WiFi 7 isn't supported on Windows 10

Sycraft said:
Her laptop is on 22.04 LTS because it is new but her desktop is still on 16, or maybe earlier, I'd have to check.
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DukenukemX said:
Considering she's using 22.04 as well as (I'm assuming) 16.04, I would say it's laziness. I tend to wait to upgrade as well, but only because I don't want to put in the work. Though I don't wait years to upgrade. Also, not upgrading Linux isn't the same as not upgrading Windows. Even though 16.04 hasn't been supported for years, you can still update parts of the OS without Ubuntu. Even though updating the kernel is frowned upon, you can still do it.
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Ubuntu 16.04 LTS is has extended support until Q1 2026, so assuming that is in use I don't see the issue.
I agree with DukenukemX that any branch of Linux is not the same as Windows in terms of upgrade cycles, and Windows becoming so fragmented with broken drivers (depending on the device/platform) is more of a pain than I would like to admit to at this point.

Even driver developers are starting to abandon and/or second-tier Windows 10 in favor of Windows 11, despite claiming full support for the latest releases of Windows 10.
The slingshot effect of driver support that has occurred with the Windows 10-to-11 transition has become a more massive pain in the ass in enterprise than any Linux support/versioning issue I have seen, thus negating one of the biggest advantages that Windows tended to have over Linux.

Microsoft also recommends a tiertary test environment for pushing updates back in 2020, which was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for proving what hot garbage Windows has become by no less than Microsoft itself. :meh:
For a home environment, I agree with Lakados that it isn't a big deal, but in enterprise it certainly has ballooned into one in recent years.


DukenukemX said:
It's not like Microsoft hasn't done this in the past. No DX10 for Windows XP for example. No DX12 for Windows 7, unless you play World of Warcraft. It sounds plausible considering Microsoft's history. If it isn't true, then good on Microsoft. If it's true, then typical Microsoft.
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Agreed, lets not allow for revisionist history on exactly events like this.
I remember when Microsoft did this in Q1 2007 for DX10, and their "killer app" for it at the time was Halo 2 DX10 Edition, which looked exactly the same side-by-side to the DX9 version.

Vista may have been a steaming turd, but we have to remember where that steaming turd was produced from. :hungover:
 
Red Falcon said:
Even driver developers are starting to abandon and/or second-tier Windows 10 in favor of Windows 11, despite claiming full support for the latest releases of Windows 10.
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This is kind of a silly statement when you take into account the the fact that in 99% of cases Windows 10 and Windows 11 drivers are the same and fully interchangeable.
 
GotNoRice said:
This is kind of a silly statement when you take into account the the fact that in 99% of cases Windows 10 and Windows 11 drivers are the same and fully interchangeable.
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Hence why I put that it depends on the device/platform.
In some cases yes, and in other cases drivers that work for Windows 10 21H2 simply break with Windows 10 22H2, let alone Windows 11.

You probably won't see this in a home environment, but I have seen it far more than I would like in enterprise at this point over the last few years.
It isn't getting any better, either.
 
Lakados said:
From an enterprise standpoint, 10 shits the bed when dealing with too many things 11 fixes, and 11 plays nicer with non-Microsoft web services.
So we are making the change for what amounts to an easier time managing things and better interoperability between O365, Google, Apple, and Amazon services.
But for home meh. What ever keeps your stuff working.
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people actually use Office365? they really pay, every year, for the same office program they've been using for the past 15+ years which is really the same as the one before that only with a screen eating "ribbon"? :smh:

now i know there are a lot of dumb people out there, but you're gonna come on here and try to convince us google apple and amazon work better on 11? i guess thats a joke right? sarcasm? or what usually works to convince people to spend money and pay you to upgrade them to a worse OS? because i think most of us here know that that's a load of horse sh__.
 
d3athf1sh said:
people actually use Office365? they really pay, every year, for the same office program they've been using for the past 15+ years which is really the same as the one before that only with a screen eating "ribbon"? :smh:

now i know there are a lot of dumb people out there, but you're gonna come on here and try to convince us google apple and amazon work better on 11? i guess thats a joke right? sarcasm? or what usually works to convince people to spend money and pay you to upgrade them to a worse OS? because i think most of us here know that that's a load of horse sh__.
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You can’t be serious…

Looking for the /sarcasm tags and not finding them so I’m assuming this post is just one long typo.

Revise it a little and resubmit.
 
Format _C: said:
Damn and I'm still on 802.11 AC oh excuse me WiFi 5 LoL
I wish DD-WRT can get with the program as they don't support WiFi 6(E)
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Didn't most of the core team behind that project move to a different fork a few years back?
 
d3athf1sh said:
people actually use Office365?
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Yes. Microsoft's been pushing it for years: "you always have the latest version", and IIRC it starts at something low like $5/mo/seat, so businesses don't have to budget upgrades. Now, with ransomware being a serious concern, and O365 being tied to Microsoft 365, the temptation to let Microsoft deal with safety is a big driver. My company dodged a ransomware attack a couple of years ago--what I was told is someone happened to be in the office on a weekend, apparently when the network was infiltrated, saw something weird, and ripped cords out of the wall. I dunno how true that actually is, but the company migrated to M365 just a couple of months later. By contrast, a couple of our clients who got hit with ransomware were not quite crippled for half a year, and had to do stuff like stand up an air-gapped server to run the payroll software.
 
1_rick said:
Yes. Microsoft's been pushing it for years: "you always have the latest version", and IIRC it starts at something low like $5/mo/seat, so businesses don't have to budget upgrades. Now, with ransomware being a serious concern, and O365 being tied to Microsoft 365, the temptation to let Microsoft deal with safety is a big driver. My company dodged a ransomware attack a couple of years ago--what I was told is someone happened to be in the office on a weekend, apparently when the network was infiltrated, saw something weird, and ripped cords out of the wall. I dunno how true that actually is, but the company migrated to M365 just a couple of months later. By contrast, a couple of our clients who got hit with ransomware were not quite crippled for half a year, and had to do stuff like stand up an air-gapped server to run the payroll software.
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Toss in Exchange, SharePoint, OneDrive, PowerBI, and the enhanced security suites that come with it and I can say with 100% certainty that attempting to duplicate the functionality with other suites would cost a hell of a lot more than I’m paying Microsoft for.
 
Lakados said:
Toss in Exchange, SharePoint, OneDrive, PowerBI, and the enhanced security suites that come with it and I can say with 100% certainty that attempting to duplicate the functionality with other suites would cost a hell of a lot more than I’m paying Microsoft for.
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Yeah, the $20/mo/user for E3 is a pretty solid value and it means I don’t have to maintain Exchange on prem. Stood up a simple Linux server to serve as a SMTP relay for our MFPs and various in-house notification stuff to provide a single endpoint that goes outbound via Mimecast to our O365 tenant.
 
d3athf1sh said:
people actually use Office365? they really pay, every year, for the same office program they've been using for the past 15+ years which is really the same as the one before that only with a screen eating "ribbon"? :smh:
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Most businesses do, yes, even Microsoft's competitors. It is far and away the standard for business e-mail and one of the reasons that MS's cloud services are as big as they are (Azure is the second largest, behind AWS). If you work for a big company, real good chance they are going to use Office365.
 
GotNoRice said:
There is still to this day no actual documented evidence that WiFi 7 won't work on Windows 10. This entire thread was started based on a click-bait article which made a bunch of assumptions based on a random picture.
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They've already opted to not backport WiFi 6e support to Win10. WiFi 7 not happening should be fully expected.
 
LodeRunner said:
Yeah, the $20/mo/user for E3 is a pretty solid value and it means I don’t have to maintain Exchange on prem. Stood up a simple Linux server to serve as a SMTP relay for our MFPs and various in-house notification stuff to provide a single endpoint that goes outbound via Mimecast to our O365 tenant.
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Yeah I am a combo of A5 and A3, with things like copiers, and services on A1. But I still run a Hybrid environment, our legacy stuff will not let me move over to a full AzureAD base, and that is likely to be true for a long while still, as even the new software doesn't seem to be working in that direction, well I say new I swear they started on it a good 8 years ago...
 
Sycraft said:
LOL to that, don't think you've met many Linux users. Some of them can be stick in the mud to a level I never though possible. My GF is a Linux developer and getting her to upgrade her OS is like pulling teeth. "It is working I don't want to break it," is the common answer. Her laptop is on 22.04 LTS because it is new but her desktop is still on 16, or maybe earlier, I'd have to check.

Network people also tend to be really bad, the number of switches running code from 8 years ago is staggering.

Some people are just stick-in-the-mud when it comes to upgrading.
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Depending on what she does in Linux, I can actually understand her not wanting to upgrade.

For casual computer usage, you might as well stay current with Linux distros, including new kernels, but then you run into weird hardware edge cases where things break when you least expect it.

Case in point: Datapath VisionRGB capture card drivers. Yeah, they have Linux drivers, updated as recently as July 2023, but were only tested against LTS distros with kernel 5.15 at the latest. Guess who learned the hard way that a bunch of API calls related to PCI DMA access just got changed in 5.18 and the drivers will not compile and install properly unless you go through all that source code and find/replace all of the API calls in question? (Then there's how the card goes invisible again every time there's a kernel update, so I gotta manually reinstall the drivers. I never had to deal with that crap when using the card in Windows! Got me contemplating IOMMU passthrough into a Windows VM just for ease of use.)

Then there's setting up all the dependencies, some of which also just change stuff in later versions and make programs not compile as a result. I think I get why Flatpak and Snap are such a thing now - you get the dependencies included that a given version of the app is confirmed to work with, all sandboxed so that if a different app needs the same dependency but a different version, it won't conflict.

Granted, I'm not a developer by any stretch, and I'd hope that part of the job of a typical Linux dev is to keep up with all the subtle changes so end users like me don't get frustrated as hell trying to make stuff work on later OS versions.
 
NamelessPFG said:
For casual computer usage, you might as well stay current with Linux distros, including new kernels, but then you run into weird hardware edge cases where things break when you least expect it.
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Hardware support is less of an issue since you've already installed the OS and assumed to be working. Newer laptops like the Ryzen mobile 4000 series needs a newer kernel.
Then there's setting up all the dependencies, some of which also just change stuff in later versions and make programs not compile as a result. I think I get why Flatpak and Snap are such a thing now - you get the dependencies included that a given version of the app is confirmed to work with, all sandboxed so that if a different app needs the same dependency but a different version, it won't conflict.
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I find that the older the Linux OS gets, the harder it is to run newer software. So you end up in dependency hell, especially with Ubuntu who doesn't update their dependencies unless you update the OS. Things like AppImage and Flatpak are great for avoiding this problem, which I use more of nowadays. Something that Linus Torvalds thought Valve would fix and he's right.
 
DukenukemX said:
Odd timing, but Microsoft plans to remove Word from Windows in future Windows updates. Microsoft does recommend that you use Microsoft Word, you know the paid product. This is why people don't like to upgrade Windows, because at some point Microsoft does something like this. This reminds me of when they wanted to remove MS Paint.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/deprecated-features
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wordpad, not word. two different things, neither on topic...
 
pendragon1 said:
wordpad, not word. two different things,
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To be honest, Microsoft calls all their word processors... word.
neither on topic...
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It's on topic because people want to know why others won't upgrade to Windows 11. This is just one recent example that shows the history that is Windows updates.
 
DukenukemX said:
To be honest, Microsoft calls all their word processors... word.

It's on topic because people want to know why others won't upgrade to Windows 11. This is just one recent example that shows the history that is Windows updates.
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Wordpad is hot garbage, Notepad is a more useful editor than it ever has been or ever will be, and Wordpad's continued existence only serves to confuse and aggravate anybody who has accidentally launched it when opening a document.
 
DukenukemX said:
Odd timing, but Microsoft plans to remove Word from Windows in future Windows updates. Microsoft does recommend that you use Microsoft Word, you know the paid product. This is why people don't like to upgrade Windows, because at some point Microsoft does something like this. This reminds me of when they wanted to remove MS Paint.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/deprecated-features
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I don't know that a weaker strawman argument could be made. Who uses Wordpad for anything? It's a relic with virtually no purpose other than a security risk.
 
pendragon1 said:
topic is wifi 7 not being supported in 10.
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Topic is about WiFi 7 not coming to Windows 10... because some people don't want to upgrade to Windows 11. Why would anyone not wanna upgrade to Windows 11? It's not like Microsoft has a history of making unwanted changes to their OS's. That's sarcasm by the way.

Incarnate said:
I don't know that a weaker strawman argument could be made. Who uses Wordpad for anything? It's a relic with virtually no purpose other than a security risk.
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I used it all the time when I used Windows, but that's not the point. Rather than improving it or just keeping it, they decided to remove it. You wanna know why people kept Windows XP, Windows 7, and now Windows 10 for such a long time? With every other OS you don't see wide spread people refusing to upgrade, especially when the upgrade is free. Windows 10 is over 70% of the Windows OS market share. Good luck getting wide spread adoption of WiFi 7 if it's not available to Windows 10.
 
DukenukemX said:
Topic is about WiFi 7 not coming to Windows 10... because some people don't want to upgrade to Windows 11. Why would anyone not wanna upgrade to Windows 11? It's not like Microsoft has a history of making unwanted changes to their OS's. That's sarcasm by the way.
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Outside of the IT and enthusiast communities, no one in Windows-land jumps major versions for kicks. Enterprises migrate when they have a business case for it. Everyone else gets used to whatever came with their machine. That's largely how it's always been.

In the mind of the average person, a new OS version isn't something to be excited for. It's a hassle they're going to have to get used to. It's part of the cost of buying a new system. (With the exception of Apple users. Clearly, Apple's doing something right...)

DukenukemX said:
I used it all the time when I used Windows, but that's not the point. Rather than improving it or just keeping it, they decided to remove it.
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Tell me you're a Linux evangelist without telling me...

DukenukemX said:
You wanna know why people kept Windows XP, Windows 7, and now Windows 10 for such a long time? With every other OS you don't see wide spread people refusing to upgrade, especially when the upgrade is free. Windows 10 is over 70% of the Windows OS market share.
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They stayed on the old versions for a long time because they stayed on the old computers for a long time. And people who aren't on the gaming hardware treadmill are staying longer every year.

When 9x was a going concern, computers felt dated in three years. With XP, it was more like five. Now? The average Joe could be rocking a Sandy Bridge and still be perfectly fine with it. Only reason that Sandy Bridge would've made the leap to Win10 is because MS was particularly loud when they dropped Win7 support.

DukenukemX said:
Good luck getting wide spread adoption of WiFi 7 if it's not available to Windows 10.
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The percentage of the population who opt to install hardware upgrades is vanishingly small. Probably worse than the percentages on OS upgraders, now that MS doesn't charge for them.

Most people will buy a new computer when they need one, and will use whatever OS and network hardware it comes with. They will neither know nor care which WiFi standard their Netflix is traversing.
 
Lakados said:
Personally, I am not sure who would be purchasing a new device with new hardware and then trying to downgrade to Windows 10, and I don't know many people who would go through the trouble of replacing the WiFi module in their existing Win 10 devices to a WiFi 7 one.
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Things break. I've had add-on cards die before. It's pretty easy to understand that if your laptop wifi card died you would replace it with a new one... not much point of having a laptop without wifi.... and hey... if I'm going to replace it, might as well add the best one, it's not like it's any harder to physically slot in a wifi 7 card vs a wifi 6 one...
 
XenIneX said:
Tell me you're a Linux evangelist without telling me...
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I didn't say I wasn't.
They stayed on the old versions for a long time because they stayed on the old computers for a long time. And people who aren't on the gaming hardware treadmill are staying longer every year.
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Since the introduction of Windows 10 it's hard not to get Windows to update itself. That means a lot of people are avoiding the free upgrade to Windows 11, intentionally. Lots of people would wake up one day and find their PC had Windows 10 installed. Because of the requirement of TPM and Secure boot, Microsoft has made it harder for themselves to push users to upgrade. That means WiFi 7's adoption is entirely dependent on Windows 11's adoption, assuming that information is true. They did this with DirectX10, limiting it to Vista. We skipped over DX10 in favor of DX11, because of how few people adopted Vista. Games either supported DX9 or DX11.
 
1_rick said:
Yes. Microsoft's been pushing it for years: "you always have the latest version", and IIRC it starts at something low like $5/mo/seat, so businesses don't have to budget upgrades. Now, with ransomware being a serious concern, and O365 being tied to Microsoft 365, the temptation to let Microsoft deal with safety is a big driver. My company dodged a ransomware attack a couple of years ago--what I was told is someone happened to be in the office on a weekend, apparently when the network was infiltrated, saw something weird, and ripped cords out of the wall. I dunno how true that actually is, but the company migrated to M365 just a couple of months later. By contrast, a couple of our clients who got hit with ransomware were not quite crippled for half a year, and had to do stuff like stand up an air-gapped server to run the payroll software.
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it's still retarded if you ask me. what can you do with latest version of microsoft word or excel that you couldn't do 20 years ago? i mean i understand why microsoft pushes it, but i don't understands why anyone would continually pay it. it's like cable modems, after a year you've already saved a good amount of money and after that it's free. my last one before the one i have now lasted over 10 years. and the one i got now is prob 4 years at this point when if you rent and pay $15 a month X 10 years is $1800 it's a rip off. just like O365 is.

but you know what's even funnier, to me, is that with a free hotmail (outlook) account, you can use office for free! it's been part of the service for 10+ years now
 
d3athf1sh said:
it's still retarded if you ask me. what can you do with latest version of microsoft word or excel that you couldn't do 20 years ago? i mean i understand why microsoft pushes it, but i don't understands why anyone would continually pay it. it's like cable modems, after a year you've already saved a good amount of money and after that it's free. my last one before the one i have now lasted over 10 years. and the one i got now is prob 4 years at this point when if you rent and pay $15 a month X 10 years is $1800 it's a rip off. just like O365 is.

but you know what's even funnier, to me, is that with a free hotmail (outlook) account, you can use office for free! it's been part of the service for 10+ years now
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It works fine until your support group is stuck trying to troubleshoot 6 different versions of office across that decade, manage all the activation keys, and deal with MS activation (which BTW is now linked to a MS account, it’s not just put in product key and go anymore for the non VLSC/O365 editions).

Corporate use and considerations are different than home or even small offices. I’m personally still using Office 2013. I should probably look at upgrading, there’s bound to be CVEs for it MS hasn’t fixed, but at home I practically never receive documents, I produce them.
 
d3athf1sh said:
what can you do with latest version of microsoft word or excel that you couldn't do 20 years ago?
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Provide Microsoft a constant revenue stream, of course.

Having said that, the Ribbon, while controversial, is actually really nice in the way it makes it so that most functions are accessed the same way, instead of remembering whether it's on the toolbar, or a menu, or a side panel, etc.
 
1_rick said:
Provide Microsoft a constant revenue stream, of course.

Having said that, the Ribbon, while controversial, is actually really nice in the way it makes it so that most functions are accessed the same way, instead of remembering whether it's on the toolbar, or a menu, or a side panel, etc.
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There is also much better version control and document recovery options in 365, as well as vastly improved over share and encryption options.

Before the change I can’t express how often I was dealing with pulling versions of a document from a backup because somebody deleted all of page 9, or helping somebody recover a document because their 200 page power point crashed and now the last 4h of work was gone and the document wasn’t opening any more.

Now you can sensibly see who made what changes and when, roll them back tag a file as a version to keep revision history.

And no more crappy “encryption” with a password of 1234, but proper ones based on AD permission groups so even if that file gets saved to a USB key and lost good luck opening it. You can also trigger them to phone home so you know where it’s being accessed from.
 
Did you see they are going to molest notepad too? They are adding tabs. file explorer too.

The only reason to add tabs to notepad and explorer is if you are one of those Neanderthals who runs every program maximized. There's a reason its called WINDOWS, people!!!!
 
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Wat said:
Did you see they are going to molest notepad too? They are adding tabs. file explorer too.

The only reason to add tabs to notepad and explorer is if you are one of those Neanderthals who runs every program maximized. There's a reason its called WINDOWS, people!!!!
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Tabbos 12 from Microsoft
 
NamelessPFG said:
Then there's setting up all the dependencies, some of which also just change stuff in later versions and make programs not compile as a result. I think I get why Flatpak and Snap are such a thing now - you get the dependencies included that a given version of the app is confirmed to work with, all sandboxed so that if a different app needs the same dependency but a different version, it won't conflict.
Click to expand...
I run only LTS releases, I've got a number of PPA's added, I game under Linux and use it for the daily running of my business, and I haven't experienced a dependency issue in a good 5 years. Like Windows, Linux is always improving all the time, and package managers are vastly better than they used to be.
 
Wat said:
They are adding tabs. file explorer too.
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1694177994130.png

already got it on insider, its not that bad...
 
Wat said:
Did you see they are going to molest notepad too? They are adding tabs. file explorer too.
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Meh. I've been using the tabs for a while now. It's kind of nice to have one unmaximized Notepad window with multiple tabs.

With Explorer the issues's a bit less clear, but it's not bad. You can actually drag and drop files from one tab to another by holding the drag over a second tab. This is nice because you don't have to reposition the windows before beginning a drag and drop operation.
 
1_rick said:
Meh. I've been using the tabs for a while now. It's kind of nice to have one unmaximized Notepad window with multiple tabs.

With Explorer the issues's a bit less clear, but it's not bad. You can actually drag and drop files from one tab to another by holding the drag over a second tab. This is nice because you don't have to reposition the windows before beginning a drag and drop operation.
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I don’t know about maximized, but if you are using the screen subsections in windows 10 or 11 where you can hover over the maximize screen menu and have it show you the sub sections it makes things way easier. So not full screen exactly but yeah.

It’s a weird Friday and my brain is at best working at 25% so apologies if I am unclear.
 
Lakados said:
I don’t know about maximized, but if you are using the screen subsections in windows 10 or 11 where you can hover over the maximize screen menu and have it show you the sub sections it makes things way easier. So not full screen exactly but yeah.

It’s a weird Friday and my brain is at best working at 25% so apologies if I am unclear.
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I think you're thinking of what was originally called Aero Snap, which was expanded at some point. If you hover over the maximize/restore button in a window (maximized or un) it'll show you a set of options to force tiling (e.g. force this window to take up the left half of the monitor, and then put all the other windows in the rest of the display). To be clear, I was talking about moving info from one tab in File Explorer to another--which is similar to the older functionality where you could grab a file, drag it down to the Explorer icon on the taskbar and hover on it, and Windows would pop up thumbnails of all the active Explorer windows, and if you moved to hover over one of them, it'd restore that window so you could drop the dragged files onto the new window. The new method, with tabs, is a bit easier. Oddly, the old way still works, *and*--I never tried this before--you can do stuff like select text from Notepad and drop it into the search bar at the top of the Curseforge app when you're on the modpack search screen. (I tried dropping onto the Steam window's search box in the library, but that's not a drop target. The search box on the Store page is, though. Obviously this is of limited/situational use, and, notably, you CANNOT drag-drop text between tabs in Notepad. Boo, Microsoft. I bet they'd've gotten that right ten years ago.)
 
Mazzspeed said:
Dolphin file explorer under KDE has had such functionality for years now, about time Windows caught up.

View attachment 597274
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Caja has also had it for years under Debian/Ubuntu distros as well.
It is amazing how long it has taken Microsoft to catch up to features that have been around since the 2000s for many other operating systems.

Great iNoVaTiOn Microsoft! :wacky:
 
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