Why not integrate simple battery backup into PSU?

J

JediFonger

2[H]4U
2FA
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
2,777
and have a compartment to swap out batteries? the reason is fairly obvious. if a user does not have a UPS and experiences either brown and black outs, his PC is protected in the long term. am i the first one to think of this?

it doesn't have to be thousands of jigawatts. all it has to survive is hold off against electric failures outside of the PC so components don't get damaged.
 
I don't think I understand quite what you mean:
Do you want to have a backup so that the PC can shut down in case of a power failure? If that is the case, there would have to be a control connections between the PSU and the mainboard and the OS would have to be able to shut down, when the control connections says "hey, we are on battery" In addition, that battery would have to be quite beefy to put out 3/4/5/700 Watts for at least 30 seconds or however long it'd take to 'emergency shutdown' the computer. Addititonally, there'd have to be either a DC/DC converter to transform the battery power into the requires DC voltages or an inverter.

All in all, this would add significant amount of complexity to PSU's, mainboard and (less so) operating systems. On top of that, if one PSU maker starts this, they would not get far without widespread mainboard and OS support. How much more do you think people would be willing to pay for this and how much flexibility do you think people are willing to give up until this becomes standard?

While I think the idea is pretty neat, I think that the barriers to entry are too high with respect to the future payoff. I don't think it makes business sense, especialle when you consider that most people that really want UPS functionality already own a 'real' UPS.
 
no, the primary purpose of a built-in UPS is to reduce damange to the PC for people who are too ignorant to buy UPS's in both residential and commercial applications.
 
Many high end PSU's do "condition" the AC power, the PC P&C Turbo Cools for one.

There is no room for batteries in an ATX PSU case.
 
not to mention that you can get an APC 500VA for about $40. That will hold a high end system with a 22" CRT up long enough for a shutdown. What you're talking about would be about the equivilent of an APV 350VA, which will survive a brownout or momentary loss of power (<1min). Considering the 350VA's weigh in at about 10lbs and they are the minimum you'd want....I think it's a far fetched idea to actually "integrate" something like that into the PSU as the UPS itself is at lest 3 times the weight and twice the physical size of most PSU.
 
my Lian Li PC70 has an extra room for another PSU =).

anyway, the power "conditioning" is just bringing up the current from outlet to prevent brownouts. the purpose of a battery in the PSU is to prevent the shock of brown outs (electricity disappearing for a few seconds and coming back surged, etc.). many components break that way. boston (where i live) sees twice to three times a week. i think it'd save $ if businesses could take advantage of.
 
My case has room for another PSU as well, and granted, the idea is a nice one to have it built into the psu I dont' think it's very practical for the points everyone has mentioned.

If the battery were replaceable (and the battery itself didn't cost as much as the psu...like APC equipment) I could see spending an extra $30 on a psu.
 
Hmm, this thread gave me an idea..

I have one of these:
Omni650LCD.jpg


I think it would be cool to mod it into my case.
 
This has been done by a few companies. Personaly I think the idea of building it into a stock size power supply is kinda shitty and as you can see the companies that make them don't make beefy ones. The idea of the battery sitting in a 5.25 inch bay is kinda interesting though. If you could tie a few of those together it could be interesting. Anyway here is some info.

http://www.amtrade.com/ups/small_uninterruptible_power.htm

http://www.indocomp.com/IND-UPS200-ATX.html

http://www.ups2.com/

http://pe.amsdell.com/ippsspec.htm

http://www.upssystems.uk.com/acatalog/Internal_UPS.html

http://www.made-in-china.com/china-products/productviewZxJQDipTjmAv/Internal-UPS-300VA.html

http://www.openrussia.ru/catalogitems/21795/Internal-UPS-For-Computer.htm

Guardian On Board made a UPS that fit in either a pci or isa slot back in the day as well. Don't think they are around anymore though.
 
i don't think it'd that practical. you don't need the battery to be ginormous just enough to sustain off and on (brown outs) and correct the voltage. now, if the user requires MUCH more than that buy a dedicated batter backup... but imho, every PC should have a "power shield" in their PSU to prevent low voltage and brown outs because those 2 factors are the #1 killers of components inside the PC. most of the city/suburbs have older power lines and are prone to these types of surges. i think it's a big issue. who the hell wants to replace either parts or entire PCs every now and then due to POWER? :rolleyes:
 
JediFonger said:
i don't think it'd that practical. you don't need the battery to be ginormous just enough to sustain off and on (brown outs) and correct the voltage. now, if the user requires MUCH more than that buy a dedicated batter backup... but imho, every PC should have a "power shield" in their PSU to prevent low voltage and brown outs because those 2 factors are the #1 killers of components inside the PC. most of the city/suburbs have older power lines and are prone to these types of surges. i think it's a big issue. who the hell wants to replace either parts or entire PCs every now and then due to POWER? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Then everyone should but PC P&C Turbo Cools or other super highend PSU's! ;)
 
Cool that they exist (links above)...If PCP&C or OCZ made a Powerstream w/built in UPS I think I'd spring for it. Not sure if I'd trust the "industrial grade" PSU's though. Industrial strength doesn't always mean cleaner/better.

I think the 5 1/4 bay unit would be cool though. I have plenty of those in my case not being used.
 
I read that PCP&C once did make a PSU with an UPS built into it. It was an AT type but older, for back when PCs used much bigger PSUs than they are now, even bigger than today's 1,000W ones.
 
The problem is simply size.

Companies are struggling to put 600W+ in regular 5.5" deep housings as it is. Now you want them to include the circuitry for a UPS? ;)

And note the 5.25" bay batteries are only 300VA. What's going to happen when one of our gaming rigs try to run off of that? "Overload protection! Good bye!" *Click!* Useless for anything more than a P.O.S. or an office computer used for book keeping and e-mail.
 
jonnyGURU said:
The problem is simply size.

Companies are struggling to put 600W+ in regular 5.5" deep housings as it is. Now you want them to include the circuitry for a UPS? ;)

And note the 5.25" bay batteries are only 300VA. What's going to happen when one of our gaming rigs try to run off of that? "Overload protection! Good bye!" *Click!* Useless for anything more than a P.O.S. or an office computer used for book keeping and e-mail.
Click to expand...

The 5.25" batteries were really for office machines. Hell a few of them come with a ps(250 or 300 watt). For an office machine it would prob be fine. It would be pretty cool though if you could tie a few of the 5.25" apcs together and really hide it inside.
 
well, the point is to survive power outs for mere seconds (upto 10?). a 300VA can't handle that? i thought we were at the pinnacle of our technological achievements *smirk*?
 
I for one would like a TWO SECOND battery backup in it. Thats usually the only thing that happens around here, unless of course the power is actually knocked out.

The worst is when the power just flickers basically, and you shit yourself thinking you just lost your hard drives...
 
^that's what i mean. and that's only personal... imagine corporate clients. i know data usually isn't stored on it... but the cost of buying new equipment. i think it should be done. SNELL!
 
If you have a decent enough PSU the caps alone can keep the system going during a small brownout. But for anyone running a power hungry system there is little hope. For anyone with a decent PSU the power supply should die before anything else gets toasted. So other than keeping the system going for a while I see little reason to have a battery stuck into the PSU.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top