This view is just ugly!
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This is the important part.... Windows 8 doesn't just need to cater to the average user. It needs to cater to all users. The person that only surfs, the people like me that have 3+ monitors managing 100's of VM's Thousands of scheduled jobs, Domino Servers, etc, and everyone between.
Whether or not you "understand it" is irrelevant. If you enjoy an interface of giant tiles like the idiot boxes they give fast food workers to place your drive-thru order, that's great! But plenty of other people appreciate the compact, hierarchical Start Menu - it just works, and doesn't rip you out of your workflow with a jarring transition.
And why should the start menu "die" if most people still prefer it on the desktop where it makes sense? By the way, THIS is why the Start Menu *will* come back, and why MS is being dragged into it by the Enterprise segment, kicking and screaming. Adoption of Win8/8.1 has literally stalled while Win7 continues to grow.
Come on you know there is a shortcut Really W8 does what the other OSs did and more. It just needs some adapting. I've found it well worth it, some might be more resistant or it might just really not be for them, but I found most of the gripe unfounded. I'm no die hard M$ fan, but I hate misconceptions more than I hate looking like a fanboi.
Making the start menu available as an option? Is there a reason we are all still talking about this? Just do it, be done with it, and move on to more important stuff already.
Yes, Windows 8 does everything Win7 did and more. I am not debating that in the slightest. I am a windows 8 user on all of my machines. I am talking about the Metro UI/Start Screen vs a Start Menu like in 7 or Start8, classic shell, etc.Come on you know there is a shortcut Really W8 does what the other OSs did and more. It just needs some adapting. I've found it well worth it, some might be more resistant or it might just really not be for them, but I found most of the gripe unfounded. I'm no die hard M$ fan, but I hate misconceptions more than I hate looking like a fanboi.
Whether or not you "understand it" is irrelevant. If you enjoy an interface of giant tiles like the idiot boxes they give fast food workers to place your drive-thru order, that's great! But plenty of other people appreciate the compact, hierarchical Start Menu - it just works, and doesn't rip you out of your workflow with a jarring transition.
And why should the start menu "die" if most people still prefer it on the desktop where it makes sense? By the way, THIS is why the Start Menu *will* come back, and why MS is being dragged into it by the Enterprise segment, kicking and screaming. Adoption of Win8/8.1 has literally stalled while Win7 continues to grow.
It offers a considerable benefit. It offers a consistent interface between devices. While you may see no value in that, it's something Microsoft must have to survive into the future. Microsoft's current market is shrinking while the tablet and phone markets are growing quickly. They simply can't afford to not change.
Why does being a full screen menu make it less useful. A menu is something that pops up so you can select something, then goes away. Do you really need to see the rest of the screen when selecting a new app to run?
For my purposes the start screen is mostly just different. I think it is possibly better on a system with a ton of apps. It's main drawback is that it's now what I was used to.
Fair enough, there is a short cut, but I honestly don't use short cuts much. So I don't think of using them. But, It is still quicker to hit the windows key and start typing than hitting Windows + C, mouse to search icon and click, and then start typing. And if you are on a Win8 machine vs 8.1, you still go full screen. It's still an uglier way to accomplish the task.
I agree that sort of widespread catering would be nice. But what are your thoughts on the priority levels based on percentages? First off, What percentage of users are like us with Multi-monitors, managing VM's. and have 50-100 programs they use every day? I would peg that percentage at around 10%. Should MS focus such efforts and money towards such a small part of their user base? No OS is perfect for every user but you want to accommodate as much as is practically possible.
Of course that percentage is debatable and only MS has that data in any statistically accurate form. But assuming it's a very small percentage, how important is that to their total user base?
And who told you Windows 8 is for desktop PCs?
It's clearly for mobile devices even if Microsoft can't publicly admit to abandoning the desktop.
Nobody is shoving anything down your throat, you just think they are because they took the old codebase and leveraged it for the new interface (to run Windows services that would take years to rewrite, proper desktop apps themselves are no longer a selling point in the current market - not even Desktop Office).
Your argument is complete bullshit, always has been.
Windows 7 and Linux are right there in front of you to use on traditional desktops.
Windows 8 is for a different kind of machine and a different kind of user.
The start menu must die because it isn't flexible enough to work on a variety of systems. It has been a failure on mobile devices. If Microsoft can't offer a reasonably consistent and usable interface across different platforms, they will sooner or later lose out to someone who does.
Their market is shrinking. Their dominance is fading. The HAVE to change.
There is a direct search shortcut. I'm telling you, outside of some more precise server applications where the slight shift in architecture has caused some problems which may or not have since been resolved, it does pretty much everything it did and more, but in a slightly different way as it is moving to a unified cross-platform interface that should prove useful in the future. I think people don't really see it because we simply arent there yet. But it has to start somewhere. It should have started with options, I agree, but the change is not as bad as people make it out to be.
The other problem with Win 8, is having a browser some businesses, or government organizations can't use for 90% of the applications that were coded with IE8 or 9 in mind, IE 10 and 11 break them.
What is that direct search shortcut. The only one I know is the win key and start typing, which brings up the entire start screen.
I don't understand people's love of the Start Menu. If you install a lot of stuff it gets to be too long. It's a pain to expand down multiple folders.
The start button in 8.1 with the convenient features in the right click is considerably better than the Win 7 start button, and having it take you to the start screen seems easier to navigate to me.
I have my Windows 8.1 system boot right to the desktop. You can put shortcuts to your most commonly used apps on the desktop or pin them to the task bar. The start screen works well for the rest.
Let the start menu die the death it deserves.
The start screen can carry over well between phones, tablets, and PCs.
Win F does bring up the search windows, but on Win8 it still goes full screen, on 8.1 it doesn't go full screen, but only searches files. So there it's still not as easy as win key and typing. Plus, it's not exactly intuitive, is it?
Well there is a seprate shortcut for apps and another settings search. Most windows acquired better functionality after a few patches, or better yet a service pack. I've seen worst launches. If we're up to picking at polish it might not be THAT nad.
Here's the fun part. MS went out of their way to remove the start menu. The code to do everything people have asked for is already in the software. All it would take to appease all users is to have an option for a Metro-centric interface, or an Aero-Centric interface.
And if Windows 8 and the metroUI were targeted purely at a consumer with a touch device, then it wouldn't need to cater to users like me. But MS has made the choice to push the Metro UI on all users and even Servers in Server 2012.
MS wants 8 in the corporate environment as much as it wants it in the consumer world. If it insists on this, they need to cater to all types of users. The Simple and complex alike.
Dear Microsoft,
Bring back a CLI-only OS and sell the GUI as an additional piece of software. Thanks!
Signed
CreepyUncleSpyingOnURDatazGoogle
Anyway, Windows 8 doesn't do it for me. Even if the old Start button is finally restored, Metro will have to go away also, or at least the resolution requirement. It doesn't work efficiently at 1024x600. At least Linux does anyhow.
The funny thing is, MS does have a CLI only version of the windows OS available!
Here's the fun part. MS went out of their way to remove the start menu. The code to do everything people have asked for is already in the software. All it would take to appease all users is to have an option for a Metro-centric interface, or an Aero-Centric interface.
And if Windows 8 and the metroUI were targeted purely at a consumer with a touch device, then it wouldn't need to cater to users like me. But MS has made the choice to push the Metro UI on all users and even Servers in Server 2012.
MS wants 8 in the corporate environment as much as it wants it in the consumer world. If it insists on this, they need to cater to all types of users. The Simple and complex alike.
I thought Server Core had a desktop background with a command line window. That doesn't count, does it?
Metro will never be adopted at an appreciable level in the corporate world. I think MS is finally coming to terms with this.I don't think they went out their to remove it as much as they built the OS from the ground up to NOT have one in the first place. But you make some good points on their corporate pushing. But I doubt it's as big an issue because Corporations are notoriously slow in adopting. So Win7 should be fine for the next 5 years for them. If Win8 is not ready, just use Win7. Everyone's problem is fixed. I do think some real changes should be made on the enterprise level for it.
Try going to best buy, or most other sources to buy a new Laptop or Desktop without Windows 8. They aren't forcing anyone to upgrade existing installations, but they are certainly making it tough for people to buy new systems without it.Now, I'm not referring to you specifically but I don't see how people keep saying that XXX software is being forced down their throats when I don't remember anyone coming to my house demanding I drop everything, buy, and install an OS I am not ready to use yet.
It's close enough for me! Though I grant you, it's not a CLI meant to be used as anything other a server. It's definitely not a user's system.
I just chuckle at all the people who defend the new start screen as if it's not just a huge start menu that eats your whole display. "The old start menu was obsolete and useless, here have a giant one that's poorly organized and an assault on your visual senses instead!"
It makes me question whether or not they actually support users at all, or they just armchair admin from their mom's basement.
I don't think they went out their to remove it as much as they built the OS from the ground up to NOT have one in the first place.
I don't think they went out their to remove it as much as they built the OS from the ground up to NOT have one in the first place.
I do think some real changes should be made on the enterprise level for it.
Metro will never be adopted at an appreciable level in the corporate world. I think MS is finally coming to terms with this.
so Microsoft has finally caved in?...I'm shocked...only took them 2 releases of windows 8 to finally listen...I'm willing to buy 8.2 is the Start Menu returns...W8 has a lot of under the hood improvements (like Vista did) but most tech saavy consumers wouldn't bite because of the Start menu issue
Adoption rates of 8.x in one tech savvy group, gamers, seems to be much higher than the general population if the Steam surveys are accurate.
I for one really hope they do include the option for the start menu, basically so people can shut the hell up about it. I don't really care about metro one way or the other, but I've always hated the classic start menu and believed it should be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately if not sooner.
IMO, I would like to see an OS with fully customizable GUI out of the box with no third party intervention (rainmeter, skins, etc) and then safe mode can be the default appearance to assist with troubleshooting. I can't think of any real reason why they couldn't do it, and I would be perfectly willing to pay for it.
Just think of the fun supporting a business where every department/user has a different customized GUI. {shuddder}
I would say learn to code to better WC3 standards.....so it works across most any browser.. most of our entire back end is web based and some of it is ancient code and yet it still runs fine on IE 10 and 11 now that i have 8.1 back at work.