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Windows Home Server FAQ

Kenworth said:
One day while playing BFBC2 I started getting horrible packet loss or latency, I wasn't sure. After ordering a new Intel nic, buying a new cable modem, and resetting the router completely I am still getting what is now dropped packets. Of course the ISP says nothing is wrong but I get the same behavior when I direct connect to my gaming rig. It was only then when I hooked everything back up I noticed the crazy activity on the router coming from the WHS. Now, my house is prewired and I think that may have something to do with it overall so the next step is to bypass even that and sit the damn modem right next to my machine.
Click to expand...

Or just run a simple test at the home of someone in the general vicinity w/the same ISP... My DSL provider had some severe packet loss issues a few years ago (which was just a subset or remnant of even more severe problems they had)... Took a while for them to fix it, and a lot of bitching on the part of the more enthusiast-type users (since the impact on the casual web browser wasn't as apparent). They had me in particular (I'm probably amongst their oldest customers in PR) on some old port that had some screwed up upload bottleneck on top of everything else, which took even longer to fix.

Sigh... /rant on The service is finally pretty stable again (as it was for the first few years), tho I'm not sure why I put up with any of it, still grossly overpriced at $45 or $50 for 1MB down/512KB up... Cable co an give me 6MB/512KB for like $35 (as a cable subscriber) but they have some ridiculous 20GB bandwith cap and I haven't bothered to test whether I go over that every month or not. :( /rant off
 
drgnfang said:
It was ~ 20 hours for each of the full 1TB drives I've replaced in mine.
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Damn, how many files did you have on those drives? That's a serious amount of time...

So, my case might be different, so no idea if it applies. Thing is, I have 100% file duplication (well, almost, there are a couple of folders either with no data or with no duplication, so DE doesn't mess stuff up by constantly accessing the files). I had to remove one of my three drives a couple of weeks ago (1x1TB system drive + 2x1.5TB data drives) due to a pending sectors crisis (600+, and WHS was reporting HDD block failures).

After determining which of the 1.5TB drives was failing (at the time, they were about 60% full), I removed it from storage. I think it took a couple of hours, at most. Or course, since I had duplication enabled on most of the content, WHS might have changed the tombstone pointers and only move the non-duplicated data, and then duplicating the data; or duplicate the data to the remaining drive, and obsolete the old data on the go (either way is fine, though the second one is safer).

If at all possible, add at least one drive before removing another. The extra space might allow DE a little less work deciding where it will put the moved files, since there are load balancing calculations to be taken into account when files are added/moved on a WHS.

Cheers.

Miguel
 
Yea i removed a full 2TB drive from my pool, and it took me 5.5 hours
 
98% of my data is non-duplicated. I see zero reason to waste space duplicating DVD data that I can easily re-rip from the originals. So moving 900+ gigs of data from one WD green to another WD green takes a long time I guess.
 
drgnfang said:
98% of my data is non-duplicated. I see zero reason to waste space duplicating DVD data that I can easily re-rip from the originals.
Click to expand...
I wasn't criticizing, sorry if it came across like criticism. If it's non-essential data and you have ways to get it back quick(ish), then duplication is in fact wasted space (unless of course you preferred not to have the extra hassle of re-ripping everything... hehe)

drgnfang said:
So moving 900+ gigs of data from one WD green to another WD green takes a long time I guess.
Click to expand...
nitrobass24 said:
Yea i removed a full 2TB drive from my pool, and it took me 5.5 hours
Click to expand...
This kind of difference, added to my own, seems to point out that DE is in fact actively load-balancing the extra pool space on each HDD, instead of just copying the files and then load-balancing them.

AND it also seems that my previous thought about DE not moving duplicated files, only changing tombstone pointers and re-duplicating data, when removing a drive from the pool might have something to it.

The per-file load-balancing, if true, is probably not the smartest way to handle things. It's probably the safest (it prevents a drive failure before load-balancing to wipe out a potentially large part of the pool data), but it does seem to add a rather huge overhead...

Which means, as I said before, if that really is the way DE works, a drive remove operation in systems with large non-duplicated shares should be preceded, whenever possible, by a drive add operation, preferably larger than the drive to be removed, so DE has a large extra space to dump files to before the load-balancing algorithm kicks in and slows the move operation to a crawl.

Cheers.

Miguel
 
What I can say, is that last time I rebuilt my WHS I had the OS drive and two WD 2tb drives in it. I attached my other drives to my desktop and dumped all the data back over the network. I was using teracopy at the time (I've since quit using it) and watching the drive activity I watched each file go to separate drives as the system kept them balanced. As I emptied the 1TB drives and added them to the pool, WHS would put the files on the new drive until it was even with the other data drives in the pool then it would go back to splitting them between drives. When I was finished moving the old data over every drive except the OS drive and the last drive I added were at level usage on a percentage basis.

I just added two 2tb drives about three weeks ago, one has 4g of data and 0.3g shadow, the other is 0g data and 0.3g shadow. My (formerly) half full 2tb drive is now at 86%.

The only other thing I can add is that when I've previously removed drives the rest of the storage pool came out balanced (percentage wise) in usage afterwards.
 
I just installed WHS on an old dell computer. I can't get it to connect to the internet

It's missing ethernet controller drivers and gpu drivers and probably something else. I downloaded xp drivers dell site, they said installed successfully when I ran them, but I'm still missing the drivers and have no internet/lan...

Do device drivers have to be specific for Server 03? If so, how do most people go about installing WHS on an old pc?
 
Kulith said:
I just installed WHS on an old dell computer. I can't get it to connect to the internet

It's missing ethernet controller drivers and gpu drivers and probably something else. I downloaded xp drivers dell site, they said installed successfully when I ran them, but I'm still missing the drivers and have no internet/lan...

Do device drivers have to be specific for Server 03? If so, how do most people go about installing WHS on an old pc?
Click to expand...

usually the XP drivers work, but not always.
Are you sure you installed the right XP drivers?

Whats your service tag?
 
leagle said:
Windows XP drivers usually work.
Click to expand...
While that is mostly true, there are some installers that don't properly recognize W2K3 and either refuse to run (like Intel GMA950 IGP drivers) or don't install the drivers.

In those cases, you need to manually install the driver: go to the Device Manager and upgrade the missing drivers either by letting the wizard try and find an updated driver (if the driver installer ran successfully) or by pointing it to the correct folder where the driver is located (you have to get a non-EXE version of the driver, and unpack it to a folder).

I personally have to use the second approach (folder pointing) for most non-native drivers when using W2K3, and find it useful to trim some stuff up from the OS that would otherwise be installed (like tray applications that get unused on server - and particularly WHS - scenarios).

Cheers.

Miguel
 
Kulith said:
It's missing ethernet controller drivers and gpu drivers and probably something else. I downloaded xp drivers dell site, they said installed successfully when I ran them, but I'm still missing the drivers and have no internet/lan...

Do device drivers have to be specific for Server 03? If so, how do most people go about installing WHS on an old pc?
Click to expand...

On WHS, ethernet is the only thing that matters in this case. If you are really set on making this machine work for now, grab an Intel nic (I presume this machine has an open PCI and isn't PCI-E?) and just let all the other stuff like sound and the IGP slide. You don't need it unless you plan on working on the WHS for other things which is typically not recommended anyway. The only thing I would be curious about is if you have IGP, and you can't get that to run, then is that software bundled with the storage controller software? This is where you need to have up to date software for WHS. If this is a Frankenstein's Monster then let us know what you will be using it for.
 
Kenworth said:
On WHS, ethernet is the only thing that matters in this case.
Click to expand...
While this is mostly true, there is a catch about VGA drivers, which can cause performance to be sub-par.

Thing is, the standard Windows XP/2K3 VGA driver is purely software-based. Meaning video output will ALWAYS be rendered by the CPU. And while WHS doesn't actually need video output, video output IS STILL rendered.

So, in short, if you skip VGA driver installation, you'll loose a little bit of CPU power (which can climb to ghastly proportions if for any reason you end up rendering high resolutions and/or more than one window). Also, I have noticed some sluggishness on system response, on occasion.

If at all possible, I do recommend taking the extra time to install the "bare" VGA drivers (only the driver, not the extra stuff, like tray add-ins) from the manufacturer.

Cheers.

Miguel
 
Hey guys thanks for the replys. The dell service tag is 6HBNP71 . The driver under network didn't do anything.

I'm just setting it up as a WHS, not trying to do anything special with it. I would rather not spend money on it
 
__Miguel_ said:
Thing is, the standard Windows XP/2K3 VGA driver is purely software-based. Meaning video output will ALWAYS be rendered by the CPU. And while WHS doesn't actually need video output, video output IS STILL rendered.

So, in short, if you skip VGA driver installation, you'll loose a little bit of CPU power (which can climb to ghastly proportions if for any reason you end up rendering high resolutions and/or more than one window). Also, I have noticed some sluggishness on system response, on occasion.
Click to expand...

I have never had the problem the original poster presented, but if you say so, The Dude abides. I actually had figured the standard VGA software would have been okay since he was able to see a screen sometime during the process. But what you are saying is even if the adapter isn't properly installed the generic drivers may rob from the cpu to do that process. Makes sense, just never really had that problem before. (And if I did, the person I built it for hopefully hasn't noticed :eek:)
 
I fixed it by following Miguel's advice and pointing Device Manager to the extracted folder.

Now how do I add things to the server? I just drag stuff into the "Music" shared folder? It's transferring at 200 kb/s ...
 
Kulith said:
I fixed it by following Miguel's advice and pointing Device Manager to the extracted folder.

Now how do I add things to the server? I just drag stuff into the "Music" shared folder? It's transferring at 200 kb/s ...
Click to expand...

That's low even for your old hardware. It is probably a network issue, but I'd recommend that you create a new thread and supply some more info on your network hardware, client system, etc.

As far as how to actually use WHS, there are plenty of resources on line. Google is your friend. It is probably more efficient to do some reading and then post here when you have specific questions.
 
Kulith said:
I fixed it by following Miguel's advice and pointing Device Manager to the extracted folder.
Click to expand...
:) Glad it worked!

Kenworth said:
I actually had figured the standard VGA software would have been okay since he was able to see a screen sometime during the process.
Click to expand...
Yes, the standard VGA drivers are OK. But there's a difference between OK and Very Good :p

Kenworth said:
But what you are saying is even if the adapter isn't properly installed the generic drivers may rob from the cpu to do that process. Makes sense, just never really had that problem before. (And if I did, the person I built it for hopefully hasn't noticed :eek:)
Click to expand...
Yes, that's the case. You can run a quick test: load up XP without specific VGA drivers (Vista and 7 have drivers for most GPUs, this is a pre-Vista issue only) and try to move a window with its contents visible. You'll most likely end up with horizontal tearing and a massive spike of CPU usage.

Thankfully, Vista sorted some of these issues from the get-go, most stuff "just works" right after a Vista/7 install (though I still prefer installing manufacturer drivers).

@Kulith: Though a separated thread might do you very good, try this:
1- Try and install manufacturer drivers for storage and chipset. These sometimes help hardware missbehaving using standard drivers (SiS and VIA chipsets come to mind...);
2- After completing 1, check IRQ sharing using Device Manager. If the NIC and the storage controller share the same IRQ, either find a way of getting them on separate IRQ lines or get a new NIC and be done with it. IRQ sharing can be a MASSIVE bandwidth hog (been there too many times already).

Cheers.

Miguel
 
Kulith said:
I fixed it by following Miguel's advice and pointing Device Manager to the extracted folder.

Now how do I add things to the server? I just drag stuff into the "Music" shared folder? It's transferring at 200 kb/s ...
Click to expand...

Maybe try to get ethernet drivers from the OEM - Realtek or whoever? I had slow speeds like that on mine and when I went with the Realtek drivers instead of whatever came with the board, it worked much better.
 
My WHS had 1 SATA 160gb drive in it, and I filled it up at 11mb/s.

So I added a IDE 160gb drive in it and added it to the pool. Now I only get 1mb/s transfers? Anybody know why?

Edit: eh one drive is 99% full and the other is 1%, how do I get them to even out?
 
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I'm leaning towards a SM 1156/Xeon setup myself for my next server update. That X8SIL-F looks pretty slick. I'm also looking at the X8SIA-F as don't really need a MATX and like the idea of more expansion. The L3406 looks like a great CPU as well for a low power server grade component.
 
Kulith said:
My WHS had 1 SATA 160gb drive in it, and I filled it up at 11mb/s.

So I added a IDE 160gb drive in it and added it to the pool. Now I only get 1mb/s transfers? Anybody know why?
Click to expand...

Cause IDE sucks
 
Drive Balancer Add-in

But that wont fix your problem......get a decent drive.
 
Kulith said:
Is that the only reason though?
Click to expand...

You can use the driver balancer add in that nitrobass24 referenced to even out the drives in the short term, but that ide drive is going to be slow no matter what. And it is only going to get slower as it gets older.

One other thing you can do is to check the SMART status of each of the drives to see if one or both are starting to fail.

Unsolicited observation: From your previous posts, it looks like you just installed WHS on an old Dell that was lying around. If you just want to play around and get comfortable with the software before spending money on a new machine, that is a great way to do it. But, if you are storing important information on it that isn't backed up elsewhere, you are setting yourself up for data loss. If you want to use the old Dell as a real server, you probably wouldn't have to spend much to make it much faster and much more reliable. A little more RAM, a new hard drive or two, and a new NIC would make a world of difference. I'd still keep good backups of important data, but at least you'd get a better taste of how things should work. And the best part is that most, if not all, of the items I just listed would be transferable to a new machine if you decided to build one.
 
I understand, but my reasoning was I might as well use my old drives for more duplication space etc...

Will an IDE drive really bottleneck the entire pool? Nothing is important enough that I'd worry about data loss...so I'd rather use it if it works than let it go to waste.
 
Hi guys,
I'm in trouble with my server. I switch motherboard from asrock G41LE to P5Q WS to have inboard raid + pcix for additionnal raid cards. My homeserver boot normaly on the new mobo with the sata ports configured in IDE mode.
I've switch to RAID mode -> BSOD but I knew that.I was unable to have the system boot even after modify the registry and add the raid driver so I've backed up the system and goes to a new fresh installation.
Still in RAID mode, I launch the setup and the first problem was that windows don't have the driver for this controller. After some hours to find a trick to do the F6 without floppy but with a USB stick configured as floppy in the BIOS of the motherboard, I've got something.
The first step of the installation is ok, with the nice GUI I've help windows to find the driver on the usb stick, files started to copy on the hard drive, expand and the lot. First reboot and the system boot up on the hard drive, it show the old fashon windows installer with F6 to add controller driver. The installer find my floppy usb stick, the driver too (IaStor.sys something) but then an error message : the system cannot copy the .sys file (code error 18).
I've tried something else on the usb stick (http://www.d-a-l.com/help/windows-xp-help/29558-setup-cannot-copy-file-iastor.html#post165195) and now I've got "code error 14" and the system still stop here.
Does someone here had successfullly installed whs on a ICH10R mobo in raid mode ? I can't find something with google.
 
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My system drive is only on one drive but I've got 2x 1to + 2x1,5to in two raid1. Do you see another solution ?
 
Well RAID1 kinda defeats the purpose of WHS.

Just run WHS in IDE mode
Install one of each disk, copy contents from mirrored drive to the pool.
Add other drives
enable duplication.
 
I've already thought of this but it's not the solution I've chosen because I don't want to depend of WHS for several reasons, mainly if one day I want to change to another OS its way easier like this (thinking to freenas for example but its off-topic).
But you're totally right and for the moment it could be easier like this.
 
Zycker said:
I've already thought of this but it's not the solution I've chosen because I don't want to depend of WHS for several reasons, mainly if one day I want to change to another OS its way easier like this (thinking to freenas for example but its off-topic).
But you're totally right and for the moment it could be easier like this.
Click to expand...

Actually, it won't work for Freenas because Freenas requries your disks to be UFS formatted. If you decide to change systems at some point, you are going to have to shuttle some data around. It is just a fact of life. Don't make things harder than they need to be.
 
After too many hours, it finally works.
Thank you for the link nitrobass24, I've tried this but got an error with a software in the begining so I've tried something else.
On my P5Q WS there are 6 sata by the ICH10R chip and 2 e-sata by a Marvell chip. I've plugged the system hdd on an e-sata, my dvd burner on the ich10r in IDE mode. After this I've installed the raid driver in windows, switch from IDE mode to RAID mode and finally plug the system hdd on the ich10r.
 
I have found that RAID 1 can be useful on WHS.

The only benefit of RAID 1 on WHS is on the system drive in most cases. Folder duplication is more sensible for the pooled drives because it can be used only on the data you want it to. With LOTS of backed up Blu-rays this can be a huge waste of space, but for more personal data is beneficial.

I use RAID 1 on system drive NOT as a backup. RAID 1 is not a backup solution, as data wise anything that happens to drive also happens to the other. But if a drive fails this can be extremely beneficial.

When WHS crashes due to user error, virus...etc...it only affects the 20GB system partition. This is not hard to recover as using server re-installation is possible from WHS install disk. When a server recovery is performed it ONLY modifies the 20GB partition on the system drive, leaving all tombstones on secondary partition alone. This allows you to easily recover all you shares and pooled drives without too much trouble and minimal work. All that is lost is user accounts for the server, which need to be setup again.

When WHS system drive crashes due to mechanical drive failure, this can become a much more serious issue, as both partitions on drive can be lost forever. This does not make it impossible to recover your data, or at least most of it. But it is a PITA doing so if you have 10+ TB of data to recover. This is where RAID 1 proves beneficial with WHS.


Well a couple months ago my system drive crashed. All data on the WHS drives (nearly 10TB worth) was there and recoverable, but took well over a week of copying and drive juggling. But before this recovery process I decided to look more into RAID 1 for the OS drive. After looking into it I decided to use RAID 1 using an EXTERNAL RAID card, not the motherboard controller. My purpose of using and external card was 1) more expandability of drive storage and 2) If motherboard fails I can easily migrate to another board( as long as it has comparable chipset).

I wanted to keep it as cheap as I could but knew decent RAID cards can get expensive. I went through three different RAID cards before finding the benefit I was looking for. The first one I tried (60$) I was getting ~80MBs max speed out of the RAID 1, unacceptable. Second one -$70 maxed out at 90MBs, again unacceptable. Third one I tried (Highpoint 2300) was perfect as I was getting 150-160MBs on RAID 1 array, this was faster than what I was getting from MB controller (~120MBs). I found a deal on this card for $120. retail price was $150. I setup this array on 2x 500 MB WD blues for WHS OS(TLER enabled).

Conclusion: RAID 1 is useful for WHS OS protection from mechanical drive failure as it can save alot of time if you have alot of data on your server or plan on expanding it over time. I always highly recommend to still backup critical personal data on an external HDD occasionally as a precautionary measure. I use multiple computers in the home, and it is useful to access all my data from any of them. I wonder what WHS 2 will have involved in transferring all my data over to a new server OS:confused::eek:
 
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Hey guys,

How easy is it to migrate WHS to new hardware in case of a hardware failure (motherboard)? Can you just pop in new motherboard/cpu and hope that WHS will find its way there?

I have some spare AMD parts here, but I am a bit weary about their reliability as 3 of my AMD systems failed me in the past. I am not if it's better to spend some money on new intel parts at this point.
 
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