-codesos-wont-load/49977.html

Or

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=101625

Or

http://forums.techguy.org/windows-95-98-me/443158-solved-can-t-adjust-display.html

Never underestimate "the google" and software coded by human beings.

 

[Zellio2009]

Windows XP *defaults* to an absurdly low resolution, Ubuntu defaults to the highest that your system will run. I fail to see how you think what Ubuntu is doing is wrong?

Um, no it doesn't. If you run at a less of a reolution then 1024x768, it won't show the screen.

The elitest snob is YOU. YOU are the one that wants someone to make something FOR YOU FOR FREE.

Free for people who think like you? Once again, did people ask for backrub or just for the OS to not explode when you use non-standard components?

Actually, we do know that it didn't share code since both Linux and Minix are open source. They also have radically different kernel designs.

Captain Obvious much?

Also, the terminal shell that BSD, OSX, and Linux all use is the same. They all run Bash, ZSH, KSH, etc... Those are all different PROGRAMS. What you are saying would be similar to saying that Linux is based off of Windows because they both run Firefox.

.... I have no words for that one.

Read the link, it answers that question *exactly* (or if you are too lazy, easy to use == familiar, windows == familiar, therefore easy to use == windows for many people)

Other then the fact that you seem to want to avoid that people who are familiar with Windows can pick up a Mac and have an even easier time?

Not really. I hate OS X. I find it to be the most moronic and illogical OS ever. Throwing a CD away != ejecting it, for example.

I agree with this one.

So stuck up they made an OS that can rival that of some of the richest and largest companies in the industry in their spare time for free?. So stuck up that they are giving it away for free, including the code and all rights to modify and redistribute the code? So stuck up that they provide user support, for free, in their spare time? Wow, they sure are stuck up

User support? Perhaps the same kind of user support as the type your giving?

 

[Gavv]

Windows XP *defaults* to an absurdly low resolution, Ubuntu defaults to the highest that your system will run. I fail to see how you think what Ubuntu is doing is wrong?

This doesn't happen for me. Win XP without the serv packs may install to a low res, but so did Ubuntu a week ago win I installed it. Now I run an older video card but it will certainly run higher than the defaults.

 

[Gavv]

win=when

 

[Zellio2009]

Sure how's this:
http://www.computing.net/answers/hardware/error-codesos-wont-load/49977.html

Or

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=101625

Or

http://forums.techguy.org/windows-95-98-me/443158-solved-can-t-adjust-display.html

Never underestimate "the google" and software coded by human beings.

While these are good examples, Number 1 seems to be curropt install, 2 is ati drivers, 3 is old OS.

The problem is, Xp and Vista automatically go to a resolution you can see at bootup, something that Linux still avoids if you use a super low res.

 

[qkool]

Here's a tip for linux

If your flavor of Linux is faster than any Windows, then you have to squash them at the gaming benchmarks, continously over and over again.

Go ahead scream about unfairness -- etc etc -- about DirectX and such. Doesn't matter. You don't win by playing by your own rules.


Also, the biggest problem on my end is the snot nosed asses who think they're leet or some shit. They go onto windows help forums and reply with useless unconstructive comments. Such as:

Do this
<insert some command line here>
done

Oh wait, you are using an OS by M$ lol


or

Go get Ubuntu!!!!! Problem solved.



That doesn't help, and it makes me hate you more. It also makes people with valid problems hate you more. I'm not saying that all of you guys are like that, but it certainly doesn't help the image.

 

[Zellio2009]

And yes, Vista doesn't support anything less then 800x600, I realize that. What it does support it lets you see it correctly.

Ubuntu can support as low as 320x240, but you gotta jump through alot of hoops to get it to do that.

 

[Zellio2009]

Here's a tip for linux

If your flavor of Linux is faster than any Windows, then you have to squash them at the gaming benchmarks, continously over and over again.

Go ahead scream about unfairness -- etc etc -- about DirectX and such. Doesn't matter. You don't win by playing by your own rules.


Also, the biggest problem on my end is the snot nosed asses who think they're leet or some shit. They go onto windows help forums and reply with useless unconstructive comments. Such as:

Do this
<insert some command line here>
done

Oh wait, you are using an OS by M$ lol


or

Go get Ubuntu!!!!! Problem solved.



That doesn't help, and it makes me hate you more. It also makes people with valid problems hate you more. I'm not saying that all of you guys are like that, but it certainly doesn't help the image.

The problem here is, everyone hates each other. OS's are now religions.

 

[kac77]

Um, no it doesn't. If you run at a less of a reolution then 1024x768, it won't show the screen.

Are you thinking of Vista? Or running a Direct X game?

Windows XP Original all the way to SP2. Doesn't do this.
SP2 will resize on a fresh install. SP3 probably will. But a fresh install of Windows XP will most definitely allow you to open a window that will not fit on the screen.

 

[Zellio2009]

Are you thinking of Vista? Or running a Direct X game?

Windows XP Original all the way to SP2. Doesn't do this.
SP2 will resize on a fresh install. SP3 probably will. But a fresh install of Windows XP will most definitely allow you to open a window that will not fit on the screen.

I was refering to Ubuntu.

 

[Zellio2009]

I think the issue of hate for other users is kinda understandable.

Alot of IT specilists are also Linux users, and people can be stuck up assholes when around idiots all day.

I kinda wish they'd realize, this is humanity, go with the flow damnit.

 

[DukenukemX]

you have to admit that it sure seems like a free operating system would be doing much better against an OS that isn't.

When I can run all my PC games on Linux, then you'll see me make the switch. Would seriously love to see a linux versino of WoW.

When Wine reaches a nearly 100% compatibility to run Windows application on Linux, then we're in business.

 

[kac77]

While these are good examples, Number 1 seems to be curropt install, 2 is ati drivers, 3 is old OS.

The problem is, Xp and Vista automatically go to a resolution you can see at bootup, something that Linux still avoids if you use a super low res.

How are none of those related to the OS, especially video drivers, since the last couple of posts have been the pain it is to install and configure them under Linux?

As far as ubuntu it sets the highest resolution based on video card and EID information.

 

[kac77]

When I can run all my PC games on Linux, then you'll see me make the switch. Would seriously love to see a linux versino of WoW.

When Wine reaches a nearly 100% compatibility to run Windows application on Linux, then we're in business.

I play WoW under linux now.

 

[Zellio2009]

How are none of those related to the OS, especially video drivers, since the last couple of posts have been the pain it is to install and configure them under Linux?

As far as ubuntu it sets the highest resolution based on video card and EID information.

Question: Is this 8.10?

If what your saying is true then I would be wrong. But I tried both 7.10 and 8.04 on crap pcs and got the same results.

BTW, the information Ubuntu gathers can alot of times be wrong. I've had non widescreen resolution forced on me when using a dell 2007 wfp and had to modify xorg.conf to get it to work.

 

[Zellio2009]

How are none of those related to the OS, especially video drivers, since the last couple of posts have been the pain it is to install and configure them under Linux?

As far as ubuntu it sets the highest resolution based on video card and EID information.

One other question I forgot to ask. Could it also once again be non standard equipment?

The video cards and the pcs I tried this on were:

pc 1:

Cyrix 233
128 megs sdram
creative labs riva tnt 1

pc 2:

celeron 500
geforce 4 440 pci card
256 megs ram

As you can see, not hardware used widely.

I'm guessing it got the info from the video card wrong then?

 

[kac77]

One other question I forgot to ask. Could it also once again be non standard equipment?

The video cards and the pcs I tried this on were:

pc 1:

Cyrix 233
128 megs sdram
creative labs riva tnt 1

pc 2:

celeron 500
geforce 4 440 pci card
256 megs ram

As you can see, not hardware used widely.

I'm guessing it got the info from the video card wrong then?

OMG...

Yeah computer 1 is a no go. You'll need 324 MB of SDRAM in that for any hope of success at all . Same goes for PC2, but that is better. Overall Geforce/ATI really don't communicate the EID correctly, or at all, on their older models. Once I moved to a Geforce 8600 and a decent monitor I haven't had any problems with weird resolutions. Also definitely move to 8.10.

Each version of X, while slow as hell to develop, usually brings major things in terms of LCD/CRT detection. Install with an alternate disk and disable all of the technologies that aren't supported by that hardware on install, like ACPI. You might not have to do that, but my goal is to make sure you aren't cursing at the sky.

 

[Zellio2009]

I got machine 1 to work on windows xp professional, I was under the assumption I could get 1 of the buntu distros to work.

Machine 2 does work on ubuntu. Not well....

 

[kllrnohj]

This doesn't happen for me. Win XP without the serv packs may install to a low res, but so did Ubuntu a week ago win I installed it. Now I run an older video card but it will certainly run higher than the defaults.

I only ever installed XP w/ SP1. The default XP driver doesn't even LET you choose higher resolutions, much less default to them. 800x600 I think is the default XP would do. Ubuntu defaults to 1920x1200 for me on my laptop with no driver installed (just VESA).

I'm guessing it got the info from the video card wrong then?

Yes. Install the official nvidia drivers for the system with the GeForce 4, and if the auto detect is still broken, go blame nvidia.

Um, no it doesn't. If you run at a less of a reolution then 1024x768, it won't show the screen.

The resolution it uses at boot and the resolution it uses for the desktop are different. Hell, the drivers are different. You can choose 320x240 for your desktop and it will continue to use whatever the hell it wants while booting, as you are setting the resolution for Xorg, not for bootsplash (which would be set in the grub config if you really want to change it). If your system can't run 1024x768, then upgrade to something built within the last 15 years, put up with not being able to see the progress bar while booting (since it really doesn't matter), or just disable bootsplash.

Other then the fact that you seem to want to avoid that people who are familiar with Windows can pick up a Mac and have an even easier time?

Except they don't. Which, of course, is why Apple has things like one-on-one sessions, free daily training workshops ( http://www.apple.com/retail/workshops/ ), and online tutorials. If Windows users could easily switch to a Mac then Apple wouldn't be spending all that money trying to educate Windows users on how to use a Mac.

.... I have no words for that one.

Why? Did I confuse you? I tried to keep it simple with the Firefox analogy, but I guess I could have lost you. By the way, sudo is an optional program that doesn't ship with many Linux distros. It has nothing to do with Linux, and it is just a way to temporarily switch users. You could say UAC is the Windows version of gksudo, which is sudo with a UI. So I guess Vista is derived from Linux?

User support? Perhaps the same kind of user support as the type your giving?

Documentation: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/index.html
Wiki: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/wiki
Forums: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/webforums

More support than MS will give you unless you pay for additional support.

Free for people who think like you? Once again, did people ask for backrub or just for the OS to not explode when you use non-standard components?

You keep thinking that you are entitled to something. The developers don't give a shit about you or your system, they only care about what works for them. It isn't elitism, its that they are making it for themselves and then giving it away incase others find it useful. You are freeloading, after all.

 

[kac77]

I got machine 1 to work on windows xp professional, I was under the assumption I could get 1 of the buntu distros to work.

Machine 2 does work on ubuntu. Not well....

Try out Xbuntu for PC1 it will install on hardware such as that.

As for PC2, it's so close to usable with the current version i would steal some SDRAM from a junk yard or a library or something....LOL... you don't need much.

 

[Smoken Joe]

The problem here is, everyone hates each other. OS's are now religions.

Truth.


I dont think anyone is going to be convinced here is a a matter of faith not reason.

 

[Rizen]

I know this has probably been repeated ad nauseum throughout this thread, but I won't use Linux until I can easily game on Linux.

I can do everything else I like to do on PCs in Linux, but game - and that's currently a deal breaker. And Vista is a "free" OS for me too. I haven't paid for Windows since 1995.. :-p

 

[kac77]

kllrnohj go easy on him. If he's trying to learn I'm willing to help.

 

[kllrnohj]

kllrnohj go easy on him. If he's trying to learn I'm willing to help.

So am I. I love teaching people who *want to learn*. But he came out attacking Linux, making false claims, and demanding thing - which I hate (especially the bullshit "elitist snobs" remark). So I responded similarly.

 

[kac77]

I know this has probably been repeated ad nauseum throughout this thread, but I won't use Linux until I can easily game on Linux.

I can do everything else I like to do on PCs in Linux, but game - and that's currently a deal breaker. And Vista is a "free" OS for me too. I haven't paid for Windows since 1995.. :-p

IRC/torrents or MSDN subscriptions stolen from work don't count. We are suppose to be law abiding citizens remember...LOL

 

[kllrnohj]

IRC/torrents or MSDN subscriptions stolen from work don't count. We are suppose to be law abiding citizens remember...LOL

There are plenty of legal ways to get a free version of Windows. Heck, I went to a MS developers conference and they gave everyone two versions of Server 2008 (one physical, one virtual), a copy of Vista, Visual Studio 2008, and SQL Server 2008. I also get a bunch of free crap from the MSDN AA (school), including something like 6 versions of Windows.

 

[Rizen]

IRC/torrents or MSDN subscriptions stolen from work don't count. We are suppose to be law abiding citizens remember...LOL

I don't pirate any software anymore but I really can't justify paying for Vista. The only reason I upgraded was for DX10, which really should have been released for XP, as XP was for quite a long time still the superior OS.

 

[kac77]

So am I. I love teaching people who *want to learn*. But he came out attacking Linux, making false claims, and demanding thing - which I hate (especially the bullshit "elitist snobs" remark). So I responded similarly.

Yeah but most them don't know what it's like to to have everything on your computer running 100% legal, or the reality of realizing that while somethings might work better, you don't really own any of it. MS could turn around next week and drop support for something or raise the price of something and they have no recourse but to just follow .

Although I do get it when people don't understand that they aren't paying for any of it. Hell the ability to run a OS and a Internet browser is the result of thousands of programmers working for their own benefit and the benefit of the world in general. Knowledge is power and most of the manufacturers of software/hardware people buy, spend money so that you don't know how it works or how to reverse engineer it in order to keep you in line and buying more for no good reason at all.

Vista is a prime example. Yeah memory is cheap but why is it so bloated? Windows 7 keeps all of the features and removes all of the bloat within 1 year or two. How is that possible? If it's possible, why didn't they do it in the first place?

 

[kac77]

There are plenty of legal ways to get a free version of Windows. Heck, I went to a MS developers conference and they gave everyone two versions of Server 2008 (one physical, one virtual), a copy of Vista, Visual Studio 2008, and SQL Server 2008. I also get a bunch of free crap from the MSDN AA (school), including something like 6 versions of Windows.

Yeah, but the way I look it. The server versions should be free anyway considering you pay not only for the OS, but the damn CALS as well, plus the licenses for the client machines, and additional CALS for database access.

Although I need to attend a developers conference... it's been a while.

 

[GenesisFactor]

we can all site here and agrue about our expereices with linux and windwos, and our view points, but Information Weekly, sadly, is correct.

I have installed linux on serveral machines of mine and my frineds. No one lasted over a week other than myself. People are really afriad of change and learning and trying new things. they don't care what you do, it just needs to work and do what THEY want it to do. Linux takes time and research, and perplexes even me at times (you ever try to sync a pocket PC with SynCE and Multisync? Or use a firewire hdd?) You are dependant on developers who aren't being paid a salary to maintain. things can be left undone for a while, or projets abandoned until anothe rcurious and knowledagble party comes in. in the end, the first sin of trouble, people go crying back.

I, however, love linux over vista. XP...not so much, except for a 64bit OS. If i had a choice between the three, i would try to make a XPuntu.

 

[kllrnohj]

Yeah, but the way I look it. The server versions should be free anyway considering you pay not only for the OS, but the damn CALS as well, plus the licenses for the client machines, and additional CALS for database access.

Although I need to attend a developers conference... it's been a while.

Heh, I'm running Server 2008 on my laptop. Its not actually doing any server work, but I installed it because it has a much smaller install footprint than Vista. Installed the Desktop Effects and Wireless (or whatever) features and I was good to go Faster to boot as well

 

[Shadow2531]

Data loss bug?? LMAO.. First that bug is still open..... in Gusty and Feisty. Here in 2009 we run 8.10. Nice over reaction. I've seen that bug before but I haven't seen it in a long time.And the bug is that keys repeat themselves. You don't lose data.

It still exists in 8.10 for Ubuntu and Kubuntu and has never been fixed. And, it is a data loss bug if the key you pressed that triggers the repeating is del or backspace etc. Or, if the repeat gets triggered as you pop up a menu, it can cause apps to quit without saving. You've obviously never had the bug bite you like that or you'd know how bad it can be.

And that doesn't happen in Windows XP???!! Give me a break. Open Display Properties in 640X480 or anything lower and you'll struggle just like anyone would on any OS. That's why in 2009 we can run large resolutions so we can see more.

Not like in Ubuntu. With Ubuntu, GUI components can break at low resolutions. In Windows, everything is still accessible at least.

Maybe before 8.04, but sorry there's a text GUI in recovery mode that will pretty much set any resolution you want. If the nvidia drivers are installed correctly it manually adds whatever resolution you set to xorg.

I'm sorry, the problem still exists in 8.10.

That bug has existed for Live and Audigy cards in Windows XP for quite some time as well. If it's checked.... uncheck it.

Never had a problem with it on Windows. But like I said, nn Kubuntu for example, if you uncheck it (which you have to somehow know that you need to open the console and execute alsamixer and uncheck it), Kmix (by default) will just recheck it for you, which sucks. You can change Kmix though, but it's a bad default.

It looks like you have used Ubuntu before as the issues you've listed did in fact exist but most of them if not all have been resolved or occur far less frequently than you make them out to be.

These issues still exist in 8.10.

Its nice to list problems, but overreacting like Ubuntu was conspiring to blow up your machine isn't very accurate.

No overreacting here. Don't know what you're referring to.

 

[temujin987]

linux is only free if your time is worthless. i installed linux twice and wiped it again because it's just not worth the time. 100 bucks for an OS that just runs with little efforts and loads of apps that just run too, that's fine with me.

 

[kllrnohj]

linux is only free if your time is worthless. i installed linux twice and wiped it again because it's just not worth the time. 100 bucks for an OS that just runs with little efforts and loads of apps that just run too, that's fine with me.

Only because you grew up with Windows. If you grew up with Linux you would be saying pretty much the exact opposite "Who would want to spend $100-300 for an OS that is so confusing to use?!?!?" Familiar is user friendly, plain and simple. I switched to Linux to learn, and I keep using it because many things are just better. Amarok, for example, is the single greatest music player in the history of forever. I also don't have to worry about viruses, or spyware, or music CDs installing rootkits, or any of that crap. Since I'm familiar with both Windows and Linux, I find them equally easy to use (with Linux overall being easier since I can work much, much faster in it)

 

[Manaknight]

That's a personal preference statement. There's nothing wrong with that. If you don't like it because you don't like it then that's perfectly normal. However, some people have put up strawmen that really don't make sense for people like myself who use it on a day to day basis.

gotcha,

actually I use linux at work, we run novell server over linux. For backend servers I think it is efficient and competitive and i think it works great in place of a windows backend in many areas of industry. HOWEVER that being said, i think there are definitely a multitude of scenarios where windows server will beat out a novell back end. Off the top of my head i can think of multimedia and design related industries, and heavy remote access servers. For some reason our citrix setup also doesn't like to play nice with it.

 

[fragalot]

novell & microsoft are practically in bed with eachother :/

 

[kac77]

It still exists in 8.10 for Ubuntu and Kubuntu and has never been fixed. And, it is a data loss bug if the key you pressed that triggers the repeating is del or backspace etc. Or, if the repeat gets triggered as you pop up a menu, it can cause apps to quit without saving. You've obviously never had the bug bite you like that or you'd know how bad it can be.

Regardless of you making a mountain out of a mole hill, find me the bug in launchpad. Because what you linked was for previous versions.

Not like in Ubuntu. With Ubuntu, GUI components can break at low resolutions. In Windows, everything is still accessible at least.

GUI components do not break. They go off the screen like in any other but they do not crash or hang because of your resolution.

I'm sorry, the problem still exists in 8.10.

Well find me the link? You're the one making all of these assertions. So find it.

Never had a problem with it on Windows. But like I said, nn Kubuntu for example, if you uncheck it (which you have to somehow know that you need to open the console and execute alsamixer and uncheck it), Kmix (by default) will just recheck it for you, which sucks. You can change Kmix though, but it's a bad default.

Well I have seen the same exact problem in Windows. Uncheck the box, or install Gnome and use that if the problem is that bad. it's not like you have to reinstall to do this.

These issues still exist in 8.10.

I don't think you are comprehending what i am saying. You can set the resolution in recovery mode using the text based GUI, which reconfigures Xorg directly. For you to keep saying "it's still open" when it's obvious you're talking about an older version is ignorant, and not accurate.