Why hatred of Vista?

[brom42]

i don't like vista because network transfers are a lot slower.

Try these. In fact everyone should install these. It got rid of a bunch of annoyances in Vista and improved my network speed. Hotfixes FTW!!

KB938979 - An update is available that improves the performance and reliability of Windows Vista

KB938194 - An update is available that improves the compatibility and reliability of Windows Vista

KB941649 - An update is available that improves the compatibility, reliability, and stability of Windows Vista

Here are the hotfixes recommended by nVidia: http://www.nvidia.com/object/windows_vista_hotfixes.html

Do a search for Vista hotfixes, there are a bunch more. These are all things that will be included in SP1, but you can get them individually for now.

 

[XOR != OR]

You can honestly say you have a gaming class rig and you dual boot and mostly use XP? XP is simply stiff, slow and buggy compared to Vista. Especially on a high end rig.

Wait, what?

Go ahead and explain this to me.

 

[digital_exhaust]

Wait, what?

Go ahead and explain this to me.

Yeah... I agree, I really don't understand your thinking here either...

And I have been a fairly outspoken Vista supporter sine the early beta days, soooo........

 

[Scali2]

I am not saying vista is bad, but really what is it offering other than playing catch up against its competing operating systems.

Does it have to be about competing against other OSes then?
I have a large codebase for Windows (and Windows only), and Vista allows me to painlessly use that codebase in a fast and scalable 64-bit environment (yes I used XP x64 aswell, but it was a bit like being on a desert island... nobody else seems to be using it, even though the OS is fantastic. With Vista, regular users are actually moving to x64 aswell).
I am also developing with DX10 now... I know there are competitors like OpenGL on other OSes, but that doesn't matter to me, because Windows is what we use, and Direct3D is what we use. It's about what matters to us, not them. Had I chosen for OpenGL, then things may have been different. But at the time, there were a lot of good reasons for going Direct3D, and many of those reasons still hold today.
So I'm just looking for a better, more up-to-date Windows, I'm not looking for a linux. It may be able to do everything I need on paper, but that doesn't actually make it run my code and applications.
So I'll just continue playing with my new DX10 toys then.

 

[brom42]

Wait, what?

Go ahead and explain this to me.

That is quite simple. XP-64 sucks. It is the read headed stepchild of XP. Drive support sucks and they tend to be buggy. So if you are like me and have a quad core rig with 8GB of ram, Vista-64 runs 10x better, smoother and is much more stable than XP-64.

I guess since high end gaming rigs tend to have 4GB of ram these days, it would definitely make Vista the preferred choice over XP-64.

However I agree with you, if it is comparing 32 bit XP to 32 bit Vista, it makes no sense.

 

[Scali2]

That is quite simple. XP-64 sucks. It is the read headed stepchild of XP. Drive support sucks and they tend to be buggy. So if you are like me and have a quad core rig with 8GB of ram, Vista-64 runs 10x better, smoother and is much more stable than XP-64.

I wouldn't know. I have two systems with XP x64, and they both have Intel chipsets. Intel does good drivers for x64 apparently.
One is a Pentium D 940 overclocked to about 4.2 GHz on a 975X chipset with a Radeon X1900XTX.
The other is an E6600 overclocked to 3 GHz on a 965 chipset with a GeForce 8800GTS.

I developed some 64-bit code on it, which ran significantly faster than the 32-bit version.
PD was about 20% faster (don't ask me why, it just does), C2D about 5%.

Since this code involves some DirectX 9 code, it runs quite a bit faster in XP. I'm now porting that part over to DX10 to see if I can get that bit of performance back.
Basically I got around 520 fps on the E6600 in XP x64, and 'only' about 470 fps in Vista x64.
If I remove the DX9 component from the equation, and only run the CPU-related code, XP and Vista are about equal.
But XP x64 is certainly an OS that performs properly, on the right hardware.
We also use the machines for gaming, and most games run just like they do in the 32-bit XP. Far Cry and Crysis have optimized 64-bit binaries and actually run faster.
Stability is not an issue, not even with our overclocking practices.
We do use quality power supplies (Thermaltake ToughPower 750 and Enermax Galaxy 850) and ample case ventilation, that may make a difference.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

Does it have to be about competing against other OSes then?
I have a large codebase for Windows (and Windows only), and Vista allows me to painlessly use that codebase in a fast and scalable 64-bit environment (yes I used XP x64 aswell, but it was a bit like being on a desert island... nobody else seems to be using it, even though the OS is fantastic. With Vista, regular users are actually moving to x64 aswell).
I am also developing with DX10 now... I know there are competitors like OpenGL on other OSes, but that doesn't matter to me, because Windows is what we use, and Direct3D is what we use. It's about what matters to us, not them. Had I chosen for OpenGL, then things may have been different. But at the time, there were a lot of good reasons for going Direct3D, and many of those reasons still hold today.
So I'm just looking for a better, more up-to-date Windows, I'm not looking for a linux. It may be able to do everything I need on paper, but that doesn't actually make it run my code and applications.
So I'll just continue playing with my new DX10 toys then.

Isn't it about competing, why buy product a over product b?

 

[Scali2]

Isn't it about competing, why buy product a over product b?

As I say, the rules in computerland are different. Product a runs my applications, product b doesn't.
Hence, product b isn't competing by default. It operates in a different ecosystem. An ecosystem that I at one point chose not to be part of, and a decision that I cannot turn around easily.

 

[DOpamine]

Its because it spies on its users , it doesnt let the user who paid for it do whatever he or she wants , you cant obtain the source code or modify the OS in any way , its insecure - if anyone thinks that UAC will make vista secure they will be in for a major shock and ofcourse it it part of a monopoly and to use it will re-enforce this monopoly

 

[As I Lay Dying]

As I say, the rules in computerland are different. Product a runs my applications, product b doesn't.
Hence, product b isn't competing by default. It operates in a different ecosystem. An ecosystem that I at one point chose not to be part of, and a decision that I cannot turn around easily.

err....I think you are missing my point, I am saying what sort of features and functionality is it offering to the general group, not you. Most people do not write their own custom applications. Two there are alternative applications available. So no not really the same rules apply to computerland. Some times yes, I agree you have no option but for the most, products in computerland do have to compete.

 

[Scali2]

err....I think you are missing my point, I am saying what sort of features and functionality is it offering to the general group, not you. Most people do not write their own custom applications. Two there are alternative applications available. So no not really the same rules apply to computerland. Some times yes, I agree you have no option but for the most, products in computerland do have to compete.

It's not just about custom applications.
Even regular things like Office, or PhotoShop or whatever.
You can't just move your documents over to linux, because you can't read them.
Sure, like linux being able to perform most tasks that Windows can, there are applications that can perform most tasks that Office or PhotoShop can. But as long as they cannot actually use your existing base of documents (properly), what use are they?
I think this is actually the majority of people. In fact, there are cases of government institutions evaluating a move to OpenOffice and/or linux, and eventually had to bail because it would be too much hassle to convert all their existing documents and custom applications. Most companies work this way. They've got all their Office templates, and all their documents stored in Office formats, and using custom macros, VB scripts, custom Windows apps, etc. If it was possible to move, I think a lot of them would have done so a long time ago.

So the only 'competition' is between XP and Vista... but this is not actually competition, as they are subsequent generations of the same productline, by the same company. We all know that support for XP will eventually end, and Vista will remain the only option... Until the next version comes around ofcourse, and we'll go all over this whining again

 

[MattyC]

Most people do not write their own custom applications. ...there are alternative applications available.

Even if you don't write your own applications you may not have alternatives available that you want to use.

I mean I could stop using Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and Illustrator. I am aware of (and to a smaller degree use) the Gimp, Inkscape, and a variety of tools for my web development. I also have a copy of Crossover. I could use these, so while they are alternatives I wouldn't want to use them over what I know and what works.

This throws any Linux distro out the window and leaves me with OS X and Windows. No matter what features Linux might have, it isn't in the running because for my work use a 'nix install is not much better than no OS at all. This isn't to say it is flawed, it just isn't in the running because it isn't useful. Sure I could go through loops and get it to run through Crossover or just do my own WINE thing, but why go through added layers when I don't have to? When I need to sit down and do work I am not thinking about how my OS install choice will impact OSS or anything

I think a lot of people are in similar situations. Yes, an alternative technically exists... but no one wants to dump what they know, what works, and what they have invested in for something new that may not work as well, or at all, just for some other feature. If they can't get done what they need to do then other features don't matter.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

It's not just about custom applications.
Even regular things like Office, or PhotoShop or whatever.
You can't just move your documents over to linux, because you can't read them.
Sure, like linux being able to perform most tasks that Windows can, there are applications that can perform most tasks that Office or PhotoShop can. But as long as they cannot actually use your existing base of documents (properly), what use are they?
I think this is actually the majority of people. In fact, there are cases of government institutions evaluating a move to OpenOffice and/or linux, and eventually had to bail because it would be too much hassle to convert all their existing documents and custom applications. Most companies work this way. They've got all their Office templates, and all their documents stored in Office formats, and using custom macros, VB scripts, custom Windows apps, etc. If it was possible to move, I think a lot of them would have done so a long time ago.

So the only 'competition' is between XP and Vista... but this is not actually competition, as they are subsequent generations of the same productline, by the same company. We all know that support for XP will eventually end, and Vista will remain the only option... Until the next version comes around ofcourse, and we'll go all over this whining again

Open office can open all previous office documents with the exception of OfficeOpenXML formats. You know what you are talking about so you would know that if there is a switch from one system to another, you obviously know that there is a transitional period, not as simple as a flick of a light switch. Also since you made the comment can I ask which government thought about moving to open office and decided not to switch because they are locked into the office format? Ironically this is a great reason why open standards should be adopted, but before I digress, I could google this, but I believe the onus is on you.

Also would you like me to show office 07, and photoshop running on my ubuntu box???

 

[Scali2]

Even if you don't write your own applications you may not have alternatives available that you want to use.

Exactly, it's not like eg with CPUs... Whether you throw in an Intel or AMD, your stuff will usually work.
Same with videocards... ATi or nVidia? Doesn't matter for the most part.
There you are free to focus on other things, like technical features, price, performance etc, because basic functionality is pretty much guaranteed.

But when I boot into linux instead of Windows, well suddenly nothing works. I can't run my applications, I can't open my documents... I can't get any work done. I'd have to start all over. Install and learn new applications, convert all my data over (if that even is a possibility, usually a lot of things get lost along the way).... and then what? Is there really a significant gain after all this? For most, there isn't.

Not that I am a Windows-only user or developer. Not at all. In fact, I run a server at home, which runs on FreeBSD. Now there the situation is reversed. I've been using that for so long that it'd be hard to move it over to Windows. I've also developed various things with Java, so they pretty much work everywhere.
But still, this is a Windows world, and often you just need to use Windows, because that is what everyone else uses.

 

[DOpamine]

Open office can open all previous office documents with the exception of OfficeOpenXML formats. You know what you are talking about so you would know that if there is a switch from one system to another, you obviously know that there is a transitional period, not as simple as a flick of a light switch. Also since you made the comment can I ask which government thought about moving to open office and decided not to switch because they are locked into the office format? Ironically this is a great reason why open standards should be adopted, but before I digress, I could google this, but I believe the onus is on you.

Also would you like me to show office 07, and photoshop running on my ubuntu box???

Its all funny handshakes and kickbacks , the reasons ms are dominating like they are at the moment is A: piracy , B: new computers being sold with whatever windows is latest ( no choice there ) and C: underhanded tactics ( they have been to court and lost more than once )
MS have never given the users what they want , only what ms says they want.

 

[MattyC]

I imagine if piracy was king atm then Linux would also be king, unless people get off on copyright violations

You were right on computers coming with it, though the version is pretty standard. Apple ships its new OS with its new machines etc.

However you missed a big thing: software and drivers.

More also needs to be done on the Joe User front if they want to gain more of the desktop market. Grandma is so not compiling source and finding dependencies to get to pogo.com or whatever Linux has come a long way in that department, but it still has a long way to go. I would trust most anyone to be able to complete a Vista install, for example - hey at least I am trying to keep us on topic, but I was unable to get Ubuntu 7.10 working right on my laptop (yes I admit it ) and if I get annoyed and give up, I don't see a lot of semi-computer-literate people sticking with it.

 

[CptFalcon]

Its all funny handshakes and kickbacks , the reasons ms are dominating like they are at the moment is A: piracy , B: new computers being sold with whatever windows is latest ( no choice there ) and C: underhanded tactics ( they have been to court and lost more than once )
MS have never given the users what they want , only what ms says they want.

Boom here's the dipshit that is going to turn this thread into a discussion about why there is so mush hatred toward Vista to a total one on one against Linux.

OP just shut down the thread as it is.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

*sigh* this isn't a linux vs vista thread, all I said was vista has to offer new features and functionality, in my case vista besides direct x 10 is lagging behind my osx and linux machines. While some companies/people are locked, some others are not, if Windows does not offer new features, remember word perfect was once a defacto standard.

 

[DOpamine]

Boom here's the dipshit that is going to turn this thread into a discussion about why there is so mush hatred toward Vista to a total one on one against Linux.

OP just shut down the thread as it is.

Nice to see you too , if you had read ANYTHING i have previously written in other threads then you'd know that linux is just a kernel.

Dipshit ?? PM me your address and we'll see if thats what you say to me face to face

 

[CptFalcon]

Nice to see you too , if you had read ANYTHING i have previously written in other threads then you'd know that linux is just a kernel.

Dipshit ?? PM me your address and we'll see if thats what you say to me face to face

Hmm, I don't think so.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

I feel like all of sudden this thread has deteriorated from a conversation into a linux nerd on his segway, whipping everyone in site with a tape drive cable.

 

[MattyC]

is lagging behind my osx and linux machines

What is it lacking that you are looking for besides network audio?

If you just need the network audio for music there are (well were anyway, I haven't needed it in some time) Winamp plugins for those. Again, not sure if that is what you need it for, but just thought I would mention it.

 

[CptFalcon]

I feel like all of sudden this thread has deteriorated from a conversation into a linux nerd on his segway, whipping everyone in site with a tape drive cable.

Ya think?!

 

[As I Lay Dying]

apt-get or die !!!

 

[MattyC]

Hmm.. can't say I have thought of needing that in Windows, but I will none the less add it to my list of demanded new features. Have to make sure I keep adding to that, otherwise I am danger of becoming content with my current setup. Sure that SOUNDS great, but then what excuse would I have to upgrade to new toys?

 

[MooCow]

Well I don't have it installed on any of my systems, but my brother got a laptop with Vista home and there's one annoying problem saving WPA2 wireless keys. It used to save the keys, but then all of a sudden this problem happened a couple weeks ago.

You enter the key, and when you suspend the laptop and try to reconnect, it forgets the password.

I've tried googling for it and found a few posts about the similar problem, but no solutions.

I can see why some people might hate it cause you already got to have patches, fixes, etc. when they could have just stayed with XP and had something working from the start.

I don't hate vista, but at the same time I'm not rushing on the bandwagon cause I'm comfortable with XP SP2 at the moment. It works, and I want it to stay that way. Also I keep XP very stripped down, I only have 14 or so processes running at bootup. I keep the all bloatware and the web browsing on another computer. The thought of another OS hogging up resources and reading how to tweak it is something I don't have time for at the moment and I can wait.

If anyone has a fix for this wireless key problem please post link. Thanks.

 

[DOpamine]

Hmm, I don't think so.

Didnt think so , its easy to attack people behind the warm comforting glow of your monitor. If you'd be so kind as to elaborate on why i'm a dipshit then i'll read and consider your arguments , same goes for why FREE/open sourced platforms are inferior to vista

or you can just stop with the personal attacks unless you've got something to back them up with

*sigh* this isn't a linux vs vista thread, all I said was vista has to offer new features and functionality, in my case vista besides direct x 10 is lagging behind my osx and linux machines. While some companies/people are locked, some others are not, if Windows does not offer new features, remember word perfect was once a defacto standard.

No its not a linux vs vista thread , its a why hate vista thread and the answers are simple , read my previous post

I feel like all of sudden this thread has deteriorated from a conversation into a linux nerd on his segway, whipping everyone in site with a tape drive cable.

arent we all nerds here ? and vista users drive trans-am's with flared wheel arches ? smoke cigars and look cool while all the chicks gather round "digging" them and their cool OS ?

The underlying problems with all microsoft products is they arent FREE which means the end users have no control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3uX5XwdN_8
mr stallman can explain it all far better than i can...

 

[lAciDl]

ill start with saying im not a fan of vista. i have it on my laptop right now. and for what i use my laptop for (network configuring/diagnosing) i hate it. the new menus are horrible and to get to where i want takes many more steps then xp.

mainly i just hate the new networking controls in vista. driver support has been fine for me as well as software.

 

[TechieSooner]

1. it spies on its users
2. doesnt let the user who paid for it do whatever he or she wants
3. you cant obtain the source code or modify the OS in any way
4.its insecure - if anyone thinks that UAC will make vista secure they will be in for a major shock
5. it it part of a monopoly and to use it will re-enforce this monopoly

I numbered your claims.
1- Proof? People claim this all the time- yet fail to provide any evidence of said "fact".
2- Example?
3- So- this is a problem with Vista because...???? Windows has always been like this. Why on earth do you expect it to be any different?
4- Major shock how? Example?
5- Now if that doesn't sum up your post, I don't know what is. Anyone making this statement is 97% of the time an anti-Microsoft fanatic.

new computers being sold with whatever windows is latest ( no choice there )

Given the fact that Dell is offering Ubuntu, XP, and Vista right now? There is no option? BS.

MS have never given the users what they want , only what ms says they want.

I guess this explains why Microsoft took the opinions of over 100,000 users, and developed Vista. Largest ever input- and they tell their users what to do? Once more: BS.

I can see why some people might hate it cause you already got to have patches, fixes, etc. when they could have just stayed with XP and had something working from the start.

What- XP doesn't have patches and fixes? This is hardly a reason against Vista.
I'd rather have updates vs. a system that isn't updated (Microsoft's turn around for fixes in Vista has been rather impressive). Every OS I know has updates... Are we now wishing Vista not to be updated? Who are you going to blame for a security hole that might pop up, if it isn't updated?

The thought of another OS hogging up resources and reading how to tweak it is something I don't have time for at the moment and I can wait.
If anyone has a fix for this wireless key problem please post link. Thanks.

Actually, the majority of "tweaks" for XP can be used under Vista. It's just that Vista makes so many tweaks unnecessary now.

Can't help you with your wireless issue- as I have dozens of laptops that are working fine with it right now... First I've heard of this problem.
Did you check under the "Advanced Settings" section and check the profile of that connection? You may want to start a new thread for this.

the new menus are horrible and to get to where i want takes many more steps then xp.
mainly i just hate the new networking controls in vista. driver support has been fine for me as well as software.

Actually- with the new search functionality- just about everything is faster to get to. You just have to get used to using the search functionality (something I am still working on myself).
I'll give you the networking difficulty... I think Microsoft tried to make it too smart- some of the things it does are great for most issues with the ignorant end users, but it personally drives me nuts at times.

 

[DOpamine]

http://badvista.fsf.org/

all is explained there , if you dont want to look thats fine but dont argue if you dont want to


EDIT: and an anti-microsoft fanatic is bad in what way ?

 

[TechieSooner]

http://badvista.fsf.org/
all is explained there

Not to be a PITA about this, but if you make the claims- you back it up. I'm not searching through a site for you.

EDIT: and an anti-microsoft fanatic is bad in what way ?

Well, for one... Making unsupported, false, or inaccurate claims about absolutely everything, regardless of logic and reason, simply because the big, bad corporation Microsoft stamped their logo on it.

 

[w1retap]

heh, I didn't know people suffered that bad from Vista Derangement Syndrome.

 

[heatlesssun]

Its because it spies on its users , it doesnt let the user who paid for it do whatever he or she wants , you cant obtain the source code or modify the OS in any way , its insecure - if anyone thinks that UAC will make vista secure they will be in for a major shock and ofcourse it it part of a monopoly and to use it will re-enforce this monopoly

This is why there is a perceived hatred of Vista. People spreading misinformation and unsubstantiated rumor.

How does Vista "spy" on users? If you're talking WGA, it DOES NOT collect any personal information. To my knowledge, there's never been any type identify theft or obtainment of personal information because of WGA. One literally could be at a greater chance of being spied on by making a phone call. Ever heard of the Patriot Act and FISA?

You say that UAC doesn't help make Vista more secure? You offer no proof. As far as Vista security flaws, there just haven't been as many for Vista in its first year as XP.

Now that drivers are pretty solid, using Vista has been fantastic for me on all five machines that I've installed it on. It's a great OS, sure it has it flaws, but they are over exaggerated by the anti-Microsoft crowed.

Vista FTW!!!

 

[heatlesssun]

http://badvista.fsf.org/

all is explained there , if you dont want to look thats fine but dont argue if you dont want to


EDIT: and an anti-microsoft fanatic is bad in what way ?

Fanatics tend to be blinded to the reality around them. That's what's bad about them.

 

[DOpamine]

Not to be a PITA about this, but if you make the claims- you back it up. I'm not searching through a site for you.


Well, for one... Making unsupported, false, or inaccurate claims about absolutely everything, regardless of logic and reason, simply because the big, bad corporation Microsoft stamped their logo on it.

1- Proof? People claim this all the time- yet fail to provide any evidence of said "fact".

Windows Genuine Advantage - also can you pull the source code and see what the entire OS does and how it does it ? no so you dont know what else its doing

2- Example?

DRM , yes i want to make a backup of a dvd , is this permitted ? shouldnt it be down to me to decide to backup or not ?

3- So- this is a problem with Vista because...???? Windows has always been like this. Why on earth do you expect it to be any different?

No its a problem with all proprietary software

4- Major shock how? Example?

Do you know what a security model is ? do you know what a security vulnerability is ?

Windows has always been like this. Why on earth do you expect it to be any different

same goes for security also

5- Now if that doesn't sum up your post, I don't know what is. Anyone making this statement is 97% of the time an anti-Microsoft fanatic.

If i were pro microsoft i would be a fanatic ?

Given the fact that Dell is offering Ubuntu, XP, and Vista right now? There is no option? BS.

Dell arent the only computer retail outlet

I guess this explains why Microsoft took the opinions of over 100,000 users, and developed Vista. Largest ever input- and they tell their users what to do? Once more: BS.

100,000 and what percentage of the total users is that ?

Simple fact is that if someone doesnt share your views on software then you label them a bullshitter and fanatic - akin to al-qaeda , if your not willing to look at other peoples viewpoints and evidence then you shouldnt debate/discuss/argue - simple

 

[DOpamine]

This is why there is a perceived hatred of Vista. People spreading misinformation and unsubstantiated rumor.

How does Vista "spy" on users? If you're talking WGA, it DOES NOT collect any personal information. To my knowledge, there's never been any type identify theft or obtainment of personal information because of WGA. One literally could be at a greater chance of being spied on by making a phone call. Ever heard of the Patriot Act and FISA?

You say that UAC doesn't help make Vista more secure? You offer no proof. As far as Vista security flaws, there just haven't been as many for Vista in its first year as XP.

Now that drivers are pretty solid, using Vista has been fantastic for me on all five machines that I've installed it on. It's a great OS, sure it has it flaws, but they are over exaggerated by the anti-Microsoft crowed.

Vista FTW!!!

http://www.techdigest.tv/2006/07/is_windows_xp_s.html

and the fact that there have been security breaches already speaks volumes , when was the last ubuntu virus ?

 

[w1retap]

Oh snap, a master of one-liner comebacks. rofl. Seriously.

 

[TechieSooner]

Windows Genuine Advantage

You didn't answer my question at all. (Heck- I don't think you answered ANY of my questions). I said I wanted proof it was spying on you.
Microsoft posted the contents of a WGA report a while back. Nothing at all in it- just basic system info (that you would expect). Nobody has come up with anything contradicting this, so until you do- it is not a valid claim at all.

DRM

Ummmm... DRM isn't just a feature of Vista. Try again?

Do you know what a security model is ? do you know what a security vulnerability is ?

Do you? I'd like to see an example (like I asked).
IMO UAC stopping a virus from jacking up your OS files is a good thing- rather than just letting it (the case with XP).

Dell arent the only computer retail outlet

True- but it just blew away your whole argument that you are forced into Vista, since it is the only option with a new system. HP/Compaq still offers XP as well.
I'd say that covers a large hunk of manufacturers right there- and both are still giving you choices!

100,000 and what percentage of the total users is that ?

Does it matter? Show me another OS that had a larger study done.

http://www.techdigest.tv/2006/07/is_windows_xp_s.html

Written July 2006 for XP. Try again?


Everyone on here could give you a list of things they dislike about Vista.
But making ridiculous claims without A) fact and B) logic is simply ignorant.
I am highly interested to see your explanations of the above things... If you show me I am indeed wrong (which hasn't happened yet)- I'd willingly admit it.

 

[brom42]

DRM , yes i want to make a backup of a dvd , is this permitted ? shouldnt it be down to me to decide to backup or not ?

I am going to focus on this one thing. If you buy a DVD or CD in a store, just like Vista; you don't actually own it. You have a license to play it on the media you got it on. In the US it is illegal to copy a DVD since you are circumventing CSS.

Linux people never like to mention it, but most if not all open source media players are illegal in the US. To play a DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, MP3, MPEG or WMV/WMA, in the US; you have to use a player that pays the licensing fee to the copyright owner. Both w32codecs and libdvdcss2 are considered to be circumvention devices and are illegal under the DMCA.

Like it or not, Vista and OS X have DRM because it is basically a requirement to leagally play HD Video in the US.

 

[Archer75]

"DRM , yes i want to make a backup of a dvd , is this permitted ? shouldnt it be down to me to decide to backup or not ?"

This has absolutely nothing to do with vista or Microsoft. Take it up with the MPAA. However there are several programs you can use in Vista that break the copy protection and allow you to copy these. You can crack programs, games, DVD, HD-DVD and Blue Ray all day long in Vista. It doesn't stop you from doing any of that. Even in linux you have to download programs to do this as well, there are just better ones in windows.

You are buying into the FUD son.