Will this card be a big upgrade?

N

Nerkanistic

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Messages
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I am currently using a Geforce 8600GT on my desktop. I am thinking of upgrading to get better performance from Starcraft 2, but I want to make sure it's worthwhile.

I have been looking at the Radeon HD 4870. Is that a good improvement from the 8600GT?

What reccomendations do you have? I am looking to spend no more than 200.

Thanks!

My current system:

Core 2 Duo E6550
3GB Memory
Geforce 8600GT
 
The HD4870 is an extremely significant upgrade from the 8600GT.
We're talking about triple the FPS in certain games/resolutions.

1742 on PassMark for the HD4870. 390 for the 8600GT.
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?cpu=GeForce+8600+GT
Of course, PassMark doesn't translate directly to real-world performance.

For example, on one FarCry2 benchmark @ 1920x1200, the FPS ratings were:
62 FPS for the HD4870
17 FPS for the 8600GTS, which is actually better than the 8600GT
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...-q4-high-quality-update-3/Far-Cry-2,1677.html

Remember to make sure that your PSU can handle the power required for the HD4870.
Also make sure that you have enough room in your case to fit the extra length of the HD4870.
 
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Hamish Campbell said:
Grab a 5770 imho. Faster than the 4870 and can be had for well under your budget.
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I agree. The 5770 gets a few more frames in DX10 games and supports DX11. Plus, if power is any of your concern, it's way more efficient and uses less power. These positives do come with a catch though. Expect $125 at least to get a 5770 new.
 
Nerkanistic said:
How do the Geforce 200 series compare to the radeon 4000 series for generally under 100?
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The Geforce 200 card that almost directly competes with the 4870 is the GTx 260 and that is no where near $100 new but maybe used.
 
Nerkanistic said:
How do the Geforce 200 series compare to the radeon 4000 series for generally under 100?
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Roughly speaking a GTX 260 = HD 4870, a GTX 275 = HD 4890, and a GTX 285 is 10-20% faster than the GTX 260 but not worth the heat/noise/power/extra money.

If you can find a GTX 260 core 216 for under $90 w/ free shipping, you can beat the HD 4870 sale. It's hard to find brand new 4870s and 260s for under $100, and almost impossible for anything faster. Even if you're willing to buy a secondhand card, I wouldn't hold my breath on anyone selling you a 4890 or 275 for under $100.
 
Nerkanistic said:
How do the Geforce 200 series compare to the radeon 4000 series for generally under 100?
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they don't unless you can find them used. a 90 dollar 4870 is as fast as GTX260 running twice that (180 AR) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130434&cm_re=GTX_260-_-14-130-434-_-Product

not even worth considering. esp for something as lite as SC2. Nvidia was losing their asses on these and EOL them early to cut their losses. Hence the way over inflated price.

edit: and to answer your original question a 4870 will easily walk all over you current card and completely max out that game. However they are behind Nvidia in allowing forced AA in that game. (not a big issue but should be considered) it should be coming out soon.
 
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First off, thanks to everyone for there help. Not only did u answer my question, but the answers were very thorough and clear.

I think I'm just going to pick up the HD 4650 from my local best buy for 90.00. It's smaller which is of a concern (I am using a hp m9000t). It seems the perfrmance of the 4650 is significantly better then the 8600gt as well.

The psu I will be using is a 350 watt. That's very low, but I am not sure I can replace it with something higher, so I hope the power required from the 4660 is not too much higher then my current 8600gt.

Thanks again for any comments!
 
Nerkanistic said:
First off, thanks to everyone for there help. Not only did u answer my question, but the answers were very thorough and clear.

I think I'm just going to pick up the HD 4650 from my local best buy for 90.00. It's smaller which is of a concern (I am using a hp m9000t). It seems the perfrmance of the 4650 is significantly better then the 8600gt as well.

The psu I will be using is a 350 watt. That's very low, but I am not sure I can replace it with something higher, so I hope the power required from the 4660 is not too much higher then my current 8600gt.

Thanks again for any comments!
Click to expand...

That's a pretty rotten price for a low-range card. If you are concerned about power level, try a 5750 or 5670, or an NVIDIA 240 GT, instead. They're far faster than a 4650, a 5670 costs $90 or less, and by the way don't let anyone tell you ATI doesn't have forced AA on SC2. They do. It just came out within the last few days via their 10.7a hotfix.

I used to have a 300W system and ran a 4670 just fine, a 5670 takes only a little more wattage: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_5670_IceQ/26.html Same for the 5750: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_5750_PCS/28.html Heck you could probably even run a 5770 if you have the power connectors for it, though it could strain your PSU if it isn't a high-quality one.

Edited to add: of course, what resolution you play at matters a great deal, too. This handy chart gives you some idea of what to expect at 1680x1050:

http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/starcraft_ii_wings_of_liberty_beta_performance,5.html

For 1920x1200: http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/starcraft_ii_wings_of_liberty_beta_performance,4.html

Of course, you could play at lower settings or overclock, too. So it's just to give you an idea.
 
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Nerkanistic said:
First off, thanks to everyone for there help. Not only did u answer my question, but the answers were very thorough and clear.

I think I'm just going to pick up the HD 4650 from my local best buy for 90.00. It's smaller which is of a concern (I am using a hp m9000t). It seems the perfrmance of the 4650 is significantly better then the 8600gt as well.

The psu I will be using is a 350 watt. That's very low, but I am not sure I can replace it with something higher, so I hope the power required from the 4660 is not too much higher then my current 8600gt.

Thanks again for any comments!
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90 is a bad price for that. you can pick up a 5670 for around that and its much, much faster. Not to mention the 4870. If your PSU is an issue you can upgrade it and the card for your budget. (you should upgrade that anyways if its a cheap one.)

52 shipped no rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/NewProduct.aspx?Item=N82E16817371023

33 dollars AR http://www.newegg.com/Product/NewProduct.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008

both of these will be enough for the 4870 add another 15 to 20 bucks will get you a 650 watt. it will be a good investment regardless of your video card. (not necessary the 650, just the better PSU)

really PSU is not the area that should be skimped on, nor is it necessary. both those are decent PSUs.
 
4650 is about the worst choice you could have made. You obviously didn't listen to anyone here.
 
I tend to agree. A 4650 isn't much better than the integrated graphics you find on motherboards these days. At least buy a 4670. Paying $90 for a 4650 is like paying $20,000 for a '71 Pinto.
 
I'm pretty sure the 4650 is a downgrade from a 8600GT... if not, it will barely be an improvement.
 
sKiDmArK said:
I'm pretty sure the 4650 is a downgrade from a 8600GT... if not, it will barely be an improvement.
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if its a ddr3 4650 then its about a 30% upgrade over an 8600gt ddr3. if its a ddr2 4650 then barely better at all than an 8600gt ddr3.
 
It's not a good idea to make an impulse buy like that... grab any number of better cards online for the same price as other people have been saying.
 
Nerkanistic said:
First off, thanks to everyone for there help. Not only did u answer my question, but the answers were very thorough and clear.

I think I'm just going to pick up the HD 4650 from my local best buy for 90.00. It's smaller which is of a concern (I am using a hp m9000t). It seems the perfrmance of the 4650 is significantly better then the 8600gt as well.

The psu I will be using is a 350 watt. That's very low, but I am not sure I can replace it with something higher, so I hope the power required from the 4660 is not too much higher then my current 8600gt.

Thanks again for any comments!
Click to expand...

That's severely overpriced for a low-range card with extremely low memory bandwidth. That HD 4650 with DDR2 memory is not worth more than half that much, IMHO. In fact, Busted Buy charges way too much for all of the graphics cards that they carry!

Best Buy, despite its name, is actually one of the worst places in the U.S. to purchase a graphics card on a performance-per-dollar basis. In fact, virtually every single one of the newer cards they've been getting are priced significantly higher - as much as $50.00 higher - than the companys' ERP (Estimated Retail Price, or list price).
 
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Nerkanistic said:
First off, thanks to everyone for there help. Not only did u answer my question, but the answers were very thorough and clear.

I think I'm just going to pick up the HD 4650 from my local best buy for 90.00. It's smaller which is of a concern (I am using a hp m9000t). It seems the perfrmance of the 4650 is significantly better then the 8600gt as well.

The psu I will be using is a 350 watt. That's very low, but I am not sure I can replace it with something higher, so I hope the power required from the 4660 is not too much higher then my current 8600gt.

Thanks again for any comments!
Click to expand...

If you haven't done so, don't buy this card. About 2 months ago, I made this same purchase, the exact same card canondale linked to. I was severely disappointed, and found it struggled in every game that came out after 2006 @ a 1280 x 1024 resolution. I returned it to best buy, and picked up a HD 4670 1gb ddr3 from newegg for $63. Overall I've been pretty pleased witht eh 4670 for its price. @1280 x 1024, it has run every game I've attempted well. Don't waste your money on that 4650.
 
"Hmmm let me just start a thread asking questions and advice. Hopefully I'll receive a bunch of good information and suggestions, then I'll follow none of it and just do whatever anyway. Plus I'll even tell everyone how I'm not gonna do anything they said. It'll be great!"
 
Nerkanistic said:
The psu I will be using is a 350 watt. That's very low, but I am not sure I can replace it with something higher, so I hope the power required from the 4660 is not too much higher then my current 8600gt.
Click to expand...

Which 350W PSU do you have?

And yes bad call on the HD 4650.
 
Hamish Campbell said:
"Hmmm let me just start a thread asking questions and advice. Hopefully I'll receive a bunch of good information and suggestions, then I'll follow none of it and just do whatever anyway. Plus I'll even tell everyone how I'm not gonna do anything they said. It'll be great!"
Click to expand...

My goodness, can't say I appreciate the sarcasm. I haven't bought the card yet people, calm down. As much as I am grateful for all the help, can't say I appreciate the bunch of pointless posts that came afterwards so far. There's a reason why I posted my initial decision: so I could see the reactions. As such, the reactions have been negative so I will not be going the 4650 route. Still though, in my opinion that's no reason to write in such a sarcastic and rude tone.

I GUESS I have to be careful of exactly what I write on these boards, or I will be chewed up alive.
 
Danny Bui said:
Which 350W PSU do you have?

And yes bad call on the HD 4650.
Click to expand...

I haven't checked yet, but I do know its' 350W given the specs given on HP's site. I assume it's really nothing special, probably generic since I bought it from a dealer like HP. I'll check after work today.
 
OP I would not recommend the 4650 for your needs. However since you bought it at a B&M store you can usually return it within 30 days without problems. I'd recommend that you look at a 5670. That video card sips power and offers signfiicant performance enhancements over your old video card.

Power consumption figures:
29.png


Source:
http://techgage.com/article/atis_radeon_hd_5670_-_directx_11_for_100/10
 
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Nerkanistic said:
My goodness, can't say I appreciate the sarcasm. I haven't bought the card yet people, calm down. As much as I am grateful for all the help, can't say I appreciate the bunch of pointless posts that came afterwards so far. There's a reason why I posted my initial decision: so I could see the reactions. As such, the reactions have been negative so I will not be going the 4650 route. Still though, in my opinion that's no reason to write in such a sarcastic and rude tone.

I GUESS I have to be careful of exactly what I write on these boards, or I will be chewed up alive.
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You had every reason to be chewed up just posting that decision. Nothing more annoying then when someone asks for advice, gets some good advice and then (in your case) seems like they ignore the advice. People are giving up some of their time to help you and you just spit in their face with crap like that.

I'd be mad too.
 
armandh01 said:
You had every reason to be chewed up just posting that decision. Nothing more annoying then when someone asks for advice, gets some good advice and then (in your case) seems like they ignore the advice. People are giving up some of their time to help you and you just spit in their face with crap like that.

I'd be mad too.
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Your making it out like I ignored the advice on purpose. No one mentioned anything on the 4650 previous to my decision, so it wasn't like I went directly against anyones advice. Remember, it's only advice. In this case my decision at the time (remember I didn't get IT), was based on convenience because theres a Best Buy that had it 1 minute away from me. Clearly I see now that this route is the wrong one to take, but that is the point of it all isn't it? I post and take what I get from the reactions. But don't make it out like I simply ignored everyone's advice here.

There's alot of factors that go into a decision. I understand the advice given here is from very knowledgeable people, so when something like what I did gets interpreted out of context, it can lead to angry retort. But as I've made it very CLEAR in every single post I've had in this thread, I've always clearly stated my appreciation for any help. And that's the simple truth, if people can't see that then I think people are taking these boards too personal these days. It wasn't like I said "everything you guys mentioned I will not choose, I'm going to go with this 4650 instead," because like I mentioned, that model was never brought up before.
 
Nerkanistic said:
My goodness, can't say I appreciate the sarcasm. I haven't bought the card yet people, calm down. As much as I am grateful for all the help, can't say I appreciate the bunch of pointless posts that came afterwards so far. There's a reason why I posted my initial decision: so I could see the reactions. As such, the reactions have been negative so I will not be going the 4650 route. Still though, in my opinion that's no reason to write in such a sarcastic and rude tone.

I GUESS I have to be careful of exactly what I write on these boards, or I will be chewed up alive.
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Easy there. I would just hate to see you buy a 4650 for any kind of gaming, especially at the absurd price Best Buy wants to charge..
 
armandh01 said:
You had every reason to be chewed up just posting that decision. Nothing more annoying then when someone asks for advice, gets some good advice and then (in your case) seems like they ignore the advice. People are giving up some of their time to help you and you just spit in their face with crap like that.

I'd be mad too.
Click to expand...

1: You don't have to give your advice.
2. The OP does not have to take your advice.
3. Just because you and everyone else made different suggestions for what the OP should get does not mean that he has to take it.
4. If your not putting money towards the OP's new card purchase then you have no decision power to what they decide on.
5. You have no reason to be mad, just an excuse to come on here and blab your fat mouth and crap attitude and spew your filth all over other people.
6. You have no right to verbally abuse the OP because he does not agree with yours or anyone else recomendations.

Grow up and get over it!
 
Hamish Campbell said:
Easy there. I would just hate to see you buy a 4650 for any kind of gaming, especially at the absurd price Best Buy wants to charge..
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Haha, well rest assured Hamish, I did not get the 4650. You don't have to tell me to be easy though, you should tell that to some of the other people here who seem to think I spit on there advice.
 
In any case, since it is a HP, I really can't say that included PSU is capable of 350W. Hell not even sure what it's capable of. I'd err on the side of caution and repalce the PSU with something like this:
$50 - Corsair 400CX 400W PSU
 
Relax guys. This is free advice and he's not obligated to take it. Calling it 'spit on your face' is way over the top. There's no reason to get mad here.
 
Danny Bui said:
In any case, since it is a HP, I really can't say that included PSU is capable of 350W. Hell not even sure what it's capable of. I'd err on the side of caution and repalce the PSU with something like this:
$50 - Corsair 400CX 400W PSU
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he would be fine with that sparse pc and a 5670 or gt240. we are talking less than 150 watts actual load.
 
cannondale06 said:
he would be fine with that sparse pc and a 5670 or gt240. we are talking less than 150 watts actual load.
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That's great news. Already pretty much set on the 5670, but the required power was of some concern. Looks like I will be ordering the 5670 sometime soon.
 
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