WidowPC WidowFX Evaluation @ [H]

[magoo]

Another very complete review.
Its too bad for the widow pc that it came behind such a stellar review from Maingear.
But thats what this is all about, comparison/contrast.
Its really a shame that widow advertises such a high quality and then sends you out a unit with a ding, packaged like an order from Joes pack and ship.
The quality or lack thereof compares to the baseline Dell dimension.
I relly also have to say Id be ashamed to misrepresent my product like widow did......a supposed boutique machine, assembled and shipped from a contract builder????
I know that Dell and alot of others are assembled in another country.....but i wouldnt expect this of a boutique builder.
As far a cable management, Alienware also now charges 99 dollars for the same plus some "thermal management" sort of a sign of the times that higher prices rarely get any "perks" anymore.......except when you look at the Maingear review.
Again.....an excellent review.

 

[FrgMstr]

Thanks for your quick response Kyle.

You may recall an article you wrote for CPU magazine where you criticized ATI for not making available new released products in conjunction with their paper release. Specifically you said that "of course, once you get hip deep in press releases that mean little if anything, they sort of lose their impact"... The same applies here Kyle; once you're knee deep in overly critical reviews and articles bashing companies like ATI and WidowPC “that mean little if anything, they sort of lose their impact."

Now, this is not to say that I do not agree with all your reviewing methodologies. Like I said I applaud that you have taken it upon yourselves to evaluate the customer support of companies, such as WidowPC, to reveal these “naked truths.” I’m sure we can both agree that very few publications take the time to do so. However, lately I have often felt that the weight you give such assessments is somewhat presumptuous and somehow subtracts from the credibility of your overall assessments. You presume that readers care about more about sticky packing-tape residue, which I’m sure can be cleaned, over the performance of a system that they may purchase?

I’m my humble opinion, if you buy a system that performs to expectations and you give it a 9/10 for performance, it is difficult to justify such a low overall score. While you were not happy with their company policies, in the end WidowPC supplied you with a system that performed particularly well; as advertised. This is a point that I think you failed to highlight in the conclusions of your report.

There are tons of interesting aspects of this industry that will always make fantastic journalistic material. Why is it not possible that your publication focus on these rather than sticky residue left over by packing tape?

But thank you for letting me vent my frustrations openly. Many forums would have quickly banned me after my displays. Furthermore, after all my negative comments I do thank you for providing me with a constant supply of interesting (and more importantly free) reading material over the past year or so.

Again, thanks for your thoughts. I stand firmly behind our testing methodologies. What is not important to you, is important to others and vice versa. So we do our best to look at the big picture the was we see best fit. Bottom line, your mileage may vary.

Also, let me add this. I do not expect everyone to agree with our bottom line score. This is one of the reasons that we have broken out the categories the way we have. Obviously, WidowPC scored very highly in some categories. If those categories are 99% of what is important to you in a PC build, then by all means, I think we have given you enough information to make a decision of your own. That said, others may heavily weigh getting clean wiring, a case with no dents, and RMA times that were committed to.

Please keep in mind, that these machines we are evaluating are really not meant to be purchased by what is now the mainstream H reader. This content will be broken off onto its own website soon so as to distance the two markets from each other. But as I mentioned earlier, the entire program was born from my needs as an enthusiast that did not want to build and support my entire group of family and friends, and I simply wanted to know where to send them to buy a good box.....and I finally snapped that telling them to go to Dell might not be their best option anymore.

So again, while you may not agree with our overall scoring, I think we give you enough facts about our experience to properly mold your own decision.

 

[kumquat]

I’m my humble opinion, if you buy a system that performs to expectations and you give it a 9/10 for performance, it is difficult to justify such a low overall score.

Just to add my two cents as a user, consider this analogy.

If I buy a BMW M3, and it goes from 0 to 60 in under 5 seconds, as advertised, then its performance rating in my review will be high.

However, if I take delivery from the local BMW dealer for this $50,000 car that has been advertised as the ultimate driving machine and a premium vehicle, and there's a ding in the hood, it has the wrong [quite inferior] stereo system, the wrong [equivalent] navigation system, and no BMW documentation whatsoever, I'm going to give that BMW dealer a very, very low overall rating. The rating will go down further if I talk to a service technician at the dealer's garage and he flat out lies to me about the components in my car because he doesn't know any better. It will go down further if the owner of the dealership assures me that the vehicle will be put on the top of the list for a brake job and will be done the next day, but the car doesn't go into his garage for two full days.

Performance is not everything when you advertise yourself as a premium PC vendor.

The presentation, delivery, support, and assembly on this PC were absolute *shit*. The low rating is, in the humble opinion of this user, very justified.

 

[magoo]

In addition, to tompson there;these reviews are NOT loosing their impact at all. I have to say that the [H]ard reviews are fair,technically well done,and very complete. No fluff, no excuses, and the authors go out of their way to give all the companies the benefit of the doubt.
Like my wife always says.....you cant spit polish a turd.

If you dont happen to like fair,objective opinion then simply dont read the reviews. This site has the most objective, indepth consumer pc reviews I've had the pleasure to read. The description using the BWM is very fitting......you know, walking the walk,etc.

I have to agree that in this case the WidowPC couldnt stand up to its advertised standards in the least.......especially when compared side by side to a Maingear PC that was 800 dollars or so less. You arent buying just another computer......anyone can give you these components and performance.....you are buying PRODUCTS and SERVICE....and both in this case were sub-par ("Porsche".....not even ).
The quality,care,and attention to detail ARE very important to me, especially when I spend 2500 dollars.....in that regard, yes I care about tape stuck to the case, a dent in the top, not being supplied with advertised components, and the word of the owner.....this is not good. So your point about performance is rather shallow.......and the authors DID discuss this in their review.
just a humble opinion.

 

[[Spectre]]

Another change we're going to implement is a change in power supply brands. I'd like your suggestions for the brand we standardize on. As the company grows, we've seen the need for standardization in the preconfigured systems more and more.

That is going to depend on your exact preconfigured system (as an Example the current Antec NeoHE while a very good PSU has some unusual incompatibility with Asus boards which you use). If you are interested in discussing such an approach feel free to make a thread in the PSU forum here.....I can gaurentee personally that you will get some good input

 

[The Bryophyte]

As far as the request for PSU recommendations goes, I would recommend Antec. Though there was a quirky incompatibility noted earlier, I find that Antec is a great company to deal with as a system builder. Should you get some DOA PSUs from them, they actually do respond to your RMA requests. Also, I have never had one come up short in terms of the power it's pushing out, though I am very careful to choose those the should be able to handle the load.

 

[msny]

I suppose we were too pre-occupied with getting the machine to function. It definitely would have been a good thing to bring up. At the time, we were much more interested in the PSU and video card issues.

Chris may have talked to Josh about it, but I'll leave him to comment on that if he did.

First, I appreciate the Joshua has posted his thoughts here and that there willing and able to make changes. A lot of people would have been so offended by the review that they would have either a) not responded at all b) refute the entire story or c)threaten a lawsuit

But for me this (quote) would have been enough to ask for a complete system replacement at this point. It is such an obvious sign that quality control steps were lacking. This seems to me the issue. When you build trust, people will trust you, this is earned not with words but in deed.

How could one trust the hardware inside was not also damaged even if not visibily ?

 

[magoo]

I just went back and read the CEOs comments.
I appreciate your candor and respect your desire to put out a good product.

But my Mom always said.....trust no one, assume nothing, and check and double check things yourself that you are responsible for. Its really good advice. I cant get over how you would let a contractor build and send out "your product" and be proud of this particular piece. Especially given what you talk about on your site. You ooze pride in workmanship, then .......well. And yes, the author was legimate in his feelings that your salesman/website misrepresented the facts, and that would tarnish my viewpoint considerably.
Another momism: you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Good luck in the future. Your desire is genuine, that is obvious.

 

[jahcs]

Thanks for coming to the forums Joshua. Your candor is appreciated. The goals of your company are admirable and, more importantly, needed.

Tompson, there is a difference between a "good" review and an "honest" review. An honest review is better for the reader.


One thing that keeps bothering me is the references to this being a WidowPC. The PC appears to have come from Alvio. Is WidowPC just a storefront for Alvio? Is WidowPC subcontracting with Alvio? Does WidowPC build computers in-house, do Alvio PCs go to the WidowPC offices for QA, do they shortstop Alvio PCs in-house to check for quality, or do they rely solely on Alvio's QA program?

 

[brendon2020]

great review,
i understand why people would like to buy a gaming machine over building one yourself, just the howto factor for new computer users. But damn over $2500 and it includes a gig of generic ram and a 6800gt, if that price doesn't make you wanna learn how to build a pc nothing will.

 

[James54321]

Believe it or not, this is the first OEM system evaluation I’ve read. With the exception of my first computer, I enjoy building my own systems (and even that first computer was opened, inspected and eventually dissected). It’s the OCD in me; that and the fact that I worked in the industry for many years and experienced just how many shortcuts an integrator will take. I simply can’t trust a builder to put a system together and have me not worry about what’s shoved in there (and how it was shoved in).

Regardless, what really caught my attention to this particular review however was the fact that it seems as if this OEM builder missed a few important points. Sure enough, as I read through the review, I was able to see what they had (and had not) done. While I’m personally no where near an integrator, I do build systems for friends, family and occasionally those who have heard via word-of-mouth.

I think personally the 2/10 rating is well-deserved simply based on the fact that the case was in the condition that it was. You have to consider that whoever built this system, took it out of it original packaging, inspected it and then repackaged it. During all this time I find it hard to believe that not one person noticed the dent and damage on that case. I would never allow such a flaw to pass into my customer's hands and I believe that in allowing such a thing to go unnoticed, they held very little regard to the customer, especially since instead of charging them less for a damaged product, they did no such thing.

Thanks to your review, I was able to better confirm those things which were done correctly and those points which were not. Your review helped to further reinforce how to better build systems for people and for that I thank you. I also thank you for going further than the typical reviewer would go. As stated in the Editor’s Notes, anyone can purchase a system and place it on a bench to see how fast it is, it’s a no-brainer.

What really matters to me are the details; before, during and after the sale of that system, as again, I can use the information to either reinforce and emulate the positive behavior or improve upon other’s mistakes. Also, I realize and appreciate that your reviews are "industry-busting" when compared to other major reviewers; however I think a step further in the right direction would be to hide the fact that you are evaluating their systems at all.

After this article was written I contacted Josh, WidowPC's owner, directly, as when I first contacted WidowPC about participating in our Systems Evaluation Program he was extremely excited and held many of the same opinions I did when it came to evaluating PCs and the systems integration business in general.

Is there a policy against reviewing a system without the permission/blessing of the company? If not, would it be possible to purchase the systems as a regular Joe Shmoe?

If so, your reviews would almost be reminiscent of Ruth Reichl, the now (in)famous New York food critic, who when starting her career, would go in disguise as to find out how restaurants treated "regular" people. Additionally, she was one of the first critics to review and give high ratings to local Chinese food restaurants, while giving famous restaurants low ratings.

Bottom line is, like the food industry, if an owner of an OEM company is asked to participate in an evaluation program, chances are that company will do all in their power to be more accommodating to the reviewer, especially since they want to make a good impression. It’s almost like your initial story of providing the gaming magazine with a system equipped with the FX 5900; not because you thought it was best, but because you knew it would win. Only in this case it’s a matter of service and support, not hardware.

This of course did not happen with WidowPC (which is a good thing), but I can’t help but feel that this was more because they were using an external OEM to build and service their machines (hence also explaining the lack of true customization). I simply can’t imagine too many in-house system builders not seeing opportunity and then taking it. In any case, a great review and I thank you for it.

- James

 

[JOESKURTU]

On the subject of what WidowPC needs to accomplish to grow and prosper:
1. A better organized, individually accountable method of quality control
2. Better and standardized education on company policies for employees
3. Create a great looking, well organized customer care kit to be shipped with each computer
4. Better inventory controls to track a part from customer demand to install to manufacturer warranty
5. Standardized case sizes for preconfigured systems with resulting standarized packaging
5. More frequent web site content review and edits

Can anyone think of anything else? If so, don't be bashful here or in email.

joshua-at-widowpc-dot-com

First off Joshua, thanks for responding and taking responsibility. It is people like you that are going to turn the industry around; I hope.

Suggestions are:

1. Backup solution provided other than Windows fresh install, however that needs to remain an option as well (always give the os disk with every system).

2. Better wire management and routing STANDARD. If you still want to charge the $89 or whatever then it should go above and beyond regular wire management (such as sleeving, or decorative tubing). It should look professional going out the door no matter what! Now that you have decided to standardize the cases you are going to use you can organize wire lengths (cut down cost).

3. Quieter cooling solutions standard. This should not cost you too much more per system and the customers will thank you.

4. Do not make comparison claims to Porsche. Seems cheesy to me.

5. Have a place for customer feedback (use stamped envelope and a standard form included in customer care folder on the second page, page one being the Thank You Note).

6. Clarify your relationship Alvio. Maybe mention that they are -[fill in blank]- to your customers to avoid any confusion.

7. Do NOT use a static producing bag when you ship the computer. I think the one they wrap the cases in is not meant to be used after you install components.

I am looking forward to the review coming up in 6 months. Good luck.

 

[magoo]

Quote:
Is there a policy against reviewing a system without the permission/blessing of the company? If not, would it be possible to purchase the systems as a regular Joe Shmoe?

If so, your reviews would almost be reminiscent of Ruth Reichl, the now (in)famous New York food critic, who when starting her career, would go in disguise as to find out how restaurants treated "regular" people. Additionally, she was one of the first critics to review and give high ratings to local Chinese food restaurants, while giving famous restaurants low ratings.
End Quote
Hey my friend.....you should read more of these reviews.....these machines are purchased, ordered and sent to [H] just like to you and me. The company might agree to be reviewed, but they dont know how or when or what system will be ordered. It is the closest thing to you and me I've seen.

 

[James54321]

Hey my friend.....you should read more of these reviews.....these machines are purchased, ordered and sent to [H] just like to you and me. The company might agree to be reviewed, but they don’t know how or when or what system will be ordered. It is the closest thing to you and me I've seen.

Good to hear. I simply want to ensure that these companies aren't able to give preference to reviewers so as to make their service and support look better or more accommodating than it really is.

I'd like to address Josh’s post and also thank him for his candor. As previously stated, there are very few people who would not only acknowledge short comings but also work with the community to try and improve such mistakes and for that I have to say bravo.

I’m not too sure what your agreement with this third party OEM builder is, whether they build the systems and provide the components, handle QA/shipping or just manage the support side of things. One thing is for sure however: if they do handle the initial build and QA process I would recommend shopping around for a different builder.

I too was bothered by the claims on the website only to find out that there was a third party involved in some of the crucial elements of building and servicing the machine. It is, I feel, the responsibility of the front-end company to offer reliable and honest information to the consumer and if I’m working through a third-party provider, I will either ensure that I can indeed provide ANY product/configuration the customer may ask for (as I claim) or take that claim down, replacing it with a lesser yet effective statement such as performance systems with flexible configuration options; not infinite, but definitely flexible.

I realize that it’s a greater expense overall to go in-house and may even provide less flexibility; however, and again this may be my OCD kicking in, I would never make claims on a system, service or support unless my staff were the ones involved in the process from start to finish. I’ve been burned too many times by third-party vendors or builders that have let us down constantly to make promises towards our customers based on their word/contract.

In any case, the above are examples of what can be done. I realize that marketing will push for terms that entice the consumer to purchase this product over the other; claiming never-before-seen, bleeding-edge performance; however, I think the important point of it all is to find a middle ground. One where you are not deceiving your customers, keeping a healthy margin and providing them with a personal service no large company could ever hope provide. Just my $0.02.

- James

 

[LoneWolf]

(note: My thoughts, without having read any previous posts)

The ding in the Thermaltake case is unforgivable. That should have been spotted during the build, and the case sent back to their vendor for RMA. Someone wasn't paying attention, or they just didn't care.

The sales force needs work. Anyone who tells you that nVidia is making mainboards doesn't know hardware, and the attempts at upsale make me suspicious that there's either comissions, or at least sales bonuses involved. A good salesman's job is not as much to sell as it is to provide the best information and let the product sell itself, and it's better to sell the right stuff than the expensive stuff. Ethics, indeed.

If the recovery CD is a touted feature on the website and it isn't included, that's bogus. This, and the ding in the case, would be enough for me to request a refund.

The shipping quality seems to be Chevy for a product that is advertised as a Cadillac. For $2500, I'd expect better. Packing peanuts compress too easily under rough handling (when used for an item that is heavy) and allow an item to rattle around in the box it was packed in.

The cable job was crap, pure and simple. When I started building PC's for an outfit a decade ago, my fellow tech (with seniority) inspected every box I did, and made me do it over if he didn't like it. I learned quickly, and all of our PC's went out with the cables neatly tie-wrapped and secured. We were proud of our work, long before side windows existed.

The power supply was bogus, too. Sounds like they had a backroom extra from a scratch-and-dent case, or ran out of the requested one and figured no-one would notice. The PSU and the type of memory given for the price paid is lousy too, as if they think they can shyster someone who may never open the case.

I also have seen what it's like to subcontract PC-building. The place I worked at, we did it a few times with big orders, then never again. Build quality was far worse; I guess they either pushed for speed over quality, or figured that there were so many stops in the chain to the customer that it would go unnoticed. We did more labor getting those right than it would have been if we'd just built them ourselves. Lesson learned.

I've seen builders like this...and I avoid them once I know about them. They remind me of a lot of people who advertise windows for your house at wholesale prices on public access cable.

P.S. Great review. The thoroughness is admirable.

 

[LoneWolf]

Another change we're going to implement is a change in power supply brands. I'd like your suggestions for the brand we standardize on. As the company grows, we've seen the need for standardization in the preconfigured systems more and more. For instance, in order to using the kind of packaging the author prefers (custom shaped foam corner pads instead of peanuts) one has to standardize on case size and shape so that the packaging is always the same size and those less annoying packing elements can be put to use. For truly custom systems, custom made boxes and peanuts still seem to be the only option. Again, if someone has packaging advice that is flexible enough to accept the wide range of case sizes that come with building truly custom systems, please don't hesitate to let me know. My email is the same as my login name on this forum.

On the subject of what WidowPC needs to accomplish to grow and prosper:
1. A better organized, individually accountable method of quality control
2. Better and standardized education on company policies for employees
3. Create a great looking, well organized customer care kit to be shipped with each computer
4. Better inventory controls to track a part from customer demand to install to manufacturer warranty
5. Standardized case sizes for preconfigured systems with resulting standarized packaging
5. More frequent web site content review and edits

Can anyone think of anything else? If so, don't be bashful here or in email.

joshua-at-widowpc-dot-com

I have just read your post. You may indeed have what seems to have become a much-sought-after but not always found quality in a business owner --the ability to listen to your customers.

It doesn't make me want to apologize for my previous post, but it gets my respect, if your further actions as a business owner back it up. I think all points you mentioned above are good ones. I'd also recommend truly providing a restore CD to customers, at least for standard configurations.

As for packaging --check your local packaging store, they offer foam-filled form-fit bags for boxing large heavy items. You could purchase a system like they have, and with the correct boxes, just put the bags around the PC and fill them with foam (I believe it starts out as liquid, then solidifies as it enters the bag) to fit. Done right, it can be a great solution.

And for power supplies? There are reliable PSU's that can be had without having to force the customer to spend big bucks. The Fortron Blue Storm models are an excellent example. Seasonic has some good models that don't break the bank but provide clean power. You could also deal with Antec. Those three companies should be able to provide you with system-integrator power supplies that aren't flashy, but do good jobs; and Antec and Fortron each have a higher-end unit for those who want the bling.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to your customers. I hope that [H]ardOCP will do a followup in the future to check in on your progress as a company.

 

[CzarKasm]

They do have to be activated. In fact, most of the larger OEMs out there, and definitely when you get up to Dell's size, will do what's called a "reseal" to system or master image they're using.

What that means is you can install windows, using a product key, get into the desktop and install all the software and hardware you want, then strip out the key and have the customer go through the Windows mini-setup where you have to put in your key, choose your internet connection, etc.

I don't think that's completely correct. If you buy a copy of XP OEM and install it directly from the CD, yes you have to activate it. Of all the Dell, Sony, Toshiba, and HP systems my employer has purchased (and I set up), not one had to be activated. If you use a program called Magic Jellybean Key Finder on these OEM systems, you will see that the XP key used for the installation is not the same as the one on the OEM sticker. In fact, on the computers I tried it on, they ones from the same manufacturer were using the same key. When I had to do a reinstall on a Sony that didn't come with a restore CD (thank you so much Sony), I had to use an Open License / Corporate CD to work with the key that it was running with previously, not OEM. So, while they sell you XP OEM with the PC, it was really imaged with the Open License / Corporate version that doesn't require activation. From what I remember in reading about the "reseal" process, that just brings the OS back to a point where the user has to go through the intial setup steps: agree to license, name computer, set password, etc, as you said.

 

[Chris_Morley]

I don't think that's completely correct. If you buy a copy of XP OEM and install it directly from the CD, yes you have to activate it. Of all the Dell, Sony, Toshiba, and HP systems my employer has purchased (and I set up), not one had to be activated. If you use a program called Magic Jellybean Key Finder on these OEM systems, you will see that the XP key used for the installation is not the same as the one on the OEM sticker. In fact, on the computers I tried it on, they ones from the same manufacturer were using the same key. When I had to do a reinstall on a Sony that didn't come with a restore CD (thank you so much Sony), I had to use an Open License / Corporate CD to work with the key that it was running with previously, not OEM. So, while they sell you XP OEM with the PC, it was really imaged with the Open License / Corporate version that doesn't require activation. From what I remember in reading about the "reseal" process, that just brings the OS back to a point where the user has to go through the intial setup steps: agree to license, name computer, set password, etc, as you said.

You are correct, I wasn't clear.

 

[_Korruption_]

13A on the +12V? That's absolutely unacceptable. I'm surprised the system even booted up. Also, you are not supposed to bend SATA cables like the way they did... this looks like a company set out to make money, not to build good systems to make people happy. Good review, I enjoyed it. Seperating the men from the boys.

 

[CzarKasm]

You are correct, I wasn't clear.

No problem, Chris... I just thought the info might be useful since there are a lot of people here that work on the computers of friends/family/neighbors/coworkers/the_world. It helped me out when I had to reinstall XP on an eMachine where the XP key sticker was gone. The gaudy stickers all over the front were still there, of course. Magic Jellybean saved the day.

Great review, btw.

 

[atari64]

I would like to congratulate HardOCP for these excellent reviews. what always bothered me when reading reviews is that it's so obvious that companies will pay extra effort and attention to the systems they send for testing. your reviews reveal what the average customer really receives, which is obviously not the system that would be shipped to maximumPC.

The way Widow PC treats its customers is shameful. And maybe you were too nice with Maingear. After all the PC they sent you was unstable, and I would have asked for my money back. I have a hard time believing that this problem occured during shipping, but of course I could be wrong.

Anyway, thank you for your great reviews.

 

[zone_86]

The rig looked like a bare bones slap-together that was sparingly finished, and the PSU was probably a pull from a raidmax case frm Alvio's stock. Great review guys. Keep up the fantastic work. Hopefully the owner of Widow PC will change things quickly. Try these guys next time. They have been around a while.

http://www.viciouspc.com/

 

[Spare-Flair]

That WidowPC page that compares its computer's benefits to Alienware and Dell also lists this

Fans
WidowPC
AMD Certified 120mm high volume, low noise
Alienware
Generic 80mm
Dell
Generic 80mm

Didn't you guys just recieve the small fan that's in AMD's retail box?

Also, if that ding had been on my case, I would have been livid that I would be shipped a case that was predinged before shipping and they somebody didn't give it a second thought. Flashy website - shady business.

The WidowPC also states as:
30 Day Money Back Guarantee, I would like to see [H]ardOCP test out the guarantees that are provided by these companies.

As for recommendations for Josh, education and integrity of sales employees is paramount. I get the sense that Evan fully knew what he was talking about, yet was particular about mentioning specific details and purposefully ambiguous if not totally misleading in his sales pitch when questioned about several items. That said, I know that's how sales are made. I do the same to relatives who know less about computers just to stop them from asking too many annoying questions, but I always suggest what's in their best interests economically in the end.

 

[Deleted member 119758]

That WidowPC page that compares its computer's benefits to Alienware and Dell also lists this

Fans
WidowPC
AMD Certified 120mm high volume, low noise
Alienware
Generic 80mm
Dell
Generic 80mm

Didn't you guys just recieve the small fan that's in AMD's retail box?

I'm not entirely sure what brand they were, but they were definitely 120mm fans. The rear fan had LED's, so it's likely it was some name brand. The front fan looks like it's from the same brand, but is not equipped with LED's.

 

[zone_86]

I had a small outfit running for two years that was and exrended part of my shop (which is no more). The Widow PC owner asked for help and advice so i'll list a few things i would do.

1. Have a Widow PC manual for the buyer - even if it's basic with a Widow PC emblem the front, with a certification/record of 3Dmark and prime 95, and or memtest86 (or some other burn-in software) that was run, along with a game demo (or game) looped. Having a bill of sale and the owners name typed up and dates of purchase, all items installed, and warranty contact info and dates that you are under warranty. Have a plastic CD/DVD binder to hold all CD/DVD's that come with the system.

2. Widow PC emblem on the box . Better packing job

3. Don't have Alvio (or you) throw all of the cables in the mobo box - use a padded cardboard box with your company emblem on it.

4. That fancy and very nice Rotating Widow PC emblem that you can download from your site ... install that on the user's dektop for startup.

5. Keep website info accurate about what you will actually do for the end-user and keep products that you will use accurate on the website - don't give the illision that you will use premium corsair ram (this give the potential buyer the illusion that he/she will get cas 2 6-3-3 type ram and not cas 3 8-4-4 value memory.

6. Never use those cheap Raidmax PSU's - this is what you would expect from Cyberpower not a botique PC outfit.

7 Have more options on the drop down boxes for more customization of components, maybe 3 brands of ram with varying degrees of latencies, from value to top performance. Possibly a few mobo selections to pick from like MSI, Asus, Gigayte.

 

[chowchewchee]

Is it just me or do the pictures accompanying the article appear to show that the case was actually undamaged at a point after you guys unwrapped it, and then was subsequently damaged?

The first and second pictures of the unpackaged case on page 3 show the top of the case in mint condition; from the angle the case is depicted from it is clear that the surface is almost perfectly smooth. In the fourth picture it is shown that the ding would be visible in the first two shots if it was actually there. Judging by it's size in relation to that of the Windows sticker, it appears to be a similar diameter to an Australian 5c piece.

?

Thanks.

 

[kunsunoke]

Another change we're going to implement is a change in power supply brands. I'd like your suggestions for the brand we standardize on.

Josh:

These PSU brands will work. They should be on your short list.

- Antec
- Fortron/Source
- Sparkle
- TTGI / Super Flower
- Tagan
- Heroichi Electric Co (HEC - like the replacement unit you got - high power models only)
- Seasonic
- Zippy

Anything else will get you into trouble in the long run. (Apologies for the over-used automotive cliches to come. ) Using a Yugo engine to power a Porsche is a BAD idea. Raidmax should be considered a Yugo, and so should Powmax, Rosewill, etc.

Rule of thumb - good PSU units should weigh more than 3.5 lbs, and you should feel like you're hoisting a brick when you carry them.

I might also suggest giving your customers the option of PC Power & Cooling units as an upgrade. Yeah, the uneducated joe sixpack may not understand why they're paying $200 for what seems like the same 510 watt power supply, but those folks aren't going to order the thing anyway.

One final note - Have your subcontractors engage in some form of cable management other than just wrapping everything together with loom. This is bad form and suggestive of "thrown together in a hurry" style quality. I think you're trying to avoid that.

Peace and love,

k

 

[Deleted member 119758]

Is it just me or do the pictures accompanying the article appear to show that the case was actually undamaged at a point after you guys unwrapped it, and then was subsequently damaged?

The first and second pictures of the unpackaged case on page 3 show the top of the case in mint condition; from the angle the case is depicted from it is clear that the surface is almost perfectly smooth. In the fourth picture it is shown that the ding would be visible in the first two shots if it was actually there.

This has already been addressed. Please see page 5 of this thread.

 

[RogerX]

This has been a lengthy evaluation and we appreciate your
readership. We'd like to invite you now to join us in discussing this
article here.

Chris, Jason--
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your professionalism and
positive attitude in these reviews. While we can trust Kyle to 'tell
it like it is,' I had grown frustrated with situations where, at the
end of a review, we were invited: "Think we're wrong? Tell us so in
the forums!" and honest, blunt (but not rude) feedback generated
replies along the lines of "It's my site, and if you don't like what I
have to say, I'll gladly refund your money, since you pay nothing."
That's not a way to keep readership. (My attitude is
that I do contribute to the site -- by clicking links to advertisers,
buying from advertiser links for 7 years, and sending friends to the
site.) That's not a slam against your boss, just an observation that
you have a real "corporate" approach -- professionalism, diplomacy,
etc. and it is much appreciated.

Keep up the great work!

 

[magoo]

I think Kyle Bennett's in your face approach is one of the most refreshing things on the internet, let alone when it comes to computer hardware and PCs.

I have come to enjoy this attitude more and more as I visit other sites and try to make sense of the constant wishy-washy reviews that I read. There are too many politically correct mamby-pamby's running around.

I think the reviews also take this approach......its honest... and sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[1c3d0g]

Indeed. All these outstanding reviews made by the [H]ard|OCP crew are a wake-up call to those OEM's that have taken part in it. It's great to see that people out there watch our back for us and try to bring the truth forward about every OEM reviewed so far. Keep up the good job, guys!

 

[Chris_Morley]

This has already been addressed. Please see page 5 of this thread.

Yeah, I'd like to put this issue to bed. I was there for the photography of the dent. We had to try multiple times with multiple settings on Jason's camera (and he has a good one!) to get the dent to show up. Because of the finish of the chassis and how the flash would wash out any 'shadows' in the dent, we had a very difficult time showing it in pictures. I can assure you that the dent was there the entire time of the evaluation and is very noticeable in person.

 

[ChristopherO]

Kyle, Chris, Gang at HardOCP et. al.,

I'm glad HardOCP went for a similar review ideology as a certain consumer magazine that reports on various household goods... I think that organization pioneered the "purchase everything anonymously" angle (granted I think they retain everything and sell it to the public at a later date, but that probably isn't economically feasible without paying subscribers), which is pretty much the only way to get an impartial review of equipment. I more or less refuse to read any hardware reviews since, regardless what the author or publication claims, there is an automatic bias whenever a sample is provided from a manufacturer (not to mention those are obviously going to be hand-picked or hand-built units). Actually, to use a reference to the aforementioned publication, that review style perfectly suits people like me. I'm an enterprise ERP architect by trade, and I don't need any explanation of technology, but a really good comparative synopsis is perfect since I can't test everything myself. At any rate, you're heading in the right direction. Hopefully you can continue down that path, cut out the manufacturers entirely so you can truly be free of their influence. In any event, the attempts at being impartial are much appreciated.

 

[Chris_Morley]

Kyle, Chris, Gang at HardOCP et. al.,

I'm glad HardOCP went for a similar review ideology as a certain consumer magazine that reports on various household goods... I think that organization pioneered the "purchase everything anonymously" angle (granted I think they retain everything and sell it to the public at a later date, but that probably isn't economically feasible without paying subscribers), which is pretty much the only way to get an impartial review of equipment. I more or less refuse to read any hardware reviews since, regardless what the author or publication claims, there is an automatic bias whenever a sample is provided from a manufacturer (not to mention those are obviously going to be hand-picked or hand-built units). Actually, to use a reference to the aforementioned publication, that review style perfectly suits people like me. I'm an enterprise ERP architect by trade, and I don't need any explanation of technology, but a really good comparative synopsis is perfect since I can't test everything myself. At any rate, you're heading in the right direction. Hopefully you can continue down that path, cut out the manufacturers entirely so you can truly be free of their influence. In any event, the attempts at being impartial are much appreciated.

I'm really glad that you find value in what we're trying to do, and I take the comparison to Consumer Reports as a compliment.

 

[Dan3290]

chris what do you guys do with the systems after you evaluate them?

 

[Chris_Morley]

chris what do you guys do with the systems after you evaluate them?

We have prior agreements with the vendors' marketing departments to return for a full refund. Costs them the same as building a system and sending it to a review magazine. We've had a lot of good feedback.

In other cases, like the Dell XPS 400, we just purchase them outright. Nothing against Dell - we just didn't have a contact for them and wanted to do one for the Christmas season. I'm rebuilding it right now and we're going to do something really special with it. Keep your eye on the front page for details that I'm sure will be posted.

 

[ChristopherO]

I'm really glad that you find value in what we're trying to do, and I take the comparison to Consumer Reports as a compliment.

Don't mention it. It's good to have alternatives to print. For instance, I don't doubt PC Magazine's integrity, but I don't think they have a testing methodology to speak of. Or, when I review career-specific hardware magazines, I'll get a well thought out review of enterprise servers, but that doesn't accomplish much for my workstation purchases. That's part of the reason these OEM reviews are good, helps find quality for those of us who don't have the time to go the component route.

Hopefully you've got some laptop reviews coming. Too many vendors out there to know where the gems are. Also, I've wondered about significant media-center integration. I'd like to see someone get a media center with multiple tuners, stick it in the closet, and see how well an Xbox 360 in every room works to control/view TV. I'm very excited about the CES announcement of DirecTV PCI tuners for media center. Later this year, when that ships, I'm hoping someone is crazy enough to test that so I don't need to pony-up to be the guinea pig.

 

[swatbat]

In other cases, like the Dell XPS 400, we just purchase them outright. Nothing against Dell - we just didn't have a contact for them and wanted to do one for the Christmas season. I'm rebuilding it right now and we're going to do something really special with it. Keep your eye on the front page for details that I'm sure will be posted.

Thats cool that you did that. Did Dell by chance contact you all after that review?

 

[joshua-at-widowpc]

First off Joshua, thanks for responding and taking responsibility. It is people like you that are going to turn the industry around; I hope.

Suggestions are:

1. Backup solution provided other than Windows fresh install, however that needs to remain an option as well (always give the os disk with every system).

2. Better wire management and routing STANDARD. If you still want to charge the $89 or whatever then it should go above and beyond regular wire management (such as sleeving, or decorative tubing). It should look professional going out the door no matter what! Now that you have decided to standardize the cases you are going to use you can organize wire lengths (cut down cost).

3. Quieter cooling solutions standard. This should not cost you too much more per system and the customers will thank you.

4. Do not make comparison claims to Porsche. Seems cheesy to me.

5. Have a place for customer feedback (use stamped envelope and a standard form included in customer care folder on the second page, page one being the Thank You Note).

6. Clarify your relationship Alvio. Maybe mention that they are -[fill in blank]- to your customers to avoid any confusion.

7. Do NOT use a static producing bag when you ship the computer. I think the one they wrap the cases in is not meant to be used after you install components.

I am looking forward to the review coming up in 6 months. Good luck.

Very good suggestions! I've added several of these to our internal "to do" list. On another note, I've never placed a want ad that has been more effective. I have received multiple contacts who are dissatisfied working with more coporate OEMs who read this review and saw that we had the right mission but lacked expertise in production. I'm currently talking with several very promising, intelligent people who seem very interested in helping Widow change not only our ops but the industry as a whole.

Regards,

Joshua

 

[Spare-Flair]

As I posted before, and I don't think I got any feedback on it, how about also trying out the company's guarantees as well?

WidowPC's site lists a 30-day money back guarantee. I would have liked to see [H]ardOCP go through the return/guarantee process and report on it for future vendors.