Will Linux finally get a break?

[dynajim]

I just ran across Dvoraks take on Win8. Here's an excerp:
"I've been waiting for quite some time to see Microsoft do something incredibly stupid that would open the door so Linux could waltz in and take over the desktop. Right now, there is a mistaken belief that Linux will never be a desktop OS. I disagree. With a few lucky breaks and a misstep by Microsoft, Linux could instantly be on every desktop. From what I hear about Windows 8, this moment may be at hand."

Here's a link to the whole article:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386343,00.asp

Hmmm?

 

[XOR != OR]

Crap, pure crap. What drives the desktop market is not the OS, but the applications that live on top of it. Windows8 doesn't look to be breaking any backwards compatibility, hence there is no reason to migrate away from it.

Dvorak's a nut, I only pay attention to him when I want a laugh. He has no concept about how business IT operates, and even less than a clue about consumer turn over. He's a joke.

That said, I do wish MS would leave their damn UI alone. It's driving me up the god damned wall having to hold my user's hands everytime MS comes out with a new OS.

 

[Jesse B]

Absolute shit.

In my opinion, there are two main reasons that Linux will not (and can not) reach the popularity in the desktop market that Windows has.

One, the lack of software development for it (as touched on by XOR != OR). All the big companies aren't making native versions for Linux. Sure there's alternatives, but people tend to be very happy with what they use and don't want to change. Even moving from MS Office to OpenOffice would be a huge shock for some people. This is even more relevant in corporate environments.

Second, because Linux is free, there's no proper tech support. The people that use Linux have no issues searching the internet for fixes, downloading and compiling source, etc. The average person would have a damn heart attack if their wireless adapter didn't work and they didn't have a toll-free number to call.

This is just my [uneducated] opinion however.

 

[Cheetoz]

It costs money to get supposed from microsoft (I believe the first time its free). Some linux companies exist solely for support as well (red hat, novell, canonical, etc..)

And the software part, it reminds me of the gaming issue with linux. They don't make games for linux because gamers don't use linux, and gamers don't use linux because they don't make games for linux.

There is nothing you can do, microsoft will live forever. Oh well.

 

[Jesse B]

It costs money to get supposed from microsoft (I believe the first time its free). Some linux companies exist solely for support as well (red hat, novell, canonical, etc..)

I was under the impression you had basic tech support when you purchased a copy of Windows? I've never called it so I wasn't sure.

I forgot to mention that there are companies that do offer paid support, so thank you for bringing that up! In my opinion, that just takes away from one of the biggest appeals to Linux though, being that it's [generally] free.

 

[devil22]

You must've missed the part about everything being fine as long as there is a fallback mode, which MS has already demostrated. I don't think it will be all that different from say, WMC.

 

[Joe Average]

I just ran across Dvoraks take ... *snip*

Stopped reading right there since I've been dealing with Dvorak's spew for almost 30 years now. Still ain't making any sense at all but, PC Magazine just keeps him around for whatever reasons... and people just keep right on attaching significance to the spew.

Makes no sense to me...

 

[XOR != OR]

I was under the impression you had basic tech support when you purchased a copy of Windows? I've never called it so I wasn't sure.

I forgot to mention that there are companies that do offer paid support, so thank you for bringing that up! In my opinion, that just takes away from one of the biggest appeals to Linux though, being that it's [generally] free.

There are serious fiscal advantages to running linux, but none of them involve "free". At least, not in a larger business environment.

Still, in the SMB sector, linux is a godsend. If I had to replace all the linux boxes I had out there with the equivalent windows, I'd end up spending multiple thousands of dollars.

 

[dynajim]

Interesting responses!
Actually, I like Dvorak. I think he's pretty spot on most of the time. Could be that it's because we're in the same age bracket?
Actually, I don't think Windows as we know it will ever go away either. It IS too rooted in the business sector and let's face it, THAT's where Microshaft's money is really made!
Personally, I think 7 is about the best MS has ever accomplished in an OS. They're UI is pretty good. Except for the learning curve they've been progressively getting better. I thought XP was really good. Till I saw 7. Though I really think it shoulda been called "Windows Vista! No, really this time"
Just my .02

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Windows did one thing that *nix cannot and that was to unify the computer platform while maintaing compatability with most MS DOS applications. Unfortunately for the Dvoraks dude, he totally mised out on that singlular reality of Windows.......

 

[tdg]

As much as I love Linux having used it for over 10 years and watching it mature, I don't ever see it taking over the desktop. Especially "waltzing in" and taking over because of Win8 as the Dvorak suggests. I really don't even understand the fascination with people thinking Linux will take over the desktop, it IS a good functional desktop, but it will never take over the desktop, which I don't see as such a bad thing.

 

[pxc]

Dvorak just writes things he believes will give him more page views. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOHzHVF-4Mg"]YouTube - ‪John Dvorak hacks Mac fans‬‏[/ame]

He doesn't even believe the garbage he writes.

 

[x509]

Stopped reading right there since I've been dealing with Dvorak's spew for almost 30 years now. Still ain't making any sense at all but, PC Magazine just keeps him around for whatever reasons... and people just keep right on attaching significance to the spew.

Makes no sense to me...

Keeping this guy Dvorak as a columnist was one reason that I stopped reading PC magazine about two years ago, and I was a subscriber at least 20 years!

If MS does make a mis-step, there is a company and an OS far better positioned than Linux to take over the desktop. Hint: they also make smartphones.

 

[bigdogchris]

Even though I liked Vista, the media and public sheep did not. Microsoft survived that, so negative feedback of Windows 8's new UI will be a breeze to surive.

Anyways, the new UI frontend just overlays the standard desktop. I'm 100% confident it can be disabled or not used. Other than that, the basic AERO UI looks very similar to 7.

 

[Deleted member 214115]

I feel that it has had its break, and shall evolve into whatever the needs or usage shall be. This is the beauty of Linux. I think that many are being too subjective rather than objective with Linux.

 

[Monkey God]

Ive been hearing about the year of linux on the desktop for 15 years. If Microsoft fubars Win8 like they did Vista...no one will care.

 

[griffinhart]

I just ran across Dvoraks take on Win8. Here's an excerp:
"I've been waiting for quite some time to see Microsoft do something incredibly stupid that would open the door so Linux could waltz in and take over the desktop. Right now, there is a mistaken belief that Linux will never be a desktop OS. I disagree. With a few lucky breaks and a misstep by Microsoft, Linux could instantly be on every desktop. From what I hear about Windows 8, this moment may be at hand."

Here's a link to the whole article:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386343,00.asp

Hmmm?

Dvorak is a sensationalist hack. He also thought Windows 7 was going to suck and in his words "be an incredible pig."

Plus even if Windows 8 turned out to be a flop, Linux will not find itself instantly on every desktop. Windows 7 is still quite excellent. People wil just stick with it longer.

Though, I find it amusing how people panning Win8 based on a demo of the new UI and nothing else are crying failure.

 

[griffinhart]

I was under the impression you had basic tech support when you purchased a copy of Windows? I've never called it so I wasn't sure.

I forgot to mention that there are companies that do offer paid support, so thank you for bringing that up! In my opinion, that just takes away from one of the biggest appeals to Linux though, being that it's [generally] free.

Typically, support is offered through the PC manufacturer. If you have a problem with you dell workstation, you call dell for as long as it's under warranty. I believe they support the retail box themselves, and OEM versions under certain conditions such as security (They support all security problems like malware free of charge).

 

[XOR != OR]

Dvorak is a sensationalist hack. He also thought Windows 7 was going to suck and in his words "be an incredible pig."

Plus even if Windows 8 turned out to be a flop, Linux will not find itself instantly on every desktop. Windows 7 is still quite excellent. People wil just stick with it longer.

*cough*XP*cough*

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would love to see Linux become a defacto standard but I don't think it will happen. Companies go with Windows because it cost money and comes from a megacorporation and in their mind it makes it better.

Companies need to come to the realisation that there is zero need to pay millions of dollars on large deployments. you can use open source and customzie to your exact needs. less labour (ever try troubleshooting closed source MS apps? A royal pain) and less cost.

Linux does lack lot of management capabilities that can compare to an AD environment though. Someone needs to come up with this, and make it 10x better that that of windows. It would perhaps at least draw attention and small companies would maybe consider it. Linux is robust when it comes to things like automating tasks, it would be a dream to run in an IT environment.

 

[bigdogchris]

There are to many flavors/distro's of Linux for it to ever make it big like Windows. Users may have Redhat or SUSE at work and Ubuntu at home, a friend may have another version, etc.

While this method is great for developers and open source junkies, it doesn't work for mainstream support or adoption.

Linux is never going to go mainstream as long as this type of development style continues. Businesses and users want consistancy and Linux is not consistant at the desktop level.

 

[XOR != OR]

There are to many flavors/distro's of Linux for it to ever make it big like Windows. Users may have Redhat or SUSE at work and Ubuntu at home, a friend may have another version, etc.

While this method is great for developers and open source junkies, it doesn't work for mainstream support or adoption.

Linux is never going to go mainstream as long as this type of development style continues. Businesses and users want consistancy and Linux is not consistant at the desktop level.

Point of clarification; Linux is already mainstream, it'll just never be mainstream on the desktop.

 

[pxc]

Linux does lack lot of management capabilities that can compare to an AD environment though. Someone needs to come up with this, and make it 10x better that that of windows.

Well, it exists, and is not quite 1/2 way there as far as full management capabilities go (10x better ain't happening). But it is a certified Unix OS! Welcome to Macintosh and OS X 10.6.

 

[Ur_Mom]

I don't see Linux taking over if Microsoft screws up Windows 8. I see more people going towards MacOS. Most people are of the "It came with my PC" people, and they know Windows. They don't give a shit, really, as long as it works with their 20 year old cooking program. Linux is FAR from there right now.

Although, I see Windows 8 doing very well.

 

[scaarbelly]

MS could release ME in a windows 8 box and Linux still would remain the same. Linux is what it is and serves a worthwhile purpose but it will stay right where it is at.

 

[heatlesssun]

I think most pundits simply are not getting just how good the Metro UI really is. While the numbers aren't big the Zune HD and Windows Phone 7 have VERY customer satisfaction rates, particularly on the UI. The Zune client uses much of the Metro UI look and feel and it works just fine with a keyboard and mouse. Ironically the Zune desktop client DOESN'T work well with touch.

But Windows 8 is a MAJOR shift and a big gamble, its either going to be hit or big flop, which I don't know.

 

[Ocellaris]

Windows 8 could be such a flop that is makes the Vista launch look good, however it won't help Linux. The fragmented Linux community is it's own worst enemy when it comes to getting the OS on more PCs around the world.

 

[MrCrispy]

Windows is just as cheap (99.9% of people get it for free when they buy a pc), easier to use, has a million more apps, runs better and faster, is just as stable, and is more consistent and well supported. Tell me again why any consumer who's not a geek, and not trying to run on 10 year old hardware, would ever run Linux??

 

[Dan_D]

No.

 

[Mr.Dospod]

Well, it exists, and is not quite 1/2 way there as far as full management capabilities go (10x better ain't happening). But it is a certified Unix OS! Welcome to Macintosh and OS X 10.6.

which as a avid linux user I find great.

Os x has the option to install dev tools such as perl,php, g++ , bash , etc.. which would allow a user like myself to feel at home in such an enviornment.

OSX to me is the perfect blend of everything to make the best consumer os....

I really hope win 8 pushes people towards os x , even though I'm not fond of this whole app crap stuff msft and apple are pushing os x is nicer on the eyes and more powerful in the right hands in my eyes..../rant

 

[Uberbob102000]

which as a avid linux user I find great.

Os x has the option to install dev tools such as perl,php, g++ , bash , etc.. which would allow a user like myself to feel at home in such an enviornment.

OSX to me is the perfect blend of everything to make the best consumer os....

I really hope win 8 pushes people towards os x , even though I'm not fond of this whole app crap stuff msft and apple are pushing os x is nicer on the eyes and more powerful in the right hands in my eyes..../rant

I'll have to disagree here, I certainly hope it doesn't push people towards OS X.

Even if it does flop it's not gonna push many to OS X anyhow because of the significantly increased expense that most people don't want to shell out.

EDIT: I stopped paying attention to Dvorak ages ago. That man has got the worlds biggest stick up his ass.

 

[Mr.Dospod]

why would you not?

I personally like how effecient *nix based systems are with my hardware, hell my mac mini I purchased in 06 is barely reaching its eof with lion requiring a dual core cpu to upgrade. Apple products generally have a longer useability life, yea you can use that 5-6 year old p4 with ht to run windows 7 but will it run as good as a mac that is 5 or 6 years old? The only thing apple doesn't have going for it is price point which I agree...

I have always had a windows box , always use windows , but I wish it wasn't the dominating os , its time for change , windows just isn't impressive.. UI is bleh , memory useage is bleh, file system layout is bleh, file system support - bleh, 10 different flavors of the same os release - bleh..

but then again I am a cs major that has to use linux for my intern, programming classes , etc and have used it for long enough to embrace it and see its great side....(just wish we had more gaming support)

 

[heatlesssun]

Apple products generally have a longer useability life, yea you can use that 5-6 year old p4 with ht to run windows 7 but will it run as good as a mac that is 5 or 6 years old? The only thing apple doesn't have going for it is price point which I agree...

You can't run Lion on a 6 year old Mac. I have put Windows 7 on several 6+ year old systems with adequate RAM and GPUs and it runs quite well. Windows 7 and even 8 will run on single core systems.

 

[Uberbob102000]

I just don't like OS X, it's fine enough for every once and a while I have to use it. That might change with prolonged use of it, but as of right now definitely prefer my Arch Linux, Ubuntu and Windows 7 installs over OS X.

I have to back heatlesssun here, I've had Windows 7 running pretty impressively on some spectacularly shitty hardware.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

why would you not?

I personally like how effecient *nix based systems are with my hardware, hell my mac mini I purchased in 06 is barely reaching its eof with lion requiring a dual core cpu to upgrade. Apple products generally have a longer useability life, yea you can use that 5-6 year old p4 with ht to run windows 7 but will it run as good as a mac that is 5 or 6 years old? The only thing apple doesn't have going for it is price point which I agree...

I have always had a windows box , always use windows , but I wish it wasn't the dominating os , its time for change , windows just isn't impressive.. UI is bleh , memory useage is bleh, file system layout is bleh, file system support - bleh, 10 different flavors of the same os release - bleh..

but then again I am a cs major that has to use linux for my intern, programming classes , etc and have used it for long enough to embrace it and see its great side....(just wish we had more gaming support)

Say what? See sig for direct refutation of your point.. yeah that's right 3 year old C2D desktop running 7 ultimate just fine

 

[jay2472000]

When Windows has a Linux emulator (WINE) or has to come with a way to boot another companies OS (bootcamp) Ill be concerned for the longevity of MS.

 

[Joe Average]

It's a free OS, always has been, and after what, almost 20+ years it's still in the sub-2% range of market share.

If free isn't the break it was looking for, Linux will always be relegated to something that could have been and never was. If you're part of the "2% Club" more power to ya... dare to be different, but don't expect much else from it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

That is sad but true. I don't understand why companies don't at least give it a try. When I hear about insane licensing schemes from MS and other companies, it makes me sick to the stomac how some companies allow themselves to get raped this badly from every angle when there are clear alternatives. Even if they need to hire devs or more IT staff or w/e it's still cheaper.

Then they turn around and say they don't have enough money when an employee needs a new chair or something.

 

[heatlesssun]

Even if they need to hire devs or more IT staff or w/e it's still cheaper.

A lot of people have looked at this and this really isn't the case particularly in larger businesses. Support and maintenance costs tend to vastly outstrip procurement costs. I'm not saying that this is always the case, in some instances Linux or other FOSS solutions be cheaper but if Linux where as cheap overall as you're saying it would have been FAR more widely deployed. It's simply not as cheap as it's procurement costs make it look overall.

 

[XOR != OR]

A lot of people have looked at this and this really isn't the case particularly in larger businesses. Support and maintenance costs tend to vastly outstrip procurement costs. I'm not saying that this is always the case, in some instances Linux or other FOSS solutions be cheaper but if Linux where as cheap overall as you're saying it would have been FAR more widely deployed. It's simply not as cheap as it's procurement costs make it look overall.

Technically, linux is widely deployed. I'd say it's keeping pace with windows in the server arena. It's the desktop where windows is king, and will likely remain so.

This is going to sound counter-intuitive, but it really has nothing to do with the OS. At least, not directly. Rather, it's all about business applications and the platform they are installed on. You aren't going to get massive linux desktop adoption because linux isn't massively deployed on the desktop. But servers...those are a different speed. Those are far easier to deploy, thus they are far easier to swap out technology on. Plus most servers are simply data crunchers of one sort or another. While their CPU and Memory allocations may be steep, it's not specialized hardware with proprietary drivers. Far more agnostic when it comes to server technologies.