WidowPC WidowFX Evaluation @ [H]

[ir0nw0lf]

Another home run review FTW! I can understand it's hard sometimes to have to be brutally honest and I'm glad you guys stuck to your guns on the review, knocking the system where it needed to be. Also, thanks for mentioning that the hard drive was SATA and not IDE -- no doubts as to what it was.

 

[altcon]

I wish you could review our shop....
But we're in Israel so no chance.

 

[MNAchilles]

What a fantastic review! It's great to see that there are still some popular hardware/tech sites out there that aren't in the pockets of OEM dealers, hardware manufacturers, and big budget retail outlets.

One thing I found quite interesting was their tech supports inability to accurately answer simple hardware configuration/spec questions. I'm pretty sure that if you got a hold of some of the build engineers at Porsche that they would be able to tell you how many cylinders and in what configuration (inline, overhead, etc.) they're in.

Nvidia making motherboards, come on!

 

[CzarKasm]

Nice review guys, it was an interesting read.

I've got a couple comments, since I've got my (self-built) gaming rig housed in a Tsunami Dream case.

1: The 120mm fans that come with case have the small motherboard plugs on them, so the RPM is going to be controlled by the mobo. If Widow didn't set the BIOS to adjust RPM with temp changes, then you won't see any fluctuation.

2: The side door is indeed thin and flexible, but this is supposed to be a lightweight case. When the door is on, the whole case is pretty sturdy. One nice touch is the keylock on the door release switch to keep wandering hands out of your system at LAN parties.

3: The top mounted mic and headphone jacks have plugs that won't hook up anywhere on an Audigy 2 ZS without some sort of adapter because it doesn't have the correct headers. This is also true of the X-Fi and Turtle Beach cards I've seen. I did notice on my particular mobo that it does have the headers, but who wants to use onboard sound?

4: I don't think blaming the case for excessive noise is justified. I've got a ThermalTake Sonic Tower (no fan) cooler on my CPU and an OCZ 520 power supply. I can barely hear the two 120mm fans and the 80mm fan on side door. And this is *before* I fire up BF2!

You guys obviously put way more effort into this review than most magazines/websites ever do. Keep it up!

 

[AreEss]

LMAO.. Hyundai instead of a Porsche.

I would more rate that build as a Yugo.

It is too bad not all of the boutique builders go to the trouble that MainGear has. I was thoroughly impressed with them.

See my replies in the MainGear review thread; Wallace is one of the people who is determined to keep me out of the slightly higher volume gaming segment. (Which is kind of okay, since top-end workstations and high-end servers have better margins.)

Turning to the review itself now;

Frankly, I think more points should have been taken off across the board. There are so many basic errors in this build it's not funny.

Yes, doors get taped. They get taped with specific tape which does not leave residue when removed, or has easily removed residue. I use security tape, the same as you find on most components and other systems. (It's cheap and easy to get at OfficeMax.) Using tape that leaves residue is poor attention to detail.
The wire routing is just downright unacceptable. If you're going to sleeve, sleeve. If you're going to route, route. 90% of my systems are not sleeved unless they came that way, and are routed only. Routing is perfectly acceptable. What WidowPC did is totally unacceptable; it impedes airflow, looks sloppy, and frankly promotes shipping damage. The more wires you have in a movable tight bundle, the heavier it is, the easier a sharp drop in shipping knocks that into a DIMM or card and unseats it. Or worse.
The PSU selection is completely unacceptable. If you're going to charge a premium, use premium parts across the board. Skimping on a PSU costs you more in warranty and support costs than the savings are worth (as I'm sure it did with this system; now repeat 50 more times.) I hope they'll bear that in mind in the future. No, an 850W monster PSU is not necessary; a good quality PSU is.
The large number of "substitutions" (being generous here) and "omissions" (again, being generous) should have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm sorry, but when I tell a customer software will be preinstalled, it is either preinstalled (if possible) or I arrange to install it remotely for them (which happens quite frequently on servers.) If I tell them that they will have ATP PC3200 ECC Registered, and I can't get all 16 DIMMs, I call them and make sure they're okay with switching to Samsung PC3200 ECC Registered before I even order it. Is there any significant difference? Nope. But the quote says ATP, not Samsung.

If WidowPC wants to be a so-called boutique builder and charge a premium, they are going to have to make a lot of very significant changes very, very quickly.

And before anyone says anything; Yes. I live in Cleveland, near Alvio. Yes, I know where Alvio is. No, I do not work for or have any relationship with Alvio or WidowPC whatsoever. I haven't bought from Alvio, I haven't sold to Alvio, and I haven't even seen their offices. And no, I don't know if they're reputable.

 

[Deleted member 119758]

Hello all-

I'm quite under the weather, so I'm sorry I'm joining the discussion late.

I'm very glad that y'all liked the article. Chris and I had a lot of discussions about the system, and more importantly, the OEM. This is the first experience we've had like this, so we had to chart some unexplored territory in writing it.

A Hyundai indeed - I have to credit Chris with that analogy.

 

[unab0mb]

Hey, everyone. First time poster at the [H], even though I've been visiting HardOCP for a couple of years now. All I have to say about this evaluation is "Wow", and not in a good way. I was at first shocked by what I was reading and seeing in the evaluation of the WidowPC, and then I literally started laughing! I could not believe that a real business put this thing together. I would have been steaming mad at the damage to the case alone, and then seeing that wiring job, and sub-par components that weren't what I ordered, etc...I would have just sent that thing back. It is certainly not worth the cost. Chris, you certainly must have a -lot- of patience to continue reviewing such a PC. Thanks for stickin' to it so we all can get a good read and good information out of these evaluations. I was actually thinking of purchasing a computer with my tax return, but the more I read, the more I get scared off by these companies. I think I will just continue to build my own. That way I can only blame myself for a bad build. If I did actually buy one, I would only consider Maingear at this time.

 

[MithShrike]

Thanks for the very thorough review guys. I am a local computer repair tech and while I don't build computers for friends I do recommend they read [H] and I also make recommendations based on [H]'s reviews.

 

[tompson]

The following thoughts are most likely going to upset a few of you... you should be prepared.

Do the guys at [h]ard ocp ever write good reviews anymore?

I like their critical reviews and I applaud their attempt to evaluate customer service when many online publications do not, however, when they churn out bad review after bad review picking on small details (like damage done most likely as a result of a shipping companies incompetence rather than the supplier's), they're starting to come off as a little hot headed and of the opinion that they are gods in this otherwise overcrowded industry.

"The quality of the integration, the pre-sales assistance, being able to deliver what the customer is expecting, do so at a reasonable price, and then support it after the fact......." So basically if you're not perfect as a company, the guys at [h]ard ocp are going to find something wrong and spend a few pages of overly critical analysis to talk your company down.

Yes the power supply was not adequate and the shipping company bashed it around, but a 4?

After a year of being a diligent and loyal [h]ard ocp reader for a year and a half now, I'm moving my homepage elsewhere. I've had enough. I bid you all farewell.

“This evaluation highlights the difference in our program as opposed to the majority of review publications out there…” Absolutely.

 

[FrgMstr]

The following thoughts are most likely going to upset a few of you... you should be prepared.

Do the guys at [h]ard ocp ever write good reviews anymore?

I like their critical reviews and I applaud their attempt to evaluate customer service when many online publications do not, however, when they churn out bad review after bad review picking on small details (like damage done most likely as a result of a shipping companies incompetence rather than the supplier's), they're starting to come off as a little hot headed and of the opinion that they are gods in this otherwise overcrowded industry.

"The quality of the integration, the pre-sales assistance, being able to deliver what the customer is expecting, do so at a reasonable price, and then support it after the fact......." So basically if you're not perfect as a company, the guys at [h]ard ocp are going to find something wrong and spend a few pages of overly critical analysis to talk your company down.

Yes the power supply was not adequate and the shipping company bashed it around, but a 4?

After a year of being a diligent and loyal [h]ard ocp reader for a year and a half now, I'm moving my homepage elsewhere. I've had enough. I bid you all farewell.

“This evaluation highlights the difference in our program as opposed to the majority of review publications out there…” Absolutely.

Thanks for your thoughts, they are noted. I am very happy with our program and do realize that the naked truth is not for everyone. There are certainly other publications out that that will better suit your needs. Hasta la vista baby.

 

[Goaty]

Well done. I would have been very steamed. However, even the most angry person can be somewhat defused by a support person who genuinely tries to help.

A general question. Forgive me if this has been asked elsewhere. Must you always contact the business beforehand (for some legal reason?) or do you pick a vendor and pull the trigger?

Goaty

PS: Maybe it's me, but those editor comments in italics against a black background are hard for me to read. But then again, I’m blind....

 

[Brian Boyko]

The following thoughts are most likely going to upset a few of you... you should be prepared.

Do the guys at [h]ard ocp ever write good reviews anymore?

You're entitled to your opinion, but I happen to think all our evaluations are very good.

 

[Deleted member 119758]

The following thoughts are most likely going to upset a few of you... you should be prepared.

Do the guys at [h]ard ocp ever write good reviews anymore?

I like their critical reviews and I applaud their attempt to evaluate customer service when many online publications do not, however, when they churn out bad review after bad review picking on small details (like damage done most likely as a result of a shipping companies incompetence rather than the supplier's), they're starting to come off as a little hot headed and of the opinion that they are gods in this otherwise overcrowded industry.

"The quality of the integration, the pre-sales assistance, being able to deliver what the customer is expecting, do so at a reasonable price, and then support it after the fact......." So basically if you're not perfect as a company, the guys at [h]ard ocp are going to find something wrong and spend a few pages of overly critical analysis to talk your company down.

Yes the power supply was not adequate and the shipping company bashed it around, but a 4?

For anyone else that might have these concerns:

A 'good' evaluation? Read the Maingear.

We were quite clear about the damage to the case - it happened BEFORE they shipped it as there was no damage to the shipping box. A customer shouldn't have to put up with a damaged product before they even get to use it.

Even as poor as much of our experience with Widow was, we still took the time to talk about some of the good things they did. If all we wanted to do is rip them a new one, that's what we would have done. We try to give the full picture. I'm sorry if that wasn't your impression.

 

[swatbat]

A general question. Forgive me if this has been asked elsewhere. Must you always contact the business beforehand (for some legal reason?) or do you pick a vendor and pull the trigger?

They answered that in some of the early reviews. They get with the vendor before hand as with them wanting to do 60 reviews a year it would be hella expensive to buy that many machines. The agrement that have for the most part states that they will order a pc through the normal route via a credit card and at the end of the review they will contact the mfg and say that this machine was the one they reviewed and send it back for a refund. It is a very good idea as it takes more the of chance of a "hand picked" system being sent to them the reviewer. It seems to be a real kick ass system so far.

 

[ITOAO]

For anyone else that might have these concerns:

A 'good' evaluation? Read the Maingear.

We were quite clear about the damage to the case - it happened BEFORE they shipped it as there was no damage to the shipping box. A customer shouldn't have to put up with a damaged product before they even get to use it.

Even as poor as much of our experience with Widow was, we still took the time to talk about some of the good things they did. If all we wanted to do is rip them a new one, that's what we would have done. We try to give the full picture. I'm sorry if that wasn't your impression.

I was just about to refer to the maingear review. After reading that review and then reading the widow PC one it really shows a lack of something on WidowPC's part. I for one cannot imagine paying that much money for a system and having the troubles that you experienced. What really troubled me also was the conversation with the sales rep that was trying to upsell you. I simply do not like that apporach from customer service. It did not seem to even consider the info you gave him about what you wanted. This is very sad to see. Also what is with scratching out who it was from and Handwriting! WidowPC on the shipping label and no documentation also. Not for 2600.00.

 

[razor2050]

I think the way [H] reviews OEM systems is great way to test out how OEM do in real-life. I usually stay away from systems review from any source because of 1 thing, hand-picked system. Too often reviewers gets hand-picked systems which completely discredits their review.

WidowPC have a long way to gain any credibility from enthusiast. However, I'm suspecting that WidowPC is targeting uninformed consumers by empty web promises and flashy marketing.

 

[AreEss]

The agrement that have for the most part states that they will order a pc through the normal route via a credit card and at the end of the review they will contact the mfg and say that this machine was the one they reviewed and send it back for a refund. It is a very good idea as it takes more the of chance of a "hand picked" system being sent to them the reviewer. It seems to be a real kick ass system so far.

Which is part of the problem with extreme high end systems. True niche (like me) can't absorb an RMA on the mid-range, especially when the mid-range costs as much as a new Kia, and the top end requires Amex Centurion. Some of the niche builders have demo systems which they'll ship around, but the problem is that, they're always handpicked systems. Boxes that don't represent the actual thing, just the bare product and various legal paperwork. No manuals, no accessories, etcetera. I absolutely disagree with it, and I certainly wouldn't build a demo system any differently from a regular system (well, except maybe a stronger box, since it has to survive more abuse,) but I don't think anyone here would just take my word for it.

 

[swatbat]

Which is part of the problem with extreme high end systems. True niche (like me) can't absorb an RMA on the mid-range, especially when the mid-range costs as much as a new Kia, and the top end requires Amex Centurion. Some of the niche builders have demo systems which they'll ship around, but the problem is that, they're always handpicked systems. Boxes that don't represent the actual thing, just the bare product and various legal paperwork. No manuals, no accessories, etcetera. I absolutely disagree with it, and I certainly wouldn't build a demo system any differently from a regular system (well, except maybe a stronger box, since it has to survive more abuse,) but I don't think anyone here would just take my word for it.

True but then again the I think the idea of the review process is one for machines that are a little more main stream. The system is not perfect but it is better then everyone elces I've seen. Once they get settled in more it should get real interesting when they break out more reviews(I'm looking forward to the other stuff they have hinted at too)

 

[[Spectre]]

Oh wow that was a bad system. Poorly chosen parts, mistruths and half truths out the wazoo, and call me a PSU snob (which i have been called before so it is ok ) but that was a rookie move with that PSU......not the move of an OEM. I mean a large OEM (ie Dell, HP) has EE's on hand to match units to specific crossloads, has the derating curves, etc for a unit so they can cut it far closer than an DYIer can but a small outfit like this is unlikely to have that access....and even if they did you wouldn't put that PSU (either actually) into a real highend rig. That was just plain bad.

 

[Chris_Morley]

Oh wow that was a bad system. Poorly chosen parts, mistruths and half truths out the wazoo, and call me a PSU snob (which i have been called before so it is ok ) but that was a rookie move with that PSU......not the move of an OEM. I mean a large OEM (ie Dell, HP) has EE's on hand to match units to specific crossloads, has the derating curves, etc for a unit so they can cut it far closer than an DYIer can but a small outfit like this is unlikely to have that access....and even if they did you wouldn't put that PSU (either actually) into a real highend rig. That was just plain bad.

Even after all our complaints about the Dell, it was a damn fine piece of engineering hardware wise.

 

[joshua-at-widowpc]

This is essentially a cut and paste from the email I sent to Chris Morley immediately following the publishing of the article. We knew what was coming because Chris called up and talked with me about the issues the article exposed. I've always enjoyed reading Hardocp and lately have come to respect the method of review they have chosen. Since I run a business myself, I'm very familiar with the risks involved and this type of review system definitely takes guts. Case in point, we were the first company to ship a dual core laptop and we offered it to Hardocp first. Despite the fact that there are a lot of eyeballs looking for dual core laptop reviews right now, Chris directed me to another respected site because of the new kind of review system Hardocp is dedicated to. Anyway, I'm here to take responsibility for the items the article shed light on, learn from the experience and defend one of our tech support reps - Evan (mentioned in the article in the purchasing section).

<Begin Email to Chris: Post Publish>
I want you to know that I respect what you guys are trying to do with this new way of reviewing hardware. I actually think it is invaluable information for the OEMs and integrators to learn from. Even [OEM name omitted - Joshua] was able to use your review to improve the way they do things. If they can, then certainly a relative newbie to the industry like WidowPC can do it.

About this specific article... I knew the article was going to be tough because of the mistakes we made on the order, damage to the case, etc. I don't object to HCP calling us to the floor on those issues. In fact, this is a good growth opportunity for us as we implement new methods of tracking quality control and inventory. We obviously need to get more organized so that systems like this don't slip through the cracks.

However, I object to the multiple subjective guesses that the writer portrays as fact in the introduction. My opinion is he formed an opinion and attempted to make the evidence match his opinion. The resultant "Purchasing" section, instead of being a listing of facts, actually clouded the real issues. Ironically, the meat of the article are right on the money for the system you received. Putting myself in the authors shoes, I'd have an axe to grind as well, but I thought the statements regarding our status as a custom builder and the sales reps motives were inappropriate and unprofessional.

[As I read this now, I see that I'm actually assigning motives to the author in the same way that he assigned motives to Evan...it's hard not to do. - Joshua]

After the introduction, I expected the meat of the review to read the same way. However, the rest of the review is what I would have written if I could in a review of that system. It's was as perfect as I can think of. The system you received was simply subpar and the rest of the review reflects that and does a good job of specifically listing the areas for improvement.

If possible, I would like to be able to write a response and have you append it to the actual review instead of only having it read by people who are active on your forums. I'll be happy to post to the forums, regardless.

Here are a few examples of what I have discussed above:

PURCHASING:
"I tell him that it's not necessary, and I'd like to have the Athlon 64 3200+ that was in the Widow Gaming system put into the SLI machine. It's not a component option, so I ask why I can't get it. He says that it's not recommended for this motherboard, which is a puzzling response, since the motherboard clearly supports it. **I think I've got the point. The statement that WidowPC builds completely custom setups is not entirely true.**"

FACT: We take completely custom orders every day. One of the roots of the problems exposed in this article is that we started out building custom PCs for friends and grew from there building custom systems as people wanted them. The company really took off when we posted preconfigured systems on the website.

The reason the author had problems is he gave the phone rep a very loosely defined, subjective problem to solve. He said he wanted "a comfortable" gaming system "without breaking the bank." The rep then replied with his opinion of the system for that description.

Additionally, he never asked for a completely custom system. He asked to modify a preset build. As you know, that is a very different request from asking to start a custom system from scratch. In truth, we're a custom builder that put up preconfigured systems so that nontech-savvy gamers can get a system that plays games well without a lot of confusion.

SALES REP MOTIVES
As I stated above, the author gave the phone rep a very poorly defined problem set. The rep took a shot at it and then modified the suggested solution according to the customer's budget and gaming desires as the author slowly released the information. I don't fault the author for releasing the information in this manner because that is what a regular customer generally does. I don't fault the rep for trying to help the author find a good system. I do fault the author for assigning a negative motive to someone he hardly knew. I generally give someone the benefit of the doubt until they prove themselves otherwise.

As you know, to ascribe motives to someone is always risky. At the time of the author's call the phone reps were not getting paid per system at all. They now receive $50 per computer, no matter what the margin is on the computer. So, the idea that the sales rep was attempting to steer the customer to the most expensive rig is nuts because the more expensive the PC the less likely the customer is to buy it.

So, the opinion "He's pushing premium components when I don't absolutely need them." (widowpc article, page 2) is incorrect but an understandable feeling with industry sales mostly run by commission. The opinion assumes that:
1. The rep has some kind of motivation to "push" a higher end product
2. The customer already knows what the 7800 GTX is and that they don't need it.

In this case, even more so, since Evan is one of our tech support guys who was filling in on a particularly busy sales day. He wasn't "pushing" anything. He was trying to help the author find a computer that would be a great gaming computer for him. The main reason many of our tech support people are willing to fill in for sales is because it's not a true "sales" role. It's simply a consultative technical solution to stated specifications. Something a techie geek is comfortable doing. Tech guys like Evan are generally uncomfortable in the typical, industry sales role of attempting to push product at a customer and steer clear of it if it means "pushing" anything.

As I mentioned, all of this clouds the main issues of quality control and packaging. That's the real deal here. It's what has been #1 on my priority list since we got the phone feedback from [Chris] and it's what this review should be about. The insinuation and overtly stated motives for someone the author has only spoken with for a few minutes, simply detract from what should have been a virtual road map to improvement in a company that is driven by the right spirit and demonstrated the opposite of a profit motive in the customer care phase.

This review has exposed some real problems for WidowPC to improve upon. We're stepping up to the challenge and we look forward to the next random test in 6 months. As the company founder, I know we can do it. However, I'd also like to challenge Hardocp to stick to the facts to make what is already the best review system on the web into something that is untouchable.

Regards,

Joshua
</End Email>

I have to go spend some quality family time, but I'll be up late here on the forums answering any questions and generally attempting to learn as much as possible about how to improve WidowPC. You have no idea how much I value this opportunity.

 

[tompson]

Thanks for your quick response Kyle.

You may recall an article you wrote for CPU magazine where you criticized ATI for not making available new released products in conjunction with their paper release. Specifically you said that "of course, once you get hip deep in press releases that mean little if anything, they sort of lose their impact"... The same applies here Kyle; once you're knee deep in overly critical reviews and articles bashing companies like ATI and WidowPC “that mean little if anything, they sort of lose their impact."

Now, this is not to say that I do not agree with all your reviewing methodologies. Like I said I applaud that you have taken it upon yourselves to evaluate the customer support of companies, such as WidowPC, to reveal these “naked truths.” I’m sure we can both agree that very few publications take the time to do so. However, lately I have often felt that the weight you give such assessments is somewhat presumptuous and somehow subtracts from the credibility of your overall assessments. You presume that readers care about more about sticky packing-tape residue, which I’m sure can be cleaned, over the performance of a system that they may purchase?

I’m my humble opinion, if you buy a system that performs to expectations and you give it a 9/10 for performance, it is difficult to justify such a low overall score. While you were not happy with their company policies, in the end WidowPC supplied you with a system that performed particularly well; as advertised. This is a point that I think you failed to highlight in the conclusions of your report.

There are tons of interesting aspects of this industry that will always make fantastic journalistic material. Why is it not possible that your publication focus on these rather than sticky residue left over by packing tape?

But thank you for letting me vent my frustrations openly. Many forums would have quickly banned me after my displays. Furthermore, after all my negative comments I do thank you for providing me with a constant supply of interesting (and more importantly free) reading material over the past year or so.

 

[Deleted member 119758]

Joshua - thanks for taking the time to post and welcome to the [H] forums!

tompson - Your thoughts are noted. Thanks.

 

[Goaty]

Joshua

However, I object to the multiple subjective guesses that the writer portrays as fact in the introduction.

I can understand your objection, but this is exactly what anyone, including yourself, would do. We all make assumption on a daily basis with the data available to us. I, as a reader, understood the reviewer was stating opinion and took it as such. But putting myself in the customers shoes, I would probably do the same thing (or worse).

 

[morningreis]

Looks like it wouldn't gotten half as bad of a score if only the website wasn't misleading.

 

[towert7]

Hot on the heals of Maingear, and in stark contrast, we tell you about our disappointing experience with WidowPC.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODY3

Yet another good read!
Boy, you guys just can't seem to get a computer the first time that JUST works, with no problems.

For some reason.... the company reminds me a little of my experience with Cyberpowerinc

 

[joshua-at-widowpc]

Chris and all,

I've gone through the site and removed the references to Corsair RAM. We used Corsair in the past. So, the places you see Corsair mentioned are remnants of an earlier time. It is purely my fault that they are still on the site. I'm well aware that this is a fault, but it's one that is slipped my notice and is continually buried in the many other responsibility required of someone trying to move a company from a word-of-mouth, custom integrator to a more widely known audience. The obstacles along the way have been as challenging as I knew they would be, and I'm always indebted to the technically savvy customers who bring these imperfections to my attention.

Both standard Crucial and Crucial Ballistix are available in the configuration screen. Because of that I assumed that customers would understand that choosing to save some money and not order the higher grade Ballistix form of Crucial would make the customer (and this author) understand that they would not receive Ballistix.

On the other hand, the site did have confusing references to always using "high performance" Crucial RAM in addition to the even more confusing references to Corsair where we had missed changing the brand reference. Whatever the case, I've done several searches on the site to find any mention of Corsair and any mention of "high performance" Crucial and edited them to make the choices and features more understandable.

Another change we're going to implement is a change in power supply brands. I'd like your suggestions for the brand we standardize on. As the company grows, we've seen the need for standardization in the preconfigured systems more and more. For instance, in order to using the kind of packaging the author prefers (custom shaped foam corner pads instead of peanuts) one has to standardize on case size and shape so that the packaging is always the same size and those less annoying packing elements can be put to use. For truly custom systems, custom made boxes and peanuts still seem to be the only option. Again, if someone has packaging advice that is flexible enough to accept the wide range of case sizes that come with building truly custom systems, please don't hesitate to let me know. My email is the same as my login name on this forum.

In order to learn from this review through the forum, I'd like to address the meat of this article. The system, in the state it was shipped, was not acceptable. It's proof that the best of intentions do not guarantee the best of results and that accountability and consequences are required in any organization. However the mistake occurred, the reason I founded WidowPC is because I believed there was a place in the market for a company that cared about it's customer. The truth is that people and the companies they create do make mistakes. Here I am, with egg on my face, as living proof. However, how a company reacts to those mistakes is what makes people (and companies) great or less so.

As an example, the first computer I purchased for myself was during my sophomore year in college. At that point I had already founded and sold my first business. I grew up in the Austin area and so I bought from a system integrator based in Austin (at the time, recently renamed from PCs Limited). The keyboard I received with the computer had a stuck "S" key so that the papers I wrote, comically read like a snake had written them, "sssssssssss".

I called the company and instead of making me jump through hoops, the first person I spoke with told me they were overnighting me a new keyboard and that I could simply place the broken keyboard in the box the new one came in and ship it back to them with the included shipping label. I felt so cared for that I immediately sold my car and other investments and invested the money in shares of the company.

The point of the story is that I was made to feel so comfortable with that company because of their reaction to the mistake that I wanted to be part of it in the only way that I could be while in school, several states removed. I have reflected on that moment for many years. It made me understand that customer service is extremely important and one simple customer interaction can have much wider effects.

As mentioned in this forum, it is relatively simple to assemble a high performance PC. I think the quote here said something like "it's simple to reach exceptional benchmarks with exceptional components." So, we should assume that a reasonably technical person can create a good quality PC. So, what is so hard about running a computer company then? As the saying goes, the devil is in the details. To me, it's the customer service that is the difficult part and it's what I devote my attention to at WidowPC due to that positive experience early in my education and the longer term effects I noted.

Interestingly, each time I have bought a computer instead of assembling it myself, it has become a pivotal moment in my life. After graduating from school and finding myself in the USAF for several years, I purchased a high performance laptop. It was one of the first to come in a different color, this one in blue and with an intriguing logo and branding. I spent a great deal of money on the laptop only for it to arrive with the front face plate on the MP3 DJ bashed in as if it had been dropped on something with a hard, pointy corner. As in the case of this review, there was external mark on the box.

As in this review, I (the customer) called the vendor and reported a problem with my new computer hoping to get either a new face plate for the laptop or a replacement laptop. However, the vendor simply refused to acknowledge the damage and when I insisted that the face plate was indeed smashed they blamed it on the courier that delivered it. I was never offered any kind of repair, replacement or solution. To say the least, it really ticked me off. This came on the heels of me receiving a desktop unit at work from the Austin company I mentioned above that never worked right which, in turn, caused me to have to interact with a customer service department that had gone from a few, kind people to a beauracratic nightmare of phone trees, excuses, service numbers and bar codes. I never did get either of the systems fixed and ended up simply living with the smashed laptop and the chronically ill desktop unit. I felt like the PC industry had really taken a nose dive.

It's no surprise that when I left the service and was looking for a new business venture, that this hobby of mine was where I placed my desires for an occupation. Like Hardocp, I believe the industry has gone in the wrong direction in regards to continued customer relations. I believe the customer is still the customer even after they have purchased and may actually be more valuable post purchase as it is the time when they tell others of their experience. Post purchase is when the customer becomes either a disciple or a terrorist in regards to the company to which they are now wed.

I believe the industry must turn around or it will wither just as the domestic automobile industry has withered. This kind of industry change (for better or worse) can happen in a matter of a couple of years once the market hits the tipping point. At this moment, however, a PC purchase is viewed as a one time exchange of value to most of the American executives in this industry. Something you come to learn quickly when actually building them and servicing the customer yourself is the purchase is actually the beginning of a long term relationship.

On thinkgeek.com there is a T-Shirt that says "No. I won't fix your computer." It's humorous because we've all experienced that awkward question and at least thought the response on the Tshirt. The point being when you run a business you can't keep saying "No. I won't fix your computer." to the people who have purchased your computer and expect them to come back for their next computer. Short term profitability has caused many of the larger OEMs to adopt the T-Shirts mantra as their business philosophy and I don't think it's feasible over the long term. At some point, some formerly unnoticed company is going to start saying "Yes." which (assuming an efficient market with a majority of consumers who have experienced the "No" answer) will cause the customers to purchase their computers from the company that will actually service them when they need it.

So, WidowPC is not about making Joshua McClure wealthy. It's about changing an industry and about exploring and having fun. I know that stating this in public makes me seem a little sappy, but making people happy is so much more fun than making people angry. So, not only is doing business this way more fun, but I also believe that in the long run it is more profitable. That is a principle that I believe in, but is yet to be proven.

Case in point, one of the forum participants here commented on the price of a WidowPC computer. The price of the hardware is higher than many. However, if you look at the purchase as the start of a long term relationship instead of a one-time event, items like 24/7 life time support from American tech support become more and more important. To my knowledge, there is no other system integrator that offers that service standard with each computer. If you have ever tried to hire Americans with technical knowledge and good communication abilities to be available 24/7, 365 you'll find that it's pretty expensive.

So, the choice of the OEM decision maker is to decide between the standard "business hours only" support, India/Pakistan/China support, or the "No. I won't fix your computer" options. I choose the fun one of the three - which, unfortuneatly, requires a higher overhead and corresponding higher price per computer.

On the subject of what WidowPC needs to accomplish to grow and prosper:
1. A better organized, individually accountable method of quality control
2. Better and standardized education on company policies for employees
3. Create a great looking, well organized customer care kit to be shipped with each computer
4. Better inventory controls to track a part from customer demand to install to manufacturer warranty
5. Standardized case sizes for preconfigured systems with resulting standarized packaging
5. More frequent web site content review and edits

Can anyone think of anything else? If so, don't be bashful here or in email.

joshua-at-widowpc-dot-com

 

[caligula jones]

excellent points and comments, joshua...

On the subject of what WidowPC needs to accomplish to grow and prosper:
1. An better organized, accountability focused method of quality control
2. Better and standardized education on company policies for employees
3. Create a great looking, well organized customer care kit to be shipped with each computer
4. Better inventory controls to track a part from customer demand to install to manufacturer warranty
5. More frequent web site content review

Can anyone think of anything else?

you've got a good list here, for sure. i think that #5 personally, is huge, as it's what draws people to your website in the first place. once that happens, points #1-4 are the ones that will draw new customer referrals, which in this this business, is also pretty big.

don't be "that guy", be "that guy".

on a similar note:

my roommate just got his "custom" box in, built on some random boutique's website. when he opened the shipping box, it turns out that it's just the original case box w/all the extra stuff (cables, adapters, etc) thrown in the mobo box. the cable routing job is just sickening, and the stock fan on the coolermaster radiator is mind-bogglingly deafening (it makes my 5v pump whine seem like the song of angels... it's that loud!)

plus, he paid >$2600 for that piece of crap. amazing. i had to turn it off as soon as he left so as i didn't kill someone.

shane

 

[playrh8r]

Josh,

Major props for taking the time to respond directly to the [H]ard forum. The key first step in making improvements is to admit the faults and accept criticisim. I think you have done this well. I look forward to seeing the growing changes for widowpc.

best of luck,

Jeff

 

[nigel.pinder]

joshua,

I live in the Uk so am never going to be a customer of any of the reviews on [H], but I still read them all.

Your response is exactly what should happen but rarely seems to, someone taking responsibility !

Well done to you for holding your hands up in a public forum and being prepard to take whatever comments come your way.

Nige.

 

[mohammedtaha]

I was surprised to see such a weird looking "ding" on the case but was even surprised when I noticed this ..

did it disappear ?

 

[ImJacksAmygdala]

Once again great review! I really look forward to these articles and really enjoyed the Puget Systems and Maingear articles. Although Falcon Norhtwest and Dell were just as informative...

After reading this article, my impression was that a 2/10 would have been more realistic, but since you didn't ask the techs to troubleshoot the dual core gaming problems I can see how you evaluated them with a 4/10.

If anything comes from these evaluations I hope that it at least takes WidowPC to the next level in the next 6 months, and I really hope they can deliver something closer to Puget Systems and Maingear product both through QA, promised goods, and tech support.

I really hope that WidowPC doesn't shy away from this evaluation experience and that they can take this opportunity to improve upon their customer experience before these issues get out of hand and word of mouth becomes a taboo for them.

The list that Joshua created is a GREAT start, and his participation in this thread speaks volumes to WidowPC's commitment to improve. As a customer I like the way that Maingear provided the system binder, and I encourage WidowPC to do the same. These articles aren't just for the readers/customers enjoyment and customer base... If anything else I hope these articles are a tool for the companies to improve. I am eagerly awaiting WidowPc's six month revaluation....

On a side note, I really like the fact that Joshua is prior service military and I wish him the best in his future career outside the military doing something he enjoys.

 

[Deleted member 119758]

I was surprised to see such a weird looking "ding" on the case but was even surprised when I noticed this ..

did it disappear ?

I had to re-take that middle picture about 8 times because I could never get it to show up. Because the finish on the case is shiny, it either reflected the flash or 'swallowed' up the ding due to a lack of contrast. If you look at it with your naked eye, it's clear as day. It just didn't come out on camera very well. You can just barely see it in the bottom picture.

I know...it weirded me out, as well. I kept looking at the pictures, scratching my head, going back to the case, rubbing it with my finger to make sure there was a dent there, and taking the picture again. I thought I was going bananas. For a good while, the best picture I had was out of focus until Chris and I started playing with light conditions.

 

[mohammedtaha]

explanation ..

Why didn't you bring up the "ding" when talking to Production Manager and Tech Support ?

 

[Deleted member 119758]

I suppose we were too pre-occupied with getting the machine to function. It definitely would have been a good thing to bring up. At the time, we were much more interested in the PSU and video card issues.

Chris may have talked to Josh about it, but I'll leave him to comment on that if he did.

 

[3leggedcow]

The link to the picture of the NFS:U2 error doesn't work if anyone hasn't mentioned that yet.

I love these reviews of builders. Keep them up.

Oh yeah, why did you have to activated it? I was under the impression OEM versions of Windows didn't need to be activated.

 

[Deleted member 119758]

The link to the picture of the NFS:U2 error doesn't work if anyone hasn't mentioned that yet.

No, no one has mentioned that yet. Very strange. I'm not sure if there's much that can be done about it now that it's published, but I'll check into it. Thanks!

Oh yeah, why did you have to activated it? I was under the impression OEM versions of Windows didn't need to be activated.

Indeed!

 

[mohammedtaha]

The link to the picture of the NFS:U2 error doesn't work if anyone hasn't mentioned that yet.

I love these reviews of builders. Keep them up.

Oh yeah, why did you have to activated it? I was under the impression OEM versions of Windows didn't need to be activated.

They do need to be activated, sometimes. You just visit the Microsoft Update website and it will automatically update there it's an extremely easy process, it's not something that degrades a company by any means but if it was promissed that it should be done.

 

[Chris_Morley]

Why didn't you bring up the "ding" when talking to Production Manager and Tech Support ?

The ding was one of many problems that Jason and I attributed to poor QA. In a vacuum we would have probably made a stink about it with another manufacturer and seen what they would have done about it, but really, in the face of all the other issues we had, it was just another in a long list of missteps, IMHO.

And believe me, I can tell you that the ding was particularly difficult to photograph. It didn't show up in the long shots, and the 'flash' more often than not completely 'drowned' it out in a close up.

We really struggled to get it to show in a picture - we're not photographers, but we're working on it.

 

[Chris_Morley]

The link to the picture of the NFS:U2 error doesn't work if anyone hasn't mentioned that yet.

I love these reviews of builders. Keep them up.

Oh yeah, why did you have to activated it? I was under the impression OEM versions of Windows didn't need to be activated.

They do have to be activated. In fact, most of the larger OEMs out there, and definitely when you get up to Dell's size, will do what's called a "reseal" to system or master image they're using.

What that means is you can install windows, using a product key, get into the desktop and install all the software and hardware you want, then strip out the key and have the customer go through the Windows mini-setup where you have to put in your key, choose your internet connection, etc.