Windows XP effect, too much time between major releases. That OS needed an overhaul far sooner than it happened, I don't care how warm and fuzzy you felt about it.
You're missing the sarcasm icon, I think...
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Windows 8 Will Be Available Oct. 26th
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wonderfield
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No multi-desktop/virtual desktop support and a severe lack of window management hotkeys (like one to minimize active windows). The absence of these makes a multi-application workflow nightmarish. Having multiple virtual desktops, being able to assign applications to those desktops and being able to switch quickly from one virtual desktop to another makes working with multiple open applications so much better.
Windows does have Aero Snap going for it (though the utility of that is hampered by its lack of customizability), and multi-display support is good, but it's not enough to compete with what other window managers offer.
heatlesssun
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And who did you determine what is the of greater need of hundreds of millions of Windows users? If average users can't figure out Metro or the Start Screen, gee, window management, that's something average people will just instantly love and care about.
heatlesssun
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Nightmares! Oh no!!!!!
Really, get multiple monitors and/or learn some hotkeys and HOW to use them, piece of cake to fly between things, it's just not the Linux way. And there's third party solutions as well that support virtual desktops and such.
Ashbringer
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Ubuntu doesn't have a start button, which is why Mint is so popular. Probably more popular then Ubuntu itself. Ubuntu has seen a lot of changes, as has the Linux kernel. For example, the drivers keep changing as well as support. Things like the amazing 200 line linux code, and the Brain Fuck Scheduler.
In 10 years of Windows the file system that was used was NTFS. Linux has went from ext2, ext3, ext4, and now it's trying to move onto Btrfs. Linux isn't really limited even to those file systems, as there's many more choices, but those are the top choices.
Lets also not forget that Linux is also Android, and that OS has a lot of changes. Enough to make it compete against iOS.
Steelgrave
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That's not fear of change, that's the lack of someone coming up with something better. It's ~50 years old because it works very well.
Or are you one of those guys that drives an all electric vehicle? Because you know those internal combustion engines are archaic to the point of making *nix look young.
bigdogchris
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Some people like efficiency, which IC is notOr are you one of those guys that drives an all electric vehicle? Because you know those internal combustion engines are archaic to the point of making *nix look young.
Well, I use KDE with GNU/Linux.
1.I can configure the focus policy for windows. With Microsoft Windows, you have to click on a window to focus it and clicking on the window brings it to the front. This makes it very difficult to work with overlapping windows as anytime you click on a bigger window, it shoves the smaller window to the background.
Just as a demonstration, this is what I am referring to..
2.I can configure focus policies to prevent new windows from stealing focus. I can do this on a system-wide basis as well as a per window or per application basis.
3.I configure many other advanced features of the window manager. I can even do this on a per application/per window basis.
1
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4.I can group windows and specify the criteria for grouping them. I can also group them manually. I can assign a hotkey to pull up a given group of windows.
There are countless other possibilities. My system confirms to my needs, not to the needs of someone's marketing department and allows to me to customize it as such. If KDE does something I don't like, I'm free to switch to another desktop environment.
Do you expect me to tug around an extra monitor when I am traveling?
heatlesssun
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It's a very simple and quick manner to switch between desktop apps instantly with the Win+Number Key.
Stormwalker
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I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to OS preferences.
I really like Ubuntu on my home desktop. I think the Unity interface is a great improvement over the previous gnome interface. I don't like Mint nearly as much. I sometimes use the KDE DE for the fun of something different, but always find myself coming back to Unity because I like it better.
I also like Vista x64 on my laptop, I passed on upgrading to Win7 on it, as I didn't see it as much of an upgrade. I'll be upgrading it to Win8 though, as that will be a significant upgrade, and I'm looking forward to running Win8 on it. I don't really mind Vista at all, and I thought it was worlds better than WinXP.
I run Win7 on my work computer, and I'll probably upgrade that to Win8 as well.
If [H] were a highschool, I'd probably be getting beaten up in the locker room right now LOL.
I really like Ubuntu on my home desktop. I think the Unity interface is a great improvement over the previous gnome interface. I don't like Mint nearly as much. I sometimes use the KDE DE for the fun of something different, but always find myself coming back to Unity because I like it better.
I also like Vista x64 on my laptop, I passed on upgrading to Win7 on it, as I didn't see it as much of an upgrade. I'll be upgrading it to Win8 though, as that will be a significant upgrade, and I'm looking forward to running Win8 on it. I don't really mind Vista at all, and I thought it was worlds better than WinXP.
I run Win7 on my work computer, and I'll probably upgrade that to Win8 as well.
If [H] were a highschool, I'd probably be getting beaten up in the locker room right now LOL.
Fark_Maniac
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Oh I remember all of that.
I'll be picking up a copy for my wife's laptop for $15 since we just had to get a new one. I'm also going to grab two copies for dad's Vista and mom's XP install.
I'm willing to bet that this offer has more to do with the giant number of XP and Vista users vs Win7 users. With XP reaching EOL, it makes perfect sense for users who want to keep using their system to upgrade to Win8 while still getting security patches and such. Win7 has a strong enterprise following and is a very good OS; I really don't think that is the target audience for the offer.
inbedwithhomer
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I dunno.
It's faster.. doesn't take any more clicks to do things. It's a little odd, I'll grant that, but an OS is just a platform for applications. The ones I use work perfectly and are located where I want them.
For $39, absolutely.
It's faster.. doesn't take any more clicks to do things. It's a little odd, I'll grant that, but an OS is just a platform for applications. The ones I use work perfectly and are located where I want them.
For $39, absolutely.
Red Squirrel
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I'm going to stick to Xubuntu 11.10.
Unknown-One
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Windows has supported this for over a decade...
There are a full array of window management hotkeys.
Minimizing the currently active window is Winkey + down arrow, by the way.
You can do all of this with Windows, so I'm not sure what you're on about.
That said, I find multiple desktops to be HORRIBLY cumbersome and kludgey on every single OS I've ever tried them on. I see no reason to use multiple desktops.
What is Windows window management missing, exactly?
wonderfield
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Where exactly do I enable virtual desktop support? There's certainly nothing about it in the documentation, near as I can find.
Why I've never seen this documented anywhere before I have no idea. Annoyingly, this only serves to hide windows that aren't maximized (I'd prefer a global 'hide window' shortcut), but a double-tap solves that. That solves one issue of mine.
I defined exactly what it's missing.
Hahaha... Mac users have understand the concept for years. It's called Spaces.
Yeah, ask someone to buy more hardware. Is that all you can recommend? How about stating the obvious: Virtual desktops is a feature other operating systems have implemented for years. It's not a new concept. MS is late to the party.
I know VirtuaWin and Dexpot are available. I'd prefer Dexpot, but it isn't free.
wonderfield
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Amusingly, it's not the first time I've been told to buy more monitors after having expressed an interest in virtual desktops for Windows. In fact, if memory serves, the first time I heard it was from the mouth of a Microsoft employee.
The Redmond equivalent to "you're holding it wrong", basically.
Unknown-One
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The functionality and API hooks to enable it were added many years ago. Microsoft simply does not include the frontend needed to enable the feature with default installations of Windows.
Microsoft has released various tools, for download from Microsoft Technet, that allow access to this functionality. You might remember the "Power Toys for Windows XP" pack, which included a virtual desktop manager directly from Microsoft.
A more current tool for Windows 7 is available here: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881.aspx
Not sure how you didn't find these...
Dunno man, it's posted right here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/keyboard-shortcuts/
Expand the section called "windows logo keyboard shortcuts"
And I shot down all of the things you listed... so... what's missing?
heatlesssun
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I understand the concept, it's not exactly a new complaint as you mention and is obviously useful, I was simply wondering how he determined what was more important.
Physical monitors beats virtual desktops all day long, of course you can combine both. But I also did mention learning Windows keyboard commands. If you don't know them well then sure one can complain of Windows' windows management but the keyboard commands offer a good deal of windowing and task management that most people never avail themselves to.
Too many people around these parts complaining about Windows when they don't fully understand it or even tried to do some research to figure it out, but somehow Windows is lacking. It's rare to read posts where they state "I don't know of a way", or "I'm not sure how I can do {insert function, action, whatever}", they instead proclaim that Windows just doesn't work/doesn't have X feature/is not as good as X OS/etc.
As for the original question, I may be changing my stance on upgrading my desktop to Windows 8. Originally I was having issues with random reboots every other day or so, but I like how it's running so far since my machine rebooted from some updates that were applied recently -- I haven't had any spontaneous reboots. I couldn't ask for more as far as general performance is concerned. I don't like the default actions where all my media and other file types tossed me into Metro apps by default but we all the reason for that and that's easily fixed. I think I'll take a few hours to script my preferences so I don't have to spend too much time customizing my OS when I upgrade in October (late birthday present, yay!).
You have no idea how frustrating it is to wait for so called IT staff to launch Explorer or show the desktop (there are far more examples). They claim to know Windows but somehow Windows+E and Windows+D is "too much for me to remember".
wonderfield
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Why isn't support integrated directly into Windows? Why do I need to ask others how to expose this functionality or Google around for it?
I don't have a Windows 7 machine to test this on at the moment, but it doesn't work in the Windows 8 Release Preview. Alternate desktops just yield a black desktop with a non-functional taskbar.
Given this, I can't determine whether this tool supports all the features I'd want to see in a virtual desktop implementation. This tool certainly spawns additional desktops, but beyond that I cannot discern how it operates. Can I assign applications to desktops such that they always open on a certain desktop (even after a reboot)? Can I switch between desktops by alt-tabbing to the applications to which the desktops are bound? Can I drag files into applications from Explorer windows attached to other desktops?
I had no idea I needed to search Technet for tools to enable multiple desktop support. I checked the local help files for any mention of multiple desktops and virtual desktops after you said the functionality was there. Nothing at all.
Many of know about the programs that were previously posted. We also know that these features don't work as well, or ain't free, as the features on other operating systems.
Desktops? Really? Hahahaha... that's like giving a man asking for a quality beer a Camo.
Yes, because everyone needs to buy multiple monitors. Let me carry one in my backpack to use with my laptop.
heatlesssun
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Probably because it's not asked for a lot, there's already a lot 3rd party support and a very small percentage of users would avail themselves of it, much like the keyboard commands. Not trying to make excuses but this is probably the reality of it for the most part.
I have a number of Windows UI shell tools and yes, pretty none of them work properly in Windows 8, considering that the UI has been radically changed it's not a shock. But in looking at the support forums for these tools the vendors are promising Windows 8 compatibility at some point. But these kinds of utilities almost always tend to break with new versions of Windows and are usually updated in a month or two.
Since it's not something that Microsoft supports directly for end users not a surprise. A web search will quickly show the many desktop managers for Windows.
heatlesssun
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Then use one of the many free solutions available. And yes, probably none work properly with Windows 8 at this time.
wonderfield
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The fact that users need to go scouring the web to find ways to expose a level of functionality that could have been (and by my reckoning, should have been) implemented in the shipping product (and documented) isn't exactly a strong endorsement for Windows. He said the support was there, I searched through Microsoft Help to try and find out how to enable that (knowing full well I would find no relevant results, of course), and there's no mention at all of virtual desktops or multiple desktops. Keep in mind, also, that the tool linked to doesn't even work in Windows 8. Hardly a silver bullet, is it?
With respect to the minimize shortcut, in my defense, I have searched around for shortcuts to minimize windows in the past. I didn't find any mention of Windows+Down. It may not have been listed in the shortcuts list at the time I searched for it. It isn't in Microsoft Help, either. The accusation that I haven't "tried" is perfectly false.
Wonderfield, you can just download the tool and give it a whirl. I did and the only thing I was able to do in Windows 8 on an alternate desktop is launch Task Manager. If I run a new task like Notepad, it opens on my primary desktop. Send Mark Russinovich or Bruce Cogswell a nice letter and maybe they'll look into fixing it for Windows 8.
Gorankar
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If I happen to buy a touch screen device that has it on it, I will gladly use it.
If I buy a non touch screen laptop or desk top, and there continues to be fixes that restore the start menu and keep Metro out of my hair, then I will not go out of my way to avoid it.
Otherwise, forget it.
If I buy a non touch screen laptop or desk top, and there continues to be fixes that restore the start menu and keep Metro out of my hair, then I will not go out of my way to avoid it.
Otherwise, forget it.
He should have said developer support, I assumed that's what he meant. When Microsoft hides a feature or settings, they don't talk about it unless it's in the context of a hotfix. Otherwise, the API functions are for developers only who wish to create and support products based on that functionality. In my opinion, the average user doesn't need another desktop to clutter up and confuse them, and if they really need it, there have been third party apps to handle this for quite a while (Stardock comes to mind). If a tool from 2010 can partially work and not crash Windows 8 then there's hope that someone will have a tool ready by or around the time that Windows 8 ships.
You're right, that is missing from http://support.microsoft.com/kb/126449. I sent them a comment to add the Windows Logo + Up and Down arrow keys for maximizing and minimizing the active window.
My original point still stands since I wasn't necessarily referring strictly to you.
Wow, look at that, text field autocorrect in IE 10! It's about damn time Microsoft!
wonderfield
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I did download the tool. Like I said, you get an alternate desktop, but it's basically non-functional.
wonderfield
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I suspect that tools will be available and will support Windows 8, sure. Perhaps not in the near future, but at some point there'll be enough of a desire for those tools.
That said, I still believe that power users who work with a multi-application workflow do absolutely need multiple desktops. They may not have realized it yet, and they may have invested in a multi-display setup to negate that need somewhat, but it's still a tremendously advantageous feature to have. The average computer user probably has very little experience with other non-Windows operating systems, so they simply don't have any idea what there's to be gained with virtual desktops.
As for 'clutter', the appeal of a decent virtual desktop implementation is that it actually reduces clutter. I have a desktop that's just a text editor. Another just for a web browser, an IRC client and a mail client. Another for the file browser and an FTP client. I can switch between the apps and I'm switching between desktops (so I don't need to worry about what app is where). Each app is assigned to a certain desktop, and they always open on the desktop I've specified. I no longer need to manage the windows, where they are, whether they're visible or not and so forth, and that reduces a lot of clutter and the frustration windows management entails.
If you ask me whether it's more important that Microsoft exploit the growing tablet market with a touch-tailored UI or if it's more important for them to provide a good, robust virtual desktop solution for Windows, I'm going to answer the latter every time. I brought up the issue because I feel it's what Microsoft needs to be doing right now.
Microsoft wants to capitalize on explosive growth in the tablet space: understandable. I'm a Windows user, though. I'm not an MSFT owner. It's been argued that Microsoft is doing what market forces dictate, by focusing on Metro and on tablet exploitation, but I genuinely couldn't care less what language the market's speaking right now. I speak the language of usability and productivity, and I'm using the OS that offers me the features I need to achieve both. Out-of-the-box, fully documented, fully supported and mostly well-designed features. Right now, that OS isn't Windows. It's partly because of software availability on the other side of the fence, but it's also partly because of what features Microsoft isn't delivering.
Ok, how do I configure Windows so that clicking on a window does not bring it to the front of the screen?
How do I configure Windows to stop allowing programs to steal focus?
heatlesssun
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What do you want it to do?
There's been much discussion of this subject over the years, there's any number of fixes that out there. I can't say that I see much of it these days accept during program installs.