Will nvidia EVER fix the shimmering problem?

fuzzbutt99 said:
H@ll yeah! I've seen two 6800gt's with the same problem. Nvidia is fast but the shimmering sux. Who wants to pay $400 for a card that makes the game looks like crap. BTW the 2d on the 6800gt sux too :D
But the truth is you don't have many options as the x800 is built on older architecture and may not be as futureproof. Although for current games the x800 looks better then nvidea. Hopefully one of the betas will clear up the problems but I'm skeptical.
Click to expand...


who wants to pay for an ATi that has issues with alpha blending? Each card has its own set of problems. And this problem was there since that 9700-9800
 
All right, these vids are made byStaticXtra of nvnews.net and hosted by me:

Notice the horrible shimmering in the middle of the screen in both of these shots. It really doe smake the game almost uplayable

(Right click and save as...)

http://www.novicee.com/vids/bf1942lod0.avi
http://www.novicee.com/vids/eqlod0.avi

Here are the same games with the LOD value set to 1 instead of 0. Makes the issue much less, however thats not a fix for a $400 card:

(Right click and save as...)

http://www.novicee.com/vids/bf1942lod1.avi
http://www.novicee.com/vids/eqlod1.avi

These videos are made with High Quality Settings, 4xaa and 16xaf with trilinear forced on (ALL opts OFF).
 
rancor said:
who wants to pay for an ATi that has issues with alpha blending? Each card has its own set of problems. And this problem was there since that 9700-9800
Click to expand...

Its not "issues", it simply does not have SSAA and thats not much of a point anyway since 8XS isn't very practical in new games. You're trying to liken a driver/hardware flaw to an unsupported feature, hardly the same thing.
 
Emret said:
guess who else has the FB pride!!@!@ yay
Click to expand...

Don't worry in his, tranCendenZ, batman, and empty's world nVidia is always right and ATi wrong.
 
MFZ said:
Its not "issues", it simply does not have SSAA and thats not much of a point anyway since 8XS isn't very practical in new games. You're trying to liken a driver/hardware flaw to an unsupported feature, hardly the same thing.
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Thats true but this could most likely be a bug that can be fixed, if the 65 drivers had it less then the 66's it seems something is breaking the AF patterns. Just have to wait and see.

The alpha issue is due to ATi's different calculation methods and this can't be fixed its in the hardware itself.
 
rancor said:
Thats true but this could most likely be a bug that can be fixed, if the 65 drivers had it less then the 66's it seems something is breaking the AF patterns. Just have to wait and see.

The alpha issue is due to ATi's different calculation methods and this can't be fixed its in the hardware itself.
Click to expand...

What alpha issue? If you have a high end game with alpha textures, the nVidia card will have the same problems since 8xS will kill its performance. Its not like 8xS is free for nVidia cards and they can simply enable supersampling anytime. Now if you mean older games or ones based on the Q3 engine then sure, it will work fine and that is a leg up on ATi. As for the shimmering problem, I'm giving nVidia the benefit of the doubt as well and seeing if they can fix this within 2 driver revisions. If not then I'll think there's something more to it.
 
Cali3350 said:
All right, these vids are made byStaticXtra of nvnews.net and hosted by me:

Notice the horrible shimmering in the middle of the screen in both of these shots. It really doe smake the game almost uplayable

(Right click and save as...)

http://www.novicee.com/vids/bf1942lod0.avi
http://www.novicee.com/vids/eqlod0.avi

Here are the same games with the LOD value set to 1 instead of 0. Makes the issue much less, however thats not a fix for a $400 card:

(Right click and save as...)

http://www.novicee.com/vids/bf1942lod1.avi
http://www.novicee.com/vids/eqlod1.avi

These videos are made with High Quality Settings, 4xaa and 16xaf with trilinear forced on (ALL opts OFF).
Click to expand...
I have an ati 9800 pro, so I was curious to see what you guys were talking about. I do see it, but barely I watched all 4 vids, The game I seen was diffently playable. Give it for 400 hundred dollars you would hope everything was perfect. but is it really the big of a deal.
 
I think it is a DX9 issue. I played some games (with 65.73) and got the following results:

Doom3: no shimmering
FarCry: extremely little shimmering
PainKiller: lots of shimmering, but 16aniso helps a lot
Neverwinter Nights: no shimmering
CS:S: extremely little shimmering, but 16aniso makes it all go away
X2 - extremely little shimmering

NWN and D3 are OpenGL so I think it's a DX9 issue. This means a driver update will fix it, but to be honest it is only bad in painkiller. In all the other games it is really so little you don't even notice it. I don't play painkiller so I really have no probs.
 
MFZ said:
What alpha issue? If you have a high end game with alpha textures, the nVidia card will have the same problems since 8xS will kill its performance. Its not like 8xS is free for nVidia cards and they can simply enable supersampling anytime. Now if you mean older games or ones based on the Q3 engine then sure, it will work fine and that is a leg up on ATi. As for the shimmering problem, I'm giving nVidia the benefit of the doubt as well and seeing if they can fix this within 2 driver revisions. If not then I'll think there's something more to it.
Click to expand...


on the r300's and up are more "see through" then they should be when using alpha blending or anything to do with alpha's, its due to the way alpha's are calculated on the radeon's, alpha min levels seem to be out of wack. This has no association with supersampling.
 
OOOH NOooOOsss somebody is bashing my beloved company in a forum.. I shall change the direction of the discussion and turn it around completely and make the enemy of my beloved company look bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad

Ati
BAD
Nvidia
GOOD
Franboyance
HOLY

There are still people in cambodia that are not christians ohh nooss

god save'em
 
Emret said:
OOOH NOooOOsss somebody is bashing my beloved company in a forum.. I shall change the direction of the discussion and turn it around completely and make the enemy of my beloved company look bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad

Ati
BAD
Nvidia
GOOD
Franboyance
HOLY

There are still people in cambodia that are not christians ohh nooss

god save'em
Click to expand...


? what the hell are you talking about and stop thread crapping, I'm saying you don't shouldn't say not to buy one over the other if performance is similiar go with which ever one, both cards have some issues its not like ATi is free of its problems either.
 
You are the one that is thread crapping..
This thread is about an issue that nvidia cards have, and how nvidia keeps ignoring it since the beginning

But for some reason for the last few replies it has been about how Ati sucks at doing someone thing else and how nvidia is better at it than ati

I salute you for your true franboy spirit
 
Emret said:
You are the one that is thread crapping..
This thread is about an issue that nvidia cards have, and how nvidia keeps ignoring it since the beginning

But for some reason for the last few replies it has been about how Ati sucks at doing someone thing else and how nvidia is better at it than ati

I salute you for your true franboy spirit
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read what the guy said he said he wouldn't buy a 400 buck card if its got shimmering well guess what my response was doesnt' matter its a rendering glitch ATi has them too, its not a huge problem every card has them now please shut up because every time you ever posted has turned it a thread into a flame war,,,,,


just to enumerate the post

H@ll yeah! I've seen two 6800gt's with the same problem. Nvidia is fast but the shimmering sux. Who wants to pay $400 for a card that makes the game looks like crap. BTW the 2d on the 6800gt sux too
But the truth is you don't have many options as the x800 is built on older architecture and may not be as futureproof. Although for current games the x800 looks better then nvidea. Hopefully one of the betas will clear up the problems but I'm skeptical.
Click to expand...

I think you have more !!!!!!ism in you then you want to mention
 
What i do is not franboyism.. I just expose you and your like for who they are.. it is you who turn it into a flame war.. because the few known people who propagate every day is so god damn annoying

are you hurt yet? please stop propagating and focus on the issue that nvidia cards have a shimmering bug that nvidia did nothing about it for months
 
Emret said:
What i do is not franboyism.. I just expose you and your like for who they are.. it is you who turn it into a flame war.. because the few known people who propagate every day is so god damn annoying

are you hurt yet? please stop propagating and focus on the issue that nvidia cards have a shimmering bug that nvidia did nothing about it for months
Click to expand...


hurt by what a 10 year whos never going to reach maturity, please.......


Just like ATi alpha bug thats been there for 2 years going on 3?

Its one or the other, don't go around saying its not worth it because of a bug and not look at the other side.

Your arguement just hit a soft spot I see? You keep failing to mention the alpha bug.

Kinda makes me think why I ever took you off my ignore list? well I guess your back on it.
 
You are still doing it, and its annoying..

Subject : Will nvidia EVER fix the shimmering problem?

It is NOT : Ati's alpha bug

DING DING

Why dont you let people rant about their problems with their cards here instead of turning the subject around 360 degrees, and PM me to sort out your disorders? I have a phd in psychology. I can help, really.
 
Emret said:
You are still doing it, and its annoying..

Why dont you let people rant about their problems with their cards here instead of turning the subject around 360 degrees, and PM me to sort out your disorders? I have a phd in psychology. I can help, really.
Click to expand...


LOL to bad you couldn't go all the way and become a doctor....... or was med school just to hard to get into :eek:


you've been ignored
 
lol.. truth hurts doesnt it? Ignoring is a way for you to turn your back to the truth that hurts deeply and to feel better about yourself..

I suggest you get some help asap
 
Anyways back to the topic, general speaking there will be bugs here and there, but if its something major like the shimmering should come to nV's attention with Pain Killer they will look into it. Looking through driver release notes haven't seen it mentioned in them yet.
 
Guys, this is not a bug recently introduced. Its not something Nvidia has just recently borked in their drivers. it has been this way since sme people started getting the very first cards off the line. Theyve already had 20 driver leaks, not one fixes it. They never release official drivers so its not as if we can wait there. This issue makes the card almost useless in some games, and they dont care. Please tellme how that begins to be ok?

And get off the ATi issue, start your own thread for it.
 
Cali3350 said:
Guys, this is not a bug recently introduced. Its not something Nvidia has just recently borked in their drivers. it has been this way since sme people started getting the very first cards off the line. Theyve already had 20 driver leaks, not one fixes it. They never release official drivers so its not as if we can wait there. This issue makes the card almost useless in some games, and they dont care. Please tellme how that begins to be ok?

And get off the ATi issue, start your own thread for it.
Click to expand...


What sucks, because I'm getting the same issues as you, and I've tired a lot of crap, is hardly any gives any suggestions.

Or people feel like saying "I don't have a problem...your an idiot"

I can't get rid of farcry shimmering? Do you have farcry and have it shimmering? (download demo if you don't)
I can reduce shimmering in Doom3...but only by lowering the LOD level...which isn't an ideal way of doing something

Painkiller has some some, but not enough to REALLY bug me

Seems to me like a possible A64 problem, because I REALLY don't recall it being this bad or noticable on my XP3000+
 
Cali3350 said:
Theyve already had 20 driver leaks, not one fixes it. They never release official drivers so its not as if we can wait there. This issue makes the card almost useless in some games, and they dont care.
And get off the ATi issue, start your own thread for it.
Click to expand...

Just checked FarCry, Doom3, Chaser, COD and COD - UO.

I have NO "shimmering" in those games, and never had.
I see the "shimmering" in the video's but that dosn't happen on my system in the games I mentionend.
I don't play Painkiller or BF1942, so can't say for those games, not my gametypes, so can't say for those games.
(P4A 2.4, 512 RDRAM, Asus P4T-E and Sparkle 6800GT)
I run 66.81 and they appernetly "fixed" the "shimmering" on my system, actually they "fixed" the problem for me since 61.76...

and a quick question, is this the only place you complain or have you sent mails to your manufacturer/nVidia?

Terra....
 
Terra said:
Just checked FarCry, Doom3, Chaser, COD and COD - UO.

I have NO "shimmering" in those games, and never had.
I see the "shimmering" in the video's but that dosn't happen on my system in the games I mentionend.
I don't play Painkiller or BF1942, so can't say for those games, not my gametypes, so can't say for those games.
(P4A 2.4, 512 RDRAM, Asus P4T-E and Sparkle 6800GT)
I run 66.81 and they appernetly "fixed" the "shimmering" on my system, actually they "fixed" the problem for me since 61.76...

and a quick question, is this the only place you complain or have you sent mails to your manufacturer/nVidia?

Terra....
Click to expand...
I complain many places. I made this thread hoping Brent/Kyle would confront them about it. Doom 3 it doesnt happen in, FarCry it happens very little in (though still noticeable to me). Never played Chaser. Its simply not acceptable for this many people to have this kind of problem for this long with a $400 video card.
 
Has anyone done a poll to see if it's a certain motherboard chipset or processor type that's causing it? So far I haven't seen any shimmering in games and I've checked Farcry, NWN, Doom 3 and DAoC. Maybe it's something other than the video card?
 
Cali3350 said:
I complain many places. I made this thread hoping Brent/Kyle would confront them about it. Doom 3 it doesnt happen in, FarCry it happens very little in (though still noticeable to me). Never played Chaser. Its simply not acceptable for this many people to have this kind of problem for this long with a $400 video card.
Click to expand...

I'll say again I don't see any shimmering in any of my games, and I have a 6800GT.

Do you even read the threads you make? On NVNEWS someone gave you the answer already.

- BF1942 its correctable (explanation at nvnews)
- It happens on both Nvidia and ATI cards with certain games according to ATI owners who posted there
- If it happens on everything for you there is something wrong with your card as others haven't been able to reproduce it.

That pretty much sums it up. Instead of going on a quest to stir stuff up and blaming Nvidia, go on a quest to fix your own rig & games :)
 
tranCendenZ said:
I'll say again I don't see any shimmering in any of my games, and I have a 6800GT.

Do you even read the threads you make? On NVNEWS someone gave you the answer already.

- BF1942 its correctable (explanation at nvnews)
- It happens on both Nvidia and ATI cards with certain games according to ATI owners who posted there
- If it happens on everything for you there is something wrong with your card as others haven't been able to reproduce it.

That pretty much sums it up. Instead of going on a quest to stir stuff up and blaming Nvidia, go on a quest to fix your own rig & games :)
Click to expand...

Oh look its the nVidia PR man.
 
I've seen shimmering.

SW Knights of the Old Republic has it, but if I crank up to 8xAF and 4xAA it goes away.

BFG 6800GT OC 410/1.08 66.7 Drivers
Doom 3 has no shimmering issues. 1600x1200 8xAF (default) NoAA
SW Battlegrounds No issues. 1600x1200 noaanoaf

I'm running high quality in the drivers
 
Old_Way said:
Has anyone done a poll to see if it's a certain motherboard chipset or processor type that's causing it? So far I haven't seen any shimmering in games and I've checked Farcry, NWN, Doom 3 and DAoC. Maybe it's something other than the video card?
Click to expand...


DUDE I feel this way, I swear i didn't notice this much shimmering (farcry is shimmer happy (IN DOORS not outside) And I REALLY don't recall it being this bad with my XP3000+ cpu. I just got this new one (SIG) and all i see is shimmering in games

People reading this: some of you don't have your computers in your sig. IF YOU DO OR DON"T HAVE shimmering...what is your CPU? I'm really curious
 
Netrat33 said:
People reading this: some of you don't have your computers in your sig. IF YOU DO OR DON"T HAVE shimmering...what is your CPU? I'm really curious
Click to expand...


P4A Northwood 2.4Ghz

Terra...
 
I reinstalled BF1942 and the quality is pretty bad in 66.81 (moderate shimmering, but moiré is more annoying). It's helped a lot with AA and AF, but still noticeable. It reminds me of 3DMark05 (return to proxycon scene) on my Mobility 9600 Pro Turbo and Doom3 with Cat4.9.

It's very slight in 61.77 and not noticeable at all with AF and AA enabled.

BF1942 stands out for being the worst example. I haven't noticed anything that bad in other games I played and there's no noticable moiré or shimmering in several other games I play. I have a feeling that BF1942 and a couple of other games are being agressively "optimized" since they're part of the stock review suite.
 
pxc said:
I reinstalled BF1942 and the quality is pretty bad in 66.81 (moderate shimmering, but moiré is more annoying). It's helped a lot with AA and AF, but still noticeable. It reminds me of 3DMark05 (return to proxycon scene) on my Mobility 9600 Pro Turbo and Doom3 with Cat4.9.

It's very slight in 61.77 and not noticeable at all with AF and AA enabled.

BF1942 stands out for being the worst example. I haven't noticed anything that bad in other games I played and there's no noticable moiré or shimmering in several other games I play. I have a feeling that BF1942 and a couple of other games are being agressively "optimized" since they're part of the stock review suite.
Click to expand...


that heavy optimization has cost nvidia 1 customer. bf1942 is still my favorite game. the moire problem drove me to trading my 6800 gt for a x800 pro.
 
pandora's box said:
that heavy optimization has cost nvidia 1 customer. bf1942 is still my favorite game. the moire problem drove me to trading my 6800 gt for a x800 pro.
Click to expand...
sure. :rolleyes:

I said it looks fine with 61.77 if you actually read the post.
 
Have a suggestion, go into riva tuner and see if any z-compression/optimization is going on. I'm starting to think some sort of z-algorithm is messing up and wondering if it can be "turned off" per say.

I'm no fan boy of any company, I just go with best price/perf I can get. I've had ATI and nVidia, and I've worked for the dreaded nvidia too before. I can say that the guys working there are more than likely aware of this as back in the lab we all used to read hardocp and forums all the time.

I can also say that with certainty, that with the coming SLI and nForce4 boards reaching production they are stretched to their limits in terms of human resources trying to figure out this AND many other issues that exist. Optimizing/stabilizing their nforce4 boards, making SLI work AND be fast, tracking down drivers issues (of which the list never ends). Of the beta leaks you all see on the internet I can tell you a fact that the driver team is the most overworked team at nv as they come up with NIGHTLY builds of drivers at around 2 am every day.

I also know for a fact ATI is addressing the same issues. They also have a crazy performance analysis department that doubles as quality as well. They have a crap load of issues they are addressing every day. They are constatly optimizing/stabiling driver sets. Although they are not leaked as much, you can bet they have drivers made every other day at the least.

Lighten up on them because they do read this stuff and when I worked there sometimes felt like ass because I didn't feel like I was making a dent in the list of issues that never really gets smaller.

It would be more productive to actively work as a community in determining what is causing this problem.

First is how to effectively reproduce this problem. State system specs, driver revisions, any and all relevant settings, games this does appear on, games this doesn't appear on, how you "fixed" some issues.

Since you all have plenty of time to post here, you probably have plenty of time to run a few tests/experiments.

I for one am going to see what I can do to help people solve this issue.

[email protected]
1GB RAM
66.70
High Quality in control panel, no optimizations (coolbits 2.0)
Although I have high quality selected I had to MANUALLY disable the trilinear/anisotropic "optimizations" part else they effectively remained on despite the selection.
Doom 3 was my test bed to see if any optimizations were on.

STKOTOR is a game I noticed shimmering greatly. 4xAA fixes this problem completely.
 
tranCendenZ said:
I'll say again I don't see any shimmering in any of my games, and I have a 6800GT.

Do you even read the threads you make? On NVNEWS someone gave you the answer already.

- BF1942 its correctable (explanation at nvnews)
- It happens on both Nvidia and ATI cards with certain games according to ATI owners who posted there
- If it happens on everything for you there is something wrong with your card as others haven't been able to reproduce it.

That pretty much sums it up. Instead of going on a quest to stir stuff up and blaming Nvidia, go on a quest to fix your own rig & games :)
Click to expand...

If you don't have the problem then get out of the thread. You're not helping anyone so just stop.




Anyway... I have only noticed it with certain games also.

BTW: P4 Northwood 2.8. P4C800 Deluxe mobo, BFG 6800GT
 
Thank you for those who read my post and are starting to put the computer down they have

Here's what is seeming SO FAR reading back into old posts. Still would like more ocmputer submitted

A64 Shimmer GT (thread starter)
A64 Shimmer x800xt(me)
P4 Shimmer GT
P4(NW) No shimmer GT
XP2500 No Shimmer GT
A64 Shimmer 6800ultra (ops off no shimmer)
A64 Shimmer GT
XP2100 Some GT
P4(NW) None GT
A64 Shimmer GT
P4(NW) None GT (Tranz this is you Nvidia lover you ;)

noticing a LITTLE trend there with CPUs (I'm assuming there are less ati users looking in here simply because it's talking about nvidia so ignore that) But I'm looking everywhere for answers and seeing how people are tackling this....New posters, please post your computer for either way for no shimmering or shimmering.
 
Not a problem from my end, I've seen screenshots and it looks pretty nasty. I feel bad for those who are having the issue, 'tis no good :(
 
By ati users you mean x800s users right since I dont experience what you guys are talking about and i have an a64. There was that filtering effect with doom3, but i havent noticed it in the latest drivers so I'm guessing it was fixed.
 
Netrat33 said:
A64 Shimmer GT (thread starter)
A64 Shimmer x800xt(me)
P4 Shimmer GT
P4(NW) No shimmer GT
XP2500 No Shimmer GT
A64 Shimmer 6800ultra (ops off no shimmer)
A64 Shimmer GT
XP2100 Some GT
P4(NW) None GT
A64 Shimmer GT
P4(NW) None GT (Tranz this is you Nvidia lover you ;)

noticing a LITTLE trend there with CPUs.
Click to expand...


I see 5 A64' with GT's who have shimmer(100%)
And I see 4 P4(NW)'s with GT's that have no shimmer(100%)

Now it is to early to conclude anything, but it surely looks a little bit strange :confused:

Terra - One of the P4(NW)'s with a GT and no shimmer...
 
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