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WidowPC WidowFX Evaluation @ [H]

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Spare-Flair said:
As I posted before, and I don't think I got any feedback on it, how about also trying out the company's guarantees as well?

WidowPC's site lists a 30-day money back guarantee. I would have liked to see [H]ardOCP go through the return/guarantee process and report on it for future vendors.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestion - I'll look into seeing how we can integrate that into our program, but I can tell you don't get your hopes up. Some companies have a smaller window than it takes us to do the evaluations, and in this case we had our WidowFX for about two months.

Other times a return of a system that is fully functional will incur a hefty restocking fee with some companies, and we don't want to be losing too much money on our systems.
 
DNA Doc said:
I'm not entirely sure what brand they were, but they were definitely 120mm fans. The rear fan had LED's, so it's likely it was some name brand. The front fan looks like it's from the same brand, but is not equipped with LED's.
Click to expand...

That sounds like the two 120mm fans that come with the Tsunami Dream case if the rear fan had clear blades and the front blades were orange.
 
Flaming, berating, and badgering of anyone or any companies will not be tolerated here. If you have something constructive to say, then please share it. If all you have is a mouthful of insults or thoughts that are overly aggressive in their wording, you can count on being banned or your post being deleted at the least.
 
CzarKasm said:
That sounds like the two 120mm fans that come with the Tsunami Dream case if the rear fan had clear blades and the front blades were orange.
Click to expand...

That's what it looks like. The color scheme matches the card brackets.
 
i was quite shocked to hear the price. It almost leads one to belive that all they were out for is a quick dollar. After all they claimed the best parts and gave only generic ones. This may not be. But that is the impression that i got form this article.
 
Almost every single Dell XPS Gen2 item listed in the widowpc.com comparison chart is incorrect. Regardless, you can't even buy a Gen2 since they're currently selling Gen6.

Widowpc's actions make them appear very unethical. There are different ways to make money - widowpc seems to make it through deception and lies.
 
Joshua,

I think it might help your company mindset to start refering to your consumers as clients instead of customers. To me, customer speaks more to the one time transaction and our relationship is through feeling that you touched on in an earlier post. Referring to them as clients sends more of a message saying "hey, you're important to us and we'll be here for you for as long as you own our product."

That could just be me, and not that big of a deal to many though, who knows I guess!


Also, I would like to see you remove a lot of the comparisons and references to competitor products from your website. It sounds like you have confidence in your product, and once you hammer out these QA problems I think that removing them would help to stress that point more than the comparisons and trash talk. The website needs a lot of updating and needs constant upkeep, that can be a major selling point for some people.

Good luck with the improvements, and I hope to see WidowPC around in the industry for many years to come.
 
Over 2000 bucks for a pc that way no way man..but it wasn't just the dent,(if everything left as is, packaging, dent and internal wiring...then I would of kept it.) but 2000 bucks of what, LIES, like many have basically mentioned before me..If u pay for something so premium, u should get it and not sub par internal items..

That system tho sounds kool, it would of been better or sold more systems at a cheaper price as the price it was intended for, like 500 bucks or less..or even 600 dollars...but over 2k..no way..

As Josh seems to say, that if he has time to post here then it seems like he is a very small company, like maybe him and Evan-Friends..

Like others have said Simply state the truth..and u will of sold more systems and got a better score..

Like I stated above..IF that was 600 dollars or 500 or less and was mentioned truthfully on ur site..I would of Bought it...PROBABLY..I had the Logo..but if it works for u then its fine...

I love this site and also like many othere touted, man pc reviews are tanted...and that is why there are sooo many complaints..if they weren't tainted..and truth then they woulf of had a million billion boats full of happy customers...

I congratulate the mods for not being bias and as they say that its up to u to choose and ur mileage will vary...

.........................
Quotes:

"The case was physically damaged, they used the wrong parts, and they literally used the boxes THEY received the components in as their packaging. I'd expect this from the 15-year old kid down the road, but it's 100% totally unacceptable from an actual business."

I checked the site, it looks much like a newbe and like a two man company..it doesn't look too professional....
..............................
"They literally bought some components, put them together, shoved all of the accessories and extra wires in the motherboard box, put the computer back into the box it came from the case manufacturer in, and shoved it out the door with some packing peanuts."

lol yep.i agree with u on that..
..............................
"If I were to build someone a custom PC out of my own house, I would never let that out the door. It's despicable."

Depends on users prefs..If u were buildina a free one for somebody and paying for shipping then I can see u doing the same condition the pc that was reviewed came in.
..............................

"The score of 2/10 is 100% justified. The fact that it more or less "worked" is nothing more than a consolation. The PC was the wrong PC with the wrong parts, its presentation and construction were as amateur as possible, and it was obviously damaged before it left the manufacturer's hands. There's not much more downside."

Correct but I would say at least a 3, but like stated above paying for a system that u didn't want and wasn't able to fully customize urself and then even having diff parts is a bad sign.. and I agree with amateur but look at the website...then decide..the website design tells all...;)..

So in some cases a regular person woulf of cheated hisself, but since it was done buy a tester/review of these kinds of sites and would try out even the most amateur sites, I give then one point and a they the review and testers don't succumb to the stupidity as most..or they are not STUPID at all but made a bad choice or was blind ot the fact.. Learn from ur mistakes..
..............................
 
January 17, 2006


To Whom It May Concern,
First let me start by letting you know that in with this letter I have enclosed my laptop, and all the software and cables that came when I purchased it. I bought this laptop from your company a little over a year ago, for approx. 4000.00 I purchased it so that I could have a way for my clients to view their projects, demos and graphic work. As a video production company, I need the best to make my clients happy. After a great deal of research and talking to numerous people, it was down to your company and a few other custom PC builders. After speaking with Josh, who is supposed to be one of the owners, I felt your company would be best suited for my business purchase.
Let’s start at the beginning. When I purchased the laptop Josh was very helpful. He assured me that I would get a top of the line laptop bag with my purchase, not the one it normally came with. Other companies, like Alien Ware, were offering a pro bag with lots of storage and protection for the laptop. When I got the laptop and the bag, I was surprised to find a very end of the line bag. A bag that had no storage and no protection what so-ever. It was nothing like the one I was promised this was my first disappointment. I had to go and purchase a High Sierra bag for 50.00, one that would protect my investment. Another point Josh made was that they used Sager the same chassis that Alien Ware used. It wasn’t until recently that I read reviews stating that Sager chassis were poorly designed ad engineered and that Alien Ware used Fujitsu a much better engineered and designed platform. So I’m beginning to wonder what is truth and what isn’t at this point but more on this later.
From the point of purchase I had my laptop for five months. I use it for business and graphics only, such as Carrara, Boris Red and After Effects, it stays in my office 95% of the time, which is a room that stays at 60 degrees. Additionally it is hooked up to an APC Smart UPS 1500VA USB an eight hundred dollar professional power surge protection, power filter and conditioner. This same unit has our Avid editing systems hooked up to it. So five months in and the laptop dies for the first time, I PAY to send it back to your company for repairs. I wait, and wait and wait; it takes a month to get it back. Once I get it back it works for another one to two months and then dies again now for a second time. I again PAY to send it back to have it fixed and again I wait a ridiculous amount of time for it to be returned to me. It's returned and again it works for about 3 months and then dies AGAIN. I return it for a third time at my expense and get it back after a very long wait and its working. This time it took only three days for it to stop working. I call to talk to Josh who is the so called owner and he tells me that Steve will call me back to discuss this issue on a 4000.00 laptop. After waiting many days and calling many times, Steve or Josh do not return any of my calls. Customer Service?!? Can we guess who has had the laptop more? Me or Widow PC who supposedly backs their merchandise so well? Let’s just say I haven’t gotten much use out of it and now it's losing my company money. Now a month after it has died and still no return phones calls, no RMA number, nothing!!
I have decided I cannot waste anymore time or money on your company. Considering no one can find the time to get back to me I am sending everything back, as I said previously. Another point of contention is that in a bad review on ResellerRating.com you state that you pay to have it shipped back for repairs. This is a blatant lie as I have paid to have it shipped via FedEx each time and have the receipts to prove it. So now the laptop is out of warranty by about four months which is due to the fact that it has spent more time with you to “fix” the laptop. If you look at the paperwork I have actually had the laptop a lot less than a year, probably closer to 6-7 months all together.
I no longer want the laptop fixed; I either want a FULL refund in a timely manner or a completely NEW system. If I do not hear from your company within 5 business days of receiving this I will take this to the next step. I have all the paperwork, documented phone calls, and receipts to prove that this laptop is not and has not performed in accordance to what your website states. Further more your customer service is the farthest from being and/or offering “fanatical support”. This should have been fixed right the first time, never mind the third or fourth time.


Sincerely,
Chris Baker
Owner
Frog Pond Productions, LLC

I will also be sending photos of pertainant evidence along with my return. Funny how Josh can post here but can't be bothered to return phone calls. Even since the beginning it hasn't been stellar customer service. Very long wait times on phone calls and sometimes no return calls at all. I think they think you will just go away. Not when I spent this much on a laptop that now sits as a paperweight.
 
I've checked out this site on occasion, and always respected the journalistic integrity of what I've seen here. I applaud your methodology for getting machines through normal channels rather than arranging with the companies to send a review machine that may or may not be representative of the product shipped to the customer.

However...

I assume your reason for the blind review is so that you can convey to your readers an unbiased examination of the company, it's product, and what the purchase experience would be like for a normal customer. For this reason, a contact with WidowPC allowing them to respond to the review is in order, but to open a conversation that appears to be intended to soften the edges on what was clearly a horrendous experience is very disappointing. This company should be laughed out of the industry as a disreputable firm, but I'm afraid this review will reflect on HardOCP's objectivity as well.

Your decision to patronize this company by allowing this review to turn into a feel good, "let's help out WidowPC become a better company" crap is really offensive to anyone with any journalistic integrity.

You cannot fairly examine this company without looking at it's exposure to the public. The majority of what I've seen from WidowPC is sleazy attack ads aimed at companies that have worked for years to build their reputations, like Falcon Northwest and Alienware. Google any reputable gaming computer name, and you'll see a paid ad from WidowPC with such headlines as, "Falcon Northwest Exposed!" The ads clearly state that WidowPC is offering the same product quality and components as these other companies, and better support on top of that.

I can't think of a better example of how far off these ads are than this review, and this joke of a system that's supposedly "just like" a Falcon Mach V, or an Alienware Area 51.

I read a comment here that you didn't want to go into their sleazy advertising here, as it didn't directly affect your review, but you did link to a page on WidowPC's website that supposedly compares what you get in a WidowPC as opposed to Alienware and Dell. Not only are several of the "facts" listed about Dell incorrect, just about every point about Alienware is a blatent lie. This is something that should have easily been reported by the reviewer. The last machine I ordered from Alienware came with an Asus P4C800E-Deluxe motherboard, a BFG 6800 ultra OC, and Crucial XMS pc3200 memory. If Joshua thinks those are "generic" parts, he needs to find another career. By the way, every order at Alienware is followed up by an itemized list of exactly what will be in your system, and the names of the manufacturers of the parts.

It is important to understand that people that know what they're looking at won't fall for the smear ads WidowPC puts on the internet. The people that will likely pay attention will be first time buyers of a high performance machine that won't understand the differences between a front company, and a company that has been in business for years building their reputation and hopefully the quality of their business. Unfortunately, these people thinking they're gonna save a buck are less likely to understand that they didn't get what they paid for...

Joshua decided to compare his company to these other companies, so they should be judged at the same level. Anyone recieving a computer like this from Falcon or Alienware would rightly be outraged. Why you've chosen to allow this guy this forum to con his way around the deplorable condition of the machine he sent, the lies by the sales staff, and lies directly from him regarding shipping of the parts that should have been included in the first place is simply beyond comprehension.

The companies Joshua "Exposed" with his internet ads don't ship a fully loaded computer in a box designed for the weight of an empty case. They don't ship high performance computers with inadequate power supplies. They don't have sales people pushing one component over the other to the point they lie about who made a specific motherboard. They don't ship damaged cases. They don't switch components without notifying the customer to ask if they'd rather have what is in stock or wait for what they ordered. They don't ship anything with garbage memory. They don't advertise things they can't back up. They don't have some economy integrator build the machine in another state, and cross out the name on the shipping label with a magic marker. And they certainly don't ship computers that look like they went out of their way to make the wiring as inefficient as possible in order to impede air flow through the case. They don't tell you they're going to ship something overnight, then wait three days and ship it ground.

This guy implies he's better than AW and Falcon, yet this review shows otherwise in a BIG way. Show this guy the door, stand by your review, and tell him if he wants a forum to talk his way out of this situation that you'll review another machine in six months and see if he's sincere, or continuing to blow smoke up everyone's booty.

Thank you for the objective review, but shame on you for trying to be nice to this company that clearly doesn't deserve it, and in the process bringing your journalistic integrity into question.
 
Hammerhead666 said:
Thank you for the objective review, but shame on you for trying to be nice to this company that clearly doesn't deserve it, and in the process bringing your journalistic integrity into question.
Click to expand...

Everyone should get a fair chance. I see nothing wrong with the {H]ard community giving suggestions to a computer company, that obviously started from the ground up. The fact that the owner of the business is willing to listen to criticism and use that as a driving force for change is commendable.

Allowing a dynamic exchange of responses from the OEM with the [H]ard community (and the reviewers) helps the entire industry IMHO. Why should the company just be beaten to death, with no further action? I consider [H]ard OCP a community willing to help out others and not just a static review site that says "this sucks don't buy it".

Jeff
 
Hammerhead666 said:
I've checked out this site on occasion, and always respected the journalistic integrity of what I've seen here. I applaud your methodology for getting machines through normal channels rather than arranging with the companies to send a review machine that may or may not be representative of the product shipped to the customer.

However...

I assume your reason for the blind review is so that you can convey to your readers an unbiased examination of the company, it's product, and what the purchase experience would be like for a normal customer. For this reason, a contact with WidowPC allowing them to respond to the review is in order, but to open a conversation that appears to be intended to soften the edges on what was clearly a horrendous experience is very disappointing. This company should be laughed out of the industry as a disreputable firm, but I'm afraid this review will reflect on HardOCP's objectivity as well.

Your decision to patronize this company by allowing this review to turn into a feel good, "let's help out WidowPC become a better company" crap is really offensive to anyone with any journalistic integrity.

You cannot fairly examine this company without looking at it's exposure to the public. The majority of what I've seen from WidowPC is sleazy attack ads aimed at companies that have worked for years to build their reputations, like Falcon Northwest and Alienware. Google any reputable gaming computer name, and you'll see a paid ad from WidowPC with such headlines as, "Falcon Northwest Exposed!" The ads clearly state that WidowPC is offering the same product quality and components as these other companies, and better support on top of that.

I can't think of a better example of how far off these ads are than this review, and this joke of a system that's supposedly "just like" a Falcon Mach V, or an Alienware Area 51.

I read a comment here that you didn't want to go into their sleazy advertising here, as it didn't directly affect your review, but you did link to a page on WidowPC's website that supposedly compares what you get in a WidowPC as opposed to Alienware and Dell. Not only are several of the "facts" listed about Dell incorrect, just about every point about Alienware is a blatent lie. This is something that should have easily been reported by the reviewer. The last machine I ordered from Alienware came with an Asus P4C800E-Deluxe motherboard, a BFG 6800 ultra OC, and Crucial XMS pc3200 memory. If Joshua thinks those are "generic" parts, he needs to find another career. By the way, every order at Alienware is followed up by an itemized list of exactly what will be in your system, and the names of the manufacturers of the parts.

It is important to understand that people that know what they're looking at won't fall for the smear ads WidowPC puts on the internet. The people that will likely pay attention will be first time buyers of a high performance machine that won't understand the differences between a front company, and a company that has been in business for years building their reputation and hopefully the quality of their business. Unfortunately, these people thinking they're gonna save a buck are less likely to understand that they didn't get what they paid for...

Joshua decided to compare his company to these other companies, so they should be judged at the same level. Anyone recieving a computer like this from Falcon or Alienware would rightly be outraged. Why you've chosen to allow this guy this forum to con his way around the deplorable condition of the machine he sent, the lies by the sales staff, and lies directly from him regarding shipping of the parts that should have been included in the first place is simply beyond comprehension.

The companies Joshua "Exposed" with his internet ads don't ship a fully loaded computer in a box designed for the weight of an empty case. They don't ship high performance computers with inadequate power supplies. They don't have sales people pushing one component over the other to the point they lie about who made a specific motherboard. They don't ship damaged cases. They don't switch components without notifying the customer to ask if they'd rather have what is in stock or wait for what they ordered. They don't ship anything with garbage memory. They don't advertise things they can't back up. They don't have some economy integrator build the machine in another state, and cross out the name on the shipping label with a magic marker. And they certainly don't ship computers that look like they went out of their way to make the wiring as inefficient as possible in order to impede air flow through the case. They don't tell you they're going to ship something overnight, then wait three days and ship it ground.

This guy implies he's better than AW and Falcon, yet this review shows otherwise in a BIG way. Show this guy the door, stand by your review, and tell him if he wants a forum to talk his way out of this situation that you'll review another machine in six months and see if he's sincere, or continuing to blow smoke up everyone's booty.

Thank you for the objective review, but shame on you for trying to be nice to this company that clearly doesn't deserve it, and in the process bringing your journalistic integrity into question.
Click to expand...
I think our 4/10 rating nailed them to the wall and we thoroughly explained why we thought they were an amateur operation. Whatever WidowPC may say on their website that you and I may disagree with, I think we showed all the facts that may contradict what they have in print.

The fact that you're outraged by our experience means that we were able to accurately convey to you everything that we went through. I think if you compare our evaluation to other 'reviews' of this company you'll see that things don't exactly line up.

As to "softening the edges", I'm not here to bury anybody. That implies an agenda. I'm on your side. I WANT WidowPC, should they stay in this industry, to deliver an excellent customer experience. Not everybody will read this evaluation, so I'd rather WidowPC change their operations than just bury their head in the sand and continue to ship computers like this. I can't comment on every company's advertising campaigns. Most of the time we don't even know everything a company does to promote their product.

Yes, I knew about falcon-exposed.com, etc, but we chose not to talk about it. I think our article enumerates exactly how that kind of advertising is false, and anyone reading our article would not fall for it.

You'll see a growing trend with these evaluations were we will continually revisit companies to see if they improve on their products.

You're about to read a third article on Velocity Micro and we're going to tell you how they nailed it their third time around. So yes, we like to see improvements, even if you're starting from Dell or WidowPC's level. Until such time as we DO see an improvement, this article stands on its own as an 8,000 word WARNING.

I really appreciate your comments and if you'd like to discuss this further with me, please email me at chris@hardocp.com

Thanks.
 
playrh8r said:
Everyone should get a fair chance. I see nothing wrong with the {H]ard community giving suggestions to a computer company, that obviously started from the ground up. The fact that the owner of the business is willing to listen to criticism and use that as a driving force for change is commendable.

Allowing a dynamic exchange of responses from the OEM with the [H]ard community (and the reviewers) helps the entire industry IMHO. Why should the company just be beaten to death, with no further action? I consider [H]ard OCP a community willing to help out others and not just a static review site that says "this sucks don't buy it".

Jeff
Click to expand...

Jeff,

There is a very big difference between readers of this site offering encouragement and comments regarding a legitimate company, and reviewers or people that work at [H] conversing with this guy on the net and allowing him to make excuse after excuse about the deplorable condition of his supposedly superior product.

This company has a history of despicable behavior regarding their advertising practices, and it's obvious from this review that it their inability to tell the truth goes far beyond their advertising.

Since [H] has built a reputation for being technically competent, and appears to present itself as a journalistic venture at least in regards to reviews, it's imperative that they at least keep the appearance of objectivity alive by not getting involved in the result of their review.

Encouragement and applause should be reserved for companies like those slandered by WidowPC's advertising that built their reputations through years of hard work, and producing at least a product that is similar to what is advertised.

Before I'd be willing to give WidowPC any credibility, I would need to see their deceptive advertising, and outright lies removed from their webpage, not to mention the conflicts that appear all over the site. And actually seeing some of these promises he's making here actually appear on his website might give a little credence to your apparent desire to cheer this guy on.

While you are trying to present this as "tough love" to help Joshua improve his "business", I'd suggest you stop a minute and imagine a 16 year old kid that has worked his butt off so he can buy a nice gaming computer receiving this thing in the mail.

You can encourage this guy all you want, and thank him for the mountain of excuses he's offered regarding this embarrassing review, but I'd prefer to direct people towards companies that have earned their reputation, not through misleading advertising, but delivering what they promised in the first place.

If WidowPC decides to address these numerous concerns, then we'll talk...

For me, the only comments I'd offer Joshua are that this is an embarrassing expose on his company and it's practices, and that if you are sincere about any of this chattering you're doing, fix your website, remove the lies, remove the conflicts, remove your deceptive attack ads from the internet, and start making the machines you say you do.

Would you feel the same way if Falcon had this kind of review, and Kelt Reeves came here and said, "We give free memory to people sometimes"?

Please...

This is the real world, and unless this pile of errors was a fluke, they're sending this crap out to unsuspecting customers that actually believe they're getting the same thing as an Alienware or FN for less.

It's simply not true, this review proves that beyond the shadow of a doubt.
 
Chris_Morley said:
I think our 4/10 rating nailed them to the wall and we thoroughly explained why we thought they were an amateur operation. Whatever WidowPC may say on their website that you and I may disagree with, I think we showed all the facts that may contradict what they have in print.
Click to expand...

I agree your review was accurate regarding your experience, that's why I complimented the objectivity of the review, and I commented on the standard of what I've come to expect from this site.

EDIT by poster: I incorrectly attributed some of the comments I read last week to [H] employees, but upon reviewing this string again I see that I was incorrect. I applied for posting permission over the weekend, so it took a while to be able to respond, and that lead me to inserting my foot squarely in my mouth when it comes to [H] and their walking that fine line of objectivity.

I apologize to Chris and [H] for my inaccuracies regarding their responses in this forum and the implications that has for their objectivity.


The fact that you're outraged by our experience means that we were able to accurately convey to you everything that we went through. I think if you compare our evaluation to other 'reviews' of this company you'll see that things don't exactly line up.
Click to expand...

Again, I don't have any substantial issues regarding the review. Like I said, I've come to trust [H] over time, and appreciate most of what I read here as accurate and objective.

EDIT by poster: Removed incorrect attribution of comment to [H].


As to "softening the edges", I'm not here to bury anybody. That implies an agenda. I'm on your side. I WANT WidowPC, should they stay in this industry, to deliver an excellent customer experience. Not everybody will read this evaluation, so I'd rather WidowPC change their operations than just bury their head in the sand and continue to ship computers like this. I can't comment on every company's advertising campaigns. Most of the time we don't even know everything a company does to promote their product.
Click to expand...

I don't want WidowPC to stay in the industry if this is an example of thier product and business practice.

EDIT by poster: Removed incorrect attribution of comments to [H].


Yes, I knew about falcon-exposed.com, etc, but we chose not to talk about it. I think our article enumerates exactly how that kind of advertising is false, and anyone reading our article would not fall for it.
Click to expand...

I think this was a serious error to disregard his advertising. It's what most potential customers will see first, and is misleading from the get-go. I think it's inexcusable that you linked to his comparison page that is full of flagrant untruths and outright lies without some fact checking. You can not separate any business from it's practices and advertising, and I think linking to that kind of false information is very unfair to the companies being smeared with untruths.

If this company is sincere, they'll make it on their product and service, not by deriding other company's good names with lies.

You'll see a growing trend with these evaluations were we will continually revisit companies to see if they improve on their products.

You're about to read a third article on Velocity Micro and we're going to tell you how they nailed it their third time around. So yes, we like to see improvements, even if you're starting from Dell or WidowPC's level. Until such time as we DO see an improvement, this article stands on its own as an 8,000 word WARNING.

I really appreciate your comments and if you'd like to discuss this further with me, please email me at chris@hardocp.com

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris, I really do enjoy this site, and I'm looking forward to follow ups on these companies. Perhaps it would be a good idea along these lines to link to previous reviews from companies so it's easier to see how they've progressed.
 
I think all has been said that needs to be said. If you feel as though there are any other issues that need to be hashed out, please start a new thread on your own. We need our editors working on new evaluations, not baby sitting old ones. ;)

I think they did a hella job. Beer time. :cool:
 
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