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Why everybody bashed ATi?

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Netrat33 said:
I see the same things. Both of those cards seem pretty neck and neck in the races.
Yes yes we know, Doom 3 it does better. But overall not much in other games.
Click to expand...

This is the entire point. If they are neck and neck in every game, but the GT plays Doom3 a lot better...and has a whole bunch of other features that might get used later...why would you buy a Pro?

Nobody is saying the Pro is a bad card...clearly it's not...but if someone asks what card is better, the answer is the GT...and that's why everyone says everyone else is bashing ATi...because right now there is no reason to recommend the Pro, and the XTPE (which I highly recommend) isn't available...blah...I'm repeating myself
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I can't imagine them eeking out much more speed than they currently are...they aren't moving to a new process right? Hell the thing is fast enough already, all they have to do is get it to market...
Click to expand...
R420 - TSMC 130nm (up to 525MHz)
R480 - TSMC 110nm (600MHz+)
 
^eMpTy^ said:
This is the entire point. If they are neck and neck in every game, but the GT plays Doom3 a lot better...and has a whole bunch of other features that might get used later...why would you buy a Pro?

Nobody is saying the Pro is a bad card...clearly it's not...but if someone asks what card is better, the answer is the GT...and that's why everyone says everyone else is bashing ATi...because right now there is no reason to recommend the Pro, and the XTPE (which I highly recommend) isn't available...blah...I'm repeating myself
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But I think what the original post isn't to what you're saying. What you're saying is valid. I agree: GT over the pro if you have a choice. But a lot of times you see people just saying how ATi sucks and the pro sucks and don't get the pro at all and the pro gets stomped Which isn't ENTIRELY true. But a lot of times you'll see it cross over to the XT which is really silly and saying how ATi is lame (vaporware blah blah blah) When both the XT and Ultras are hard to find.
 
I'd have the x800 XT PE if I could buy one for under 700 dollars, but nope. So now I have a 6800 Ultra, what can you do if you can't even buy it.
 
UltimaParadox said:
I'd have the x800 XT PE if I could buy one for under 700 dollars, but nope. So now I have a 6800 Ultra, what can you do if you can't even buy it.
Click to expand...

steal it from a factory perhaps?
 
Netrat33 said:
But I think what the original post isn't to what you're saying. What you're saying is valid. I agree: GT over the pro if you have a choice. But a lot of times you see people just saying how ATi sucks and the pro sucks and don't get the pro at all and the pro gets stomped Which isn't ENTIRELY true. But a lot of times you'll see it cross over to the XT which is really silly and saying how ATi is lame (vaporware blah blah blah) When both the XT and Ultras are hard to find.
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Well there are all the bandwagon noobs...which I can't say I agree with...that just start talking smack because they think they know what they're talking about...

But most of it is just people asking which is better and being told by everyone that the GT is the better card to get...then the ATi-loyals get pissed because everyone is recommending nV over ATi...but it's not bashing...it's the truth...and sometimes the truth hurts...

If you want to see bashing, goto the Inq and check out that article on the x800s...now THAT'S bashing...
 
coz said:
R420 - TSMC 130nm (up to 525MHz)
R480 - TSMC 110nm (600MHz+)
Click to expand...

I doubt it will be clocked much higher than the current high end card. The biggest part will be the 512MB of memory.
 
Why are we talking about Fall Refreshes in the first place? These cards just became available [well all of them except the XTPE], I think it's going to be more of a Spring Refresh. Everyone is probabely scrambling to get PCI-E parts out the door. Besides, Nvidia won't do a refresh if ATI doesn't, and ATI won't do a refresh if Nvidia doesn't.
 
and see the above posts are even what i'm talking about

I see ultras at that price too or not even in stock (just look at newegg right now)
 
Netrat33 said:
and see the above posts are even what i'm talking about

I see ultras at that price too or not even in stock (just look at newegg right now)
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There's a thread in the nvidia subforum of all the places the Ultra is available...there are like 10 places that have it in stock...
 
Netrat33 said:
and see the above posts are even what i'm talking about

I see ultras at that price too or not even in stock (just look at newegg right now)
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There are alot places that have ultras, even in retail stores just not on the internet. At least they were a few days ago.
 
gordon151 said:
I doubt it will be clocked much higher than the current high end card. The biggest part will be the 512MB of memory.
Click to expand...
If the move to a smaller feature size allows them to clock the GPU higher then you'd better believe they will. When the competition between NVIDIA and ATi is *this* close they will take every advantage they can get. ATi are clocking fairly close to their limits right now, so are NVIDIA, why would they not do the same when the frequency ceiling goes higher? With the move to 110nm, I think NVIDIA will be able to release a 500MHz flagship product and ATi's may be around 600MHz?
 
coz said:
If the move to a smaller feature size allows them to clock the GPU higher then you'd better believe they will. When the competition between NVIDIA and ATi is *this* close they will take every advantage they can get. ATi are clocking fairly close to their limits right now, so are NVIDIA, why would they not do the same when the frequency ceiling goes higher? With the move to 110nm, I think NVIDIA will be able to release a 500MHz flagship product and ATi's may be around 600MHz?
Click to expand...


ATI moves to .11 no low -k they might be able to clock higher but they will have the same power usage and heating problems as nV. So guess what thier clocks won't go to 600....

To use low k ATI has to move to .9 thats very risky since its not really a tested fab process for graphics cards yet.
 
just look at how well ATI did with .15 taking it up past 400MHz, when everone thought it was going to be impossible

and now look what they've done with .13 low k and many more transistors, taking it to 520MHz, and possibly higher

i'm guessing they'll take .11 beyond 600MHz

ATI is very good about making the most out of the processing technology, heat, power, they handle these things well
 
Brent_Justice said:
just look at how well ATI did with .15 taking it up past 400MHz, when everone thought it was going to be impossible

and now look what they've done with .13 low k, taking it to 520MHz, and possibly higher

i'm guessing they'll take .11 beyond 600MHz

ATI is very good about making the most out of the processing technology, heat, power, they handle these things well
Click to expand...

The only reason they took it that high with the x800 was because of low k, it reduces heat and power consuption around 30% thats a good deal of savings.

Over all a 500mhz chip without low k can now be clocked at 666 mhz with the same temps and power usage with low k.

I'm hearing rumors that the next gen chip from ATi is going to .9 microns, not at the refresh but next years r520.

opps should have something other then 500 to start that off lol
 
Brent_Justice said:
and now look what they've done with .13 low k, taking it to 520MHz, and possibly higher
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Yes, take a good look at the Phantom Edition. They're having yeilds issues, most cores aren't reaching 520 [unless of course someone would like to argue that whole 'ram shortage except we've got Ultras and Pro ViVOs' thing], that's readily evident from the amount of Pro ViVos NOT reaching XTPE speeds without some kind of tampering [be it software or hardware, simply unlocking those extra 4 pipes isn't enough to hit XTPE speeds]. That's why they're Pro ViVos after all.

I just wanted to point out that "ATI is doing good, just look at their XTPEs" is a pretty horrible argument.
 
What's the deal with the R480 anyway? nVidia is doing mostly a core shrink, but aren't there supposed to be rumors of a totally new core coming out (not based on the 9xxx series like the R420 is?). Is that the R500 I remember seeing mentioned? Whatever I saw it's supposed to have support for everything they're missing now, no 2.0b, instead it'll have 3.0 etc etc.


Don't know. Not buying anything anyway. :)
 
Its a pendulum thing. Same thing with Intel vs AMD.

At any given point in time, one mfg will provide a better product then the other. Not too long ago, Nvidia was sucking booty. Now ATI is. Nevermind their cards are more money for the same performance. Nevermind you can't buy the high end ATI parts. Nevermind theyve missed lots of dates. Never mind they are in bed so deep with Valve they look like Siamese twins.

Right now, the best purchase/per dollar is Nvidia hands down...Maybe in 2 years it will be reverse. Then ill sell my ancient shitty 6800 for the newest ATI offering to run the newly released Duke Nukem Forever. Sorry, what was I thinking?!? That will never happen.

I just sold my 9800 pro...it wasnot a bad card. I dont hate ATI by any means. Right now though, they are in second, and not a close second either.
 
I would just like to say to the people with 20/20 hindsight who flame x800 pro owners..

I bought my pro when the 6800GT was only white paper, so please dont assume both were available when someone made their purchase.

sometimes early adoption has its drawbacks. All told if I was just coming into the market now I would prob get the GT, but I dont feel screwed or anything.......Its faster in some areas.. and not so fast in others......very slim tossup to the GT imo... say...52.5vs 47.5.....
 
theelviscerator said:
I would just like to say to the people with 20/20 hindsight who flame x800 pro owners..
Click to expand...
No one is flaming X800 owners, thats delusional.
 
Two words: 'Paper Launch'

I'm sure all 500 people that got a XTPE are enjoying them, though. I would have gotten one too but after 2 months of waiting I got tired and bought my first nVidia card in 2 or 3 years.

*shrug*
 
Agree, but we are just sitting and waiting, there are no real "release dates" for SLI and PCI-Ex, seeing nice pictures on web sites is not the same when you see a PCI-Ex + SLI nVidia based card on a shelf of a local computer shop. Anyway who knows what will happen this Autumn. Besides all that fan stuff is nothing, it is not the same as if you were choosing between BMW or Audi, you're not "using" your hardware with your hads, it just stands there in you pc case, however giving you the power to play DOOM3 on max. settings =)
 
I've got an XT PE. R420 isn't vaporware to me. So.......since in the benches the XT PE is neck in neck with 6800u/ue and many times faster, I'll just sit back and watch while you all whine about not having one and saying ATi sucks this and that cuz you didn't get yours yet. Maybe you shoulda been smart and preordred it like I did.
 
CrimandEvil said:
I hear these guys have some BFG, give them a call.
http://www.chumbo.com/info.asp?s=855650000500
Click to expand...


That's the GT! I keep seeing the GT everytime someone points out the ultra...it's not an ultra! GTs are abundant yes as with Pros. The ULTRA and the XTs are not

I've looked on Bestbuy, compusa (instore and online), new egg, zipzoomfly, chumbo now
None have it in stock! AND they are just as hiked up in price as XTs when available!
 
Netrat33 said:
That's the GT! I keep seeing the GT everytime someone points out the ultra...it's not an ultra! GTs are abundant yes as with Pros. The ULTRA and the XTs are not

I've looked on Bestbuy, compusa (instore and online), new egg, zipzoomfly, chumbo now
None have it in stock! AND they are just as hiked up in price as XTs when available!
Click to expand...


Chumbo had some, and they weren't listed as in stock. All you had to do is call and see, and they will tell you the next time they are getting some which has been usually at least once a week.
 
GregP24 said:
I've got an XT PE. R420 isn't vaporware to me. So.......since in the benches the XT PE is neck in neck with 6800u/ue and many times faster, I'll just sit back and watch while you all whine about not having one and saying ATi sucks this and that cuz you didn't get yours yet. Maybe you shoulda been smart and preordred it like I did.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: , lots of people Preordered and have yet to still recieve one. So I would hold your words.
 
Netrat33 said:
That's the GT! I keep seeing the GT everytime someone points out the ultra...it's not an ultra! GTs are abundant yes as with Pros. The ULTRA and the XTs are not
Click to expand...
I said give them a call and ask, I didn't say buy the fucking GT. Good grief. :rolleyes:
 
Netrat33 said:
That's the GT! I keep seeing the GT everytime someone points out the ultra...it's not an ultra! GTs are abundant yes as with Pros. The ULTRA and the XTs are not

I've looked on Bestbuy, compusa (instore and online), new egg, zipzoomfly, chumbo now
None have it in stock! AND they are just as hiked up in price as XTs when available!
Click to expand...


god don't get so excited :eek:

http://www.xpcgear.com/nvidiavideo.html

in stock all verities :)


http://google4-cnet.com.com/XFX_GeF...html?part=google4-cnet&subj=30957975&tag=feed
 
GregP24 said:
I've got an XT PE. R420 isn't vaporware to me. So.......since in the benches the XT PE is neck in neck with 6800u/ue and many times faster, I'll just sit back and watch while you all whine about not having one and saying ATi sucks this and that cuz you didn't get yours yet. Maybe you shoulda been smart and preordred it like I did.
Click to expand...

alot of these people DID preorder, waited for months and months, never got it, got tierd and got something just as good, if not better in some areas? and you realize that to the world out side of you and the few others that got an xtpe, it IS vaporware? do you expect us to be proud of you just because you have one?

edit: sorry, i just REALLY hate comments like this... :mad:
 
lithium726 said:
alot of these people DID preorder, waited for months and months, never got it, got tierd and got something just as good, if not better in some areas? and you realize that to the world out side of you and the few others that got an xtpe, it IS vaporware? do you expect us to be proud of you just because you have one?

edit: sorry, i just REALLY hate comments like this... :mad:
Click to expand...

Heh, don't sweat it bro, take comfort in the fact a GT could smoke his XTPE in D3. ;)
 
Me I wonder the same thing? Why are people even comparing the X800 to the FX series? Some even compairing it to the NV30?

Why bash a video card that is faster at the majority of the games?

I am not talking about the all frustrated voices about low availability it was the same with the 6800 series when they wheren´t available and the X800 PRO was that´s understandable but to bash ATI for their hardware that is outperforming any opponent even with a not so significant margin?

The ones bashing ATI for low availability on X800XT PE is fully understandable. Though 6800 isn´t available in any big numbers also but they are available to some extent at least.
 
The Batman said:
Heh, don't sweat it bro, take comfort in the fact a GT could smoke his XTPE in D3. ;)
Click to expand...
That doesn't matter as much until D3 based games start to ship.....then the fun begins. :D (BTW we need one of those niffty Devil grins)
 
lithium726 said:
alot of these people DID preorder, waited for months and months, never got it, got tierd and got something just as good, if not better in some areas? and you realize that to the world out side of you and the few others that got an xtpe, it IS vaporware? do you expect us to be proud of you just because you have one?

edit: sorry, i just REALLY hate comments like this... :mad:
Click to expand...

You hate comments like mine? Why? Because I happen to be one of the lucky few to own one of the fastest vid cards on earth? You a little jealous that my rig stands miles above yours in the performance arena? Does it make you cry at night when you think about how those of us with the XT PE easily outperform your 6800 GT?
Waaaah. Cry me a river. I preordered mine on MAY 15th. MAYBE that's why I got mine June 21st. If you didn't get yours then toooooooo bad. IS it vaporware to you? Obviously, but I don't really care. My card is faster than the 6800 GT. If you can pull 13,748 3dmarks from a GT with a mild OC, I would be very very surprised. Oh, you can't? Well, sucks to be you then. Maybe you shoulda bought the 6800 Ultra, oh wait, those are hard to find to. Just like the XT PE, but I don't see people crying about them being vaporware.
 
GregP24 said:
You hate comments like mine? Why? Because I happen to be one of the lucky few to own one of the fastest vid cards on earth? You a little jealous that my rig stands miles above yours in the performance arena? Does it make you cry at night when you think about how those of us with the XT PE easily outperform your 6800 GT?
Waaaah. Cry me a river. I preordered mine on MAY 15th. MAYBE that's why I got mine June 21st. If you didn't get yours then toooooooo bad. IS it vaporware to you? Obviously, but I don't really care. My card is faster than the 6800 GT. If you can pull 13,748 3dmarks from a GT with a mild OC, I would be very very surprised. Oh, you can't? Well, sucks to be you then. Maybe you shoulda bought the 6800 Ultra, oh wait, those are hard to find to. Just like the XT PE, but I don't see people crying about them being vaporware.
Click to expand...


if only 1000 people got the card out of 50,000 that ordered, its vaporware. Who cares if you have it, noone else does..... your comments are well noted but there are alot of other people out there that are pissed at ATi. Noone is anger or jelous of you.
 
GregP24 said:
You hate comments like mine? Why? Because I happen to be one of the lucky few to own one of the fastest vid cards on earth? You a little jealous that my rig stands miles above yours in the performance arena? Does it make you cry at night when you think about how those of us with the XT PE easily outperform your 6800 GT?
Waaaah. Cry me a river. I preordered mine on MAY 15th. MAYBE that's why I got mine June 21st. If you didn't get yours then toooooooo bad. IS it vaporware to you? Obviously, but I don't really care. My card is faster than the 6800 GT. If you can pull 13,748 3dmarks from a GT with a mild OC, I would be very very surprised. Oh, you can't? Well, sucks to be you then. Maybe you shoulda bought the 6800 Ultra, oh wait, those are hard to find to. Just like the XT PE, but I don't see people crying about them being vaporware.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

[sarcasm]
omg im sooooo jealous of greg's uber rig!
im so jealous of gregs video card, i mean, i wish i could run all my games at max settings
wow, why dont you tell us some more about your 3d marks? i love watching video rendering without being able to play too!
[\sarcasm]

as stated prevoiusly in this thread, the ultra is alot easier to come by than the xtpe, and my gt performs wonderfully for my needs. the reason i dont like your comment is because you sound like a 12 year old

" haha my thing is better than yours! na na na na na!"
 
rancor said:
if only 1000 people got the card out of 50,000 that ordered, its vaporware. Who cares if you have it, noone else does..... your comments are well noted but there are alot of other people out there that are pissed at ATi. Noone is anger or jelous of you.
Click to expand...

Do you seriously think there have been only 1,000 X800 XT's sold?
 
OK this all goes for the 4th page on this thread :) too many to respond to

1st: A lot of those sites with ultras still have preorder next to it some have in stock
2: most people aren't going to go that far to search for a RETAIL card. I don't like to pay outright for a card. like to finance it.
3: They are still priced over a "retail" version 535-570 is more than 500 plus shipping
True not more than 600 a la ultra, but not too far off either
4: Much like the comments on page 4 meaning people bashing ATi for a silly reasons
5: XT doesn't smoke the ultra. they are buddy pals in numbers until doom3 and even there it's not really "smoked" or bad
6: Doom engine isnt' the only engine out there and until I see some good physics in the Doom3 engine who cares if it just looks pretty. Need a something to show a unique game with the engine (and not just a forward...doom 2 prettier game)
7: I think i had another thing but I forgot already :)
 
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