Why not Dell 8400?

[chizu]

I know a lot of people hates Dell's computer and I don't see why, if you do, I would like an explanation of the experts. Do they have a useless motherboard or something? But anyway, I am thinking of purchasing one of their system once Ikea open a store hear near my place so I could get the Jerker Desk. The system I am speaking of is the Dell 8400 with the specs of:

3.2 GHZ
Audigy 2 ZS
160 GB SATA
Dual DVD 16X
1GB (I believe it's Kingston's value ram?)
6800Nu or U?

The reason why I am getting a Dell is because they have good deal every now and then. The system is extremely quiet. Again, I don't see the weakness in this Dell's system, if you do, please point them out. Thank you

 

[visaris]

The reason I don't like dell is because they use custom parts. Just like gateway used to do.

I had a gateway system, and they made a custom version of the modem they used. Couldn't use it in anything other than the system it came in. Custom drivers with a custom install program. I could not, for the life of me, make it work in any other system.

Dell uses (or used to use) non standard power supplies. I had a dell and I stole the power supply out of it. Wouldn't work with any other MB than the box it came in. LAME! Also, what if the dell PS broke? Would I even be able to buy a cheap replacement, or would I have to buy a dell part?

I don't buy prebuilt systems. You run into crap like that above. It is much better to build your own, or find a site to build and pre-test it for you, out of common parts you choose yourself. If you're not smart about it, they will rape you

 

[theHinge]

Fuck Dell, for same reasons as poster above. Cheap systems, but try to upgrade one with a totally 'spec' looking part that is really proprietary....

Last prebuilt I had was a custom-spec Micron in mid-'99 and it used completely standard-to-spec parts. It still runs great for a friend to this date with nothing changed but an upgraded PSU and case fans.

 

[chizu]

Well, if I buy Dell's syste, I don't intend to take it out aparts to assemble another computer. Therefore I think it's a good buy. Is there any other reason why Dell sucks beside you can't take it apart to use it on another system? And from what I have researched, Dell uses a high quality power supply not just some genetic brand.

 

[EnderW]

if you're looking for a no frills budget machine, you can't beat dell, especially if you catch one of their killer deals

 

[Erasmus354]

Yes their deals are nice, but I feel like they use shoddy parts here and there, and it has shown on my laptop. I have had many intermittent problems off and on with my laptop for the entire time I have had it.

The port replicator does not work, even a new one they sent refuses to work. (some problem with it ignoring usb input devices after like 5 minutes, very odd)

The sound will randomly cut out on me and refuse to work, requiring sometimes multiple reboots and then it will start working again.

I recently had my harddrive fail.

I have had problems with the DVD drive.

And to top it all off, their support is mediocre....and I have dealt with them a lot. Many of the support techs they have aren't very knowledgeable, and their response to most things is "You have a virus" or "reinstall the drivers" or "ok I am going to send you a new part". Not to mention they all have accents so thick that most of them have to spell out everything they say using military style alphabet... "A as in alpha C as in Charlie" and so on.

Now the good thing about their support is that while I complain about it, it is still there, and if you are patient enough they usually do get your problem resolved, the most I have been on hold with them is maybe 30 minutes, and it seems like they do try to resolve issues.


Anyways, I cited all my problems as evidence of why I feel dell cuts too many corners. I feel that most of my intermittent problems are the cause of second rate components, and is exactly the reason why I cant wait to build my own rig this summer (had to get a dell laptop for school...besides when you have a 12% school discount on top of XXX dollars off it is a great deal)

 

[pxc]

Ignore the couple of ignorant opinions above. The 8400 is a nice system. You can't overclock the processor or RAM, and that's the only negative.

The "proprietary" comments are pure ignorance. The PSU is a ATX 12v (newer 24-pin style... dell stopped using non-standard PSUs with P4 systems), the drives are IDE and SATA, the memory is standard, the PCI and PCI-E cards are standard, etc. If someone can't get a modem to work from a Dell system, that says more about technical inability than anything else.

IMO, the Dell outlet has much better deals when specials are going on. You get the same warranty as new and most systems from the outlet are in mint condition.

 

[shadowbreaker513]

Well, if I buy Dell's syste, I don't intend to take it out aparts to assemble another computer. Therefore I think it's a good buy. Is there any other reason why Dell sucks beside you can't take it apart to use it on another system? And from what I have researched, Dell uses a high quality power supply not just some genetic brand.

They use (or at least used to) use DEER power supplies.

 

[shoes]

I, nor nobody i know, has had problems with a recent dell. Dell used to be kinda bad, but in recent years they have been great. From what you have said, Dell is the perfect choice for you. www.gotapex.com usually displays the best dell deals

 

[shadowbreaker513]

I've had 2 dell desktops and 1 laptop. Had nothing but problems with the laptop, and the most recent desktop has been acting really wierd lately. Tech support is a bunch of stupid idiots who can barely speak english.

 

[theHinge]

Fact, not ignorance, and I have the parts here to prove it. A good friend was totally hosed when sold an 'easily upgradable' P3 based systems with proprietary PSU pin-out that looked bone-stock (for over 3G's). It may have been in the past, but the documentation of the process & the fact that he GAVE me the system mobo/cpu/RAM/psu b/c he was so pissed pretty much sealed the deal for my own personal anti-Dell stance.It does run, put that wimpy 200W (was sold as a '300') and USB ports that forget they exist after 15 minutes (from day1) limits it to web-surfer only with minimumal peripherals. It is an XPS-B866r: 866/133 P3, Dell version of a VC820 mobo (nonstandard), Toshiba PC700 RIMM (should have been PC800), decently made 200W PSU (but wrong AND nonstandard). There is absolutely ZERO mention of the proprietary PSU in the original manual or even service manual.

It is only my opinion and should be taken as such, and now I have provided a good portion of the story to see where I am coming from. If they disclosed the PSU/mobo issues I would have zero issues with them but that is not the case, so fuck them.

Cheap? Sure - go buy one. Start upgrading one & watch the price quickly grow beyond what you could build yourself as a general rule. I should also probably add that I wouldn't want an H-P or Compaq for free after working on enough of them to be totally unimpressed. The overpriced Sonys seem OK but defeat the whole point.

Dell Outlet? That would be my choice if I went the Dell route.

<additional rant>
The P4 Dell I have at work leaves much to be desired. It could just be a bad one but on top of the previous Dell experience it further aggravates me... 3.0e with 512 of dual channel RAM. Not as reliable as that old P3 is and not really any faster doing my actual tasks while the HSF throttles up & down all day (it IS seated correctly) while kicking out huge heat. It likes to lock up regularly too, and tends not to free up RAM when progs are shut down. I took it out of the box & plugged it in, just as it arrived from Dell. This is doing lightly CPU-intensive stuff fwiw.
</additional rant>

Ignore the couple of ignorant opinions above. The 8400 is a nice system. You can't overclock the processor or RAM, and that's the only negative.

The "proprietary" comments are pure ignorance. The PSU is a ATX 12v (newer 24-pin style... dell stopped using non-standard PSUs with P4 systems), the drives are IDE and SATA, the memory is standard, the PCI and PCI-E cards are standard, etc. If someone can't get a modem to work from a Dell system, that says more about technical inability than anything else.

IMO, the Dell outlet has much better deals when specials are going on. You get the same warranty as new and most systems from the outlet are in mint condition.

 

[jon67]

Get a Dim 8400 if you get a good deal, it's probably a very stable system (got an ultra-stable 8300 myself) and every part of it is upgradable with standard components.

 

[Socrilles17]

correction the motherboard is proprietary everything else is upgradeable.

What I got the other day:

P4 630 2 mb $200
160 gig SATA w/ NCQ $50
512 mb ddr2 533 fsb $50
16x dvd burner and 16 x dvd rom $80
128 mb pci express x300se $50
win xp $35
925x mobo $60
case and PSU $25
keyboard and mouse $10
E173FP 17" LCD monitor $150
1704FP 17" LCD monitor w/ dvi $175

The above prices are the cheapest I think you could get the above parts and total abou $875 before tax and shipping. I paid $660 (oh and this wasn't outlet it was all brand new) you can't beat dell prices. I am also going to attempt to mod the 3 ghz p4 to run at 4 ghz, if that works it will be an amazing deal.

 

[Scali]

I believe the Dell motherboards are made by MSI...
It's all quality hardware in those things... and the new XPS systems even seem to have some overclocking functionality.

All in all, I am convinced, my next computer will probably be a Dell... Their PCs look good, are very silent, good reliability and service, and very competitive prices. And, I can customize them the way I want them... Most other brands only have mediocre videocards at best, so I'd need to add an aftermarket card.

I think you'll be very happy if you decide to buy a Dell.

 

[chizu]

If Dell uses MSI motherboard, Dell will be definitely my next purchase of pc. Does anyone know what's the temp for the Dell 8400? Hopefully it's under 40C because it seems to have a very big heatsink on the processor.

 

[Erasmus354]

If Dell uses MSI motherboard, Dell will be definitely my next purchase of pc. Does anyone know what's the temp for the Dell 8400? Hopefully it's under 40C because it seems to have a very big heatsink on the processor.

Why do you care about the temp? If you get a dell you wont be able to overclock it, there is 0 overclocking functionality on their motherboards aside from maybe the XPS systems

 

[chizu]

I just like my temp to behigh and I don't like overclocking so I guess that's why.

 

[jon67]

Why do you care about the temp? If you get a dell you wont be able to overclock it, there is 0 overclocking functionality on their motherboards aside from maybe the XPS systems

Is it possible to overclock the XPS systems, I didn't think it was? Because I''m getting a Gen4 w/ a 570J in a few weeks, so it would be interesting to know. My guess is that it's locked, but with the option of having the XPS support team unlock it against a warranty waiver...

 

[elfletcho]

Check the outlet at the end of hours. They add stuff then. You can get killer deals.

Bought a 8400 with a P4 650, 1GB Ram, 80GB HD, and x850xt PE card for $860. The CPU and vidcard itself retails at over 1000 bucks.

 

[Scroatdog]

I believe the Dell motherboards are made by MSI...
It's all quality hardware in those things... and the new XPS systems even seem to have some overclocking functionality.

All in all, I am convinced, my next computer will probably be a Dell... Their PCs look good, are very silent, good reliability and service, and very competitive prices. And, I can customize them the way I want them... Most other brands only have mediocre videocards at best, so I'd need to add an aftermarket card.

I think you'll be very happy if you decide to buy a Dell.

I picked up a few Dimension 4700's, and the motherboard in there is made by Foxconn.

At any rate, if you're interested in a 4700, PM me. If you end up going with an 8400, and want to add more parts such as memory or hard drive, pm me. I've got some DImension 4700 stuff available HERE

 

[GVX]

Why do you care about the temp? If you get a dell you wont be able to overclock it, there is 0 overclocking functionality on their motherboards aside from maybe the XPS systems

I guess that he could always use software to overclock (even though OC'ing that way gives very poor results at best).

I don't like Dell or any OEM for that matter. The last OEM that I had was a Compaq that came with a proprietary motherboard, and that gave me more than enough problems. Finding BIOS updates are very difficult (if not impossible). The BIOS is so badly locked up that you can't really do anything aside from changing the date and time. There are no instruction manuels that give info on the motherboard (so if you accidently pull out the softpower/HDD LED/Power LED wires there is no information on the proper configuration to replace them). Also, the mobo is laser imaged to backup discs, which forces you buy a new copy of windows+whatever software the PC came with if you decide you want to get rid of the POS motherboard down the road.

Dell's are only good for the average user who only knows how to check the Email and surf the internet.

 

[Socrilles17]

just OCed my 8400 to 4 ghz

 

[Scali]

just OCed my 8400 to 4 ghz

How exactly did you overclock it?

 

[jon67]

Dell's are only good for the average user who only knows how to check the Email and surf the internet.

Well I may be an average user, but I sure do a hell lot more than e-mailing and surfing with my Dim8300.

 

[Socrilles17]

soldered bsel1 to bsel2 on the processor (very small amount of solder and actually my sisters husband did it). And now happily running at 4 ghz (this is on the 3 ghz 630 processor).

 

[DiscoStu]

I think Dell makes a pretty solid desktop. I work for a school district that has some 1400 Dell's of various make and vintage. Aside from the occasional bad hard drive or PSU they're all pretty solid machines. If you want a quiet, stable machine with little fuss I say buy it. First thing i'd do though is reload the OS without all the excess Dell software.

I'm pretty sure Foxconn makes all of Dell's current motherboards and cases and I see mostly micron/cruical memory in our Dells.

 

[GVX]

Well I may be an average user, but I sure do a hell lot more than e-mailing and surfing with my Dim8300.

Okay, that last statement I made went a little overboard. sry if I offended anyone.

 

[chizu]

So what kind of temp. do you guys get with your Dell or any thoughts?

 

[elfletcho]

It think that heatpipe heatsink setup they got now for the LGA775's is pretty nice. Not sure what the temps are but seems to work well.

 

[Skrying]

Dells are nice for those who are really only looking for mild performance.

I'd like to see the temps on that 4Ghz, I have this funny feeling they are extremely high and wouldnt be surprised if you are throatling a bit. I've never seen a Dell manage even mildy decent temps, always way up there.

I've had bad experiences with Dells, but like most prebuilt systems they get me paid for repairs. What I have noticed is those who do have problems simply hate the tech support, they have a very hard time understanding the people on the other end and often times either hang up on the tech support or just tell them that they'll get it fixed at a local shop.

I've seen a lot of Dells with problem, though I see more HPs/Compaqs.

I think my main issue with Dells has been heat related or people actually getting worried when they once touched the side panal on a running Dell, so they come to me and ask what's wrong.

BTW: The inside of a Dell is a horrid mess of cables...... not good.

 

[pxc]

It think that heatpipe heatsink setup they got now for the LGA775's is pretty nice. Not sure what the temps are but seems to work well.

Yeah, the Cu/Al base heatpipes work fine. The processors don't throttle. Some of the older models (4550/8250) used different heatsinks depending on the processor. Most, if not all, of the new systems use the same heatsink for all processors.

Heat isn't much of a problem in the case because the CPU heat is directly ducted outside the case, not blown around inside the case like most home-built air cooled systems. And the 8400 is the roomiest ATX case (excluding the XPS) that Dell has. The 8400 cables are neatly routed and are in no way "messy".

I kind of like my new Optiplex GX280 minitower BTX system. It's pretty weird how air flow is straight through the case with *nothing* in-between. Dell is finally using rounded cables (not really rounded since it's not covered, but the cables are split and bound like rounded cables). And the video and PCI cards face "up", which is pretty cool.

 

[Dan_D]

Dell isn't that bad. Its not for the enthusiest. No AMD models at all.

The quality of their parts is fine. What I don't like are the craptastic plastic cases, the proprietary power design for the mobo's and PSU's. (Some but not all models) and of course they stick you with cheapend hardware from name brand companies in the interests of cost savings.

You get a 3Com modem, you get screwed with Dell drivers that aren't supported at all down the road. Same with Creative sound cards and even the video cards. Like the asstastic 6800GTO. Teh sound card is usually missing connectors for audio or inputs or the ability to be upgraded with the front panel stuff and the video card is missing pipelines.

These components are good enough quality to last, they just neuter them to save bucks. They warranty support sucks ass too. Its all crap from India. I work at a computer service center and we get alot of people that pay us to fix Dell's even under warranty, because while Dell will cover the parts, the customer is on their own for everything else. Shipping the units back for service sucks balls also.

MY issue is that you can do just as good or better for the same money.

 

[pxc]

The quality of their parts is fine. What I don't like are the craptastic plastic cases, the proprietary power design for the mobo's and PSU's. (Some but not all models) and of course they stick you with cheapend hardware from name brand companies in the interests of cost savings.

You get a 3Com modem, you get screwed with Dell drivers that aren't supported at all down the road. Same with Creative sound cards and even the video cards. Like the asstastic 6800GTO. Teh sound card is usually missing connectors for audio or inputs or the ability to be upgraded with the front panel stuff and the video card is missing pipelines.

These components are good enough quality to last, they just neuter them to save bucks.

Holy jeebus, this is a long one.

The cases are metal. Some cases have plastic panels covering the sides. Why? It keeps the case quieter.

Dell hasn't used a "proprietary" PSU since the Pentium 3 models *years* ago. All P4 systems use standard 20 or 24-pin ATX 12v PSUs. I thought this was a rumor that died years ago. *IF* (with an emphasis on if) you worked on these systems as you claimed, you should easily be able to recognize a standard ATX PSU pinout.

The parts are standard. Nothing is "cheapened". You can install drivers from the manufacturer if you want. I do since the manufacturer tends to have newer drivers. nvidia "created" the 6800GTO, not Dell. nvidia said it has 12 pipelines enabled on the NV45 core, so that's what it ships with. Creative sells both the full and value edition (fewer connectors) cards. The same models wind up in Dell systems. In fact, the *retail* Creative (Audigy 2 line and others) sound cards come with a strange white connector on top. Guess where that goes to? A Dell front panel!

Dell covers on-site service for both parts and labor for desktops. The only Dell warranty that has mail in service is the base laptop warranty... and Dell picks up and returns the laptops in under a week for no charge. ALL desktops have on-site service included for hardware problems. Software problems of course just get phone support, which i agree is pretty lame. Sadly, their phone support is consistently ranked #2 by a couple of percent behind Apple. FYI, that means that all other PC manufacturer support is WORSE than that, a fact I don't find hard to believe.

C'mon, don't make up stuff if you want to complain about Dell.

 

[Demon_of_The_Fall]

My friend recently bought a Dell 8400. It is complete and utter shit. Total total shit.

Here are the problems he has had with it in chronological order :

1. They sent him a DVD-ROM instead of DVD-RW
2. System started to turn off in games, Dell tech comes out and gives him a new gfx card.
3. System keeps turning off in games, dell tech gives him a new mobo.
4. Still turning off, gives him a new PSU at last. Who wudda thunk that a shitty brand 300Watt couldnt handle 2 HDDs, an X800XT, a P4 3.4 and A gig of RAM ? Surprise surprise.
5. I find that it's running a bit slow. Turns out HT was never turned on from the factory.
6. Hard drive fails. Loses everything on his RAID 0 Stripe.
7. They come out replace the drive and set up a new RAID 0 Stripe (I have no problem with RAID 0) except now it has 128kB blocks instead of 16kB which you need for speed.
8. System runs hot as a mofo, It actually BLASTS out the heat. I know P4s are notorious for this, but his PC has far more fans than mine, is much louder and the air coming out is hotter.

Decide for yourself if Dell know how to build a high end box and keep it running...

 

[pxc]

My friend recently bought a Dell 8400.

1. They sent him a DVD-ROM instead of DVD-RW
...
4. Still turning off, gives him a new PSU at last. Who wudda thunk that a shitty brand 300Watt couldnt handle 2 HDDs, an X800XT, a P4 3.4 and A gig of RAM ? Surprise surprise.
...
8. System runs hot as a mofo, It actually BLASTS out the heat. I know P4s are notorious for this, but his PC has far more fans than mine, is much louder and the air coming out is hotter.

My "friend" also recently bought one, but had the exact opposite experience.

Anyways, the PSU in #4 is actually 350W and would be rated at least 390W by any other manufacturer. Max power on the PSU is 150W on +3.3v & +5v, 28A @ 12v, 1A @ -12v and 2A on +5vsb = 508W, which is what a cheaper brand would advertise. And how did the tech solve the problem on #4? By giving him another 350W PSU.

I have a couple of 8400s right now and they don't "blast" heat (a P4 630 in one, P4 550 in the other, at least 2 hard drives in each, 1 or 2 optical drives, etc).

Dell does include an extra blower on systems that ship with hot video cards (anything with an external power connector... i.e. > 75W). Otherwise, the system only has 1 fan in the power supply, 1 fan ducted from the CPU shroud to outside (so CPU heat does not build up in the case) and whatever fan is on the video card. No fan is on the northbridge and there are no other intake or exhaust fans. Including the blower since that system you refer to includes an x800XT, that's 4 fans total.

If you have a typical air cooled system and a non-passive video card, you can't have less than 3 fans in your case (PSU, CPU, video card). Most power supplies have 2 fans installed and most motherboards have a fan on the northbridge, so excuse me if i'm skeptical when you say you have less than 4 fans.

 

[lithium726]

Dell hasn't used a "proprietary" PSU since the Pentium 3 models *years* ago. All P4 systems use standard 20 or 24-pin ATX 12v PSUs. I thought this was a rumor that died years ago. *IF* (with an emphasis on if) you worked on these systems as you claimed, you should easily be able to recognize a standard ATX PSU pinout.

what rumor? that they used proprietary on the p4 that they used it on teh p3/2? i know they didnt on the p4, but htey sure as hell did it on the p3/2 - i can get you pictures if you like, i have an XPS R450 sitting beside me.

 

[pxc]

what rumor? that they used proprietary on the p4 that they used it on teh p3/2? i know they didnt on the p4, but htey sure as hell did it on the p3/2 - i can get you pictures if you like, i have an XPS R450 sitting beside me.

Gee, how nice of you. The section you quoted clearly shows I wrote that the P3 Dells used a funky PSU.

edit: i don't know why you responded to that and seemed to take it personally since that was a reply to fragalot.

 

[lithium726]

you put proprietary in quotes. normally, that will imply that you are mocking hte use of that word - which tipped me off that you didnt think they ever did. sorry if i misinterpreted.

edit: no personal offence taken, just found it odd - thought you were denying their existance all together

 

[Donnie27]

My friend recently bought a Dell 8400. It is complete and utter shit. Total total shit.

Here are the problems he has had with it in chronological order :

1. They sent him a DVD-ROM instead of DVD-RW
2. System started to turn off in games, Dell tech comes out and gives him a new gfx card.
3. System keeps turning off in games, dell tech gives him a new mobo.
4. Still turning off, gives him a new PSU at last. Who wudda thunk that a shitty brand 300Watt couldnt handle 2 HDDs, an X800XT, a P4 3.4 and A gig of RAM ? Surprise surprise.
5. I find that it's running a bit slow. Turns out HT was never turned on from the factory.
6. Hard drive fails. Loses everything on his RAID 0 Stripe.
7. They come out replace the drive and set up a new RAID 0 Stripe (I have no problem with RAID 0) except now it has 128kB blocks instead of 16kB which you need for speed.
8. System runs hot as a mofo, It actually BLASTS out the heat. I know P4s are notorious for this, but his PC has far more fans than mine, is much louder and the air coming out is hotter.

Decide for yourself if Dell know how to build a high end box and keep it running...

Number 7 depends on if you're streaming or not! Video and Audio should move to the drive faster when larger blocks are used.

Larger hard drives can be custom ordered, so can better video cards or etc.

Dell got caught using cut rated very of all kinds of hardware, example Creative Sounds cut down for the asian markets, nVidia GF cards with fewer pipes, same for their ATI stuff. Then the got were warned and stopped as far as I know. Even Mikey Dell said they ended up with fewer profits for the cheaper parts.

We have a lot of problem free Dells at work.

Donnie27

 

[Demon_of_The_Fall]

Ok pxc you got me, never realised there were that few fans in his system going by the amount of noise it put out. My system actually has 5 fans, however it is much much quieter and still runs cooler. His one actually heats up the room that it's in. Most of this heat is coming from the powersupply, so theres obviously something dubious about whatever brand they use.