Will eBay approve last minute claim on me?

Will eBay force me to refund or tell him to talk to ASUS?

  • Get ready to feel burned, Blue.

    Votes: 60 88.2%

  • You're going to win this one!

    Votes: 8 11.8%
  • Total voters
    68
  • Poll closed .
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This is why I hate ebay and so many chitty buyers. OP you seem like a really good seller and since you sent him the original receipt all he has to do is RMA it, if it really was problematic.

unreal, good luck
 
Yup after getting dicked around by Paypal and ebay I closed both of my accounts and never looked back.
 
Gigantopithecus said:
The last straw with eBay, I was forced to refund $100 to a buyer who was cherry-picking AMD X4s that unlocked to X6s. The buyer send back a different CPU. I filed a report with his local PD and a report with the USPS for mail fraud. Eventually, eBay sent me to a collection agency since I had already drained my PayPal account and they couldn't recoup the $100 from me. I wrote the collection agency a letter disputing the validity of eBay's claim along with copies of the police and USPS reports. I never heard another word from the collection agency, and my credit score was not affected. And for the last two years, eBay's threatening emails have gone straight to my trash inbox. So, while you might lose your ability to sell on eBay, you don't always lose your money. (FWIW, I was a bronze powerseller with 1,000+ successful sales over a five year period. That mattered not to them.)
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It really doesn't. They don't take into account high volume sellers. They already charge almost 12% off the top of the final sale price of anything you sell on ebay. $1000? You now owe $120 to ebay. It's the biggest rip off I have ever seen. I really hope something else comes out that destroys them. Craigslist is close but not national enough.
 
i don't know why craigslist wont implement their own online auction using google payments, no chargebacks and no buyer/seller protection but based on feedback. imo craiglist could easily topple ebay
 
fixedmy7970 said:
i don't know why craigslist wont implement their own online auction using google payments, no chargebacks and no buyer/seller protection but based on feedback. imo craiglist could easily topple ebay
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Because then they would need to implement buyer/seller protection services, and that costs money. And because it costs money, they would have to charge fees, like Ebay. Suddenly it's not a whole lot better than Ebay.

If people want to run their own informal auction, they can. All Craigslist is there to do is to facilitate communication between a buyer and seller, and that costs a whole lot less than an auction system.
 
NickJames said:
And I can tell you exactly what happened to my cousin in this situation. He owed about $2K to paypal and they did fuck all. He sits on 750 credit score 5 years later with no collection reports on his credit. I have gone through paypals bullshit myself and that's why I try to avoid them when possible but their threats have no foundation. They can bitch and moan but in the end they can't touch you if they have no basis for a dispute. My family doesn't don't put up with bullshit so maybe we're just lucky. Also you need to have a good bank that doesn't cave under pressure and will not allow paypal to steal from your account. THEY ARE NOT A BANK NOR FEDERALLY REGULATED COMPANY AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THAT.
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You should read their most recent TOS. It flat out says that if your account balance is in the red they can charge your credit or debit account without your prior authorization to make the account whole.
 
The Lurker said:
You should read their most recent TOS. It flat out says that if your account balance is in the red they can charge your credit or debit account without your prior authorization to make the account whole.
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Yes because TOS are a legally binding contract. No they can not legally take money out of your bank without authorization. If your bank authorizes that then you need a better bank. They can only do refunds without specific authorization because you authorized the original charge. Once you over the 30 day limit for refunds they can no longer legally withdraw from your bank account without your authorization. Bill companies don't take your money when you fall behind, they just cut off your services. Collections can come knocking and try sneaky shit to get you to pay up but they can not walk into your bank and demand them to give them your money. Some of you really need to get knowledge on this subject so you don't get ripped off by shady business practices.
 
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You gave them authorization by accepting the terns. Just like at a hotel, you steal towels they charge the card on file. You have some very naive notions on our rights as consumers vs their rights to fuck us.
 
Disposed said:
You gave them authorization by accepting the terns. Just like at a hotel, you steal towels they charge the card on file. You have some very naive notions on our rights as consumers vs their rights to fuck us.
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Negative, they can not by law take from your bank account without your authorization. You sign a legally binding contract when you check into a hotel giving them access to the card on file, you do not do this with paypal. Again, you don't see bill companies stealing from your account just because your debit card is on file and you missed a payment. And your passive view on this is the reason they continue to fuck us.

Also can you show me where Paypal is authorized to take from your bank account? All I can find is this.

10.2 Reimbursement for Your Liability. In the event that you are liable for any amounts owed to PayPal, PayPal may immediately remove such amounts from your Balance. If you do not have a Balance that is sufficient to cover your liability, your remaining Balance (if any) will be removed, your Account will have negative Balance up to the amount of your liability, and you will be required to immediately add funds to your Balance to eliminate the negative Balance. If you do not do so, PayPal may engage in collection efforts to recover such amounts from you.
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Nowhere in the TOS does it state that they will withdraw from your bank account to cover a negative balance.
 
NickJames said:
Negative, they can not by law take from your bank account without your authorization. Again, you don't see bill companies stealing from your account just because your debit card is on file and you missed a payment. And your passive view on this is the reason they continue to fuck us.
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You gave them the authorization already...

I give up. Keep thinking what you want.
 
There's still a chance op can win. I've had several issues out of hundreds of transactions. One I got screwed over and the other two I managed to win.

The one I got screwed over was when eBay sided with me, not the buyer. But the buyer went ahead and did a chargeback. Paypal told me they have no choice but to get the money from me......even though I won the case.....This was a few years ago.
 
Just want to preface by stating I'm studying to become an Accredited ACH Professional (AAP) and have about 7 years experience in the financial industry. I'm not in a position to give a great deal of legal/financial advice, especially here, but I kinda know my shit. ;) That said...

Paypal uses ACH (Automated Clearing House) to originate debits/credits to financial institutions. These transfers fall under the governance of NACHA's (National ACH Association) rules and regulations. As such, if you receive an unauthorized debit/credit, or wish to revoke a previously authorized payment sent via ACH, then the statute of limitations for returning that EFT is 60 days from its effective date (see R07 and R10 return codes). Basically, if PayPal comes knocking on your account to recoup the negative balance you left, you're not without recourse. Contact your bank/credit union and dispute the transaction within 60 days. As far as I know, there's no recourse for the RDFI (Paypal) to recover the funds at that point, but I'll update this post if I find a rule/reg which proves otherwise.

Regarding Paypal's authorization, as a part of signing up for their service, you are indeed authorizing them to originate ACH payments on your behalf. That doesn't mean you can't revoke an authorization though; this is referred to as a R07 return in the industry.

Here are the relevant snippets I found from Paypal's website:

3.5 Bank Transfers. When you use your bank account as your Payment Method for any transaction or to initiate an Add Funds transaction, you are requesting an electronic transfer from your bank account. For these transactions, PayPal will make electronic transfers via ACH from your bank account in the amount you specify. You agree that such requests constitute your authorization to PayPal to make the transfers. Once you have provided your authorization for the transfer, you will not be able to cancel the electronic transfer. For Pay After Delivery transactions please see Section 3.15. You give PayPal the right to resubmit any ACH debit you authorized that is returned for insufficient or uncollected funds.
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And Negative balances:

5.2 Negative Balances and Multiple Currencies. If your Account has a negative Balance, PayPal may deduct amounts you owe PayPal from money you subsequently add or receive into your Account. If you have multiple currency Balances in your Account and one of the currency Balances becomes negative for any reason, PayPal may set off the negative Balance by using funds you maintain in a different currency Balance. If you have a negative balance in non-U.S. Dollars for a period of 21 Days or longer, PayPal will convert this negative Balance to U.S. Dollars. If you open more than one Account, PayPal may set off the negative Balance in one Account by using any Balance that you maintain in your other Account(s). In the event that a negative Balance is offset by PayPal pursuant to this paragraph, it may be bundled with another debit coming out of your Account.
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5.2 is the key part. They don't say anything about debit or bank accounts. Funds added would mean if you try making another transaction through paypal, they will intercept the funds first to pay off the debt. Essentially you can tell paypal to bug off, doesn't mean they won't stop bugging you. Also expect ebay to terminate your account as well.
 
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Agreed. Although the OP will likely "lose" in the claims process, I find it unlikely that the buyer/PayPal will ultimately con him out of the cash. Call up the bank and simply ask to return an authorized debit to the account.
 
Well, the thread got quite a bit more interesting since other day. I really appreciate all of the responses and the support. The truth is I could have done this better. The key as one of the first posters to reply pointed out was that I did not specify that the UPC code was removed. While this may or may not be grounds for the sale to be considered invalid, it may have confused and/or alarmed the buyer.

Don't get me wrong I still think he's scummy based on the following: he put his first bid in on the item about 6 seconds before close and his second bid won with 2 seconds to spare. He never left feedback, never contacted me, and then opened claim on last possible day.

Yesterday he left me a response on the claim saying he had messaged Asus and would get back when they validate the serial number (my words as his are barely intelligible).

I have a hope this will go away but it's a 50/50 feeling. At this point, after reading the Violin story above... I've lost interest almost completely except that I get irritated when he sends me responses. I feel obligated to answer them generally so it's almost a form of harassment.

I haven't decided where to move my funds to vis-a-vis checking and savings. Bank of America is convenient and if this blows over I'll probably go back there, but I was happy enough to close that account to avoid any possible issues (since I don't know at all what is really possible as far as forced refund given a loss of this claim). BoA is frankly not much better than ebay/paypal when it comes to being shady.
 
Oh god.. BOA. Yeap not much you can do, they collapse like a Soufflé under pressure.
 
This is why I don't use ebay. I stick to craiglist and selling items on other places.
 
If they buyer decides to contact their credit card company and do a charge back, you will be screwed. Ebay and Paypal will come back to you for the money and you won't get your item back either. They do this all the time, even after finding in favor of the seller for the same item.

Dustins said:
I recently had someone do this to me as well but with a cell phone. I am happy to report ebay sided with me, thankfully.
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blackbeasst said:
if you have a negative balance they won't allow you to add or delete bank accounts
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If you've used Paypal within 30 days they won't allow you to remove these things. Recently, this limitation was removed for me and I was able to get the bank account and credit cards off my Paypal account. That allowed me to open back up the same account I had closed instead of getting a whole new bank account. Received replacement credit cards in the mail already for the one paypal had. There is also a way to add funds to your paypal account without a bank account. You can do a "green dot" moneypak and it will instantly go to paypal balance. Still, if you want to use that paypal balance to make a purchase at Newegg or something you will need to link a backup source (like a credit card). I'm much less concerned about Paypal having a CC number for me than I am them having my bank account. In this case, it's a secured card with a tiny credit limit anyway, not a whole lot they can do with it.

Can you imagine if we had debters prisons like they did in David Copperfield's England? They could stop the war on drugs and the prison industry would go humming right along.

I've decided this guy is either going to wait til the last day possible and then escalate the case or he's got proof that the item was legit since he told me he contacted Asus and it will autoclose. Most likely he will escalate as the deadline draws near. I expect he will say the serial number of the card was already registered or something like that. Maybe not. Don't care much really. Either way not taking unreasonable chances by using eBay anymore. It's only a question of if I'll be able to use Paypal in the future.
 
Stop answering the buyer as you may talk yourself into a corner. CALL EBAY and talk to them.

You have 2 options
1. Tell buyer to return it. If they don't actually go through with the return, they lose. If they do go through with it and the item is different do what you can but expect to refund the money

2. Wait until it can be sent up to a dispute. MAKE SURE you dispute it before they do and then CALL EBAY as soon as you send up the dispute. DO NOT let them figure it out without you talking to them on the phone. Every dispute I've had with them was won in my favor over the phone.

Use whatever you can against the buyer. Use that OC thing against them saying they used the item in a manor it was not intended. Whatever it takes. Use their words against them.

the last dispute I went through Paypal specifically told me that if the case is closed in my favor and the buyer does a CC charge back that you are covered. If that is true I don't know or if that is some new rule.
 
I did call eBay. They don't have anything to say about it as it's just a claim and hasn't been escalated. Ignoring the buyer's legitimate questions seems like a good way to look shady.

I have a lot more than the 2 options you mapped out for me.

1. I don't want the item back. Period. That's why it was sold with "no returns" on the auction.

2. What is this? Why would I dispute my own sale? It's been sitting at the point where the buyer has the option to escalate for more than a week now. There's no option for me to dispute the claim... As for winning disputes with eBay over the phone--maybe you have a different 1-800 number for eBay than I do. That's not how it works as far as I can tell.

3. I don't have to refund anybody any money and eBay can't force me to because they no longer have access to my bank account.

4. I could go to the place where this person works and confront them personally. I could call them at odd hours of the night and harass them, but since they haven't done that to me, I'm treating the buyer with all due respect, including answering their stupid questions, which thankfully ended a week ago when he said he was contacting Asus to verify the serial number on the card.

Edit:mad:BigBacon, after rereading your response with a cooler head I've decided to call eBay about this on Monday if the buyer hasn't escalated by then. If for no other reason than your advice seems sound and I may just not have understood it correctly. I have double-checked that there is no way for me to dispute his claim through the website, however. It seems like it is up to the buyer to escalate the case from here, if he wants. I assumed he would escalate immediately and now I begin to wonder if the buyer was simply confused by the missing UPC code and this will have been one of those cases that eBay can say "see? communication solved the problem."
 
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Last update/End of Poll

Case CLOSED

I won.

I took BigBacon's level-headed advice (and the guy clearly knows his shit). If you persist on the phone you can get people that are specifically able to close cases for you once the escalation period has begun. As far as I know there's no way to do it the lazy way through the website. Also, the wait times for eBay phone csrs is surprisingly short in my experience, maybe this depends on your issue code.

The fact that the buyer filed this claim on day 44 with no prior communication pretty much automatically put the weight of the case on my behalf (according to the guy who seemed to be deciding on the case) so it's good I didn't cave and give a refund or accept the product back, though I can understand that being good business practice, too. In the end I feel a little better about seller protection but not a lot. I'm still far more interested in the F/S/T forum here at [H] than I am in eBay from any perspective.

Just want to say thanks for all the advice and input. I have come to really respect the opinions and facts that I am finding here at [H], as a genuine new member I didn't have any idea what I was getting into when I stumbled on this site looking for info on prime95v28.1 3 months ago. Now I have a completely different system almost--based mostly on recommendations from hardforum--and partly supplied directly from members here. Bandwagon behavior perhaps, but I'm happier with my computer than I've ever been, and I feel that it's entirely possible I would have messed that case up and lost it ("talking myself into a corner", as one reply rightly pointed out) if I had not made this thread. :eek:
 
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