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Why SFF? Enlighten me

N

NulloModo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 16, 2002
Messages
4,602
Heya,

So, I have to say, I an confused about the existence of SFF machines. I have a full tower computer (Antec Dragon case) and it really isn't that big. It fits neatly on the shelf on my cheapo $30 Wal-Mart desk, isn't loud, and has lots of room for expansion. In fact, I just love this case, and when I build my next system it will be in it (big, black, made of steel, heavy as fuck, but solid, no flex, no windows or other BS, just a solid computer case with good cooling and lots of expansion space).

It seems to me that you trade off a lot for SFF. Certain cards won't fit, not much room for more than 1 or 2 hard drives, have to use special limited motherboards a lot of the time, etc. I am not trying to flame, I am actually really just curious about what benefits you get. I mean, I guess if you are big into the LAN scene a SFF machine could make some sense, less to lug around and all, but for all other applications, why?
 
If you move it, its easy to move.

I have a SN25P with a 4200+ x2 and 7800GTX, 3hdds (inc 74gb raptor) and a DVD-RW, im not missing any functionality or performance, and its not noisy(I did add an out-take on the side however).

Only real reason for SFF is for space and mobility. I lan, and take my PC home during the holidays, and well I will never go back to a full tower after having the joy of holding my rig and screen in hand without much effort.

I went to a focused purpose setup, my SFF is my workstation/gaming rig, then I have a fileserver, then I have a HTPC and for ultra mobile needs, I have a 4lb lappy.
 
Ah, well yeah, if you have to move your PC a lot I guess it makes sense... mine hasn't moved from it's home in two years (and stayed in the same spot a year before that before I switched apartments). Yes, it is heavy and a bitch to move when I have to, but I've never been into the LAN scene, XBL or having friends over to play PS2 beats that anyday in my book. Still though, for those who are, I understand.

I also just like to have everything in one box, just makes life easier.
 
I also have a very focused setup.

SN25P with a X2 4400+ 2 Gigs ram, evga 7800 GTX, and 2 300 gig hard drives. Nothing is missing for me.

I have a file server for music and data, a few other machines so my friends can game (1 other SFF and a Big Cheiftec Dragon), my laptop for work(Dell D610), and a HTPC upstairs in the theater room.

So I have all the reasons I would use a computer covered. I do lan heavily at least 1 time a month. Having a big box for that type of activity is well, unreasonable when I can have something small. Also the small box is an asthetic increase over the large box. I like my old cheiftec box, but it is definately larger than 2 SFF. The WAF factor also makes having the SFF's around easier as I can have more machines to do my bidding!
 
Well... you get aesthetics and you get compactness (I move my computer from my dorm to my home to work on modding pretty often). I like how my SG01 looks and it's great that I don't lose much desk space or floor space to my computer. If I really wanted, I could actually fit my computer into one of my drawers in my desk.

I'd also like to argue that there is plenty of space in SFFs, you just need to learn how to manage it correctly. Look at the sudhian forums. There are members putting BIX2s into their SHUTTLES. I have a BIP2 on my case and two 120mm panaflos. Space isn't a problem in SFF if you know how to mod. :)

And I have quite the list to add to my system...
Touch Screen LCD like the one on the Silverstone LC18
2 HDs with plenty of room for airflow
slot loading slim dvd burner
once SLI mATX is released, 2 7800GTXs (by two i mean a second one)
all watercooled (i mean adding my gpus to my loop)

Sounds like a mid tower system inside something half as small.

edited for clarity
 
theres also the challenge that SFF cases offer. With the limited amount of parts out there that compliments the SFF, it is harder to put together than a standard ATX. Whether its watercooling or hiding wires, there is a sense of accomplishment putting it all together in the limited space the SFF presents us with.
 
Advantages:

Space saver
good for dorms if you go to college
light weight
normally quieter
can be placed on desk easily
portable
cute :p

Disadvantages:
mATX is limited
Shuttle is hard to upgrade....qpack is easier
no SLi or Crossfire as of right now
other part limitations
cramped

If you have like 1-2 harddrives and don't do too much (like running a server) then a SFF is great...they aren't loud and easy to put somewhere.
 
Good for going on Carts to hook up to projectors for presentations. I use mine to display dynamic websites running locally, Its really nice because I can easily put Vista or Linux on and not have to worry about drivers like on a laptop because its mostly standard equipment.
 
I don't LAN, and I don't move around a lot. For some people, that nearly undefinable "coolness" factor is what draws them to SFF. I have always been one for "good things come in little packages." An SFF just makes me more excited. I've only owned one full-tower system, and numerous mid-towers w/mATX boards in them, but having a system like my current Monarch Hornet Pro, just makes me happier. It runs hotter, and is noisier, sure. But I can run all current games on it, and is not some honking huge monstrosity on my desk.

I guess it boils down to asthetics, if you're not a LAN guy or HTPC fan.
 
I like it, because of many reasons, mine can do more than many full sized systems. I use mine for mostly gaming and fileserving, i can play any game at max resolution and have no problems at all. in addition, it is quieter, faster, lighter, and more portable than my full size system, i have sacrificed nothing by going with SFF. I am very pleased with the performance and really love how this system works.
 
Lets not forget how cool it would be to have a row of external hard drives and optical drives on a second shelf of ur desk, then 2 internals...unhook your USB octopus and take that box off to the LAN(games stored on internal harddrives). It just looks cool to have an array of external harddrives and still have mobility :)
 
Because I'm in college, I live half-way across the world, and I spend about 5 months a semester back home every year- Having an SFF case allows me to have a powerful system while still being able to stuff my computer into a carry-on bag and bring it on the plane.

I had a Sonata I case before which I wanted to bring back to the US, but it was too big. I had to take out all my parts, bring them over in bubble-wrap (inside my luggage), and then re-build my system in a qpack case.
 
To be honest my first SFF was ment to be just a LAN PC that can run games on acceptable level. So in My other Pc's I have had more power. Well over a time I've stoped using all other PC's and my current SFF is my strongest preformer.

I still have a SN95G5 V2,0 with 4200+ X2 and 1GB Twinx Corsait cass 2, 6800GT, 250 GB HDD, NEC DVD RW, Audigy 2 NX, Steelpad Steel 5H (USB but ain't using their sound card), Engenious EUB-362 EXT with 12 dB patch panel and few other antennas, Logitech G15 and Razor Copperhead.

Next coming is a NEC 940BF 2 ms version. If all is good 2.2.2006.

I think about other RAM like 2 GB.

Going from Full Size to SFF was for me like going from CTR to TFT. Once You doo it You aren't going back.

Weight, mobility, Style, size and that all without preformance loss.




MD
 
SN 95 G5.....I love it. Small,looks cool,and packs a punch. My shuttle is wicked fast and can handle just about anything I throw at it. Right now it has a 6800GT but once the 7800 AGPs arrive its getting a face lift.
 
I see, I guess the coolness factor is the big one.

Then again, I find full tower cases to be pretty sexy. Yes, my Dragon is a bitch to move, but I love how it looks, big, black, and imposing.... well until I have to get behind it and fiddle with wires, which involves moving my entire desk to see the back panel....

I don't have to deal with the WAF yet, but the girl I am dating is a more hardcore tech geek than I am, so, that shouldn't end up being much of a problem ;)
 
I wanted something
smaller
quieter
powerful
good looking (not a major factor, but a factor)

shuttlefront.JPG
 
My gaming SLI rig is a BIG,BLACKandSILVER Dragon mid tower that looks like a linebacker for the RAIDERS. :D It weighs a megafuckton and is as loud as a helicopter, but I still love it.
That being said, when I need to have a little piece and quiet.....my shuttle is there to save the day. It can game with the best of them, too
I was attracted by the size and the cool engineering that goes into a shuttle. No space is wasted, its quiet and runs very cool. Plus you can move it easily if you need to.
I'd have to hire a mover to help me with my gaming rig. :eek:
 
I wanted something that I could bring to and from work without much of a hassle AND had room for upgradability - something you don't get with a Laptop.

I also am planning to travel in 2007 and wanted something that I could take with me in airline carry-on luggage, instead of having to trust airport "security."

If I actually need portable computing, I'll get a palmtop with full-size keyboard. Most palmtops are much less bulky for laptops and a few can email/web/WP without having to worry about processing. It seems idiotic that in 2006 the best we can do is still 4 hours on a laptop battery?
 
For me, SFF simply boils down to taste. While it is true that uATX motherboards typically don't have all the overclocking options and there is no SLI SFF yet, these are options that not everybody needs. For me personally, overclocking options are a "nice to have", and SLI currently holds no spot in my future. And both of these are likely to change in the near future. SATA, four DIMM slots, the latest sockets, PCIe...all this stuff can be found on SFF boards.

I guess what I'm saying is this: Instead of asking "why SFF?", I'm asking "why a full-sized ATX motherboard?" If you look at the Post pics of your rig thread, you'll notice that very few people have more than one or two cards in their computer, including the video card. That means that just about everyone would have enough space on a uATX board or even a Shuttle. And there's lots of wasted space.

For me personally, though, I just like a computer that's small.

 
aznpxdd said:
Once you go SFF, there's no going back.
Click to expand...

I did.
A full tower pc can eat a SFF alive. I ditched my SFF after having to many PSU issues but I loved it cause I move my pc a bit more then most ps users, due to my work.
I like the SFF cause it looks way better but I will never go back until everything gets small and powerful. ;)
 
I dont know what you had, but my SN25P runs 3 hdds(one 10k), 7800GTX, 2GB of ram, and a 4200+ X2 with no issues...

and with SFF like qpack or the like, PSU is your choice anyways.
 
my qpack is my htpc and also i travel with it a lot. i have about 200gig divx movies and 80gig mp3, also all latest games installed, fear, q4, etc. it has a hauppage pvr 150 and i am running mce 2005. so i can usually run movies on anybodys equipment, if they have a 360, i can show movies wirelessly thru it using mce extender, or music, or photos, and at home its my sagetv server. i never thought i could possibly get as much use out of a pc until i put sff and mce 2005 together. the 360 helps too.
 
~GoaT~ said:
shuttle sn26p sir
Click to expand...

absolutely......you can SLI with the best of them......
Honestly, theres a shuttle for just about any occasion.....and like a bunch of people have said.....you can upgrade these little guys.....and if the video card is too wide, "you can mod the side". Shuttle = good. ;)
 
I don't own a SFF case, but I like them because of the size (they can fit on top of your work table, and they won't take up alot of space) the looks, and because they don't really liik like computers in the traditional sense.

I would get a shuttle if they wern't so ridiculously expensive ($500 for a case, a limited mobo and a less poweful PSU? No thanks)
 
Gob said:
I don't own a SFF case, but I like them because of the size (they can fit on top of your work table, and they won't take up alot of space) the looks, and because they don't really liik like computers in the traditional sense.

I would get a shuttle if they wern't so ridiculously expensive ($500 for a case, a limited mobo and a less poweful PSU? No thanks)
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised what that "little" PSU can do. Most of the 250W shuttle PSU can eat a 450watt PSU for breakfast. and they're very quiet about it. I run a 6800GT off a 250W shuttle with absolutely no problems!! :D
 
magoo said:
You'd be surprised what that "little" PSU can do. Most of the 250W shuttle PSU can eat a 450watt PSU for breakfast. and they're very quiet about it. I run a 6800GT off a 250W shuttle with absolutely no problems!! :D
Click to expand...
All the same, $500 (cdn) is a ridiculous amount for a case, mobo and psu.
 
I use a SFF computer for a PVR I record TV Shows from it and it fits in my stero rack and is quiet.
 
Yup, purely a mobility issue for me. I've moved around 3 times in the last year and got sick of carting my comp. stuff around. Went sff and ditched the super heavy 21" monitor for a 19" lcd. Now I can take my whole comp with me with little effort and no worries about herniating a disc.

I got my sff refurb from newegg so it was less than $100 over what a normal sized computer would cost...
 
size? the mac mini is even smaller than a shuttle :p. i havent tested this, and i wish i could now, but i beleive i could fit 3 mac minis in a shuttle case....with the power bricks in their too.

portability? i take my mac mini to school ever day of the week on every other week.

power? the mac mini is more powerful than the machines we use at school to render everything we do in the adobe creative suite...so meh :p

sexyness? come on....mac = sexy . <(thats a period...meaning..period..end of story :p)


all that goes for the shuttles too (cept size...about 6 times as big as a mac mini....but still damn small.) as well as the imacs (bigger, but screen is packed in their too!)

if i had the chance to pic again, i would get a shuttle system over my current system any day,
 
4b5eN+EE said:
size? the mac mini is even smaller than a shuttle :p. i havent tested this, and i wish i could now, but i beleive i could fit 3 mac minis in a shuttle case....with the power bricks in their too.

portability? i take my mac mini to school ever day of the week on every other week.

power? the mac mini is more powerful than the machines we use at school to render everything we do in the adobe creative suite...so meh :p

sexyness? come on....mac = sexy . <(thats a period...meaning..period..end of story :p)


all that goes for the shuttles too (cept size...about 6 times as big as a mac mini....but still damn small.) as well as the imacs (bigger, but screen is packed in their too!)

if i had the chance to pic again, i would get a shuttle system over my current system any day,
Click to expand...

Have fun playing games on your mac mini....
 
emptyshell said:
Have fun playing games on your mac mini....
Click to expand...
i do actually :p marble blast gold and deimos rising FTW, still trying to snag an older copy of MDK to play, loved that game back in the day....
:edit: oh yea...can't forget halo...and i gotta pick up a copy of UT2004 (even though it will probably only run at minimum settings, ive looked at worse :p)

i never said it was good for games....i was simply agreeing that SFF was great!

i still have my giant PC around for gaming :p
 
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