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Why everybody bashed ATi?
- Thread starter Cannibal Corpse
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Steel Chicken said:
Amen, brother. I don't consider myself to be a fan of either nVidia or ATI, but what you say is true. Last generation, when nVidia "sucked" it was okay, but now when it's ATI's turn to suck it up, some people are whining. I say to everyone: Be a smart consumer, not a fan-boy.
I sort of predicted this when I said ATI may win the next round but nVidia (with all their resources) will hold nothing back.
WuTangClam said:
Your talking to a guy thats seen under its hood....
Take a close look at how the characters interact with its environment its very simliar to the orgianl Half life. Not talking about physics, just general feel of the game.
Half-Life's Code Basis
[Thu Aug 01, 2002 / 04:38pm PDT] Chris 'autolycus' Bokitch - comments (5)
What came first, the chicken or the egg? What is Half-Life built on, Quake 1 or Quake 2? These questions pop up pretty frequently, and neither seems to have an accepted answer. In an effort to extinguish the argument, I've asked the people who know best. About Half-Life, that is. We're not touching the question about the chicken.
Ken Birdwell explains it like this:
"It is fundamentally just a heavily modified Quake 1 engine. There are about 50 lines of code from the Quake 2 engine, mostly bugs fixes to hard problems that Carmack found and fixed before we ran into them."
At its core, it's a Quake 1 engine. You can tell this by comparing Half-life's map compiling tools with those shipped with Quake1. You'll find very minor differences -- none of them are fundamental. The core rendering is architecturally identical to Quake1, the only "significant" change is removing the fixed palette, making map lighting RGB instead of 8 bit, and converting software rendering to be 16 bit color instead of 8 bit color, which was pretty easy and only required minor code changes. Our skeletal animation system is new, though it was heavily influenced by the existing model rendering code, as were a lot of our updated particle effects, though less so with our beam system. Decals are totally new, our audio system has some major additions to what already existed, and at ship time our networking was almost totally Quake1 / QuakeWorld networking but about a year later Yahn rewrote most of all of it to be very different in design. The most highly changed sections are the game logic; ours being written in C++ and Quake's being in written interpreted "Quake C". Our AI system is very very different from anything in Quake, and there's a lot of other significant architectural changes in the whole server and client implementations, though if you look hard enough you can find a few remnants of some nearly unmodified Quake1 era entities buried in places.
Jay Stelly adds, "We also took PAS from QW and/or Q2 and a couple of other minor routines I can remember (no more than 100-200 lines of code there). There was some feature overlap (as Ken mentions) like game code DLLs and colored lighting, but we developed our own solutions to those independent of Q2."
So there it is. This should put some arguments to rest. Half-Life is based on Quake 1, although it has a very small amount of Quake 2 code. Yahn notes that "we did use some of the winsock functions from Q2, that's about it. Probably more than 50 lines, but nothing too interesting."
Its both....
mr.fishie said:
Believe me if that was the case he wouldn't have made Doom 3 as it is. Unless he really has gotten that lazy.
He also rewrote the Doom 3 engine in a matter of 2 months. Hell its not a fresh start. He rewote the Doom 3 engine line by line from the Q3, there was an article where he said that too, Had to do that anywyas to switch the Q3 engine to C++.
The Batman said:
Why do some play ignorance to the obvious extreme limited availability of the 6800U. Granted it's better than the X800 XT, but when I can almost counter the number of stores with it available now for a reasonable price on one hand, thats no big win for nVidia. The X800 XT also seems to have noticeably greater availability in new systems as well. I also see a lot more people with PE's than Ultras, but that could be because GT is a much better buy than the Ultra.
![[RIP]Zeus](/data/avatars/m/69/69225.jpg?1478204720){kind=avatar}
[RIP]Zeus
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i really kinda find this funny
in the FX series ya they sucked but it was like oh well. still a good card don't care if we suck compared to the 9000 series
now it's 6800 series kicking x800 all over the place and the ati nuts are crying, whinning, bitching and complaining about how nVidia cheats or wait till XTPE comes out or some shit like that.
it just amazes me how these ati people go so nuts cause there FAVORITE card is getting it's ass owned.
not only in proformence but in a price range to.
also ati IMHO has been lazy. and also IMHO i think ati doesn't really care about there fan's cause with no new tech and a 2-3 year old core. from what i see ati is saying to there fans and partners you will get new tech when ATI feels like you need it. not hey lets future proof our cards so game makers can work with the tech we offer like nVidia did with Doom3.
doom3 was not made around the 6800, the 6800 was made around doom3.
in the FX series ya they sucked but it was like oh well. still a good card don't care if we suck compared to the 9000 series
now it's 6800 series kicking x800 all over the place and the ati nuts are crying, whinning, bitching and complaining about how nVidia cheats or wait till XTPE comes out or some shit like that.
it just amazes me how these ati people go so nuts cause there FAVORITE card is getting it's ass owned.
not only in proformence but in a price range to.
also ati IMHO has been lazy. and also IMHO i think ati doesn't really care about there fan's cause with no new tech and a 2-3 year old core. from what i see ati is saying to there fans and partners you will get new tech when ATI feels like you need it. not hey lets future proof our cards so game makers can work with the tech we offer like nVidia did with Doom3.
doom3 was not made around the 6800, the 6800 was made around doom3.
[RIP]Zeus
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gordon151 said:
Then plz justify to me WHY i should buy a card for 400 to 500 dollars that has no future proof tech?
bad drivers
bad multimonitor
bad linux drivers
limited SUPPLY...
is almost vaporware
and has no call for the lower end 6800NU and LE
and also there x600 cards??? wtf where they thinking??? talk about a joke...
The Batman
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gordon151 said:
I suggest you head on over to NVnews and check out the 6800 Pre-Order thread. It's got about 30 links for the Ultra, most of which are in-stock at a reasonable price. In other words, you can find an Ultra for $500-$540 if you're not stupid.
As for you seeing more XTPEs than Ultras here at Hard...might I suggest you stop surfing the ATI sub-forum exclusively?
Like rancor mentioned I've already posted TWICE today with links to eVGA/BFG/Gigabyte Ultras in-stock ranging from $500-$550. You may have somehow managed to miss them but that doesn't excuse your ignorance. If you want them they are there. Since you obviously don't want one maybe just maybe there's a good possibilty that you're not as well-informed as people who are looking to upgrade to one.
There are more Ultras than XTPEs and at far more reasonable prices end of dicussion.
WuTangClam
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I don't see how that disproves what I originally posted. 50 lines of code from the Q2 engine does not make it a "rewritten Q2 engine" when the rest of the code is either valve's own or from the Q1 engine.rancor said:
That last paragraph pretty much proves my point. In fact, I was looking for this very article to link to in my original post.
[RIP]Zeus
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^eMpTy^ said:
LOL!!!!!!
[RIP]Zeus said:
I don't have to justify anything to you, but your comment that the x800 series gets run over buy the 6800 line is pure rubbish unless Doom3 is the only game you will ever play. Bad drivers is also another spat of rubbish on your part. I've also dealt with ATI multimonitor support and I found it quite nice, but apparently to you its "bad". Linux drivers I dont know since I don't use linux, but limited supply is another ridiculous statement unless you're explicitly talking about the x800 xt. The x800 pro, out of all the next generation cards, probably has the best availability of them all. I've also noticed a lot of people comparing the 6600 to the x600 series, but completely ignore the existence of the pcx line.
mr.fishie said:
yeah this I don't know about...Doom 3 has the same startup little window that Quake 3 did...and the intro video occurs in the same order and at the same resolution as the Quake 3 one did...the config file uses the same variables...if he rewrote the whole thing from scratch (which doesn't really make sense) he's got an amazing memory...
maybe he rewrote the renderer from scratch...
The Batman said:
Apparently between the time I just read your post and you posting this someone bought up all the Ultras because most of the links say out of stock, back order, or sold out. I have to admit though there are a handful that do say in stock, but some of them the prices are not between 500-540 like you said.
The Batman
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Hm...you know I haven't bothered playing HL on my new setup just yet. Hm...naw...it probabley still looks like ass.
I never did beat the expansions though. Oh well, time to call in sick.
I never did beat the expansions though. Oh well, time to call in sick.
The Batman said:Hm...you know I haven't bothered playing HL on my new setup just yet. Hm...naw...it's probabley still look like ass.
It does still look like ass. My plan, Valve willing, is to play HL1:Source and then HL2. That should be fun.
[RIP]Zeus
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gordon151 said:
At least nVidia is selling there top end card. i think there have been more ultra's sold than the xtpe
The Batman
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Like I said if you can't find Ultras right now that's not Nvidia fault, that's your parent's fault for having you.
http://www.pny.com/products/verto/geForce6/6800ultra.asp
$500
http://store.yahoo.com/buyxg/vc129101.html
$526
http://www.adosystems.net/evg6800.html
$545
http://store.yahoo.com/buyxg/vc129104.html
$549
https://magnum-pc.securewebsiteserver.net/product_info.php?&products_id=507
$550
Rick and Gordon you guys suck at the internet. The reason you guys can't find Ultras is because you don't want one and because you would rather that the Ultras be vaporware. Don't deny it, I'll tell you when I'm born yesterday.
http://www.pny.com/products/verto/geForce6/6800ultra.asp
$500
http://store.yahoo.com/buyxg/vc129101.html
$526
http://www.adosystems.net/evg6800.html
$545
http://store.yahoo.com/buyxg/vc129104.html
$549
https://magnum-pc.securewebsiteserver.net/product_info.php?&products_id=507
$550
Rick and Gordon you guys suck at the internet. The reason you guys can't find Ultras is because you don't want one and because you would rather that the Ultras be vaporware. Don't deny it, I'll tell you when I'm born yesterday.
^eMpTy^ said:
In defense of the use of the Quake 3 engine for Doom 3, Jim Dose, one of the leading programmers claimed that the engine will be stripped and rewritten string by string.
In reply to eager gamers, Jim Dose claims that there are new things to be expected of the engine, in the words of the man himself:
" The engine is being completely rewritten, just piece-by-piece. Currently, the renderer, shader system, and game code are completely new. The cgame and network code have been removed. The animation system is currently being written from the ground up. The sound system and UI are still in place, but will be rewritten by Graeme and Robert when they are finished with the mission pack. At some point along the way, John will probably write a new network system.
So, even though we are not starting out with a blank sheet of paper, the final result will be a full rewrite."
Its a complete rewrite using the q3 engne as a base. This is commen sense, if you have an engine you just don't drop it and write a new one. You can still use the old engine as a basis and rewrite it line by line. End result, still have the similiar restrictions as the previous engine but you will have the ability to add in new features, in this case shaders.
Spetsnaz Op
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Who cares why, ATi still owns
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