Why is Sonic CDs level designs so...odd?

Azureth

Azureth

Supreme [H]ardness
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Now I am a HUGE fan of the Sonic games, mainly the Genesis games and have played SCD before but recently bought it on Steam. Now, the gameplay itself is fun as always, but my main issue is the level designs seem...all over the place. Lots of bumpers put strange places just to bounce you everywhere, which can get very annoying, Wacky Workbench is the worst offender.

I can see a good game in there but I just find the level designs not as much fun to play through as the Genesis Sonics. Look at this:

scd-ss-zone1amap.png


What were they THINKING!?

I also find the time gimmick interesting but personally don't find it implemented well, I hate how difficult it can be to get enough speed and not hit anything to use it.
 
Stardust Speedway 1 does suck in the present, but you're not supposed to spend much time there. You'll notice there are two excellent time travel locations accessible by dropping down the first gap.

I do agree with you on Wacky Workbench though. It's junk.
 
Wait, Sonic CD is an old game brought current right?

That would explain the old level design?
 
schizrade said:
Wait, Sonic CD is an old game brought current right?

That would explain the old level design?
Click to expand...

It's just an old game encased in a built in emulator that is sold on Steam. Sega has a big collections of classics that they sell and Sonic CD is one of those games.
 
Time2Kill said:
It's just an old game encased in a built in emulator that is sold on Steam. Sega has a big collections of classics that they sell and Sonic CD is one of those games.
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lol.. I think schizrade was poking fun at OP about Sega CD being too non-linear for OP brain :p


OOHPy6y.gif
 
Sonic CD was one of if not my absolute favorite of the Sonic Games. Only Sonic 2 comes close for me.
 
See, and this is exactly why people that say CD is better than 3 & Knuckles are completely wrong.
3 & Knuckles is the pinnacle of Sonic the Hedgehog level design. CD comes second. Wacky Workbench is a convoluted mess, worse than Labyrinth Zone in Sonic 1.
 
Wasn't Sonic CD not made by the original Sonic team? Pretty sure it was made by Sega in Japan because Sonic Team was in the USA at the time. That could account for the discrepancy in the gameplay.

Also - Sonic CD is my least favorite of the 16-bit Sonic games. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is my favorite, then Sonic 2, then Sonic. Sonic CD? Pft - pass.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Wasn't Sonic CD not made by the original Sonic team? Pretty sure it was made by Sega in Japan because Sonic Team was in the USA at the time. That could account for the discrepancy in the gameplay.
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Yup.
Yuji Naka wasn't even part of it. During that time, he was doing Sonic 2 with STI in USA.
 
I found it a departure from the other sonic games for sure but i didn't think it was bad, just different. More of a puzzle platformer. Finding the correct way to beat the levels with time travel was interesting, it would have really benefited from a level/zone restart feature though.
 
LeviathanZERO said:
Yup.
Yuji Naka wasn't even part of it. During that time, he was doing Sonic 2 with STI in USA.
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Correct! The locations they visited while in the USA helped inspire the levels like Casino Night.

I've said this in a video game forum awhile back but it's a damn shame that Sega was so intent on making a 3D Sonic game for the Saturn. In my humble opinion, a Sonic game that was 2D on the Saturn (that 2D powerhouse console) would have been fucking epic. Fucking epic I tell you.

Actually - thinking about a 2D Sonic game on the Saturn that utilized the 4MB RAM Cart just gives me the heeby-jeebies... :D

Sega... Why.... :mad:
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Correct! The locations they visited while in the USA helped inspire the levels like Casino Night.

I've said this in a video game forum awhile back but it's a damn shame that Sega was so intent on making a 3D Sonic game for the Saturn. In my humble opinion, a Sonic game that was 2D on the Saturn (that 2D powerhouse console) would have been fucking epic. Fucking epic I tell you.

Actually - thinking about a 2D Sonic game on the Saturn that utilized the 4MB RAM Cart just gives me the heeby-jeebies... :D

Sega... Why.... :mad:
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It would have probably sold as well as Castlevania SOTN. (Not very good, just because it wasn't 3D.) This was when Mario 64 changed everything and everyone wanted a 3D Sonic, but for... some... reason, SEGA couldn't make it "work". Whatever that means... You would think they would know the hardware they themselves designed...
You'll take Sonic R and like it!
 
LeviathanZERO said:
It would have probably sold as well as Castlevania SOTN. (Not very good, just because it wasn't 3D.) This was when Mario 64 changed everything and everyone wanted a 3D Sonic, but for... some... reason, SEGA couldn't make it "work". Whatever that means... You would think they would know the hardware they themselves designed...
You'll take Sonic R and like it!
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True. But at the very least we probably would be looking at it now as one of the best games ever. But for now - all we have is "Living in the City" and other classic songs from THAT game. Lol!
 
Sonic CD was, for all its faults, one of the best reasons to own a Sega CD/Mega CD.
 
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LeviathanZERO said:
Sadly, if I can add.
One could probably count all the good CD games with both hands. Exclusives? One hand. (Kojima's Snatcher is imho #1 by far)
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Sadly, but truthfully. Snatcher was awesome, but I would expect no less from Kojima-san.
 
OK here's the backstory as I understand it: When Sonic 1 launched on the Genesis, the emphasis was on both speed and platforming. When it got ported to the SMS/GG, because of their technical limitations, more emphasis was put on the platforming aspect then the speed aspect.

Going ahead, Sonic 2 and Sonic CD were developed at the same time; that's why Sonic CD reuses Sonic 1's resources in a lot of places. One team developed each title. And it was the SMS/GG team that ended up with Sonic CD, hence it's focus on platforming, where Sonic 2 was more speed oriented by contrast.

Hence the level designs. Sonic CD was a very good concept, but I feel the implementation was bungled.
 
map design in general seems different now. More linear and less open... I wish I could find that video/webpage that was comparing old games map design and new games map design. seems new games traded open spacious levels for more linear and detail. one of the things I liked about halo 1-3 level design, they had a starting point and end point, with often times giving you quite a bit of room to go from that point to another how you pleased. where as other shooters, was pretty much more straight path.
 
LeviathanZERO said:
It would have probably sold as well as Castlevania SOTN. (Not very good, just because it wasn't 3D.) This was when Mario 64 changed everything and everyone wanted a 3D Sonic, but for... some... reason, SEGA couldn't make it "work". Whatever that means... You would think they would know the hardware they themselves designed...
You'll take Sonic R and like it!
Click to expand...

Technically we had Sonic 3D Blast, but I guess that was more isometric than true 3D.
 
MavericK96 said:
Technically we had Sonic 3D Blast, but I guess that was more isometric than true 3D.
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Traveler's Tales actually did a fantastic job if you consider the time pressure they were under. Only thing I don't like about it is that the load times seem to be a little on the longer side of the spectrum. I really dug the different sound track (Richard Jacques kicked some ass), and I really liked the different weather effects and transparency. But that doesn't save the fact that it was just a Genesis games with more pop.
 
gamerk2 said:
OK here's the backstory as I understand it: When Sonic 1 launched on the Genesis, the emphasis was on both speed and platforming. When it got ported to the SMS/GG, because of their technical limitations, more emphasis was put on the platforming aspect then the speed aspect.

Going ahead, Sonic 2 and Sonic CD were developed at the same time; that's why Sonic CD reuses Sonic 1's resources in a lot of places. One team developed each title. And it was the SMS/GG team that ended up with Sonic CD, hence it's focus on platforming, where Sonic 2 was more speed oriented by contrast.

Hence the level designs. Sonic CD was a very good concept, but I feel the implementation was bungled.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Thanks for sharing. Sonic 2 definitely picked up the pace, as far as speed went. But in my opinion, they also did some really good platforming in there too. I don't know - I could see why some would argue it to be the best Sonic game ever created (though my favorite was Sonic 3 and Knuckles). Sonic CD? Not so much.
 
MavericK96 said:
Technically we had Sonic 3D Blast, but I guess that was more isometric than true 3D.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wouldn't call it 3D and that game sucked.
The physics were all jacked up, Sonic's acceleration was laggy and you cant see where you are going at full speed, so thats not fun for a Sonic game. It never feels like a Sonic game.
But next to Mario 64? Haha, 3D Blast is nothing but a crap game. Try again SEGA...
 
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