Windows 10 data mining has been caught

Autopia said:
i have no idea what you are talking about, the post had to do with data collecting not listening to phone calls, where did you come up with that?
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When you replied "i'm willing to bet this is a lie.", I assumed you were saying this in response to the last portion of my original post, which quoted Microsoft as stating:

Does Cortana listen to my phone calls?

No.
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I made that assumption because your reply did not make sense when applied to any other portion of my post. It's a little weird that you don't seem to be able to follow your own conversation.
 
[U]ber|Noob;1041807072 said:
Is there a third party automatic software program that can remove all the MS spyware from Windows 7/8 at least?

While I iron any issues with a move to linux for everything except for the occasional game, I just have to test a few win32 programs with wine. Often I help people install new operating systems/ upgrade etc, but I won't be installing any spyware os such as windows 10 on any computer.
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Closest you can get is the reg edit and services disables:
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/63874-REPO-Windows-10-TELEMETRY-REPOSITORY/page47

[U]ber|Noob;1041807705 said:
I'd just forget about windows 10 for 6-8 months, if they haven't cut out all this keylogging/spying stuff by then make the move to linux and recommend that's what everyone that asks me about installing windows 10 should do.
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Just put one of my laptops on Mint Linux and it is going to stay with that, lets see which systems goes next...

evilsofa said:
Then go for it. Prove that Microsoft listens to phone calls. The FBI would be really interested if you can. You know, all that stuff about how wiretapping is illegal?
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Nicholars said:
So is there any effective to way to stop microsoft invading my privacy? Surely it should be illegal? For example if I spy on someone... that would be illegal... but microsoft are allowed to spy on me why? Because they are bigger and have more money the normal rules don't apply?
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read the new EULA? It is getting pretty dam close, if your using Skype for example on either end..

http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/63733-PLEASE-READ-Microsoft-and-Privacy

Originally Posted by Microsoft
Microsoft collects data to operate effectively and provide you the best experiences with our services. You provide some of this data directly, such as when you create a Microsoft account, submit a search query to Bing, speak a voice command to Cortana, upload a document to OneDrive, or contact us for support. We get some of it by recording how you interact with our services by, for example, using technologies like cookies, and receiving error reports or usage data from software running on your device.
We also obtain data from third parties (including other companies). For example, we supplement the data we collect by purchasing demographic data from other companies. We also use services from other companies to help us determine a location based on your IP address in order to customize certain services to your location.
The data we collect depends on the services and features you use, and includes the following.
Name and contact data. We collect your first and last name, email address, postal address, phone number, and other similar contact data.
Credentials. We collect passwords, password hints, and similar security information used for authentication and account access.
Demographic data. We collect data about you such as your age, gender, country and preferred language.
Interests and favorites. We collect data about your interests and favorites, such as the teams you follow in a sports app, the stocks you track in a finance app, or the favorite cities you add to a weather app. In addition to those you explicitly provide, your interests and favorites may also be inferred or derived from other data we collect.
Payment data. We collect data necessary to process your payment if you make purchases, such as your payment instrument number (such as a credit card number), and the security code associated with your payment instrument.
Usage data. We collect data about how you interact with our services. This includes data, such as the features you use, the items you purchase, the web pages you visit, and the search terms you enter. This also includes data about your device, including IP address, device identifiers, regional and language settings, and data about the network, operating system, browser or other software you use to connect to the services. And it also includes data about the performance of the services and any problems you experience with them.
Contacts and relationships. We collect data about your contacts and relationships if you use a Microsoft service to manage contacts, or to communicate or interact with other people or organizations.
Location data. We collect data about your location, which can be either precise or imprecise. Precise location data can be Global Position System (GPS) data, as well as data identifying nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi hotspots, we collect when you enable location-based services or features. Imprecise location data includes, for example, a location derived from your IP address or data that indicates where you are located with less precision, such as at a city or postal code level.
Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the services you use. This includes: the content of your documents, photos, music or video you upload to a Microsoft service such as OneDrive. It also includes the content of your communications sent or received using Microsoft services, such as the:

subject line and body of an email,
text or other content of an instant message,
audio and video recording of a video message, and
audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate.

Additionally, when you contact us, such as for customer support, phone conversations or chat sessions with our representatives may be monitored and recorded. If you enter our retail stores, your image may be captured by our security cameras.
You have choices about the data we collect. When you are asked to provide personal data, you may decline. But if you choose not to provide data that is necessary to provide a service, you may not be able to use some features or services.
Service-specific sections below describe additional data collection practices applicable to use of those services.
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If you're using Skype and you're concerned about whether your privacy is being invaded, you're doing it wrong because Skype, like anything else on the Internet, is not private. If you want private video conferencing, go with Apple's Facetime.

I'm serious. Check out Apple's privacy policies and compare them to Microsoft's. Apple is saying things like this:

"Other companies try to build a profile about you using a complete history of everywhere you’ve been, usually because they’re targeting you for advertisers. Since our business doesn’t depend on advertising, we have no interest in doing this — and we couldn’t even if we wanted to."

The FBI and DOJ are pissed off that they can't get through Apple's encryption.
 
i hope not the first one to point this out:

it cant be any worse than what google does with you phone or chrome, what Samsung does with your phone and smart TV, or what yahoo collects.

if you have a problem with it, don't use it, and read the eula first.
 
bds1904 said:
i hope not the first one to point this out:

it cant be any worse than what google does with you phone or chrome, what Samsung does with your phone and smart TV, or what yahoo collects.

if you have a problem with it, don't use it, and read the eula first.
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(If true) Since it's at the OS level.. yes it can be.
 
evilsofa said:
When you replied "i'm willing to bet this is a lie.", I assumed you were saying this in response to the last portion of my original post, which quoted Microsoft as stating:



I made that assumption because your reply did not make sense when applied to any other portion of my post. It's a little weird that you don't seem to be able to follow your own conversation.
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that explains a lot, nope I was responding to the data mining, I didn't know anything about phone calls, with the exception of google, I don't believe at this time tech companies are recording phone calls, at least not at this time. given enough time it will happen. after all most the tech companies go to great lengths to ensure that they have full control of the software we use.
 
You really don't know what to believe at this point, for every person or article talking of Windows 10 privacy concerns, there is another person or article to counter it. This thread is no different, you have split opinions from both camps. Bottom line IMO is use what works for you, don't like 10, use 8.1, don't like 8.1 use 7, don't like 7 I guess use Linux. I think if you truly want 100% privacy, don't use anything, computers or smart phones these days, and of course keep your curtains shut!! ;)
 
Just a reminder: if you run an antivirus, it will send your files to its vendor when it thinks it found a threat via heuristics. Even on false positives.
If you run some torrent clients - you share part of your filesystem with the world.
It's not just Windows. Hell, playing devil's advocate I'd say Windows is one of the few pieces of software that will be used by companies big enough to negotiate iffy features away.
All the data mining a company would need you have already agreed to by posting private stuff on social media, peeing on some bushes in a CCTV covered park or wearing google glass.
 
The only thing I'm surprised by is how brain washed and ignorant some people seem here.

If you have nothing to hide why don't you post your bank account details? And please post your social media usernames and passwords. And while you're at it please give me your email details too, I'd like to read your emails. Since you said you have nothing to hide. But if you have nothing to hide why don't you put up cameras in your home and broadcast 24/7.



As long as there is even a slightest chance that this data collection is taking place, I assume that it does take place and act accordingly. I've read the whole topic and I didn't see any articles linked that would debunk any of this.

People saying "I turned it off, and I believe it's off" is only proof of how gullible some can be.
 
M76 said:
As long as there is even a slightest chance that this data collection is taking place, I assume that it does take place and act accordingly. I've read the whole topic and I didn't see any articles linked that would debunk any of this.

People saying "I turned it off, and I believe it's off" is only proof of how gullible some can be.
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You should probably just get off the internet if this is really your stance. There is a better than "slightest chance" that something on your electronics could be collecting info on you at any time. Just browsing this forum is providing information to multiple servers about your whereabouts and times you use the Internet. People could use that information to track your movements. If you have a cell phone, they know where you are all the damn time, including who you call, what you browse, and who you chat with. Even if you go through a VPN, you are still revealing personal details to the VPN provider.

You are the brainwashed one here, you wouldn't be posting if you believed what you said and acted accordingly to prevent servers from collecting data from you.
 
Another attempt to give you all some perspective.

Do you realize you can go out and buy a device which will point a laser beam at a picture on someone's wall from a mile away and analyze changes in reflected wavelength - turning it into a microphone that works through walls?

Do you realize that almost every small town has at least one weirdo driving around with a parabolic microphone recording random people's conversations?

Tin foil hat you say?
Last year I was hired by a "an" institution to publish "some" public auction on a webpage.
There was large money involved.
I was just a nerd in a t-shirt sitting in on some suits' meetings as they finalized the shape and form of said auction. I was merely waiting for the files to be ready.

My image and voice was recorded via high tech surveillance equipment hidden in "something" and sent to a "magical place" that basically x-rayed me.

I had to explain to my closest family so they wouldn't freak out when some men enter the house through windows and ask about me. This "happens" here in democratic Poland.

A few blocks away, a guy was suspected of dealing weed.
One day in broad daylight a mobile discoteque arrived in several unmarked cars, and dozens of guys with SMGs rushed out. The guy had a burglar-proof door. So they made another door-hole next to it :)

A guy I know and thoroughly dislike tried to make it as an IT security buff. He couldn't even configure a fucking UTM without locking himself out.
So he moved on to greener pastures. He stole some money here and there and got himself detective gear. Now, because he is merely a child with a match box, I managed to find out the fucker lost himself and has some weird ass data of random people.

This is in a rural part of a third world country.

Stuff goes around....
 
bds1904 said:
i hope not the first one to point this out:

it cant be any worse than what google does with you phone or chrome, what Samsung does with your phone and smart TV, or what yahoo collects.

if you have a problem with it, don't use it, and read the eula first.
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While everything Google and the NSA does is VERY BAD, it's magnitudes worse when this spying is also happening on a device that you (are suppose to) own. At the VERY LEAST we should have full expectation of privacy on our own LAN/house.

The Samsung TV thing is super bad as well, and supposedly Siri does the same thing. This stuff needs to be illegal, but instead, governments actually love it.

I have a Samsung TV but it's an older model so I'm almost positive I'm safe, though really I probably should open it up and check for a mic or transmitter or other type of device that looks suspicious. It's pretty bad when we can't even trust things that we buy to bring them into our homes because they might be spying on us.
 
ocellaris said:
You should probably just get off the internet if this is really your stance. There is a better than "slightest chance" that something on your electronics could be collecting info on you at any time. Just browsing this forum is providing information to multiple servers about your whereabouts and times you use the Internet. People could use that information to track your movements. If you have a cell phone, they know where you are all the damn time, including who you call, what you browse, and who you chat with. Even if you go through a VPN, you are still revealing personal details to the VPN provider.

You are the brainwashed one here, you wouldn't be posting if you believed what you said and acted accordingly to prevent servers from collecting data from you.
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There is a difference between seeing when I log in to a site, and collecting every keystroke and forwarding webcam data, don't you think? I don't mind sharing some usage data, but I do mind if my OS broadcasts my every keystroke to some server who knows where. This is not black and white, as you try to make it out. There is a middle ground here, where we used to sit.

It's entirely possible that I have rootkits on my computer stealing more data than I can imagine. But It's not likely. I can only defend myself against what I see. And I can defend myself against windows 10 by not using it until I'm sure that there is no substance to these claims.

If there were absolutely nothing to it there wouldn't be so much talk about it. If you say it's just FUD, then why wasn't there something like this when Windows 8 or 8.1 was released? Every rumour is based on something, and until I can tell definitely that it's based on lies rather than facts I reserve judgement.
 
rezerekted said:
But the better VPN providers don't log anything. Stop being an apologist!
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Lie after lie after lie with all VPN providers.

If you don't log how can you know if your VPN service has been compromised? You don't. That means if they don't log it should be treated as compromised anyways.

Should this behavior with logging and tracking be illegal? No. Should there be more up-front warnings about it? Yes. Would 97% of people not even read these warnings? Yep....

97% of the world doesn't know enough about being monitored to care if they are.

Hi NSA, how are you today? Lol *waves*
 
97%? I think you overestimate the naivety of Internet users.

https://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-providers-really-take-anonymity-seriously-111007/
“We absolutely do not maintain any VPN logs of any kind. We utilize shared IP addresses rather than dynamic or static IPs, so it is not possible to match a user to an external IP. These are some of the many solutions we have implemented to enable the strongest levels of anonymity amongst VPN services."
 
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What I know is that every single time I make a local windows search with all toggles and settings set to off and search online is off (or deny access or whatever is required to seemingly stay private. I even uninstalled a lot of "apps" through powershell) a slew of connections are being made to a specific IP address "204.79.197.200". A quick arin.net search reveals it belongs to Microsoft (and in fact this entire block belongs to MS: 204.79.195.0 - 204.79.197.255 )

So, what is being sent every time I make a local search for files on my own PC?

Edit: Also connections are being made to IP 75.126.99.228 very regularly. A arin.net search says this IP belongs to a company called SoftLayer Technologies Inc. URL: http://www.softlayer.com/ Which apparently is an IBM company.
 
I understand people concerns about privacy and its a valid concern. But really I think Windows 10 is low on the list of problems when its comes to privacy. Take the NSA for one example, or all the hacking being done to places like Home Depot, Target, the IRS and many more. My sons SS number and other personal information was stolen in a hack of a affiliate of Blue Cross, my Home Depot account was compromised by hackers. All these breeches of security took place long before Windows 10. If anybody thinks that by not using Windows 10 your privacy is safe, think again, chances are someone out there, maybe Russia, North Korea, China and possibly even here in the USA has your information. These days it seems the only way to truly protect your information/privacy is to live in a cave.
 
felt said:
It's fine by me, I definitely don't have anything to hide.
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"If you have nothing to hide - then you have nothing to fear" -Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda of Nazi Germany.
 
Guys, I think we're getting away from the point. In layman's terms, here's what I as a customer want to know.

1. Does Windows 10 data mine worse than Windows 7?
2. Will the OS respect my settings (if I tell it not to report something, will it respect that and not do it behind my back)?

I think we can all agree that there will be data mining, no matter what. It's just a matter of to what extent I will have control over it. If it matches Windows 7 without being way too intrusive in what it reports, I would be fine with it.
 
I just installed Windows 10 last night. I chose custom setup on the initial install and was pretty sure I turned everything off, but then when you pop into 'Privacy' in Windows there is loads of stuff still enabled. I just turned off about 10 more things through the Privacy pane. Have people been checking that or are they relying on the fact that they turned everything off during the initial installation?

Haven't seen this linked, here's the "Privacy Statement" from Microsoft if anyone is interested.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx

This one's also interesting. In Privacy > Feedback & Diagnostics, theres a "Diagnostic and usage data" section that cannot be disabled. You only have the option to reduce it from Full to Enhanced or Basic. Here's there FAQ about that data. This looks similar to error reporting on previous versions of Windows. Granted, in previous versions the pop-up after a crash would ask if you wanted to send it to Microsoft instead of sending things automatically.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/feedback-diagnostics-privacy-faq


I'm still concerned about the reports people are giving of the constant connections to the Windows external addresses.
 
Calavaro said:
Edit: Also connections are being made to IP 75.126.99.228 very regularly. A arin.net search says this IP belongs to a company called SoftLayer Technologies Inc. URL: http://www.softlayer.com/ Which apparently is an IBM company.
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Softlayer is a server colo/leasing company so I wonder if MS is leasing all sorts of servers in other data centres in addition to their own as that way they can get around the fact that people may outright block their entire ranges.

I'm actually really curious to start playing with this in a VM. I'll have to set it up soon.
 
ajm786 said:
Guys, I think we're getting away from the point. In layman's terms, here's what I as a customer want to know.

1. Does Windows 10 data mine worse than Windows 7?
2. Will the OS respect my settings (if I tell it not to report something, will it respect that and not do it behind my back)?

I think we can all agree that there will be data mining, no matter what. It's just a matter of to what extent I will have control over it. If it matches Windows 7 without being way too intrusive in what it reports, I would be fine with it.
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What we need is a reputable site that has the knowledge,equipment and resources to do a in-depth analysis of Windows 10. Right now its all just hear say, to many opinions and not enough facts. Maybe HardOCP would be up for the task??
 
Just noticed this in the diagnostics settings. There are three choices, basic, enhanced, and full. Shouldn't there be a "none" option?

What do the different Diagnostic and usage data options mean?


As you use Windows, we collect performance and usage information that helps us identify and troubleshoot problems as well as improve our products and services. We recommend that you select Full for this setting.

•Basic information is data that is vital to the operation of Windows. This data helps keep Windows and apps running properly by letting Microsoft know the capabilities of your device, what is installed, and whether Windows is operating correctly. This option also turns on basic error reporting back to Microsoft. If you select this option, we’ll be able to provide updates to Windows (through Windows Update, including malicious software protection by the Malicious Software Removal Tool), but some apps and features may not work correctly or at all.


•Enhanced data includes all Basic data plus data about how you use Windows, such as how frequently or how long you use certain features or apps and which apps you use most often. This option also lets us collect enhanced diagnostic information, such as the memory state of your device when a system or app crash occurs, as well as measure reliability of devices, the operating system, and apps. If you select this option, we’ll be able to provide you with an enhanced and personalized Windows experience.


•Full data includes all Basic and Enhanced data, and also turns on advanced diagnostic features that collect additional data from your device, such as system files or memory snapshots, which may unintentionally include parts of a document you were working on when a problem occurred. This information helps us further troubleshoot and fix problems. If an error report contains personal data, we won’t use that information to identify, contact, or target advertising to you. This is the recommended option for the best Windows experience and the most effective troubleshooting.
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Guess this is similar to what antivirus software does, now its just built into the OS.
 
Aratech said:
Just noticed this in the diagnostics settings. There are three choices, basic, enhanced, and full. Shouldn't there be a "none" option?



Guess this is similar to what antivirus software does, now its just built into the OS.
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Only the enterprise version has a forth option to turn this off.
 
Aratech said:
Makes sense. I cant imagine what would happen if sensitive corporate or classified government docs made it out of their network embedded in an error log. :p
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Classified documents can't be accessed on computers that are connected to the internet.
 
NoNRG said:
Classified documents can't be accessed on computers that are connected to the internet.
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That's only a NATO policy. But every other company that is not their supplier doesn't give a damn., but they still have files they wouldn't want to wander around logs.

The fact of the matter is people would like to know that their data is safe on their own computer, without having to pull the cord.
 
I would say you are probably lying because you can also download it from majorgeeks, softpedia and numerous other sites and no one else has said it is a bad file.
 
evilsofa said:
If you're using Skype and you're concerned about whether your privacy is being invaded, you're doing it wrong because Skype, like anything else on the Internet, is not private. If you want private video conferencing, go with Apple's Facetime.

I'm serious. Check out Apple's privacy policies and compare them to Microsoft's. Apple is saying things like this:

"Other companies try to build a profile about you using a complete history of everywhere you’ve been, usually because they’re targeting you for advertisers. Since our business doesn’t depend on advertising, we have no interest in doing this — and we couldn’t even if we wanted to."

The FBI and DOJ are pissed off that they can't get through Apple's encryption.
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I see a couple of first time Apple product purchases in my near future until a better option comes around. MS can enjoy spying on my Windows [any version] machine that will only be for playing games from now on, then rebooted into Linux for everything else. I'm tired of being the product. Still have to buy my own dinner and I'm fucked everywhere I turn these days. This data mining everything shit is seriously bad already and things will only be getting worse. Smart people need to make us better alternatives starting yesterday.
 
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