Windows 8 helping me sell sell sell.

[Gorankar]

Windows 8 is going to be the biggest flop of the computer age. The Linux and Apple camps will no doubt be laughing hysterically. Anyone who thinks it's a step forward had better go in for a mental evaluation.

Windows 8 is the biggest suckage ever.

Flop or not, Nix will not gain any desktop market share from it, and as like as not, neither will Apple.

People will want Win7 not Nix or Apple. Besides, I fully expect MS will bring the start menu back. Even if they don't, the third party start menus are likely to only get better. I could even see the OEMs installing the start menu for their customers were MS to not include it.

 

[Veilrap]

I really don't understand the Windows 8 hate.

Yes metro looks different. XP looked different from 98, and 2000, Vista and 7 look different than XP change can be good.

Functionally the most important functinality of the start menu is still in place. Tap windows, type, load program. Except now pinning is most powerful because there is simply more space to pin to.

Ignoring Metro, Windows 8 is simply and raw improvement over 7. Better performance, better usability, faster boot times, fully backwards compatable, etc.

 

[daglesj]

Ignoring Metro, Windows 8 is simply and raw improvement over 7. Better performance, better usability, faster boot times, fully backwards compatable, etc.

And I'm sure pretty much all of us that have tried 8 will agree with you on that. I love the new Task Manager etc. really cool to have all that info in one place at last. That side works really well and provides a nice progression on the good work 7 started.

Just pull Metro out of the desktop version and we'll be even happier. Imagine a streamlined version of 8 without Metro. Sounds dreamy to me.

 

[heatlesssun]

I've been using Windows 8 ona dual-screen desktop with a keyboard and mouse, two pen and touch tablets and a convertible Tablet PC also with pen and touch. Is the new Start Screen touch first optimized. Yes. Will average people be able to effectively use Windows 8 with only a keyboard and mouse? Once a person gets used to the new UI I simply don't see why they wouldn't. The question is will the average person be able to get used to it.

Again, the bottom line is that the desktop/laptop PC market simply isn't growing robustly as people use mobile devices more and more for their computing needs. For Windows to remain focused as a keyboard and mouse only OS would simply lead to it being less and less relevant to average people for average things.

In my 10 days of Windows 8 I'm finding that I can do all of the things I've always done. It takes a while to get adjusted to Metro but now that I am it simply isn't the huge anti-productive thing people are claiming and there and even in the beta a few Metro apps that nice.

 

[iroc409]

Again, the bottom line is that the desktop/laptop PC market simply isn't growing robustly as people use mobile devices more and more for their computing needs. For Windows to remain focused as a keyboard and mouse only OS would simply lead to it being less and less relevant to average people for average things.

I'm becoming of the opinion about all the *average* person does with a computer is surf the internet and play Angry Birds-like games. There's a set of users that play actual computer games (the BF3, etc, that won't run on a tablet), and that's about it. Probably only a small percentage actually do work-like-things on their home systems.

That's why the tablet is gaining so much ground, and why Win 8 looks like it does. Just my observations, though. I have friends that think the desktop is going to be totally obsolete in the not-so-distant future. I can only hope not, without huge leaps in tablet horsepower and integration with more devices.

Although, making the computer world tablet-like-only, it does kind of move forward the whole "Idiocracy"-like plot the world is trending to.

 

[maw]

That's why the tablet is gaining so much ground, and why Win 8 looks like it does. Just my observations, though. I have friends that think the desktop is going to be totally obsolete in the not-so-distant future.

I find it rather ironic that one the most popular accessories for tablets is, a keyboard. And one of the biggest complaints about tablets is, small screen.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'm becoming of the opinion about all the *average* person does with a computer is surf the internet and play Angry Birds-like games. There's a set of users that play actual computer games (the BF3, etc, that won't run on a tablet), and that's about it. Probably only a small percentage actually do work-like-things on their home systems.

That's why the tablet is gaining so much ground, and why Win 8 looks like it does. Just my observations, though. I have friends that think the desktop is going to be totally obsolete in the not-so-distant future. I can only hope not, without huge leaps in tablet horsepower and integration with more devices.

Although, making the computer world tablet-like-only, it does kind of move forward the whole "Idiocracy"-like plot the world is trending to.

The desktop won't become obsolete for productive purposes and at some point in the world today almost everyone has SOME need for computer productivity. While Windows and PC sales have been flat Office has never done better. Sure, productive computer use is probably in relative decline versus content consumption but even productive use is climbing in absolute terms.

But yes, you're absolutely right overall and Windows 8 looks the way it does because Microsoft is expecting a tablet and touch screen future and that does look to be the case and Windows 8 definitely works well on tablets.

 

[bigdogchris]

Again, the bottom line is that the desktop/laptop PC market simply isn't growing robustly as people use mobile devices more and more for their computing needs. For Windows to remain focused as a keyboard and mouse only OS would simply lead to it being less and less relevant to average people for average things.

I don't think anyone with half a brain would argue with you about that. Tablet/phone devices are growing much faster than PC sales. No argument here at all.

• Why does there have to be one size fits all interfaces for them though?
• Wouldn't this change be tremendously better received if Windows 8 booted to the normal desktop/Start Menu, then had a Metro style gadget or something similar that when activated, brought up the menu?
• Couldn't the above question be answered with the new 'go to the corner' feature that they are using? - As in go to the corner to bring up Metro, if a gadget wouldn't suffice?
• How is this change to Metro Start Windows on a PC beneficial to consumers more so than doing it the method I suggested?
• If Windows 8 becomes the next ME/Vista and doesn't replace the 900 Million + Windows desktop OSes out there like they want (don't insult me by saying you don't think Microsoft wants to do this), is the 'not growing PC market' still not the most important as you claim is isn't now?
• If the desktop market is still the most important, wouldn't the UI be designed for them, in a one size fits all world that Microsoft wants?

 

[iroc409]

The desktop won't become obsolete for productive purposes and at some point in the world today almost everyone has SOME need for computer productivity.

I agree completely, but one of my friends is frothing at the mouth for tablets and "cloud" technology. He wants to ditch his desktop and was telling me how recently some big corporation ditched their desktops and is switching everyone to iPads.

He's also all over the new cloud version of Premiere, or something, where I guess they used distributed/cloud computing to do video editing over the internet. I don't use Premiere, so I didn't look into it.

They've been saying (and trying) the desktop will die off for over 20 years, and it's not happened yet.

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't think anyone with half a brain would argue with you about that. Tablet/phone devices are growing much faster than PC sales. No argument here at all.

• Why does there have to be one size fits all interfaces for them though?
• Wouldn't this change be tremendously better received if Windows 8 booted to the normal desktop/Start Menu, then had a Metro style gadget or something similar that when activated, brought up the menu?
• Couldn't the above question be answered with the new 'go to the corner' feature that they are using? - As in go to the corner to bring up Metro, if a gadget wouldn't suffice?
• How is this change to Metro Start Windows on a PC beneficial to consumers more so than doing it the method I suggested?
• If Windows 8 becomes the next ME/Vista and doesn't replace the 900 Million + Windows desktop OSes out there like they want (don't insult me by saying you don't think Microsoft wants to do this), is the 'not growing PC market' still not the most important as you claim is isn't now?
• If the desktop market is still the most important, wouldn't the UI be designed for them, in a one size fits all world that Microsoft wants?

I think there's another way to look at it. Windows has kind of always been a one size fits if not all, most solution. As the world moves more and more to tablets and touch screens, Microsoft has no choice be to add that support into Windows, not some touch and tablet only OS. That's ALWAYS been at the core of Windows, adding support for technology as those things have become popular, from Internet to digital cameras to what have you. Adding touch and tablet capabilities is in line with the long history of Windows supporting popular technologies.

As for the default startup into the Start Screen, it does make sense if you think of the desktop as nothing but another Metro app and if the idea about Metro is to promote information. The Start Screen can tell a person a LOT of stuff with the right live tiles and they are faster and easier to deal with than a ton of desktop gadgets.

 

[heatlesssun]

I agree completely, but one of my friends is frothing at the mouth for tablets and "cloud" technology. He wants to ditch his desktop and was telling me how recently some big corporation ditched their desktops and is switching everyone to iPads.

He's also all over the new cloud version of Premiere, or something, where I guess they used distributed/cloud computing to do video editing over the internet. I don't use Premiere, so I didn't look into it.

They've been saying (and trying) the desktop will die off for over 20 years, and it's not happened yet.

There's far too much zero sum thinking in the IT world these days. So many people seem to have difficult time understanding that computers fulfill need and different people have different needs. While those who don't need or use the power of a desktop could get away with only a tablet, and no doubt that's a huge chunk of people, some people will never be able to replace all they do with a tablet.

And the cloud is great for a lot of things, especially for collaboration but connectivity is getting more expensive it seems, not less right now and local storage and execution simply work better for compute and resource intensive things. As long as the cloud costs more and is less capable than what we already have, it's not going to catch on. But it does have a lot of great uses.

 

[Snowdog]

Flop or not, Nix will not gain any desktop market share from it, and as like as not, neither will Apple.

It will do what Vista did. Act as a drag on PC sales. From the reaction I see everywhere, reaction is more negative than it was for vista.

 

[heatlesssun]

It will do what Vista did. Act as a drag on PC sales. From the reaction I see everywhere, reaction is more negative than it was for vista.

The negative reaction to Windows 8 centers only on ONE thing, Metro and the Start Screen. Hate it or love it if you learn to cope with Metro and the Start Screen Windows 8 will work with most everything one has on Windows and might even be a little faster.

That would be difficult to say of Vista.

 

[Gorankar]

It will do what Vista did. Act as a drag on PC sales. From the reaction I see everywhere, reaction is more negative than it was for vista.

That is likely.

 

[iroc409]

As the world moves more and more to tablets and touch screens, Microsoft has no choice be to add that support into Windows, not some touch and tablet only OS.

Microsoft has been trying to put touch technology in Windows for a long time, it's just never caught on until tablets came around. I think Vista had it.

I even had a tablet/touch screen laptop my dad brought home to play with 15-20 years ago. It had a screen similar to older Palm devices, except it was laptop-sized. It was a neat toy, and that was pre-Win-95 (I think, it might have been Win 95).

I think HP even (not that long ago) had a big fancy "create awesome things with your fingers" all-in-one.

I remember the computer Microsoft or someone developed a decade ago that was going to be all the rage in 5 years. It had a HUD, with a belt-mounted trackball type system. Maybe not completely unlike the newer "electronic soldier" systems.

 

[Ryan711]

It will do what Vista did. Act as a drag on PC sales. From the reaction I see everywhere, reaction is more negative than it was for vista.

have you, or anyone in this thread for that matter, used W8 for an extended period of time? I thought the same as everyone else in this thread for the most part. After using W8 with mostly metro use as my main OS for a while, I absolutely LOVE it. Once you become accustomed to it, everything is so much more intuitive than it ever was on 7 or any other version for that matter. I can't wait until the RTM.

Also, to the OP, you're not doing your clients any favors by selling them W7. Metro is the future like it or not, and delaying learning now will only make it harder in the future when it inevitable starts to get more complicated similar to how iOS started out relatively simple and then became ever increasingly complex.

 

[heatlesssun]

Microsoft has been trying to put touch technology in Windows for a long time, it's just never caught on until tablets came around. I think Vista had it.

Yes Vista supports multi-touch at the driver level, Windows 7 added to the OS and I think Windows 8 adds it to the kernel, could be wrong about that but touch is at a much lower level for certain, the installer for Windows 8 even works with touch and pen out of the box, very nice.

The problem for Windows in the touch and tablet world has been multifaceted. x86 just isn't small and power efficient and even though Windows prior to Windows 8 wasn't touch optimized, neither were but a handful of applications. Metro is about getting a whole new generation of applications developed that are touch optimized as much as anything else.

 

[heatlesssun]

have you, or anyone in this thread for that matter, used W8 for an extended period of time? I thought the same as everyone else in this thread for the most part. After using W8 with mostly metro use as my main OS for a while, I absolutely LOVE it. Once you become accustomed to it, everything is so much more intuitive than it ever was on 7 or any other version for that matter. I can't wait until the RTM.

Bingo. I have Windows 8 running natively on four machines with touch, pen, keyboard and mouse input. Until you use Windows 8 and experience ALL that it can do you'll not understand the point. "But 99% of all Windows users only use keyboards and mice!" True, but is that because they don't want to use Windows on other devices and with other input methods or because using Windows with other devices and input methods is suboptimal currently? With all of the Windows 8 bitching over it doesn't work keyboards and mice I'm have ZERO trouble doing so and I don't see this being a problem for average people when they get used to it.

Also, to the OP, you're not doing your clients any favors by selling them W7. Metro is the future like it or not, and delaying learning now will only make it harder in the future when it inevitable starts to get more complicated similar to how iOS started out relatively simple and then became ever increasingly complex.

Bingo again. There's going to me a thousands and thousands of Metro apps coming out, there will be some very cool Metro apps that will work just fine with keyboards and mice and people are going to say "Why did you sell me on Windows 7 when you knew there be tons of programs coming out around the corner that I wouldn't be able to run?"

 

[daglesj]

Also, to the OP, you're not doing your clients any favors by selling them W7. Metro is the future like it or not, and delaying learning now will only make it harder in the future when it inevitable starts to get more complicated similar to how iOS started out relatively simple and then became ever increasingly complex.

Chap, they have managed to go 7 years+ so far with XP. They go 7 then they can go on till Win11 at this rate. They just need to run their SAGE/Excel/Access/Outlook and they are fine.

You know software that companies use to MAKE MONEY with, not WASTE TIME with.

Metro wont be for the likes of the corps that push out the corporate software. They just dont have the time for it.

Windows Tablet isnt going to work I reckon as the market is pretty well sewn up already so thats a mark against metro. And once again I'll say it, thousands and thousands of apps doesn't mean jack if the quality isn't there and that's what I've seen so far with app stores. Why folks think metro will be so different I don't know unless you work for MS?

 

[heatlesssun]

Metro wont be for the likes of the corps that push out the corporate software. They just dont have the time for it.

Actually for corporations that are interested in tablets and touch, which if you listen to all of the IT talk about the iPad in the enterprise there's plenty of interest in tablets and touch, Windows 8 might have a lot of appeal. Corporate users will be able to push their own Metro apps without the Windows Store and those companies will be able to develop Metro apps using Visual Studio and the same skills sets they use currently if they develop Windows applications with Visual Studio, which practically all large companies do today.

Microsoft really is focusing on what seems to be the needs, wants and desires of a LOT of different groups and interests. When that happens there's always going to be unhappy people, and the unhappy people are the ones that want Windows to stay a "pure" desktop OS. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[daglesj]

Actually for corporations that are interested in tablets and touch, which if you listen to all of the IT talk about the iPad in the enterprise there's plenty of interest in tablets and touch, Windows 8 might have a lot of appeal. Corporate users will be able to push their own Metro apps without the Windows Store and those companies will be able to develop Metro apps using Visual Studio and the same skills sets they use currently if they develop Windows applications with Visual Studio, which practically all large companies do today.

Microsoft really is focusing on what seems to be the needs, wants and desires of a LOT of different groups and interests. When that happens there's always going to be unhappy people, and the unhappy people are the ones that want Windows to stay a "pure" desktop OS. Ain't gonna happen.

But they will go with the iPad, not Windows Tablet.

Look at the corporate phone market. Corps are dropping Blackberry and going iPhone. They are not going Windows Phone.

MS has lost that market.

 

[heatlesssun]

But they will go with the iPad, not Windows Tablet.

Look at the corporate phone market. Corps are dropping Blackberry and going iPhone. They are not going Windows Phone.

MS has lost that market.

Why would they go for the iPad without any consideration that Windows 8 could possibly fit in their infrastructure and technology better?

The tablet space as we know it is only two years old. The iPad is by far and the leading tablet platform and device currently but Windows 8 does look to offer a lot of options especially in a corporate IT environment that the iPad can't offer now.

 

[Gorankar]

Can someone explain to me why I want a touch interface on my desktop again?

Look, Metro is fine, but it does not have a place on my desktop. On my tablet, or slate, or even a regular laptop with a touch sensitive screen, sure. But on My PC, the one with three monitors attached to it, Metro is just the way. I am not asking MS to can it, not asking them to not focus on it, or try to get people to use. I simply want a few options, things like, a start button, a close button, apps that work in windows instead of full screen, safe mode without hoops. I am not asking for all that much, just a desktop GUI, for a desk top PC.

I have given Metro hours of my time. I can use it just fine, it just is not there for me in a desk top environment. If you like it, that is great, but don't sit back and pretend that only people that have not tried it, or given it a chance do not like it.

If you want to make Metro more user friendly for me than a dialysis machine with instructions written in Chinese, (No, I can not read Chinese, nor do I work in the medical field), you can start by replacing hover and wait, or hover and click around, with a corner button. You can also add a close button in the normal place for most apps. You can reduce the perception that I need to use KB short cuts just to get around with those two things. Smart phones and tablets tend to have persistent home, back, and settings buttons for a reason.

I do not guess it really matters. MS is going to do what MS wants, and there are people that will defend them regardless. I can sit back and wait for MS on this one. My guess is that they will eventually give me exactly what I want once the screaming gets loud enough. If you thought the hate was bad for Vista, I don't think you have seen anything yet. I did not agree with most of the Vista hate, I thought it got a bad rap, because a few morons tried to use it on old hardware without enough ram, and/or were simply incapable of understanding super fetch, or lacked the sense to figure out that third party app makers demanding unneeded privileges for their apps was the real problem with UAC. Metro is going to get a bad rap because people are going to try and use it on a PC without a touch screen.

I do like WIn8, it boots fast, and seems as snappy, or more so than Win7. I don't like Metro.
I know how to use Metro, I just don't like it on my desktop.

 

[daglesj]

Why would they go for the iPad without any consideration that Windows 8 could possibly fit in their infrastructure and technology better?

The tablet space as we know it is only two years old. The iPad is by far and the leading tablet platform and device currently but Windows 8 does look to offer a lot of options especially in a corporate IT environment that the iPad can't offer now.

I think we have to agree that we live in two different worlds.

 

[bigdogchris]

How is Metro 'faster' than the normal desktop? I keep reading this online. Are the big buttons easier to click than little ones? I can create a bunch of desktop icons with Windows 95. Give me a real reason why Metro is better.

The search box introduced in Vista is IMO the single greatest Windows improvement that I can think of. The Vista UI is an example of making improvements on the previous generation of desktops, while adding improvements, but not removing the core functionality. Metro just throws the baby out with the bathwater and starts over. The desktop hasn't changed much in 20 years for a reason; it works.

10-15 years from now when laptops and tablets are the same thing, then a Windows that is more touch friendly will be needed, but that day is not today. Mobile and stationary computers are going to be separate and I do not see them merging with one another. Desktop and mobile OSes need to represent and best operate the platform that they are running on.

 

[heatlesssun]

I am not asking for all that much, just a desktop GUI, for a desk top PC.

But who WANTS a desktop UI? Until someone can answer this question and point to a desktop market that is growing faster than tablets then the point moot. I'm not saying that you don't have valid points but the numbers simply don't work for a pure desktop OS anymore. And the bottom line is that plenty of people don't see Metro getting in the way. I don't see Metro impeding me on my dual-screen Windows 8 rig. It's different but everything is still there and now that I'm used to it it simply isn't getting in the way.

I have given Metro hours of my time. I can use it just fine, it just is not there for me in a desk top environment. If you like it, that is great, but don't sit back and pretend that only people that have not tried it, or given it a chance do not like it.

Fair enough but what specifically about Metro is permanent problem? Most of the issues I hear about are not permanent problems. Jarring and unintuitive are not a permanent condition. Moreover when one uses Windows 8 on desktops AND tablets or other touch devices it makes a hell of a lot more sense and one might begin to appreciate what Microsoft is attempting to do with Windows 8.

 

[daglesj]

I think going forward we are going to have the situation of a 10% that love Metro and rabidly support it and the rest who just go "why?".

Expect a 100% U-turn from MS in the next month or two.

Metro could well be another one of those things we see in those "Top 10 all time Tech fails of......" lists.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Microsoft has been trying to put touch technology in Windows for a long time, it's just never caught on until tablets came around. I think Vista had it.

I even had a tablet/touch screen laptop my dad brought home to play with 15-20 years ago. It had a screen similar to older Palm devices, except it was laptop-sized. It was a neat toy, and that was pre-Win-95 (I think, it might have been Win 95).

I think HP even (not that long ago) had a big fancy "create awesome things with your fingers" all-in-one.

I remember the computer Microsoft or someone developed a decade ago that was going to be all the rage in 5 years. It had a HUD, with a belt-mounted trackball type system. Maybe not completely unlike the newer "electronic soldier" systems.

The ironic thing is that Vista does run on tablets and for the most part runs well (Trimble used it before 7 came out)..

 

[Gorankar]

But who WANTS a desktop UI? Until someone can answer this question and point to a desktop market that is growing faster than tablets then the point moot. I'm not saying that you don't have valid points but the numbers simply don't work for a pure desktop OS anymore. And the bottom line is that plenty of people don't see Metro getting in the way. I don't see Metro impeding me on my dual-screen Windows 8 rig. It's different but everything is still there and now that I'm used to it it simply isn't getting in the way.



Fair enough but what specifically about Metro is permanent problem? Most of the issues I hear about are not permanent problems. Jarring and unintuitive are not a permanent condition. Moreover when one uses Windows 8 on desktops AND tablets or other touch devices it makes a hell of a lot more sense and one might begin to appreciate what Microsoft is attempting to do with Windows 8.

You are missing my point. I think I will like the Metro UI for touch screen devices. I do not like it on a desk top PC. A desk top is NOT a tablet. I do not care if the tablet market is growing faster than the already saturated PC/laptop market. If you want to put out a desk top OS, it should prolly come with a desk top GUI. I mentioned in another post how some of my issues could be fixed, I will list a few of them and a few more.

No forced full screen, if it can not be run in a window, it is broken.
Put buttons where you currently have hover and wait areas. derp
Allow for us to easily close metro apps without KB short cuts.
Safe mode, safe mode, safe mode. I know we do not use all that much, but an easy way to get into it without the hoops would be nice.
While it is easy enough to create a BS live account, I don't really care for the, "have to have a live account" feeling this OS leaves me with.
Oh, yeah, can I have a fricken start menu please.

They can make metro better for the PC, but I doubt they will.

 

[Numan]

Microsoft really is focusing on what seems to be the needs, wants and desires of a LOT of different groups and interests. When that happens there's always going to be unhappy people, and the unhappy people are the ones that want Windows to stay a "pure" desktop OS. Ain't gonna happen.

And to this was why I was moaning before the weekend; if you use your PC like myself (with lots of Steam/Origin) you will be staring at that betafish the entire time unless you're starting a program off the Start menu...and most of my stuff is pinned to the taskbar that I normally use constantly.

Also you can squish solitaire on the side and stare at your desktop/browser like Firefox or Chrome.

 

[daglesj]

The problem is some folks are seeing this as the cure all for the content sucking touch/tablet generation and not wanting to understand why the other 90% that don't need it for their desktop/day to day stuff like trudging through spreadsheets and creating soul sucking powerpoint presentations etc.

I can see why Metro is a step forward for touch/tablets on Windows but for those of us that don't use it it's like having a mangle welded onto the hood of your new car.

 

[Numan]

but for those of us that don't use it it's like having a mangle welded onto the hood of your new car.

*points to above comment*

You don't even see it unless you load something off the Start menu, and then it's gone. I actually need to change the betafish I'm already getting sick of seeing it!

 

[daglesj]

Yeah you don't see the mangle till you get out of the car then you think "oh damn is that still there?!"

 

[twwabw]

I'll chime in. IMO, it is pathetic. I support business clients, period. No home users that only web surf and check Hotmail. Business clients that use AutoCAD, Adobe CS, other business apps. This juvenile Metro interface brings Zero to the party. Nada. They use desktops, not tablets. They won't be running Bentley or Revit on a tablet any time soon.

I have no issues if MS wants to incorporate some cutesy new intferface, as an option. Or, conversely as long as theere is the option for the same interface they always had. You can't say "but it has the same old desktop"- no it isn't- no start button, no lists of programs, none of the things people are used to seeing. This costs productivity, and in business- that = money. This is not an intuitive interface. I installed MS Office on it, and have had about 6 people log onto it, and I told them "try to find MS Word. Not one single person could. And the "Programs" menu that displays every single executable on the computer is a joke.

To me, it's case of MS deciding what we're going to have, whether we like it or not. Bad strategy. This may be the greatest interface in the planet for touch screens, but business, for the forseeable future, does not use touchscreens for work. Go ahead and offer this mode, but at least give the option for a classic Windows 7 start menu for those who want it- aka: the customer. The one paying you.

I always thought it was great how WordPerfect has always maintained the old 5.1 mode in their new releases. For those who don't understand why, you've never been to an attorney's office where the secetary has been there for 20 years, still has her old WordPerfect template on the keyboard. She can type faster than you can think, and forcing her to learn a new interface when she doesn't want to brings nothing to the party. All the mfg. should be concerned with is they bought and paid for a new license on their new PC- if they want it to look like it did "way back when"- fine. Who cares? The customer is happy, and the mfg. is happy- they sold a new license. Win win.

New is not a bad thing. But cramming new down someone's throat is a bad things. I hope MS re-thinks this strategy before release and offers the old start menu as an option. 3rd party vendors already have, so it's not like it can't be done.

 

[Numan]

I'll chime in. IMO, it is pathetic. I support business clients, period. No home users that only web surf and check Hotmail. Business clients that use AutoCAD, Adobe CS, other business apps. This juvenile Metro interface brings Zero to the party. Nada. They use desktops, not tablets. They won't be running Bentley or Revit on a tablet any time soon.

When I launch AutoCAD 2010 from the Start screen it loads up AutoCAD 2010 in the desktop as it would normally load in 2K/XP/Vista/Win7. What's the issue? Also if it's so appalling then just keep Win7?

I just wished more people would try it before making FUD. Most have seen the pastely setup and menu screens and are determined to hate it. Very simular to Vista all over, as coworkers that barely know how to navigate XP tell me how bad Vista was, eventually revealing that, "Fred said it was bad and Fred knows computers" as their reasoning. Oh well.

 

[daglesj]

I never had much of an issue with Vista really. I quite liked it. Running on decent hardware it was a decent upgrade over XP. Okay it could have done with another 3-4 months of polish before release but it wasn't that bad. I remember XP being quite bad in places on release.

The only time Vista was odd was running it with less than 2GB of ram and the odd times that it constantly churns the HDD on laptops for no apparent reason.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I'll chime in. IMO, it is pathetic. I support business clients, period. No home users that only web surf and check Hotmail. Business clients that use AutoCAD, Adobe CS, other business apps. This juvenile Metro interface brings Zero to the party. Nada. They use desktops, not tablets. They won't be running Bentley or Revit on a tablet any time soon.

I have no issues if MS wants to incorporate some cutesy new intferface, as an option. Or, conversely as long as theere is the option for the same interface they always had. You can't say "but it has the same old desktop"- no it isn't- no start button, no lists of programs, none of the things people are used to seeing. This costs productivity, and in business- that = money. This is not an intuitive interface. I installed MS Office on it, and have had about 6 people log onto it, and I told them "try to find MS Word. Not one single person could. And the "Programs" menu that displays every single executable on the computer is a joke.

To me, it's case of MS deciding what we're going to have, whether we like it or not. Bad strategy. This may be the greatest interface in the planet for touch screens, but business, for the forseeable future, does not use touchscreens for work. Go ahead and offer this mode, but at least give the option for a classic Windows 7 start menu for those who want it- aka: the customer. The one paying you.

I always thought it was great how WordPerfect has always maintained the old 5.1 mode in their new releases. For those who don't understand why, you've never been to an attorney's office where the secetary has been there for 20 years, still has her old WordPerfect template on the keyboard. She can type faster than you can think, and forcing her to learn a new interface when she doesn't want to brings nothing to the party. All the mfg. should be concerned with is they bought and paid for a new license on their new PC- if they want it to look like it did "way back when"- fine. Who cares? The customer is happy, and the mfg. is happy- they sold a new license. Win win.

New is not a bad thing. But cramming new down someone's throat is a bad things. I hope MS re-thinks this strategy before release and offers the old start menu as an option. 3rd party vendors already have, so it's not like it can't be done.

An outstanding example of someone who actually understands and gets it

 

[bigdogchris]

Moreover when one uses Windows 8 on desktops AND tablets or other touch devices it makes a hell of a lot more sense and one might begin to appreciate what Microsoft is attempting to do with Windows 8.

Right now tablets, phones and desktops all have different OSes and we're getting along just fine. No one in my environment is clamoring that "I wish these were the same". It's nice using something different once in a while.

You forget that a lot of the reason people use gadgets (phone/tablet/etc) is that it is an escape from your work computer. It's new and fun. Once it's a work computer again it stops being fun and the novelty is going to wear off.

Think outside the box friend.

 

[XOR != OR]

Right now tablets, phones and desktops all have different OSes and we're getting along just fine. No one in my environment is clamoring that "I wish these were the same". It's nice using something different once in a while.

You forget that a lot of the reason people use gadgets (phone/tablet/etc) is that it is an escape from your work computer. It's new and fun. Once it's a work computer again it stops being fun and the novelty is going to wear off.

Think outside the box friend.

More importantly, the usage profile for each device is different, so trying to ram the same interface on them is going to cause issues. When I'm using a tablet, or a phone, it's for a specific purpose ( game, email, facebook, ect.. ). When I'm using a workstation, I usually have many different tasks going on...which the metro interface interferes with.

 

[XOR != OR]

An outstanding example of someone who actually understands and gets it

Indeed, it's very similar to what I've been saying for years. I completely agree with it. MS is horribly disconnected with the average business, and it shows every time they force an interface change.

They've gotten away with it in the past because they've been the only game in town, but that's not always going to be the case.