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Maybe spend some time with Grandmother instead?
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Windows 8.2 Will Make Start Menu An Option?
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Given that I have know people that have fought ever single change to the start menu through the years and refused using it as long as possible, I see nothing wrong myself with a "classic" mode to put the start menu back in. But then again I also don't see an issue with Metro. I do agree that installing 3rd party apps instead of it being changed at the OS level is rather stupid for an answer. I also know that I must use my computer in a completely different manor that most people here as since the developers preview of windows 8, I have been on a windows 8 (now 8.1) computer for 16+ hours a day, for most days out of the week. And during this time I almost never see the start screen unless there is a Metro app that i want to run, just like with older versions I almost never saw the start menu. I find actually having to hunt and search for a program to be a waste of time. I use my task bar to pin most of the programs I run through a normal week. For the few that I don't want to pin or do use as often, I launch from the easy method of pressing the windows key, starting to their name out and press enter. Windows key - e - x -c - enter = excel opens, windows key - w - o - enter and word opens, windows key - f - i - enter = firefox opens. windows key - n - o = list that has notepad and notepad++ as the top of options so enter to launch notepad, down and enter to launch notepad++. Depending on my OS I am on, I only expect to see the start menu/screen for a few seconds a day unless again I want to use a metro app then I expect to see it a little longer. Looking at how my 7 and 8 yr old nephews use computers, they pin things to the task bar and use desktop shortcuts. They rarely use the start menu.
As for your fear about poor old grandma, While I know all experience will vary this has been the experience that I have observed. I know people that with no training were able to use it just fine based off previous experience with windows, some of which are not the brightest when it comes to using computers. I really can't think of anyone that couldn't figure out how to use it. Now there very well might be things they don't full know about the OS. But for their basic use of the OS for the average person, I haven't heard anyone that I know say that they or their family members just can't figure it out at all. One woman at work her husband doesn't even know what the Internet is. She had to rename firefox to Yahoo and set it to the page that he normally wants to go to as if she says internet it confuses him, but she has to tell him to go to Yahoo and he understands what she means then. And she got a windows 8 based laptop and he is using it just fine. So personally, while I know people that don't really care for Metro, I don't know of any that Metro has caused them to not be able to use their computer anymore. Even with shutdown hiding as most people have laptops and just press the power button to hibernate.
My mom who is 76 loves Windows 8, so does my grandma, especially metro. They love that the apps and programs they use the most can be placed with graphics that they can easily identify and go straight to.
I have the exact opposite experience. Especially with older people. I've set up several new laptops for friends and family since Black Friday and its unanimous. They don't like Metro and just want the desktop back. Takes three time the configuring to get it set up, acceptable and usable for them. I don't even try to explain to them why MS did what they did with Windows 8 anymore. And I'm very leery of people saying they set it up for gramps/grandma and they love it. The only way I can see that happening is if they've never used a previous version of windows before. I'm not saying people are lying but its doesn't add up in my experience.
heatlesssun
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There are people that like the new UI and there are those that don't. I have a number of in-laws on Windows 8 and they don't seem to have any problems with it. My sister-in-law works for a big regional bank and they've started to role out 8 there which was no big deal to her because see got a 8 touch screen laptop last year and she likes it. She's a big iPad user so touch screens are cool to her.
It boils down to personality and ability and willingness to adjust and a little investment in time and if you have someone with the right attitude to help you show the ropes that a big plus. Of course, why go through any of these things, just offer the same old same old. It's a fair question but I think that Windows 8 opponents look at it too cynically and only in the context of desktops and keyboards and mice and tend to ignore the whole shrinking new PC market. Windows needs to be more than a desktop OS, but Microsoft should have done a better job at making 8 more comfortable to classic desktop and keyboard and mouse only users.
It boils down to personality and ability and willingness to adjust and a little investment in time and if you have someone with the right attitude to help you show the ropes that a big plus. Of course, why go through any of these things, just offer the same old same old. It's a fair question but I think that Windows 8 opponents look at it too cynically and only in the context of desktops and keyboards and mice and tend to ignore the whole shrinking new PC market. Windows needs to be more than a desktop OS, but Microsoft should have done a better job at making 8 more comfortable to classic desktop and keyboard and mouse only users.
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Stop with the "needs to be more then a desktop OS" bullshit, Win8 is a desktop OS, why the hell would anyone say that a desktop OS needs to be more then a desktop OS???
The only part of Win8 I have seen people hate is metro, metro fucking sucks, everything else is fine, kind of hard to say people are being cynical about Win8 when there is only one aspect being hated on.
heatlesssun
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Not sure what you're trying to say here considering that Windows on a lot of devices these days that aren't desktop or laptops. You could put Windows 7 on a small screen device, it has been done before, but those devices were often criticized for only have a desktop UI that wasn't well suited for the device. My guess is that the vast majority of people that have purchased one of these 8" Windows tablets wouldn't won't to run Windows 7 on it. They want the desktop, but they also want something that works well on a small tablet. Thus the point of Windows 8 being more than just a desktop OS and that being important to the future of Windows.
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Windows 8 is a hybrid OS which means it can do more than desktops.
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How is it not OK to have a desktop interface on a tablet, yet it is OK to have a tablet interface on a desktop? You guys make no fucking sense, saying that Microsoft has to do something for there survival is bullshit.
There is absolutely no reason MS couldn't have kept the desktop oriented interface and just had their tablets and operating system sync.
At this point the argument is stupid, MS looking at adding a start menu shows that those of you willing to fall on your knees for MS are wrong about Win8's UI. There wouldn't even be rumors of a start menu being added is Win8 was the end all be all you keep trying make it out to be.
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Crap man, have you even read what heatlesssun, I and others have said before? Just go to Linux already, please.
I don't see how keeping a fully functional start menu would have made Windows 8 any less of "more than a desktop OS".
Giving Windows a tablet interface pasted on top of a desktop interface wasn't going to magically make people run out and buy windows hybrid devices or windows tablets or windows phones or get people to buy all those different devices to have integration That seems to be what MS was thinking when they forced out the start menu and forced in the start screen.
Saying "Windows needs to be more than a desktop OS" means nothing to people who only have a Windows desktop and have no intention of buying other Windows devices and/or people who prefer to have different interfaces on different devices.
I like that my phone has a different interface to my PC and if I had a tablet I'd be happy for it to have a different interface than my desktop. If Windows "needs" to be more than a desktop OS, I'd be happier to have Windows home edition, Windows tablet edition and Windows phone edition.
heatlesssun
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We make no sense yet there are devices like the Surface Pro or Toshiba Encore that expose both a touch and desktop UI simultaneously. There are those that say that Windows RT is a failure because it can't run user installed desktop apps but go to Amazon and look at the user reviews of the Dell Venue 8 Pro and many like the device because it isn't just a touch tablet and can run desktop apps but at the same time is a touch and pen enabled tablet.
I'm running Visual Studio 2013 on my 8" Venue 8 Pro connected to an external 1080P
display. Pretty desktop oriented and not something that can be synched.
I've never said that Microsoft didn't need to address keyboard and mouse usability, been saying that from day one. Bat what I've also said from day one is that new hardware and tablets and touch are critical to the future success of Windows. The growth of the new conventional PC is done at least in the consumer world. Start Menu back in Windows? Great. Need a tablet for my mom.
My personality and willingness to adjust has nothing to do with my time invested. It's other people's time I refuse to waste anymore trying to get them used to a tacked on tablet UI with non touch laptops/desktops. They'd rather deal with only one, which is the desktop UI. This is not me talking but almost everyone I know and set up with Win 8. It's not my job to change people's attitude's especially since I can't explain the reasons for forcing the UI changes on non touch devices....I think MS needs to think long and hard if they want to continue down this path without substantial concessions.
heatlesssun
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I've never said this.
The new UI pasted on top, it's side by side overall. I understand that there is broad dislike of the new UI be keyboard and mouse users where the Start Screen is the only in the box option. But app launchers aren't where much gets done. I get cussed at and called a Microsoft apologist all of the time yet from day one I've made the point that I get the issues with modern UI for keyboard and mouse users and specifically pointed to things like the full screen start menu. Again, my point has been you can add 1000 Start Menus, and that won't magically make people run out and get Windows 8 machines or upgrade.
And I've said an gazillion times that Windows 8 doesn't bring much to keyboard and mouse and desktop only users. I do think there is a market of Windows users how would happy to be able to by a 13 ounce device that can run their desktop software and it function just like always when using a mouse and keyboard and to take the same device and use it like an iPad Mini of Nexus 7.
And some like to be able to leverage their investments not needing multiple devices. What's so bad about having on cheap device that can work well as both a tablet and/or laptop and/or desktop?
That's a lot of words to say "you don't spend much time in the app launcher".
And I've never said the start screen needs to be removed, simply that the option be given to use it or keep the traditional start menu (which was an option in early builds of W8). If you want to be able to have the same interface on your laptop as your desktop, sure, go for it, but don't piss everyone else off by removing the interface they want (the start menu).
I never said there was anything bad, don't put words in my mouth. If you have a hybrid device, sure, have a touch UI for when you're using it as a tablet and a desktop UI for when you come home and plug it in to a larger monitor with a KB+M.... but don't sacrifice your desktop UI to do some hybrid UI that everyone has to deal with regardless of whether they have a hybrid device or not. Hell, I'd argue even for a hybrid device the start screen isn't the best solution.
CreepyUncleGoogle
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I heard that hybrid device seeds don't grow the same hybrid breed the next season if you save them and plant them in your garden the following year.
Anyway, they're going to bring back the start menu in the new version. I don't see why that's so upsetting to people. I'm happy to see them bring it back and learn some of their lesson over jumping too quickly into the tablet and touch fad. They need the sales to get money back from the cost of development so they're going to have to change in order to sell the OS to OEMs so the OEMs can sell their devices to the public.
Anyway, they're going to bring back the start menu in the new version. I don't see why that's so upsetting to people. I'm happy to see them bring it back and learn some of their lesson over jumping too quickly into the tablet and touch fad. They need the sales to get money back from the cost of development so they're going to have to change in order to sell the OS to OEMs so the OEMs can sell their devices to the public.
heatlesssun
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As I've said plenty of times, the modern UI doses need improvements to make it more friendly to classic desktop only users. But the hybrid approach that in Windows allows for the use of touch, keyboards, mice and pens and desktop and modern interchangeably and simultaneously, it's not about being just a desktop and keyboards and or a tablet and touch but all of these things being always available.
Regardless of the mistakes that Microsoft has made with Windows 8 the nature of computing devices has changed radically since the release of Windows 7. The new conventional PC market is mature and while the PC is no where near dying there are simply more choices now where there used to only be conventional PCs. Tablets are evolving and will certainly become more powerful and capable of doing productive things. Apple made a big slash about iWork coming free with new devices. That's clearly about positioning these devices to be more than consumption tools.