Why not make upgradable consoles?

pigpen

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just remembered another amazing title for Sega CD was Batman Returns. Makes me want to dig it out of my mom's basement next time i go home for a visit.
 

xSnowmaNx

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The better question is why not allow mouse and keyboard on consoles? Is no one else tired of being forced to play games that could be much better off with a keyboard and mouse?
 

dezertrat

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The better question is why not allow mouse and keyboard on consoles? Is no one else tired of being forced to play games that could be much better off with a keyboard and mouse?
not really, if i know a game is going to be better on pc, then i buy it on pc, no one is forcing you to buy those games.

I thought Civ. Rev. was pretty good actually, and that new tom clancy game with the voice controls looks interesting, but ive never been sitting on my couch going damm i wish i had a keyboard right now! The games are designed for the controller and that's the way they are meant to be played
 

retro

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Hah yeah, the SNES addon became the Playstation after Nintendo backed out on a deal with Sony. So as a console addon, it failed, but as a console it kinda did pretty well :p
Nintendo didn't 'back out' of the final deal. Originally, they had a product in the working with Sony. When they demanded too much control, they left and went with Philips, where we saw the CD-I systems. However, they wanted something strictly for the SNES so they went back to Sony, where they were greeted by a company that wanted complete control over the software library for the addon. When Nintendo said F-U, they both left their ways.

Atleast that's how I remember it going down.
 

piXel

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Upgradeable parts on consoles and system settings, you seriously think the average console owner knows anything about hardware? :eek:
 

jnex26

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You're right.



Correct again, it would require a little more work before the console was released.
SLI has taken more than just a little more work to get completed, it's been a pretty big undertaking with the development of new hardware and a new bus to get it to work.

That's not a fact. It's not even a fact that I'm referring to an SLI technology. Like I said to the other guy, open your mind, this technology may not even be out yet. The basic idea is that it could be a modular upgrade technology.
Modular or not there is still the problem of hardware changing and games needing to support multiple peices of hardware also if SLI/Crossfire does need game support for maximum performance, although both can accelerate any DX games some just get more boost than others.

What if I put the console in my oven at 500f. That would cause all kinds of errors! Now THIS defeats my idea more soundly than above.
This is a Glib remark, it does not say anywhere you can put your console in the oven, but if it does say you can upgrade your graphics on the box people are going to do it, then you need approved hardware. and some customers are going to get bliked into buging counterfit hardware and complaining and it won't be to the add on maker, it will be to the console maker or games publisher.


Not really. Notice you're stating a lot of absolutes about an idea that's not even finalized. I'm basically just saying, hey it might be possible, and it could benefit everyone if it worked.
But as i'm pointing out that it would not benifit anyone console work becuase they are stationary the very first PS3 will run all the games the very last PS3 will run, if you start including upgrades that could change and people will not just beable to goto a shelf and pick up a game with the right name on itand it will work, and beleive it or not this is a binary idea with you upgrade and deal with all these issues or you stop hardware upgrades.

But I know the how the console haters work. Entire sections of the brain are shut off for the sake of the elitist loyalty to the PC.
I'm far from a elitist PC console hater in the past i have owned or currently own. NES, SNES, MegaDrive, Playstation, PSOne ( I owned Both), Xbox, WII. I beleive all these consoles had an advantage and that was their stationary hardware ( I never went for the Megadrive's options). I refuse to buy a console that requires upgrading because you never know how much it's going to cost in the future.

My PC is a different thing though i know it's a constant upgrade process, I use it for much more than just gaming and i justify it differently.
 

Sly

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You're mixing up the way PC marketing works and trying to apply it on the console, which simply wouldn't work.

On any other platform, SLI is a very big risk. The cost of developing new generation hardware is enough to bankrupt a company if it didn't work. But they went ahead anyway. Know why? Because that's simply how it is around the PC. As more powerful hardware comes out, the baseline changes. Is the hardware too powerful? The software will take advantage of it. Is the software too demanding? The hardware will eventually catch up. (Catch 22? What's that?) Standards rise, cutting edge becomes the norm, game requirements shift, and then everyone moves on. Demand will always be there. The cost of gaming hardware (technically a luxury) isn't that big since the base system is still a work PC, which in turn is also evolving. Often, to turn a work rig into a gaming rig takes nothing more than changing the video card. You are already using the PC to make money, might as well add a bit more and make it fun.

When i was in gradeschool scraping up part time jobs, i learned early on that a gaming PC was actually more economical than buying a console. More expensive sure, but you can also use it to make money. Thus long term upgrade paths with the PC paying for itself became the norm.



A console on the other hand, from the consumers point of view is purely a luxury (i.e. a money pit). To develop upgrade hardware you would require backward compatibility. How many developers are willing to make different versions of a game for two versions of the same console? Just to support that single hardware. Would they shoulder the cost of the development and make a subsystem that they aren't even sure will catch on? The Sega X32 and the CD addon had less than ten games that used both addons.

Independent developers often take the safe route and go for the least common denominator. Which is the base console, which never changes throughout it's lifetime. Will the regular joe be interested enough to pay 50% of the consoles price for an item that's only used by a handful of games? A luxury upgrade for a luxury item? Will there be enough of them to support the development of that hardware? Do you have a lightgun?

"NOTE: You must have the 1GB addon and Version 2 graphics module to play" You'll have the joes screaming at MS the first time they read a system requirement that effectively doubles the price of their XBOX.
 

Michaelius

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I hope we NEVER see this. I like knowing that I'm playing the "right" version of a game that the developer intended and designed for...not just the version my hardware can output with what I personally consider to be an acceptable frame-rate and details.
Yeah right got forbid someone actually can play game x on console y with stable 60 fps@720p instead of developer intended 720p@30fps with huge framedrops.

Anyway it won't happen as consoles are designed to be accesible to computer illiterates as well as hardcore geeks.
 

Domingo

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Yeah right got forbid someone actually can play game x on console y with stable 60 fps@720p instead of developer intended 720p@30fps with huge framedrops.

Anyway it won't happen as consoles are designed to be accesible to computer illiterates as well as hardcore geeks.
Because once you open that can of worms the next step is to REQUIRE people to buy that upgrade for certain games or the version the developer intends suddendly becomes that 60fps version while cheap-skates can play the piss poor 30fps version. It's the equivalent of gaming on a SDTV for the current consoles. You can do it, but it sucks by comparison. If something like this were to come out, it'll either be a 32X and be worthless, or it'll be the de-facto standard and we'll all be forced to buy it. There will never be some magical upgrade for consoles that makes older games better.
 

SPARTAN VI

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I've made a post like this here before, but I think we're looking at this backwards. Someone (maybe me!) should make the PC a little more like a console in terms of hardware ease of use.

It's currently brain surgery for anyone less than a novice to upgrade memory, storage, graphics, etc. It's my vision that upgrading/configuring hardware will be as simple as hitting an eject button, sliding out the component, then sliding in your new component, *click* and be done with it. No messing with screws, thumb screws, tabs, and such. No checking for compatibility. If such a thing existed and it turns out good enough, I'd recommend it to all my casual gamer friends that keep paging me to help them with their computers, build their computers, fix their computers, etc. :D
 

xSnowmaNx

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not really, if i know a game is going to be better on pc, then i buy it on pc, no one is forcing you to buy those games.
Which completely avoids the point of my question. If I had the choice of choosing to buy a game which was identical on both a console and on PC, I would NEVER buy the console version.

The point is, there are some GOOD games on consoles (and ONLY on consoles) which could be BETTER on the PC simply by the virtue of the better control you get inherently due to the mouse.

Anyways, as far as upgrading consoles go, that's a big no. It's a nightmare for the hardware providers and honestly, it's a nightmare for consumers as well.
 

Domingo

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I've made a post like this here before, but I think we're looking at this backwards. Someone (maybe me!) should make the PC a little more like a console in terms of hardware ease of use.

It's currently brain surgery for anything less than a novice to upgrade memory, storage, graphics, etc. It's my vision that upgrading/configuring hardware will be as simple as hitting an eject button, sliding out the component, then sliding in your new component, *click* and be done with it. No messing with screws, thumb screws, tabs, and such. No checking for compatibility. If such a thing existed and it turns out good enough, I'd recommend it to all my casual gamer friends that keep paging me to help them with their computers, build their computers, fix their computers, etc. :D
I agree with you 100%. I'd love to see a true blade/USB style interface for PC's and honestly, there aren't a lot of reasons why it shouldn't be feasible. The inside of a PC is a complete mess and it doesn't need to be. Driver/hardware installation should be a lot eaiser, too. I, too, spend way too much time walking people through the pain in the ass process of keeping their computers up to snuff.
 

Sly

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Don't the consoles already support keyboard and mouse? I distinctly remember seeing a controller that was a keyboard with PS handles on the sides.
 

xSnowmaNx

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Don't the consoles already support keyboard and mouse? I distinctly remember seeing a controller that was a keyboard with PS handles on the sides.
As far as I know, there is no such console that fully supports a mouse except for the PS3, and I may be wrong about this, but I think this mouse support is an option that is up do the developer to choose whether or not to include it in their game. There are some third party solutions for most of the consoles where they hacked up some sort of driver I would imagine that would translate the mouse data into control stick data the console can read, but most of these solutions are shaky at best.
 

damonposey

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SLI has taken more than just a little more work to get completed, it's been a pretty big undertaking with the development of new hardware and a new bus to get it to work.
Correct, but I'm not talking about SLI.

Modular or not there is still the problem of hardware changing and games needing to support multiple peices of hardware also if SLI/Crossfire does need game support for maximum performance, although both can accelerate any DX games some just get more boost than others.
Again, you're talking about SLI/Crossfire, I'm not.

This is a Glib remark, it does not say anywhere you can put your console in the oven, but if it does say you can upgrade your graphics on the box people are going to do it, then you need approved hardware. and some customers are going to get bliked into buging counterfit hardware and complaining and it won't be to the add on maker, it will be to the console maker or games publisher.
Since when has a company not released a product soley for fear of a confused consumer or that someone will make a counterfeit version?


But as i'm pointing out that it would not benifit anyone console work becuase they are stationary the very first PS3 will run all the games the very last PS3 will run, if you start including upgrades that could change and people will not just beable to goto a shelf and pick up a game with the right name on itand it will work, and beleive it or not this is a binary idea with you upgrade and deal with all these issues or you stop hardware upgrades.
Again you're missing the point. a non-upgraded console would theoretically be able to play every game, but an upgraded console could do everything with sharper graphics, 1080p, better framerate etc. It would just be an extra push.

I'm far from a elitist PC console hater in the past i have owned or currently own. NES, SNES, MegaDrive, Playstation, PSOne ( I owned Both), Xbox, WII. I beleive all these consoles had an advantage and that was their stationary hardware ( I never went for the Megadrive's options). I refuse to buy a console that requires upgrading because you never know how much it's going to cost in the future.
But you'll buy PC parts not knowing how much these parts will cost in the future.

My PC is a different thing though i know it's a constant upgrade process, I use it for much more than just gaming and i justify it differently.
[/quote]

It's a fanboy's #1 priority. justifying his platform, and putting down others that might steal any of its thunder. Funny that you don't own a PS3 or 360, they becoming too much like your precious PC so you shun them?
 

Eva_Unit_0

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The legendary tower of SEGA





EDIT: That tower is missing the modem addon.
come on everyone, less bickering and more sega towers. This picture is 100% win. Also, Sonic CD was the most whacked out sonic game ever. Traveling through time ftw.
 

jnex26

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Since when has a company not released a product soley for fear of a confused consumer or that someone will make a counterfeit version?
it's not the fear of a counterfit product it's the attitude that there would be escalted service calls. what if a part fails how do you diagnose the failure ? then who manages the RMA atm it just sony but if you have a MSI card in a sony maching do you make two service calls ?

Again you're missing the point. a non-upgraded console would theoretically be able to play every game, but an upgraded console could do everything with sharper graphics, 1080p, better framerate etc. It would just be an extra push.
But to do this the game would have to support the add-on and how long before the add-on becomes a necessity ?

But you'll buy PC parts not knowing how much these parts will cost in the future.
But I don't just game on my PC's, plus when I but a part for my PC it's generally replaceing quite a old part.and It's only when forced that I replace MB

It's a fanboy's #1 priority. justifying his platform, and putting down others that might steal any of its thunder. Funny that you don't own a PS3 or 360, they becoming too much like your precious PC so you shun them?
I'm not worried about thunder, The reason I don't own a 360 is that most of the games worth my money on that are FPS's and I personally prefer the keyboard and mouse.

and I will buy the PS3 when polyphony and sony get thier a$$ into gear and A. Bring down the price of the PS3 (Still over £300/$600) and B. release GT5 (I got burned with GT mobile and I'm not letting it happen again).
 

damonposey

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it's not the fear of a counterfit product it's the attitude that there would be escalted service calls. what if a part fails how do you diagnose the failure ? then who manages the RMA atm it just sony but if you have a MSI card in a sony maching do you make two service calls ?
Why do you assume that 3rd parties would be legitimately involved?


But to do this the game would have to support the add-on and how long before the add-on becomes a necessity ?
Never. Because like I said many times before the addon would just be increased IQ/framerate.


I'm not worried about thunder, The reason I don't own a 360 is that most of the games worth my money on that are FPS's and I personally prefer the keyboard and mouse.
That's nice, me too.

and I will buy the PS3 when polyphony and sony get thier a$$ into gear and A. Bring down the price of the PS3 (Still over £300/$600) and B. release GT5 (I got burned with GT mobile and I'm not letting it happen again).

That's also nice.
 

jnex26

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Why do you assume that 3rd parties would be legitimately involved?
Either they are approved parts or coutner fit either way there would be 3rd parties creating the add-ons.


Never. Because like I said many times before the addon would just be increased IQ/framerate.
but still to support the new hardware you need drivers and in he case of consoles software support. the game would have to know that the add-on has been installed in order for it to upp the IQ/Framerate.
 

Chombo

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I think besides the whole optimization problems that crop up from expanded hardware, I think a major obstacle on the developer/producer side is that once you start opening up the system you allow for a greater possibility of TEH PIRACY.
 

damonposey

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Either they are approved parts or coutner fit either way there would be 3rd parties creating the add-ons.
Yep.

but still to support the new hardware you need drivers and in he case of consoles software support. the game would have to know that the add-on has been installed in order for it to upp the IQ/Framerate.
Also yep. anything else you want to add that I already know and can agree with you on?
 
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