Why Microsoft Redesigned Windows

LeninGHOLA said:
The % of people using devices for "computing". Making phone calls, listening to music or texting wouldn't count.
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Why are discounting those activities? What is the salient difference between IM on a computer and texting on a phone, or skyping, or listening to music on a computer vs a phone?

Media consumption and communication are integral parts of the computing experience.
 
jimmyb said:
Texting and IM is part of what people have traditionally done on computers, so I think it should be be included.. Those activities aside, web browsing, maps, email, games, etc. are increasingly done on mobile, touch and laptop style devices.
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I don't agree. We have been able to text long before smartphones existed. Are we going to include PS Vita and Gameboy to the list as well?
 
jimmyb said:
Why are discounting those activities? What is the salient difference between IM on a computer and texting on a phone, or skyping, or listening to music on a computer vs a phone?

Media consumption and communication are integral parts of the computing experience.
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We would have to count iPods, portable CD players and all sorts of shit to the list then.
 
Krenum said:
Windows 8 is clearly designed with touch in mind, and many new Windows 8 PCs have touch screens. Why is touch so important?

"It’s a very natural way to interact. If you get a laptop with a touch screen, your brain clicks in and you just start touching what makes it faster for you. You’ll use the mouse and keyboard, but even on the regular desktop you’ll find yourself reaching up doing the things that are faster than moving the mouse and moving the mouse around. It’s not like using the mouse, which is more like puppeteering than direct manipulation".
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My computer monitor is currently not even within arm's reach, I still honestly don't understand the fascination with touch interfaces. All other things being equal, ok, touch would simply be an additional input method. But all other things aren't equal when you introduce touch, it jacks up the price and you end up with an OS that has dissociative identity disorder and applications that are either space/time efficient or touch friendly and not both.
SkribbelKat said:
It was successful so I'm okay with an 8/10. :D
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I jacked up your score because I know your mental impairment given you are an advocate for fantails. If you had the wisdom and experience to understand the superiority of comets, I'd have held you to a higher standard and expected more to obtain an 8/10.
 
DogChainX said:
LOL.

Fastforward 10 years when 30" LCD touch-screens are available and a new ergonomic worry has arrived: Having your arms stretched out for 8 hours a day.

Touch is great for tablets and what not, BUT LEAVE MY DESKTOP ALONE.
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Everyone will have shredded shoulders, we'll all look great!
 
jimmyb said:
Yes why not? They are being used as a replacement for activities traditionally done on a computer.
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They're great at hosting databases and have you seen the latest GameBoy word processor? I heard the PS Vita has a new printer driver from HP.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
We would have to count iPods, portable CD players and all sorts of shit to the list then.
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Absolutely, the question is whether other devices are replacing desktop computers. Those things compete for consumers on those tasks.
 
SkribbelKat said:
They're great at hosting databases and have you seen the latest GameBoy word processor? I heard the PS Vita has a new printer driver from HP.
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I'm not entirely sure what your point is; not all computers have the same capabilities (and that includes desktops).
 
jimmyb said:
I'm not entirely sure what your point is; not all computers have the same capabilities (and that includes desktops).
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Lets add calculators to the mix. Don't cut your dick on this orgy of PCB's. I'm also adding my car's computer, too! WHY THE FUCK NOT!?
 
Neurofreeze said:
Is that why I've been having so much trouble walking and chewing gum? :(
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Yes! That's true! (I know, you're going for involuntary learned muscle motion stuff to make a point.) Try to count two strings of numbers at the exact same time or use one hand to perform a long division problem while using the other to isolate a variable. Lemme know if you can manage to keep working to both solutions at once without stopping one to focus on the other. :p

Tudz said:
I jacked up your score because I know your mental impairment given you are an advocate for fantails. If you had the wisdom and experience to understand the superiority of comets, I'd have held you to a higher standard and expected more to obtain an 8/10.
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When you get around to buying 8 fantails and have used them in 12 different kinds of fish tanks that you got with an employee discount at Staples, lemme know. I think after you see how productive they make you, you'll get rid of all your comets.
 
wonderfield said:
A portable CD player competes with a desktop PC.

All right.
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On the task of playing CDs it certainly does. It's not very effective at making people give up PCs altogether because it lacks a great deal of the functionality that PCs offer, but that doesn't mean media consumption is not part of the computing experience - it absolutely is.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Lets add calculators to the mix. Don't cut your dick on this orgy of PCB's. I'm also adding my car's computer, too! WHY THE FUCK NOT!?
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Sure. Why not? If people use their car computers in lieu of desktops it is perfectly valid to view that as a shift in computer usage.
 
jimmyb said:
I'm not entirely sure what your point is; not all computers have the same capabilities (and that includes desktops).
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I'm just trying to help you by citing how capable these devices are and how they're most certainly computers like you say! Oh, hang on, my fluid simulation just finished and I need to put in my initials for the high score to be saved on my Golden Axe arcade machine.
 
DogChainX said:
LOL.

Fastforward 10 years when 30" LCD touch-screens are available and a new ergonomic worry has arrived: Having your arms stretched out for 8 hours a day.

Touch is great for tablets and what not, BUT LEAVE MY DESKTOP ALONE.
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I don't know why people think that touch and keyboards and mice are mutually exclusive. Touch on a larger vertically mounted monitor in a sitting position wouldn't be the way one would use the device constantly. Tapping something here and there would be the extent of most of it. However on a horizontally positioned display or a very large screen like a whiteboard, then touch and pen input becomes ideal.

The idea behind Windows 8 is that it is a hybrid, that you use the input methods you want appropriate for the situation.
 
Has anyone actually tried to use a desktop touchscreen monitor? My parents have a couple of those 27" HP touch pc things. Trying to use the touch functions made my arms/shoulders tired in a matter of seconds, and I'm not in horrible shape. I can't imagine how somebody got it in their head that extending your arm in front of you and moving it across the width of your monitor could be more efficient than moving a mouse a few cm.

Btw, I work basically next door to Microsoft, and find the majority of their employees completely self absorbed and completely out of touch with reality.
 
Wrecked Em said:
Has anyone actually tried to use a desktop touchscreen monitor? My parents have a couple of those 27" HP touch pc things. Trying to use the touch functions made my arms/shoulders tired in a matter of seconds, and I'm not in horrible shape. I can't imagine how somebody got it in their head that extending your arm in front of you and moving it across the width of your monitor could be more efficient than moving a mouse a few cm.

Btw, I work basically next door to Microsoft, and find the majority of their employees completely self absorbed and completely out of touch with reality.
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Oh hi! Welcome to the forum (kinda late). Just a couple of things...

1. Stop using logic and reason!

2. Wrecked Em...rectum? :eek:
 
Wrecked Em said:
Has anyone actually tried to use a desktop touchscreen monitor? My parents have a couple of those 27" HP touch pc things. Trying to use the touch functions made my arms/shoulders tired in a matter of seconds, and I'm not in horrible shape. I can't imagine how somebody got it in their head that extending your arm in front of you and moving it across the width of your monitor could be more efficient than moving a mouse a few cm.

Btw, I work basically next door to Microsoft, and find the majority of their employees completely self absorbed and completely out of touch with reality.
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It works fine on very small devices, but not so much on anything larger than a netbook or a tablet.
 
SkribbelKat said:
I'm just trying to help you by citing how capable these devices are and how they're most certainly computers like you say! Oh, hang on, my fluid simulation just finished and I need to put in my initials for the high score to be saved on my Golden Axe arcade machine.
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Ok so you're point, somewhat clouded by lazy sarcasm, is that desktops are much faster than mobile devices. Right, I agree.
 
jimmyb said:
On the task of playing CDs it certainly does.
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That's a fair point. I think back to my childhood, before the advent of portable CD players, when I would bring my desktop PC with me on the school bus each day. That was quite the ordeal, let me tell you. The portable CD player really changed the game for me, and pushed the desktop PC back into its rightful place in my home.

I still like to bring the old desktop with me when I go on hikes, though. Just for old time's sake, you know.
 
jimmyb said:
Ok so you're point, somewhat clouded by lazy sarcasm, is that desktops are much faster than mobile devices. Right, I agree.
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I actually don't really disagree at all with you that most stuff is pretty much a computer. :D I just thought it was a fun way to be absurd. Anyhow, you have a good point, but don't stretch it too far just to make your argument seem valid. It is valid after all, but this is a forum on the internets and we should all be laughing and acting stupid.
 
wonderfield said:
That's a fair point. I think back to my childhood, before the advent of portable CD players, when I would bring my desktop PC with me on the school bus each day. That was quite the ordeal, let me tell you. The portable CD player really changed the game for me, and pushed the desktop PC back into its rightful place in my home.

I still like to bring the old desktop with me when I go on hikes, though. Just for old time's sake, you know.
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I'm not really sure what your point is. People use desktops to play CDs and other music; they also use portable devices. Both have advantages and disadvantages as you note.

The question is whether the nature of computing has changed. If people are using other devices in place of a desktop, then it's fair to say it has changed; it doesn't matter how different the form-factor or broad the capabilities of the device are.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Are you saying Julie is an idiot?
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Just disregard his posts and assume it's comic relief. Why? Look at his signature. When you don't take him seriously, it makes a for a nice break in the flaming wars to chuckle a bit and realize it's not that serious.

LeninGHOLA said:
I think it still does primarily take place at a desk, with a monitor. Is that not correct?
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Depends on the definition of computing, and the definition of computing device. But it seems to be moving towards mobile devices from what I read and hear.

I do say that this quote was really what I was thinking whenever anything new is introduced.
I wonder if you’re experiencing a little déjà vu, after previously leading a radical change to the interface for Office that initially met with complaints.

Yes! A lot of it is familiar. Some people who review it for a shorter period of time may not feel how rich it really is. We’re going for the over time impression rather than the first 20 minutes out of the box. We’ve found that the more invested you were in the old way, the more difficult the transition is, which is unfortunate because we first hear about everything in the tech press. Those are the ones that we knew up front are going to have the most challenge.
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One thing to note about touchscreens on desktop monitors:

You don't HAVE to use the touchscreen features. When sitting down, I'm all about the mouse and keyboard. But if I'm up moving around and doing other stuff. I would love to have the ability to just reach out and touch a few things like playing some music, changing a youtube video, or some other use case for when you actually get out of your computer chair.
 
Of all people, LeninGHOLA is one of the least likely to take a Skribbel seriously.
 
images
 
Well, no, the form factor is kind of important, as my post alludes to. A desktop PC is an inherently non-portable device. A portable CD player is not used in lieu of a PC: it is used as a supplement to a PC in scenarios where a desktop PC cannot be used.

You argued that a PC and a portable CD player compete on the task of playing music. They do not. One is used in one environment; the other in an entirely different environment.
 
jimmyb said:
I'm not really sure what your point is. People use desktops to play CDs and other music; they also use portable devices. Both have advantages and disadvantages as you note.

The question is whether the nature of computing has changed. If people are using other devices in place of a desktop, then it's fair to say it has changed; it doesn't matter how different the form-factor or broad the capabilities of the device are.
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The problem is that you're stretching the statement to levels of almost complete abstraction. The quote we are debating was specifically targeted at devices running windows, or competing operating systems. Not Roombas.

It was followed by a statement that, somehow, reaching up and touching a screen (even on a desktop), is faster than moving the wrist a fraction of an inch. I could insult the author and Julie Larson-Green, but I think they are doing a fair job of it themselves.
 
I'm running 8 a work and at home... that being said:

I will NOT use any form of a touch screen for any screen I have to look at all day. The fingerprints drive me nuts, even my tablet needs a good cleaning after every use. Seriously a lack of thought here. Microsoft can go into ANY office and look at almost ANY screen. If the person there isn't either OCD or cleaned their screen recently, that screen will be covered with dust that the static collects. This is already bad enough, but then to add fingerprints all over it? What the heck were they thinking???

PLUS, someone won't use their finger. They'll use their pen or such on the LCD, either scratching it or otherwise damaging it. This is just a case of not thinking things through all the way... Hopefully the newer screens will be more like touchpads and better protected, but this won't stop some kid from trying it on a non touch screen.

I can easily see that different versions for different uses would be smart. Too bad Microsoft didn't.
 
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