Windows 10 Tech Preview is available

Status
Not open for further replies.
MrCrispy said:
I submitted feedback about adding a true dark theme, bringing back full customization of colors, per monitor dpi scaling (I thought Windows 8.1 did this already but I guess not).
Click to expand...

Per monitor scaling is in 8.1 and the scaling dialog is still the same in 10. However scaling is supposed to be significantly improved in 10 and maybe the 8.1 code isn't really there anymore, just the UI parts and the 10 scaling code isn't there yet.

MrCrispy said:
My main pc was backed up, reformatted and I did a clean install of Win 10, its the only way to go :D The first thing it did was download a 650MB update, so much for not needing huge updates :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't want to risk any important device so I've got it installed on devices I never use regularly. I will use those devices as much as possible. Right now everything is pretty stable but there are a number of glitches, nothing show stopping that I've seen right now.

However, I don't recommend putting this on a tablet right now. Virtually all of the modern I navigation and control has been stripped out, no top and bottom edge swipes, swiping from the left brings up the task view which isn't nearly as elegant for touch as the current model. In essence, 10 at this is state if a desktop only OS with the ability to run tablet apps in a desktop window. It's kind of like using 7 on a tablet, with so notable differences.

One thing that is interesting is that the Start Menu is tablet aware, tapping on the search box will automatically bring up the touch keyboard and move the Start Menu results on top. That's actually pretty cool and dramatically makes the Start Menu much more touch friendly. Seems like there are a few other things tweaks, like more spacing on the task try icons, it seems a bit easier to resize windows.
 
I installed windows 10 on my tablet as well. I like the new task view when swiping left but it is slower than before where swiping left would switch apps.

I hate that modern IE was removed. I tried the powershell script way to bring it back but it doesn't work well for me. Crashes often, can't open new tabs and can't type anything. The desktop IE isn't easy to use on a tablet when the keyboard doesn't automatically pop up.
 
I suspect they'll bring back the Modern version at some point. And hopefully the two versions will actually be able to share an occasional piece of data.
 
wonderfield said:
I suspect they'll bring back the Modern version at some point. And hopefully the two versions will actually be able to share an occasional piece of data.
Click to expand...

Not sure what exactly you mean. In 8.1 they can share a lot, history, favorites, cookies, etc.
 
I'd like to change my previous statement, ie modern works really well, but only when in full screen mode. When not in full screen the keyboard doesn't auto pop up.
 
smelly said:
When not in full screen the keyboard doesn't auto pop up.
Click to expand...

I snap IE modern all of the time on tablets and there's no issue with the keyboard coming up in snapped views. Desktop apps used to have auto keyboard popup behavior prior to 8, that's no longer the case, apps much specially engage auto popup behavior in desktop apps in 8. IE desktop doesn't.
 
Megalith said:
DId they seriously get rid of window borders?
Click to expand...

Practically, there's like a 1px outline on them in the 10 TP. They have added some shadowing. Looks a bit crude in this build but I think it does a lot to help with depth.
 
heatlesssun said:
I snap IE modern all of the time on tablets and there's no issue with the keyboard coming up in snapped views. Desktop apps used to have auto keyboard popup behavior prior to 8, that's no longer the case, apps much specially engage auto popup behavior in desktop apps in 8. IE desktop doesn't.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about ie modern on windows 10. Keyboard doesn't auto pop up unless I click the 3 dots and select full screen.

Edit: I just tried the mail app and its the same situation. Full screen, keyboard auto pops up, any other view, it won't. I'm guessing it applies to all metro apps.
 
Last edited:
just replying here so I will remember to DL this when i get home
 
Did they fix that ugly font rendering introduced in Windows 8?
 
Terpfen said:
The start menu so far just is a list of the Windows 8 start screen apps. You need to manually go in and add links to the Control Panel, This PC/My Computer, etc.
Click to expand...

WTF? Seriously? If they ship it defaulted that way, I won't know whether to laugh or cry.
 
smelly said:
I'm talking about ie modern on windows 10. Keyboard doesn't auto pop up unless I click the 3 dots and select full screen.

Edit: I just tried the mail app and its the same situation. Full screen, keyboard auto pops up, any other view, it won't. I'm guessing it applies to all metro apps.
Click to expand...

Correct. There is no modern version of IE in this build. I've noted in another thread this behavior with the keyboard I believe along with other tablet behavior. Most of the modern navigation and control in 8 are not in this build. It looks like all that's being redone and that we'll need for the Continuum stuff to come online. Everything right now in on the desktop, even modern apps and behave like desktop apps.
 
DPI said:
WTF? Seriously? If they ship it defaulted that way, I won't know whether to laugh or cry.
Click to expand...

There are options to pin things like the Control Panel, Documents, etc. to the right of the Start Menu and the power user menu is still a right click on the Start Button.
 
DPI said:
WTF? Seriously? If they ship it defaulted that way, I won't know whether to laugh or cry.
Click to expand...

This is alpha software intended for people who know what they're doing, not final shipping software. Huge difference.

Chill on the "this better not ship like that!" stuff.
 
Terpfen said:
This is alpha software intended for people who know what they're doing, not final shipping software. Huge difference.

Chill on the "this better not ship like that!" stuff.
Click to expand...

If what Microsoft has said about this Start Menu is true, it's been in usability testing with motion studies for since early this year and has been well received. From what I've seen this far it blogs, forums and social media, I tend to believe them. There's nothing brilliant about it, the basic idea has been floating around for years. But it's a simple and straightforward way to bridge the old and the new without really any disruption to the old. And interestingly this Start Menu actually works well with touch even though most of the nice touch navigation and control stuff in 8 has ripped from this build.

It's a pretty damned powerful app launcher and search mechanism that's actually both touch capable and very desktop friendly. I would like to see something like the ability to pin conventional static icon and text links, some kind of folder system perhaps like Windows Phone 8.1 and more aesthetic configurability. The basics are there but it does need some work which I'd have to imagine that Microsoft has heard more than could ever be dealt with in a lifetime of a 1000 developers by now.
 
heatlesssun said:
Correct. There is no modern version of IE in this build. I've noted in another thread this behavior with the keyboard I believe along with other tablet behavior. Most of the modern navigation and control in 8 are not in this build. It looks like all that's being redone and that we'll need for the Continuum stuff to come online. Everything right now in on the desktop, even modern apps and behave like desktop apps.
Click to expand...

There is a modern IE in the build.

http://www.neowin.net/news/miss-modern-ie-in-windows-10-here-is-how-to-get-it-back

http://www.wpcentral.com/heres-how-get-modern-version-ie-running-windows-10-technical-preview

As long as the metro app (I've only tried IE and mail, but i'm assuming it applies to all) is in full-screen mode, the keyboard opens automatically. I'm sure it is something they will eventually fix, along with adding a quick way to get out of full screen mode. I currently swipe left to bring up task view and that takes the app out of fullscreen mode.
 
heatlesssun said:
If what Microsoft has said about this Start Menu is true, it's been in usability testing with motion studies…
Click to expand...

You know, for all the focus group testing and studies Microsoft performs, you'd think they would be able to come up with a UI people actually like.

It's almost as if their lack of internal conviction about design shows through in their over-reliance on focus group feedback of alpha software…
 
Ive been using it on my main desktop for gaming and browsing and haven't been having any issues.
 
smelly said:
There is a modern IE in the build.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! Sorry if you think I was being confrontational, everything you've said about touch is in exactly in line with what I've seen thus far. Obviously this is not how it's going to end up.
 
Seems to me that Microsoft should be able to find a reasonable way to fully unify IE across Modern and desktop contexts now that windowed Modern apps are supported. IE Modern is quirky on the desktop to the say the least, but it does actually elevate web browsing in some ways too with its chromeless approach (I sometimes like using it on the desktop). IE's desktop UI could certainly use a refresh anyway.

The Continuum idea is doable with the right approach, but I think IE's going to be the long pole in the tent. I don't expect them to get that right in the first round.
 
Terpfen said:
You know, for all the focus group testing and studies Microsoft performs, you'd think they would be able to come up with a UI people actually like.
Click to expand...

But they did and it's called a Start Menu. Has there ever been a single greater complaint in the change of any UI to an OS ever?

Terpfen said:
It's almost as if their lack of internal conviction about design shows through in their over-reliance on focus group feedback of alpha software…
Click to expand...

Or, viewed another way, their need to take chances. As much as we like to debate it and talk about this thing or that thing, the desktop war has been over for many years now. Perhaps the single biggest failure of Windows 8 has been in enterprise adoption. So enterprises all just switched to Macs, Linux PCs and Chromebooks. Or did they all just switch to 7.

Microsoft gets is right much more than wrong generally. They do make huge mistakes. But they also know how to take some smart risks. Windows 8 was a disaster but a smart risk. Hybrid devices are eventually going to become part of the computing universe, it's simply a matter of when. It's just simple economics. But an app on my phone, why not be able to use it on any other device where it makes sense?
 
wonderfield said:
The Continuum idea is doable with the right approach, but I think IE's going to be the long pole in the tent. I don't expect them to get that right in the first round.
Click to expand...

This wouldn't be the first time around though. The main issues revolve around security and plug-ins. The current IE 11 in a window with a more traditional desktop UI would be fine for most but it is tricky at best to handle plug-ins and extensions from desktop browsers in sandboxed touch browsers. Microsoft did come up with a decent solution on the touch side with allowing Flash in the modern browser. I know you're not a fan of Flash but allowing that one add-in to work with a touch browser easily makes IE modern a very useful touch browser that's not always in need of an app.
 
Armenius said:
I don't understand it... Hasn't 64-bit processing been ubiquitous for a long enough period of time that we don't need a 32-bit version anymore? It just confuses the old people...
Click to expand...

Not all virtualized environments have upgraded to hardware that's Virtualization-extension aware. So client devices on a 64-bit platform can still be limited to 32-bit.

My dev workstation, which is (YES) due for replacement, is one such host. C2Q 8300.
 
drescherjm said:
That CPU is x64 compatible although the bios may not support x64.
Click to expand...

The CPU is x64 compatible (for host OSes).
It doesn't have the virtualization extensions to allow it to run x64 client OSes though.

C2Q-NoVTX.png
 
On top of the # of cores and ram limitations would you even be running virtualization on such a slow system?
 
Terpfen said:
This is alpha software intended for people who know what they're doing, not final shipping software. Huge difference.

Chill on the "this better not ship like that!" stuff.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Please submit feedback regarding this issue. The more they get, the more likely they'll change that.
 
The monitor scaling code sucks. It was bad in 8.1 as well. I have 2 monitors - 1080p and 1440p (which is a new one I just purchased). All I want to do is increase text size on the 1440p monitor to 110%, without affecting the other one, and its not possible.

How hard can it be to implement such a basic feature? If I'm missing how to do it please let me know.
 
MrCrispy said:
The monitor scaling code sucks. It was bad in 8.1 as well. I have 2 monitors - 1080p and 1440p (which is a new one I just purchased). All I want to do is increase text size on the 1440p monitor to 110%, without affecting the other one, and its not possible.

How hard can it be to implement such a basic feature? If I'm missing how to do it please let me know.
Click to expand...

The scaling can't be set per monitor but there is automatic scaling depending on resolution and screen size. The difference in those factors is probably too small to really make a big for the automatic scaling. The scaling is going to change in 10. I'd send feedback on it.

EDIT: There were already 2 votes for per monitor scaling in the feedback and I've voted on it as well.
 
heatlesssun said:
Thanks for the info! Sorry if you think I was being confrontational, everything you've said about touch is in exactly in line with what I've seen thus far. Obviously this is not how it's going to end up.
Click to expand...

No I didn't take it in that manner. At first I was like "wtf is he talking about, maybe my tablet sucks because I can't do anything like he states" Then I realized you maybe you haven't seen that modern IE has a workaround.

I agree that the finished product won't end up with these issues. It seems as if the first iteration of Windows 10 is primarily for desktop users.

On my tablet I have roughly ~3gb more space on my HD than I had before on windows 8.1. Has anyone else seen this or did I just have loads of junk that got deleted on the new install.
 
heatlesssun said:
The scaling can't be set per monitor but there is automatic scaling depending on resolution and screen size. The difference in those factors is probably too small to really make a big for the automatic scaling. The scaling is going to change in 10. I'd send feedback on it.

EDIT: There were already 2 votes for per monitor scaling in the feedback and I've voted on it as well.
Click to expand...

I also submitted feedback for this. What do you mean by automatic scaling? Do you mean its done by the OS automatically? Or is there something I can do to increase text size on one monitor?
 
MrCrispy said:
I also submitted feedback for this. What do you mean by automatic scaling? Do you mean its done by the OS automatically? Or is there something I can do to increase text size on one monitor?
Click to expand...

By default Windows 8.1/10 will scale everything automatically across monitors unless you override and use one scaling level for all monitors.
 
smelly said:
On my tablet I have roughly ~3gb more space on my HD than I had before on windows 8.1. Has anyone else seen this or did I just have loads of junk that got deleted on the new install.
Click to expand...

My money is on loads of junk.
 
wonderfield said:
Has Microsoft previously unified IE Modern and IE desktop?
Click to expand...

Certainly the subject has come up and there were changes from 8.0 RTM to better make the two play nicer together like the sharing of favorites and such. But will there even be a modern browser in Windows 10? I would think that part of Continuum would be to provide APIs to applications so that they can adjust their UI based on input type.

Of course with web browsers there are issues of sandboxing and plug-ins but on x86 at least I could see where Microsoft loosening up a bit on this and allowing plug-ins to exist even on a touch device. My guess is that many Windows tablet users use desktop browsers with touch a lot for the purpose of getting plug-in support, comes in great for things like Amazon Prime Video and using Silverlight as the player, which is a much better experience than using Flash.

I'm just speculating here. But I do think that modern IE being disabled in the 10 TP is something of sign that there's going to be some significant changes regarding the browser situation. There's nothing in this build that blocks modern apps from running except the IE modern browser.
 
drescherjm said:
On top of the # of cores and ram limitations would you even be running virtualization on such a slow system?
Click to expand...

Because it's what I have available. And, as I said, it's a TEST platform. If I can load it here, I can look around and do what was intended. EVALUATE it. Without putting it into a production environment.

And the platform isn't THAT slow. RAM limits? Yeah. As I also said, I'm a bit overdue for an upgrade. That'll probably be taking place on Black Friday.
 
Chas said:
Because it's what I have available. And, as I said, it's a TEST platform. If I can load it here, I can look around and do what was intended. EVALUATE it. Without putting it into a production environment.

And the platform isn't THAT slow. RAM limits? Yeah. As I also said, I'm a bit overdue for an upgrade. That'll probably be taking place on Black Friday.
Click to expand...

Another chump that "Bangs 10s" and buys houses with cash. Ignore the fool. If it works it works.
 
Chas said:
Because it's what I have available. And, as I said, it's a TEST platform. If I can load it here, I can look around and do what was intended. EVALUATE it. Without putting it into a production environment.

And the platform isn't THAT slow. RAM limits? Yeah. As I also said, I'm a bit overdue for an upgrade. That'll probably be taking place on Black Friday.
Click to expand...

That's not the way it works. You need a new PC with quad core and 16 GB of RAM to test a new OS. :D

You use what you have. At least you're testing it. Better than some that don't have the ability to do it.... :) Some people just think everyone should be running a home lab with ESXi servers and clustered Windows Servers...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top